Texas O-line talk

[futureman 22542]

10 minutes ago, ATLLonghorn said:

493th

…

[ClubWhatever 12157]

15 minutes ago, ATLLonghorn said:

You cannot keep playing him

Flood says hold my beer

[Sawbonz 27587]

1 hour ago, Tex-19 said:

Per Jeff Howe, PFF gave Jones a 8.2 pass block grade and Karic 12.6 against OU. Out of 100. 

That is bad. Very very bad.

That’s 8.2 points higher than a dead guy

[BurntOrange&White 40007]

There has to be some kind of complete over haul of the line

[Tex-19 2885]

2 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

See!  I told you Karic was better than Jones!

Holy shit.  We have to move one of them inside to guard and get Kerstetter back at tackle in the short term. 

Long term, maybe move all of them to guard and get JUCOs or portal transfers for both tackle spots next year.   Even an average portal guy from a middling program is going to grade out better than that.  

Kerstetter is a mediocre LG but a very good pass-blocking RT. I don't understand why Hand and now Flood have moved him inside only to have garbage at RT. It seems so obvious to me that he should be at RT. Having a weak RT and average LG is worse than having a good RT and weak LG.

[BurntOrange&White 40007]

6 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

See!  I told you Karic was better than Jones!

Holy shit.  We have to move one of them inside to guard and get Kerstetter back at tackle in the short term.   Karic can run block at least, so maybe get him at guard.  And give someone else a shot at Jones.  Hookfin seems buried on the depth chart, but he seems like he might be able to move his feet.

Long term, maybe move all of them to guard and get JUCOs or portal transfers for both tackle spots next year.   Even an average portal guy from a middling program is going to grade out better than that.  

Yup. We can’t have two tackles that are dog shit at pass protection 

[dcar00 14360]

3 minutes ago, Tex-19 said:

Kerstetter is a mediocre LG but a very good pass-blocking RT. I don't understand why Hand and now Flood have moved him inside only to have garbage at RT. It seems so obvious to me that he should be at RT. Having a weak RT and average LG is worse than having a good RT and weak LG.

the only thing I can think of is that Sark and Flood are trying to 

a) get the best run blocking line they can with this shitty hand(no pun intended) they have been dealt

b) if you can't block the middle in pass pro no plays will work, at least at RT Casey can see what is coming and adjust.

that said it is all on them that they couldn't get a couple of serviceable OL from the portal.  they decided to roll with what they had.

[BurntOrange&White 40007]

6 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Yup. We can’t have two tackles that are dog shit at pass protection 

I would like to see this:

 

LT Kerstetter 

LG Conner

C Majors

RG Angilau

RT Karic

 

 

[Royale with cheese 1467]

It's common knowledge where we are. How we got here, not so much. It's lazy to just blame it all on Herman, although he deserves his last full measure. Like many above, I'm having a hard time figuring out why the present coaches failed to realize what they didn't have and take steps in the portal and grad transfer markets to at least stop the bleeding. The NCAA has recently adopted a waiver allowing colleges to replace up to 7 transfers over and above the normal annual signing class limit. I assume we'll have transfers out--hopefully, the expendable ones. I realize serviceable to good OL talent is hard to find in the current market, and even harder to sign, given the competition. Maybe it's time to let our moneyed nuts hang and do whatever it takes to get some help in here. My ticker can't take many more last Saturdays, and I'm not that old.

[SarkAfterDark 1694]

I'm not sure why y'all keep acting like there were All American OL in the portal we decided to pass on. The majority of kids in the portal are there because they aren't getting meaningful playing time because they aren't very good. From what I recall there weren't really any OL in the portal that were worth reaching for. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong and it'll be the same next year unless some particular lineman want to come home.

[tbone_ 14158]

I'm not sure why y'all keep acting like there were All American OL in the portal we decided to pass on. The majority of kids in the portal are there because they aren't getting meaningful playing time because they aren't very good. From what I recall there weren't really any OL in the portal that were worth reaching for. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong and it'll be the same next year unless some particular lineman want to come home.

Dude no one is asking for all Americans from the portal. Just someone who can score better than 8-12 out of 100. Jfc.

[Vertigo 20332]

If our tackles graded out at a 50 last weekend in pass pro, we win that game going away.

[SarkAfterDark 1694]

9 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

Dude no one is asking for all Americans from the portal. Just someone who can score better than 8-12 out of 100. Jfc.

If they are in the portal what makes you think they can accomplish such? Again OL getting actual playing time because they are competent don't end up in the portal.

