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2019 - 2020 Houston Rockets Thread of Heroes Taking Shots

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UDontKnow

UDontKnow 10450

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2 hours ago, d2o said:

They can change all of those things but if none of those people have the nuts to get Harden to change, the "culture" isnt changing.

This is true and one of the reasons that Harden enjoyed having coaches like D'Antoni and McHale is because they were considered "players coaches." Morey fucked up in hiring D'Antoni over JVG back in 2016. One of the reasons I wanted JVG is because he isn't a players coach. I still remember that 2005 playoff series against the Mavs were the Rockets got jobbed (thanks David Stern!) where JVG had T-Mac playing lights out on both sides of the court. A coach holding the star player accountable is essential to contend for titles. Hell, there were times Phil Jackson kicked Jordan out of practices. I am rooting for Silas to be successful and I hope he has a little bit of a mean streak in him when he's coaching.

1 hour ago, Tylerocks said:

Let me first say I love PJ for his heart, toughness and his fit in Houston.  I'll always root for former horns.

He probably deserves a raise for being a 6'5" power forward and taking a beating every night while able to knock down corner 3's.

That being said...he's 35 years old making $7-8M/ year.  I think if you put him on another team, he doesn't have near the impact he has had in Houston.

 

 

This is also true. At this point in his career, I don't think PJ starts for many teams outside of the Rockets. There is no question that he's been the most consistent player on the Rockets since he's been on the team. He definitely paid his dues and his success story gives us Rockets fans all the feels, but someone needs to tell him the reality. That or tell him to spend less on sneakers since he likely won't be getting a big contract anytime soon. 

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Funny how late stage capitalism has morons itt defending an authoritarian communist regime because "muh profits"

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He presumably doesn't have a problem with money at all. It sounds like you don't know what the fuck this entire situation is about, considering you think it's "hypocritical" for morey to operate under

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Murfdogg21

Murfdogg21 4431

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The NBA is funny in how they often overvalue perceived stars in hopes they will be better with a change of scenery or maintain their production/numbers when paired with another star. I thought the Rockets gave up too much draft capital in the RW-CP3 swap, but you can’t blame them for taking a big swing during the prime of Harden’s career. Considering RW’s mega salary combined with no outside shot and he’s rolling on meniscus-less knees, I’d question how much trade value he has. Yet I will not be surprised if some team (looking at you Knicks) throws a good player and several first round picks at Houston for him. Good riddance. 

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Pasken

Pasken 1309

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3 hours ago, UDontKnow said:

This is true and one of the reasons that Harden enjoyed having coaches like D'Antoni and McHale is because they were considered "players coaches." Morey fucked up in hiring D'Antoni over JVG back in 2016. One of the reasons I wanted JVG is because he isn't a players coach. I still remember that 2005 playoff series against the Mavs were the Rockets got jobbed (thanks David Stern!) where JVG had T-Mac playing lights out on both sides of the court.

Oh when we lost game 7 by 40 points in the first round. Great callback.  I like coaches that win playoff serieseseses.

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UDontKnow

UDontKnow 10450

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Just now, Pasken said:

Oh when we lost game 7 by 40 points in the first round. I like coaches that win playoff serieseseses. Great callback.

Dude you're just cherry picking facts and being a contrarian for the sake of it. Anyone watching that game saw how one-sided the refereeing was in that series starting with Game 3. Your post is lazy.

You like coaches that win playoff series? That's cute. You think McHale or D'Antoni would have done better than JVG with those same injury riddled rosters that lacked benches?  Which NBA team is McHale or D'Antoni the head coach of now? Also, what's your response to the recent reports that had Morey stayed, JVG was his choice or the reports that Harden and Westbrook did not support a JVG hire because they wanted Lue or Rivers (more players coaches)? I wanted JVG because he wouldn't neglect defense (you know the thing that wins championships), he wouldn't tolerate lazy play from star players, and his offensive philosophies have evolved evidenced by his success coaching Team USA composed exclusively of non-NBA players.   

