NSIAP: Amazon HQ2, more jobs and traffic jams

[and 73]

2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

This whole clever charade by Amazon is gonna backfire. They just used a whole bunch of cities and states, got their data and then pissed them off because the end result was now revealed to be inevitable. It was always just what DC and New York area sucker was gonna offer them to buttfuck them the most. 1.5 billion? Spin that one. 

Not a good long term strategy by Bezos. In fact they really fucked this up. Regulations coming. 

Oh well. 

Regulate them on the basis of what? They aren't a monopoly and even if they were it would have to be detrimental to the consumer which they aren't. In fact, they're exactly the opposite. 

No judge will sign off on doing anything after looking at the facts.

[JimmyJames 12271]

Just now, and said:

Regulate them on the basis of what? They aren't a monopoly and even if they were it would have to be detrimental to the consumer which they aren't. In fact, they're exactly the opposite. 

No judge will sign off on doing anything after looking at the facts.

Monopoly. You ever heard of that? Ask ma bell. Railroads. Microsoft, etc. 

and spare me your legal arguments. I’m talking about political reality here. Amazon fucked up here. Sticking their butt in DC isn’t gonna change that.,

[and 73]

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

Monopoly. You ever heard of that? Ask ma bell. Railroads. Microsoft, etc. 

and spare me your legal arguments. I’m talking about political reality here. Amazon fucked up here. Sticking their butt in DC isn’t gonna change that.,

Where are they a monopoly? 

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 minutes ago, and said:

Where are they a monopoly? 

In the US. 

And like I told you in my previous post, I’m not talking about a legal definition. I’m talking about political reality.

Can you understand the difference? Was AT&T a monopoly? 

[Surly Bevo 24966]

They are going to get regulated because they got cities to throw themselves at them like cheap dime store hookers?  Shit man the IOC and FIFA better watch their cornholes....

[and 73]

Just now, JimmyJames said:

In the US. 

And like I told you in my previous post, I’m not talking about a legal definition. I’m talking about political reality.

Can you understand the difference? Was AT&T a monopoly? 

No, they aren't a monopoly in the US by any stretch. If you think so, show me how and show me in what business segment. You won't be able to because you're wrong.

If all your argument is they'll get dinged because some politicians are mad so watchout Amazon then that's a prediction not an argument. 

AT&T was infact a monopoly which is why it got broken up. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 minutes ago, and said:

No, they aren't a monopoly in the US by any stretch. If you think so, show me how and show me in what business segment. You won't be able to because you're wrong.

If all your argument is they'll get dinged because some politicians are mad so watchout Amazon then that's a prediction not an argument. 

AT&T was infact a monopoly which is why it got broken up. 

My prediction is they will get dinged by politicians for this political stunt in order to extract money from Long Island (1.5 billion) and northern Virginia (only 750 million) and that is not just a prediction but also an argument. And the basis is that people will recognize it as such. A political stunt to extract money they don’t need.

 Apparently you disagree and think this was a wise move by them. Care to articulate why?

As for the monopoly aspect, no they are not technically legally one. As if that really matters to politicians. 

[and 73]

2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

My prediction is they will get dinged by politicians for this political stunt in order to extract money from Long Island (1.5 billion) and northern Virginia (only 750 million) and that is not just a prediction but also an argument. And the basis is that people will recognize it as such. A political stunt to extract money they don’t need.

 Apparently you disagree and think this was a wise move by them. Care to articulate why?

As for the monopoly aspect, no they are not technically legally one. As if that really matters to politicians. 

Since we're just making predictions, I doubt they'll get dinged by politicians here. We and by default our politicians have short memories. If they feel like a regulation is coming their way, they'll just use some of the 2 billion they received to buy those politicians off and hence a wise move. These politicians can be bought for pennies on thousands of dollars.

But let it be noted that I hate cities offering corporate welfare to these companies, we should all band together and ask them to fuck off. They have no choice but to invest somewhere in the US. 

[Trey3216 15346]

They’re not technically a monopoly, but they’ll be getting looked at on other items.   In the past few years, they’ve gone from offering some decent items at breakeven prices to offering the cheapest of cheapass knockoff shit as their main focus for Prime sales.   It’s almost laughable the shit that they put out there now.  Most of that shit comes from China, who we happen to be in a tribal trade war with at the moment.  That’s not shit to get them broken up as a monopoly, but currently, it’s shit that they need to be cognizant of regarding marketing/trade practices if strictly for marketability/profitability’s sake.  Eventually the US consumer is gonna recognize the shit product and revert to other means even if it may cost a tick more.  