[hookem48 4703]

16 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

I'm not sure why y'all keep acting like there were All American OL in the portal we decided to pass on. The majority of kids in the portal are there because they aren't getting meaningful playing time because they aren't very good. From what I recall there weren't really any OL in the portal that were worth reaching for. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong and it'll be the same next year unless some particular lineman want to come home.

there were 17 All Americans but Sark just sucks

[Gut Wagon 8087]

So...Bijan to LT? 

You'd think any 300-pounder with a pulse would grade out at 15 or better in pass protection. But after watching yesterday, I can easily believe Jones fell short. An abysmal performance.

 

[Red Five 40891]

So what would Hookfin and Garth look like? Would they immediately fall down on their backs after every snap?

[Aces_Full 41]

When you rate 8-12 out of a 100, then it’s an automatic benching.  Time to try someone...anyone else. 
 

Christian Jones does not belong.  

[LTtxfan 49352]

2 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I would like to see this:

• LT Kerstetter 
• LG Conner
• C Majors
• RG Angilau
• RT Karic

 

 

Might make a few o-line changes after bye week maybe ???  

[Coach pop a bitch 5493]

Said it as a joke but it might be true Washington is best blocker on team

 

[pacman 7371]

Poor mentality, lack of leadership and accountability from the players.

 

Ineffective coaching.

 

Different year. Same story.

 

You don't look this bad without a complete failure by all involved. Perhaps Flood is struggling to handle whatever he does as OC and his oline duties. His track record is solid otherwise.

 

Quote

“I just think that we felt embarrassed by the way we approached that game,” Majors said on Center Stage with Jake Majors this week. “I don’t think we were emotionally attached to that game — I feel like every game you should play with emotion and I personally didn’t feel it, I don’t think I had it either. I think we just thought we were gonna show up and win and we soon realized that’s not the case.”

Clearly, this was coachspeak horseshit.

Edited October 11, 2021 by pacman

[LTtxfan 49352]

Thx for this @satyanash 

Scipio Tex:  Postmortem blOU

Then there’s Bijan:

Wide zone with a little backside constraint blocker. Jake Majors gets a pancake, Angilau does his work, Karic seals the edge beautifully and then…well, that’s just incredible running. Texas was crushing the Sooners in every way conceivable, repeatedly attacking the edges of the Sooner defense to slow down the pass rush, create pause, and force Texas wide outs into single man coverage against OU’s weak secondary on play action.

What explains the second half?

Perhaps it’s the law of offensive gravity. What goes up, must come down. Maybe Sark ran out of tricks to flummox Sooner coverages. What’s clear is that Texas started losing 1st down when Grinch rallied his troops. The Sooner front started getting home and 1st half heat started turning into second half hits on Casey. The more time Texas spent in 3rd and long, the less satisfactory the results. Texas was 1 of 6 on 3rd down conversions in the second half and Casey Thompson spent far too much time under duress as the offense had to play in a pure drop back passing game that it wasn’t well-suited to execute, in contrast to the first half of play action wizardry and edge attacks that slowed the Sooner pass rush just enough.

Over roughly the last 16 minutes of the game, Texas was outscored 31-7.

Texas had six second half possessions (nine in the first half, scored on six). Three 2nd half possessions were three and outs – each with a significant negative play on 1st or 2nd down (-4 yard Robinson run, a Thompson sack, Majors penalty). The other three? A field goal drive to put Texas up 41-23, a drive that ended on downs on the Sooner 24 yard line, and then the tying touchdown drive to notch it up 48 all. Those last two drives were the Horns’ final efforts. The Texas offense had regained its composure late, but other units rendered that fact irrelevant

OL

On rewatch, they did many good things (yes, really), but they struggled badly in pure, predictable passing situations. Three observations:

1. In the second half, OU was attacking Longhorn protection rules as much as individual players. Yes, you will see a play in the second half where a Sooner three man rush has both ends meet at Casey Thompson as they beat Karic and Jones and that’s got nothing to do with protection rules, but more often I saw free men outside or inside because OU had the Horn protection scheme dialed in. Specifically, how they “help” and deal with an extra man or a slant. That’s as much a coaching issue as a player issue. Bottom line: Texas didn’t get hat on hat.

2. Texas is a run and play-action passing team. Outside zone and attacking the edge with jet/fly was very good to the offense for most of the game, but it got less reliable as the game went on. At least some of that was a diminishment in motion and eye candy that helps freeze defenders. In fairness, OU also started ignoring deception and just attacking. That really showed up on a couple of play action shots where pulling Texas OL were asked to block OU DL with their ears pinned back. Those plays didn’t end well.