My post was in response to d2o's post regarding Harden needing to change (d2o is absolutely correct). The point of my post was that the somebody who has to hold Harden accountable is expected to be the head coach and that hasn't happened to date. I hope Silas is the man to do it because the Rockets won't contend otherwise.

You could even make the argument that Morey enabled Harden (more efficient scorer than Jordan!) and also failed by only hiring coaches that would conform to analytics and analytics only. 

 

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Pasken

Pasken 1309

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58 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

Dude you're just cherry picking facts and being a contrarian for the sake of it. Anyone watching that game saw how one-sided the refereeing was in that series starting with Game 3. Your post is lazy.

You like coaches that win playoff series? That's cute. You think McHale or D'Antoni would have done better than JVG with those same injury riddled rosters that lacked benches?  Which NBA team is McHale or D'Antoni the head coach of now? Also, what's your response to the recent reports that had Morey stayed, JVG was his choice or the reports that Harden and Westbrook did not support a JVG hire because they wanted Lue or Rivers (more players coaches)? I wanted JVG because he wouldn't neglect defense (you know the thing that wins championships), he wouldn't tolerate lazy play from star players, and his offensive philosophies have evolved evidenced by his success coaching Team USA composed exclusively of non-NBA players.   

My post was in response to d2o's post regarding Harden needing to change (d2o is absolutely correct). The point of my post was that the somebody who has to hold Harden accountable is expected to be the head coach and that hasn't happened to date. I hope Silas is the man to do it because the Rockets won't contend otherwise.

You could even make the argument that Morey enabled Harden (more efficient scorer than Jordan!) and also failed by only hiring coaches that would conform to analytics and analytics only. 

 

Cherry-picking? You are the one who brought up 2005 and missed the key result: We lost in the 1st round after going up 2-0 on the road and we lost game 7 by 40 points. Just like we lost in the 1st round in 3 of the 4 years we had JVG and he missed the playoffs in that 4th one. Yea, real nostalgic for that area of 78 points scored and 1st round exits.

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UDontKnow

UDontKnow 10450

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3 minutes ago, Pasken said:

Cherry-picking? You are the one who brought up 2005 and missed the key result: We lost in the 1st round after going up 2-0 on the road and we lost game 7 by 40 points. Just like we lost in the 1st round in 3 of the 4 years we had JVG and he missed the playoffs in that 4th one. Yea, real nostalgic for that area of 78 points scored and 1st round exits.

And once again, lazy analysis on your part (did you forget that Tim Donaghy specifically mentioned this series in his testimony?). Go back and study how JVG has evolved. Also see what our current problems are with our supposedly alpha superstar. I reiterate I'm behind Silas because I am a Rockets fan, but my concerns with Silas lay with his emphasis on defense and whether or not he lets Harden get away with more sluggish playoff performances. Harden couldn't coexist with Dwight, CP3, and now Westbrook. At what point does Harden take the responsibility for his role in the Rockets shortcomings? I would argue that Harden was more interested in playing GM (namely getting CP3 run off) rather than focusing on improving his game in the playoffs (never moving without the ball, careless turnovers, and always looking upset with a teammate with when he fails in his defensive assignment).

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Pasken

Pasken 1309

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9 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

And once again, lazy analysis on your part (did you forget that Tim Donaghy specifically mentioned this series in his testimony?). Go back and study how JVG has evolved. Also see what our current problems are with our supposedly alpha superstar. I reiterate I'm behind Silas because I am a Rockets fan, but my concerns with Silas lay with his emphasis on defense and whether or not he lets Harden get away with more sluggish playoff performances. Harden couldn't coexist with Dwight, CP3, and now Westbrook. At what point does Harden take the responsibility for his role in the Rockets shortcomings? I would argue that Harden was more interested in playing GM (namely getting CP3 run off) rather than focusing on improving his game in the playoffs (never moving without the ball, careless turnovers, and always looking upset with a teammate with when he fails in his defensive assignment).