[Updawg 2267]

They’re not technically a monopoly, but they’ll be getting looked at on other items.   In the past few years, they’ve gone from offering some decent items at breakeven prices to offering the cheapest of cheapass knockoff shit as their main focus for Prime sales.   It’s almost laughable the shit that they put out there now.  Most of that shit comes from China, who we happen to be in a tribal trade war with at the moment.  That’s not shit to get them broken up as a monopoly, but currently, it’s shit that they need to be cognizant of regarding marketing/trade practices if strictly for marketability/profitability’s sake.  Eventually the US consumer is gonna recognize the shit product and revert to other means even if it may cost a tick more.  

Agree. I have pretty much stopped buying shit from them. I'd almost rather go to Walmart. Well not really, but I buy local instead

The convenience factor isn't that big of a deal.

[tokamak 6431]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

This whole clever charade by Amazon is gonna backfire. They just used a whole bunch of cities and states, got their data and then pissed them off because the end result was now revealed to be inevitable. It was always just what DC and New York area sucker was gonna offer them to buttfuck them the most. 1.5 billion? Spin that one. 

Not a good long term strategy by Bezos. In fact they really fucked this up. Regulations coming. 

Oh well. 

I disagree. Someone else already said it, but people have short memories. Like, nonexistent. If Amazon announced tomorrow that they want to build HQ4 (or 5, I've lost count), every city in the country would line up and bend over exactly the same as they just did.

22 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

They’re not technically a monopoly, but they’ll be getting looked at on other items.   In the past few years, they’ve gone from offering some decent items at breakeven prices to offering the cheapest of cheapass knockoff shit as their main focus for Prime sales.   It’s almost laughable the shit that they put out there now.  Most of that shit comes from China, who we happen to be in a tribal trade war with at the moment.  That’s not shit to get them broken up as a monopoly, but currently, it’s shit that they need to be cognizant of regarding marketing/trade practices if strictly for marketability/profitability’s sake.  Eventually the US consumer is gonna recognize the shit product and revert to other means even if it may cost a tick more.  

We should probably have an Amazon meta thread, but I largely agree. As a consumer, the luster is starting to wear off of Amazon as a place to actually buy goods. Still, the convenience factor remains very high, the competitors are relatively small and disorganized, and they have millions of people (like me) semi-locked in to the Prime ecosystem. I think at the end of the day, Amazon couldn't really care less about selling shitty Chinese knockoff phone chargers for $3.99/ea with free 2-day shipping. They must see themselves more as an infrastructure (both digital and physical) company these days.

[Trey3216 15346]

8 minutes ago, Updawg said:

Agree. I have pretty much stopped buying shit from them. I'd almost rather go to Walmart. Well not really, but I buy local instead

The convenience factor isn't that big of a deal.

I still buy from them, but only brands I know, books, and some handy items I don’t have to depend upon.  

[Trey3216 15346]

3 minutes ago, tokamak said:

I disagree. Someone else already said it, but people have short memories. Like, nonexistent. If Amazon announced tomorrow that they want to build HQ4 (or 5, I've lost count), every city in the country would line up and bend over exactly the same as they just did.

We should probably have an Amazon meta thread, but I largely agree. As a consumer, the luster is starting to wear off of Amazon as a place to actually buy goods. Still, the convenience factor remains very high, the competitors are relatively small and disorganized, and they have millions of people (like me) semi-locked in to the Prime ecosystem. I think at the end of the day, Amazon couldn't really care less about selling shitty Chinese knockoff phone chargers for $3.99/ea with free 2-day shipping. They must see themselves more as an infrastructure (both digital and physical) company these days.

Exactly.    The chargers are horrific.  They burnout in 2-3 months.   

[Updawg 2267]

I still buy from them, but only brands I know, books, and some handy items I don’t have to depend upon.  

Exactly the way I am. The other post is interesting as well. They are almost like infrastructure at this point. Aws, etc as well. Will be interesting to see how they are in 5-10-20 years from now

[gecko 1104]

[Trey3216 15346]

6 minutes ago, Updawg said:

21 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

I still buy from them, but only brands I know, books, and some handy items I don’t have to depend upon.  

Exactly the way I am. The other post is interesting as well. They are almost like infrastructure at this point. Aws, etc as well. Will be interesting to see how they are in 5-10-20 years from now

They are most certainly an infrastructure play.  They will push FedEx and UPS to the limit within the next 5 years.   They will put at least one national grocery chain out of business in that time frame.  They are a transport company masquerading as a retailer at this point.   Once they have the transport stranglehold, they’ll implement an even more stringent product line 

[RiceOwl 74]

If there’s one National grocery chain Amazon will put out of business, it’ll be Albertsons/Safeway. KR and WMT have made the necessary digital investments in an attempt to keep up and strong regional brands like HEB, Publix, Wegman’s, etc have differentiating factors.