3. When the OL started to fall apart, rather than get reoriented and reorganized, you saw composure slip and mistakes compound for too long. Texas got it together late and may have been fine offensively in an overtime situation, but the Longhorn defense denied us an opportunity to know that.

Final

The Texas offense is an imperfect product, but Sark can scheme it, this team can score enough most Saturdays, and the offensive scoreboard in Dallas seems to agree. On balance, it’s very difficult to argue that an offense that put up 48 points and over 500 yards at 8.5 yards per play with no turnovers didn’t get it done. The second half offense felt particularly dire because the play of the Texas defense was so feeble. We shifted the entire weight of our expectations to the only unit that demonstrated any ability to perform.

Second half slowdown aside, let's be clear about what side of the ball didn’t show up. 

[satyanash 14629]

2 hours ago, SarkAfterDark said:

I'm not sure why y'all keep acting like there were All American OL in the portal we decided to pass on. The majority of kids in the portal are there because they aren't getting meaningful playing time because they aren't very good. From what I recall there weren't really any OL in the portal that were worth reaching for. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong and it'll be the same next year unless some particular lineman want to come home.

A&M got their current starting LT Jahmir Johnson from the portal during the off-season. blOU got Wanya Morris who's also started two games for them at LT. Both from Tennessee.

[Thatguy 8859]

   Again, these coaches were not on the sideline last year so expecting them to know what they have during offseason practice is asking a bit much. What they saw on tape was Cosmi and the guys who played last year for the most part. This is a different line with guys playing in different spots. I am sure they did not practice near this terrible. Especially against our line that cannot get pressure on the QB. I am sure they will get it fixed this offseason now that they know.

[Thatguy 8859]

4 hours ago, Tex-19 said:

Kerstetter is a mediocre LG but a very good pass-blocking RT. I don't understand why Hand and now Flood have moved him inside only to have garbage at RT. It seems so obvious to me that he should be at RT. Having a weak RT and average LG is worse than having a good RT and weak LG.

  The only thing I can say is that even though you are on an island, playing tackle can be a bit easier than playing inside when it comes to dealing with pass-offs and multiple people crossing your face with stunts and twists. Maybe those others don't deal with that well when they ran it through in practice.

[Fletch 5800]

7 hours ago, Tex-19 said:

Per Jeff Howe, PFF gave Jones a 8.2 pass block grade and Karic 12.6 against OU. Out of 100. 

That is bad. Very very bad.

Idk dude. I judge lineman by milk fat percentage and I gotta say, we’re doing pretty damn well 

[dcar00 14360]

2 hours ago, pacman said:

 

 

You don't look this bad without a complete failure by all involved. Perhaps Flood is struggling to handle whatever he does as OC and his oline duties. His track record is solid otherwise.

 

 

I agree. Flood bears some significant responsibility for them looking as bad as they do in game 5.

as for Majors' comment about just showing up and winning, he can't be that stupid to say that about the OU game.  He has to say something and he can't call out his coach or his teammates for sucking so just say they weren't mentally ready.

[Laga4 1270]

4 hours ago, Red Five said:

So what would Hookfin and Garth look like? Would they immediately fall down on their backs after every snap?

The pass rusher might trip over them.  Worth a try. 

[RabidM 2668]

We were experimenting with Junior at OC in camp.  Maybe we should try it out.  

LT Derek Kerstetter

LG Hayden Conner

OC Junior Angilau

RG Tope Imade?

RT Andre Karic (he was bad, but he was going against a likely 1st rounder in his first start of the year.  It's too early to write him off.)

[52-80 19245]

I've been scanning the 247 lists from all the prior years and it seems like we're never chasing or landing OL talent.  That is a concern, dude.

The top TX big boys all seem to go to Alabama, or ATM.

Had a good haul in 2020 but these are 2021 and 2022 projected

 

2021
1. OSU
2. OU
3. ATM
4. ATM
5. BU
6. ASU
7. AL
8. OU
9. Stanford
10. BU

2022
1. TX (Devon Campbell)
2. ORE
3. ATM
4. ATM
5. FSU
6. USC
7. OSU/ATM
8. UK
9. TX
10. WSU

Edited October 11, 2021 by 52-80

[Duane Moore 5249]

13 hours ago, ATLLonghorn said:

SIAP and I don't know why I do this to myself, but here are PFF's blocking grades from yesterday, run blocking on the left and pass blocking on the right. Karic's pass blocking grade is bad enough, but Christian Jones just isn't a power five conference player. They have to try something else.