Donaghy didn't say that he fixed the series or helped the rockets lose by 40 points. He said what we all knew that Cuban complained about Moving screens from Yao and the refs made it a point to strictly enforce the rule. 

"Go back and study how JVG has evolved"

get the fuck outta here. What are you talking about? He hasn't coached since we fired him? You can't evolve as a coach if you aren't coaching. 

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UDontKnow

UDontKnow 10450

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1 minute ago, Pasken said:

Donaghy didn't say that he fixed the series or helped the rockets lose by 40 points. He said what we all knew that Cuban complained about Moving screens from Yao and the refs made it a point to strictly enforce the rule. 

"Go back and study how JVG has evolved"

get the fuck outta here. What are you talking about? He hasn't coached since we fired him? You can't evolve as a coach if you aren't coaching. 

He coached Team USA, you ignoramus. Got them qualified for the last World Cup and then was not selected to coach that squad at the World Cup. Maybe you should get the fuck outta here.

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Pasken

Pasken 1309

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2 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

He coached Team USA, you ignoramus. Got them qualified for the last World Cup and then was not selected to coach that squad at the World Cup. Maybe you should get the fuck outta here.

How many games has he coached for USA basketball 12? How much evolution is there with a coach who works 12 games in 14 years? 

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Dutchrudder

Dutchrudder 11154

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59 minutes ago, Drew said:

Why would they give up that much for Westbrook?

Yes Houston will get something for him.  But let's not get crazy.

Are you familiar with Charlotte's management?  They will be happy to get anyone to come play there for more than a year or two. Westbrook would be a huge get for them, and he helps sell tickets more so than anyone currently on their roster. He can go for Triple Doubles every day, and they can hype up his stats to garner some interest. It's probably the best fit for Westbrook, Eastern Conference, no expectations, weak media who will love him, and fans that are starved for anything entertaining. 

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14786

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3 hours ago, Drew said:

Why would they give up that much for Westbrook?

Yes Houston will get something for him.  But let's not get crazy.

What they are giving up? Rozier is a good player, Biyombo sucks in their system, and who knows about the draft, but likely drafting out of the Top 3-5 is a crap shoot most years.

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LebongJames

LebongJames 1815

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I think fans underestimating what Westbrook can bring back in a trade. The top teams may not want his style but he is a superstar and would be great for a lot of teams that can’t attract these guys in FA. New Orleans with him and Zion and Ingram would be fun. Charlotte could definitely use guy like Russ same with a lot mid tier teams. He actually played really well this season until he got hurt.

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d2o

d2o 1602

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3 hours ago, LebongJames said:

I think fans underestimating what Westbrook can bring back in a trade. The top teams may not want his style but he is a superstar and would be great for a lot of teams that can’t attract these guys in FA. New Orleans with him and Zion and Ingram would be fun. Charlotte could definitely use guy like Russ same with a lot mid tier teams. He actually played really well this season until he got hurt.

yeah, I think many dont like Russ or his style of play and assume that he has no value.     There are many teams that would love to have him and would give up assets to get him.    It won't be a massive haul but they should be able to get some decent package for him.   They more than likely will have to take back something they dont want but they will get at least one good piece in the package.

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UDontKnow

UDontKnow 10450

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16 minutes ago, d2o said:

yeah, I think many dont like Russ or his style of play and assume that he has no value.     There are many teams that would love to have him and would give up assets to get him.    It won't be a massive haul but they should be able to get some decent package for him.   They more than likely will have to take back something they dont want but they will get at least one good piece in the package.

Additionally, Russ is aging and there are probably concerns about how his knees will hold up given his style of play. Regarding how Russ plays, are there teams that are willing to center their offensive strategies around him? If Russ is dealt, I see teams like the Hornets and Knicks who would likely want a marquee player to help boost their revenue as suitors.