[Fozzz 152]

What a fucking joke. If you want to know why this country is finished, start with bullshit like this. 

[MrBig 5412]

All this panty twisting about where the next Amazon HQ will end up reminds me of the hype the Disneyland Texas rumor created. Ok cool, let’s bring more traffic to the area.

[Guest Lobo]

City of Austin leadership dropped the hammer yesterday on the Chamber of Commerce and forced them to seal the details on what the City was prepared to offer them to locate here.  Progressive “rich should pay their fair share” mayor and council members did not want it getting out what we were prepared to give up.

$20 says Troxclair and Ora Houston beat it out of them before they leave office.  

[Trey3216 15346]

4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

City of Austin leadership dropped the hammer yesterday on the Chamber of Commerce and forced them to seal the details on what the City was prepared to offer them to locate here.  Progressive “rich should pay their fair share” mayor and council members did not want it getting out what we were prepared to give up.

$20 says Troxclair and Ora Houston beat it out of them before they leave office.  

Make no mistake, they were prepared to give up the back door.  No lube 

[CDAK 216]

11 hours ago, gecko said:

 

I think NYC and VA understand that Amazon isn't hiring 50k locals.  Amazon wants to hire the top 1% of people in every field.  It's easier to attract the top 1% in certain locations, in part because a sizable chunk already live in those locations.

This tweet seems nativist, anti-immigrant and insular.  A decent percent of the best software engineers on the planet are going to be foreigners or people from other states.  I guess "Seattle" doesn't want different or diverse people, only native borns.

[midtown 3346]

I'd like to know exactly what people think politicians can legally do to Amazon that could be held up in court or that wouldn't damage 1000's of other companies some of which reside in most politicians districts. 

12 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

It’s almost laughable the shit that they put out there now.  Most of that shit comes from China, who we happen to be in a tribal trade war with at the moment.

People still buy iphones too

[hayden_horn 11362]

the thing is, those amazon employees just got fucked as well. the real estate costs and state income taxes alone are going to press those HQ2 employees in those locations.

[midtown 3346]

40 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

the thing is, those amazon employees just got fucked as well. the real estate costs and state income taxes alone are going to press those HQ2 employees in those locations.

People are willing to pay more in taxes and RE costs to live in great cities or LA, NYC, SF, Chicago would be ghost towns. 

[hayden_horn 11362]

6 minutes ago, midtown said:

People are willing to pay more in taxes and RE costs to live in great cities or LA, NYC, SF, Chicago would be ghost towns. 

that i understand, but their purchasing power has just been reduced, if they are moving from seattle. washington has no state income tax.

[Beau Vine 54246]

14 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

In the US. 

And like I told you in my previous post, I’m not talking about a legal definition. I’m talking about political reality.

Can you understand the difference? Was AT&T a monopoly? 

I don't think you actually understand what a monopoly is.  And you either weren't alive or paying attention when Ma Bell was in its prime if you're trying to compare them to Amazon.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Beau Vine

[midtown 3346]

that i understand, but their purchasing power has just been reduced, if they are moving from seattle. washington has no state income tax.

If you're hiring local talent there is no reduction in purchasing power. Any company that wants to be competitive with top talent will make up the 4% or so in COL.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[TornACL 7698]

13 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

Exactly.    The chargers are horrific.  They burnout in 2-3 months.   

I guess some people blame the shopping mall when the clothes they bought at Old Navy wear out after 2 weeks, but that doesn't make sense either.

Caveat emptor.

[hayden_horn 11362]

Just now, midtown said:

If you're hiring local talent there is no reduction in purchasing power. Any company that wants to be competitive with top talent will make up the 4% or so in COL.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

my understanding was that this was a relocation, not a hiring of local talent. if i'm wrong, i stand corrected. 

[midtown 3346]

59 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

my understanding was that this was a relocation, not a hiring of local talent. if i'm wrong, i stand corrected. 

I'm sure its a combination of both.   NYC is 2.5% more expensive than Seattle.  That's nothing..   And how many future AMZN employees will actually live in the city vs out on long island?    The only people who really get really geeked up about COL are Texans which is why a good percentage of Texans live in Texas.  People who chose to live in cities mentioned could give two shits about owning a 5000 sqft house and having 3 cars.  