Is it normal for there to be such variability in the scores between pass blocking and run blocking?  Run blocking is pretty tightly bunched with a high of 64 and a low of 50, while pass blocking ranges from 83 (66 for a lineman) all the way down to 8.
 

Worth noting Karic graded out as the best run blocker on the team, but again, the difference from other players wasn’t that much. 

[gmr548 16614]

I agree. Flood bears some significant responsibility for them looking as bad as they do in game 5.
as for Majors' comment about just showing up and winning, he can't be that stupid to say that about the OU game.  He has to say something and he can't call out his coach or his teammates for sucking so just say they weren't mentally ready.

That video is dated a week ago so he’s obviously not talking about OU. I’d assume he is referring to Arkansas.

There isn’t a fix for this unit this year or next year. It’s been a multi year project for over a decade now. The only progress came with a tackle pairing of Cosmi and Kerstetter, but at this point the roster and recruiting pipeline at OT is so bleak it’s pretty likely it brings Sark down before it gets fixed and we’ll be starting all over again in a few years.

[Thiefery 5017]

9 hours ago, satyanash said:

A&M got their current starting LT Jahmir Johnson from the portal during the off-season. blOU got Wanya Morris who's also started two games for them at LT. Both from Tennessee.

Why didn't they get them..? I mean how do those schools have better sells? One kid was all SEC, and the other went to a school known to put OL in the NFL and get into the CFP more often than not. 

While we are at it, should go post the same thing on the DEF thread.. why didn't we get To'To?? This staff sucks!! 🥴

[SarkAfterDark 1694]

10 hours ago, satyanash said:

A&M got their current starting LT Jahmir Johnson from the portal during the off-season. blOU got Wanya Morris who's also started two games for them at LT. Both from Tennessee.

What point is being made here? I don't remember seeing Morris on the field Saturday, and Johnson along with the rest of A&M's OL has been trash all year.

[gmr548 16614]

What point is being made here? I don't remember seeing Morris on the field Saturday, and Johnson along with the rest of A&M's OL has been trash all year.

It’s bitching just to bitch. The best case scenario for portal OL is a guy like Calvin Anderson who’s an all conference type on a G5 team that isn’t competitive for a conference title and wants to improve their draft stock. That’s a very specific model. Starting caliber P5 offensive linemen don’t often enter the portal because they are already getting PT. The portal isn’t the quick fix for OL that people want it to be. He even sinks his own point by noting both examples came from Tennessee - mass exodus from a power 5 program like that isn’t something that can be counted on.

[DFW Horn 6202]

1. It's foolish to think the transfer portal will be a cure-all for the OL

2. Y'all act like our younger OL can't improve and be coached up for future success. I expect Jones, Karic, Connor, Hookfin, etc. to all get better in the offseason and spring.

But, yeah, we can sure use more depth and need to recruit more OL. Most HS prospects are developmental projects who can use a redshirt. I'm confident we're gonna get better.

[gmr548 16614]

1. It's foolish to think the transfer portal will be a cure-all for the OL
2. Y'all act like our younger OL can't improve and be coached up for future success. I expect Jones, Karic, Connor, Hookfin, etc. to all get better in the offseason and spring.
But, yeah, we can sure use more depth and need to recruit more OL. Most HS prospects are developmental projects who can use a redshirt. I'm confident we're gonna get better.

Jones is what he is at this point, he’s a fourth year junior and very clearly hasn’t responded to anything Flood is doing differently than Hand, unless Flood is actually coaching him to be awful. In which case he’s fantastic. Hookfin is going to have to stay healthy which hasn’t worked out to this point.

Younger guys can certainly improve but that in itself is a multi year process. The unit can definitely get better but this isn’t going to be a conference championship level OL for several years, same as it has been for a decade.

[dcar00 14360]

2 hours ago, gmr548 said:

That video is dated a week ago so he’s obviously not talking about OU. I’d assume he is referring to Arkansas.

There isn’t a fix for this unit this year or next year. It’s been a multi year project for over a decade now. The only progress came with a tackle pairing of Cosmi and Kerstetter, but at this point the roster and recruiting pipeline at OT is so bleak it’s pretty likely it brings Sark down before it gets fixed and we’ll be starting all over again in a few years.

good point on it being Arkansas(or maybe TCU?). I'm not looking for a fix, I'm looking for improvement.  I knew losing Okafor was gonna be a problem.  To be honest, we are scoring points.  I'm way more worried about the defense which IMO should be better.  our DLine situation is not like what we have on the OL.  we have some players there and they need to be coached up.