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d2o

d2o 1602

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4 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

Additionally, Russ is aging and there are probably concerns about how his knees will hold up given his style of play. Regarding how Russ plays, are there teams that are willing to center their offensive strategies around him? If Russ is dealt, I see teams like the Hornets and Knicks who would likely want a marquee player to help boost their revenue as suitors.

Yep, put the Magic in that group too.    Now will he want to play for any of those teams would be a question.

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d2o

d2o 1602

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11 minutes ago, LebongJames said:

There is nothing from the Knicks roster that would interest me if I’m the Rox front office.

Agreed, other than a pick or two but like I said, they will have to take back something back that they dont necessarily want

28 minutes ago, Harrison Stafford said:

Westbrook would go play for the Knicks in a New York minute.

I don't know about that.   Not sure he would want to be a part of a shitty org AND losing a lot

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d2o

d2o 1602

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9 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Westbrook’s contract doesn’t include a no-trade clause. Fuck him. Send his ass to Cleveland. 

That works in form but teams know that his "injuries" may flare up if he is sent to a team for which he doesnt want to play so they may not be so interested in getting into that kind of headache.    CLE also already has two PGs they drafted over the last couple yrs so I doubt they would be in anyway.

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TonyTexas

TonyTexas 10534

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1 hour ago, d2o said:

That works in form but teams know that his "injuries" may flare up if he is sent to a team for which he doesnt want to play so they may not be so interested in getting into that kind of headache.    CLE also already has two PGs they drafted over the last couple yrs so I doubt they would be in anyway.

Oh I realize all that. My point is that Westbrook doesn’t have the ultimate say on where he goes. There might not be a lot of choices. 

 

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UDontKnow

UDontKnow 10450

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3 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

Westbrook’s contract doesn’t include a no-trade clause. Fuck him. Send his ass to Cleveland. 

If the Rockets can get Drummond and Sexton in return (maybe a pick or two), that would be great. Silas said he would like the option of playing a traditional big.

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d2o

d2o 1602

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10 hours ago, Pimphand said:

I think it is time to admit the problem is Harden.

Dwight Howard was the problem

Chris Paul was the problem

Westbrook was the problem

When all your teammates are the problem the odds everyone is the problem is low and it is highly likely you are the problem

Bingo

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TonyTexas

TonyTexas 10534

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10 hours ago, Pimphand said:

I think it is time to admit the problem is Harden.

Dwight Howard was the problem

Chris Paul was the problem

Westbrook was the problem

When all your teammates are the problem the odds everyone is the problem is low and it is highly likely you are the problem

If you meet an asshole in the morning, you met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day, you’re the asshole. 

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d2o

d2o 1602

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6 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

If some variation of this is being discussed even passively, then everyone in the Clippers' locker room must fucking hate Paul George.

Which is very believable.

While I dont doubt that they dont like PG I dont quite understand why guys like Lemon Pepper Lou, Trez and Pat Bev get so much say in anything.   They seem to always be the ones that are brought up having issue with guys (including Kawhi).   Fuck all of those guys.   They were as much the issue with their collapse as PG.

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UDontKnow

UDontKnow 10450

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Also not sure why the Clippers would do that. My concern would be Paul George's health. He was terribad in the playoffs and not sure if that was a one off or his shoulders aren't right. 

Pat Beverley and Russell Westbrook on the same squad? Now that will be interesting. Wouldn't mind a trade with the Clips that would bring back Beverley and Harrell. Beverley has improved his 3 point shooting and Harrell has become a beast.

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3933

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5 hours ago, aggie08 said:

If some variation of this is being discussed even passively, then everyone in the Clippers' locker room must fucking hate Paul George.

Which is very believable.

It's actually Russ, Covington, a 2022 1st for George.  And PG's difficulty in the bubble has probably soured some teammates.  

 

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d2o

d2o 1602

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11 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

So that would be Kyrie, Harden, and Durant all on the same team? Unless the Nets can get the type of buy-in like the Warriors have, I don't see that experiment working.

Worth watching to see how many more times Harden's name pops up in trade rumors. 

I think it would be an absolute train wreck.  They should do it.

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