[TheYoungHorn 58]

On 11/14/2018 at 12:11 PM, hayden_horn said:

my understanding was that this was a relocation, not a hiring of local talent. if i'm wrong, i stand corrected. 

I would guess a very high majority of those figures will be new hires of local talent (95%+). Of course they will send some established executives to lead teams/divisions, but Amazon isn't shipping people out of Seattle to stock up these new offices. 

[Guest Lobo]

Amazon also has an additional 525,000+ employees NOT in Seattle.  They can poach whoever they want from any of these global offices and move them to the new HQ2 facilities whenever they want.  The custodial crew will be local and maybe a few community liasons.  Everybody else is being sent there from other Amazon offices.  

[TheYoungHorn 58]

18 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Amazon also has an additional 525,000+ employees NOT in Seattle.  They can poach whoever they want from any of these global offices and move them to the new HQ2 facilities whenever they want.  The custodial crew will be local and maybe a few community liasons.  Everybody else is being sent there from other Amazon offices.  

Are you dense? 

You do realize the majority of those employees work in FCs, ie they are blue-collar warehouse workers? If not there, in another part of the logistics arm. 

If their primary goal was to extract as much benefits from governments to build places to ship existing employees they would have chosen the places that were offering even more incentives. 

Amazon's primary objective was growing a presence in markets where existing talent is located, and centers that have the amenities to continue to attract talent. 

They can't hire any more people in certain fields in Seattle, they just don't exist. Plus they can hardly get people to move to Seattle, because it's Seattle (weather kills them for people not from PNW). 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by TheYoungHorn

[gecko 1104]

On 11/14/2018 at 9:23 AM, Lobo said:

City of Austin leadership dropped the hammer yesterday on the Chamber of Commerce and forced them to seal the details on what the City was prepared to offer them to locate here.  Progressive “rich should pay their fair share” mayor and council members did not want it getting out what we were prepared to give up.

$20 says Troxclair and Ora Houston beat it out of them before they leave office.  

That's actually a good strategy.  Why let other companies know how far you were willing to go?  But keeping that under wraps will be impossible.

[Pasken 1309]

On 11/14/2018 at 9:23 AM, Lobo said:

City of Austin leadership dropped the hammer yesterday on the Chamber of Commerce and forced them to seal the details on what the City was prepared to offer them to locate here.  Progressive “rich should pay their fair share” mayor and council members did not want it getting out what we were prepared to give up.

$20 says Troxclair and Ora Houston beat it out of them before they leave office.  

Ora Houston is not going to break her record 4 year streak of 0 accomplishments this close to the end of her term.

[Aqua Buddha 14598]

On 11/16/2018 at 1:01 PM, TheYoungHorn said:

Are you dense? 

You do realize the majority of those employees work in FCs, ie they are blue-collar warehouse workers? If not there, in another part of the logistics arm. 

If their primary goal was to extract as much benefits from governments to build places to ship existing employees they would have chosen the places that were offering even more incentives. 

Amazon's primary objective was growing a presence in markets where existing talent is located, and centers that have the amenities to continue to attract talent. 

They can't hire any more people in certain fields in Seattle, they just don't exist. Plus they can hardly get people to move to Seattle, because it's Seattle (weather kills them for people not from PNW). 

 

Yeah, this.  Seattle was a tough sell for them and once people got there, they generally didn't stay at AMZN long because it's a fucking grind and in Seattle, you have other options.  AMZN was basically relocating people that Costco or MSFT would hire for free two years later.  

Also, they were looking for a place to put a headquarters.  That's more than just tech, which is where a lot of these cities came up short.  (Austin.)  NYC has the tech base and the people in finance, legal, tax, etc.  

What I find interesting is the Nashville move.  They had trouble getting supply chain and ops people to move to Seattle and they knew they sure as shit weren't moving to NYC.  So, they picked Nashville, which for a smaller market, has more corporate HQ's than you think.  Smart move there.

[CDAK 216]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

What I find interesting is the Nashville move.  They had trouble getting supply chain and ops people to move to Seattle and they knew they sure as shit weren't moving to NYC.  So, they picked Nashville, which for a smaller market, has more corporate HQ's than you think.  Smart move there.

Why did they have trouble getting supply chain and ops people to move to Seattle?  I mean, why those two categories in particular?  Are they paid lower than other categories and thus couldn't bring them to Seattle due to the cost of living?

[happyfunball 481]

58 minutes ago, CDAK said:

Why did they have trouble getting supply chain and ops people to move to Seattle?  I mean, why those two categories in particular?  Are they paid lower than other categories and thus couldn't bring them to Seattle due to the cost of living?