I realize the transfer portal isn't an OL panacea, like skill positions can be, but Sark and Flood need to work it hard because at least you can find guys that have been in a S&C program for a while.

[USNALonghorn 5078]

I don't think those that mention the portal realistically expect us to find a Sam Cosmi or Connor Williams looking to transfer. The portal is a band aid. We need to find one or two guys that are better than the weakest link in our line. Look at last weeks offensive line grades and re-watch the second half of the game. The bar is set pretty damn low. Find me one or two guys that can hold a block 0.5 seconds longer than our worst starters. There were several plays Saturday when that 0.5 seconds is the difference between Bijan getting popped in the backfield and making a 5-10 yard gain. Same applies for Casey looking for a screen or dump off to the RB. If Tom Herman and his idiot staff can benefit from OL portal twice (Anderson and Braun), them I'm sure Sark and co. can do the same.

[GringoSalado 1652]

38 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

good point on it being Arkansas(or maybe TCU?). I'm not looking for a fix, I'm looking for improvement.  I knew losing Okafor was gonna be a problem.  To be honest, we are scoring points.  I'm way more worried about the defense which IMO should be better.  our DLine situation is not like what we have on the OL.  we have some players there and they need to be coached up.

I realize the transfer portal isn't an OL panacea, like skill positions can be, but Sark and Flood need to work it hard because at least you can find guys that have been in a S&C program for a while.

The staff had to go to the portal for 2 edge players so I don't see how folks are saying our DL talent is a better situation.  Our front 3 or 4 don't do much.

[MrBig 5439]

We didn’t grab better guys from the portal because Sark is a new coach. It’s a big decision to risk your transfer on a new coach who hasn’t even played a game yet at any school.

I have confidence that recruits and transfers see the type of things Sark is trying to do. They are motivated to come play here based on the lack of depth at certain positions.

If Sark can’t get a bunch of guys from the portal to fill the holes in the next cycle, then we should start bitching.

 

[Rockethorn1978 6102]

The portal needs to be raised as well as grad transfers. Most true freshman rarely come in and start and dominate so we need some guys that will come in and have experience. 

[BurntOrange&White 40007]

1 minute ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

The portal needs to be raised as well as grad transfers. Most true freshman rarely come in and start and dominate so we need some guys that will come in and have experience. 

OL

LB

DL

Safety

WR

 

In that order of portal importance. 

[Rockethorn1978 6102]

I guess how many we go get depends on how many spots are open. I expect a few to portal from Texas even from the areas we need help

and depth in.

[SarkAfterDark 1694]

Again, unless some particular OL want to come home to Texas I think some of you are setting yourselves up to be disappointed.

[Chad 1728]

I don't believe the portal is the cure all for the OL that a lot of y'all think it is. Remember Parker Braun the 2x 1st team All-ACC OG that transferred here and was marginally better than Okafor? Yeah.....

[Horn Dog 9923]

I have been think a lot about this and there is only one reasonable explanation for a decade plus of shit Oline play.  The answer is somewhere in this report but I need one of you chemistry nerds to find which contaminate results in a combination of brain fog, delayed reflexes and genialized pussyness

 

 

[MIkeHoncho 1931]

12 minutes ago, Chad said:

I don't believe the portal is the cure all for the OL that a lot of y'all think it is. Remember Parker Braun the 2x 1st team All-ACC OG that transferred here and was marginally better than Okafor? Yeah.....

At this point I'd take "marginally better than" anyone on the o-line.  Also, remember Parker Braun went into a COMPLETELY different system with Tom Herman as the HC.

Maybe for 1 year we can divert any funds from the Burnt Endz to offensive tackles and just money whip some transfers and stud recruits to turn it around quickly in '22.  Until then, I think Flood is actually doing his best to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.  

[MIkeHoncho 1931]

I should probably spoiler this in case there are people with underlying conditions, but this is the O-Line coaching history since 2015: 

I am very hopeful that Flood is the one to stop the O-Line Coaching Regard train. 

 

[956 Worldwide 34769]

More than any other group, OL play improves when the unit gets some reps together. Transfer portal is going to be a limited option for success aside from getting maybe one spot upgraded at a position of true weakness. You’ll be surprised how much better a young group can get just by playing together. 

[6th Street 6503]