Fedex HQ is in TN

[KeysPhoneWallet 807]

Why did they have trouble getting supply chain and ops people to move to Seattle?  I mean, why those two categories in particular?  Are they paid lower than other categories and thus couldn't bring them to Seattle due to the cost of living?

Bc it's expensive to live there and those folks arent making tons of money

[Aqua Buddha 14598]

1 hour ago, CDAK said:

Why did they have trouble getting supply chain and ops people to move to Seattle?  I mean, why those two categories in particular?  Are they paid lower than other categories and thus couldn't bring them to Seattle due to the cost of living?

Correct.  

Middle management can make decent money but not necessarily as much as their tech counterparts and Seattle has had a big run up in real estate prices over the last five years.

[CDAK 216]

Ok, I'm certainly no expert on corporate pay by department but it seems odd to me that employees in supply chain and ops are paid lower than every other department (e.g., HR, finance, risk, marketing, legal, corporate communications, security, etc.).  

[Aqua Buddha 14598]

34 minutes ago, CDAK said:

Ok, I'm certainly no expert on corporate pay by department but it seems odd to me that employees in supply chain and ops are paid lower than every other department (e.g., HR, finance, risk, marketing, legal, corporate communications, security, etc.).  

Depends on the specialty but on average, all of those are still paid less than tech.  (We're speaking in generalities here, I know.)  

Supply chain skill sets are harder to find than some of those others, though.  Marketing, finance, etc. are fairly ubiquitous, especially in bigger markets.

[Celery Man 20962]

 

[clapclapclap 9000]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-11/only-700-amazon-workers-are-coming-to-long-island-city-in-2019?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_content=business&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business

Don’t set your alarm for 4 a.m. hoping to beat all the Amazon workers to the subway just yet.

The online retailer will hire only about 700 people next year at its new Long Island City location at One Court Square, growing to about 3,000 in 2020, according to documents released Tuesday by New York City.

The documents include New York’s pitch to the Seattle-based tech giant to attract 50,000 good-paying corporate jobs to the metropolitan area, as well as a memorandum of understanding about the project in Long Island City. Amazon announced last month that it had split its new office project in half, with 25,000 jobs going to Queens and 25,000 going to the Washington, D.C. suburbs within 15 years.

New York officials were willing to seize property through eminent domain for the company, and proposed sites in Manhattan, Brooklyn and even Pearl River in Rockland County north of the city. The Long Island City project will begin in office space at One Court Square, followed by construction of a waterfront campus around Anable Basin in 2020. Several New York City politicians, saying they were shut out of negotiations handled by the governor and mayor, have raised objections to the project.

Edited December 12, 2018 by clapclapclap
"Can you steal it? Can you steal it? CAN YOU STEAL IT!"

[MissingInAction 25103]

All I know is I have had to return roughly half the crap I have ordered from them over the past year due to damage. Between the hassle of taking the crap to a UPS store, haggling with the vendors, etc , it just isnt worth it. Only buying books and video games from now on. 

[gecko 1104]

Haha

[clapclapclap 9000]

I looked it up, the city of culverts is between LAX and UCLA, just east of Marina Del Rey.

Edited December 13, 2018 by clapclapclap
Like castaways, in Marina Del Rey

[YChang 3451]

Culver City is where the Beats office is and maybe they'll expand it for all the movie/tv stuff as well. 

[Aqua Buddha 14598]

23 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-11/only-700-amazon-workers-are-coming-to-long-island-city-in-2019?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_content=business&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business

Don’t set your alarm for 4 a.m. hoping to beat all the Amazon workers to the subway just yet.

The online retailer will hire only about 700 people next year at its new Long Island City location at One Court Square, growing to about 3,000 in 2020, according to documents released Tuesday by New York City.

The documents include New York’s pitch to the Seattle-based tech giant to attract 50,000 good-paying corporate jobs to the metropolitan area, as well as a memorandum of understanding about the project in Long Island City. Amazon announced last month that it had split its new office project in half, with 25,000 jobs going to Queens and 25,000 going to the Washington, D.C. suburbs within 15 years.

New York officials were willing to seize property through eminent domain for the company, and proposed sites in Manhattan, Brooklyn and even Pearl River in Rockland County north of the city. The Long Island City project will begin in office space at One Court Square, followed by construction of a waterfront campus around Anable Basin in 2020. Several New York City politicians, saying they were shut out of negotiations handled by the governor and mayor, have raised objections to the project.

This is like an AMZN pop up store.  It sounds like a big deal but when you get there, it isn't much of anything.