Texas O-line talk

[Hookem2147 21241]

I think it’s not a coincidence that dudes like Hutson and Conner (neither highly rated) come in and immediately make an impact under Flood. Flood is having to break a lot of 2 and 3 year bad habits with guys who spent time under Herb Hand. When he’s been the only OL coach voice a guy has heard, the results seem to be pretty good. It is a smallish sample size but I think it’s a good sign. Guys like Karic and Majors also only spent 1 covid year with Hand and seem to be less fundamentally flawed than the dudes who were here for multiple years. 

[Hookem2147 21241]

4 minutes ago, futureman said:

he also might be the best. that remains to be seen. 

Maybe. Hutson already finding a place on the depth chart bodes well for at least setting the floor for that class.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18549]

On the second play in the video, I'm thinking, "Wow! Christian Jones really pancaked that dude. It's nice to see him being physical and playing with an edge." And then he gets up and it's the left guard. Furk. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Mitch Cumsteen

[Atticus 3973]

30 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

I think it’s not a coincidence that dudes like Hutson and Conner (neither highly rated) come in and immediately make an impact under Flood. Flood is having to break a lot of 2 and 3 year bad habits with guys who spent time under Herb Hand. When he’s been the only OL coach voice a guy has heard, the results seem to be pretty good. It is a smallish sample size but I think it’s a good sign. Guys like Karic and Majors also only spent 1 covid year with Hand and seem to be less fundamentally flawed than the dudes who were here for multiple years. 

Conner was actually a 5 star early in his cycle. Ended up a 3 star at the end. 
Hutson was the number 1 OL in the country on that random and likely biased list. 

Will be an interesting summer/fall if the young guys are as advertised, have the right mentality, and stay healthy. 

[BurntOrange&White 39931]

39 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

If someone like Hutson is already making an impact and showing he can hold this own, the 2022 offensive line class is going to be on another planet. Hutson might be the 5th best OL we signed.

Banks/Campbell 1/2
Neto/Cam/Hutson would be my next 3

Agbo/Robertson would be my last two.

[Goodman 3273]

Agbo is the only “project”. 

[Codaxx 5739]

1 hour ago, JBJ said:

Actually I think it's on the guard (Hutson?)  The entire line looks like it's blocking right, with the two backs protecting the left side.

I didnt look too hard at the 2 string OL. Really would like the end zone angle on this stuff, but I will take you at your word. 

[Codaxx 5739]

57 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

On the second play in the video, I'm thinking, "Wow! Christian Jones really pancaked that dude. It's nice to see him being physical and playing with an edge." And then he gets up and it's the left guard. Furk. 

Jones destroyed someone on the first TD run. I believe it was Finkley. 

[Burt Macklin 19023]

42 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Jones destroyed someone on the first TD run. I believe it was Finkley. 

It was Finkley. He got demolished. He also got manhandled by Helm the whole first drive. Zero sum and all, but I was hoping Finkley would be more ready to play as a true freshman. I'm glad he's an EE so he has more time to imrpove, but I think he'll be less ready to play than I had hoped, which makes landing Mathis that much more critical. 

[Codaxx 5739]

20 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

It was Finkley. He got demolished. He also got manhandled by Helm the whole first drive. Zero sum and all, but I was hoping Finkley would be more ready to play as a true freshman. I'm glad he's an EE so he has more time to imrpove, but I think he'll be less ready to play than I had hoped, which makes landing Mathis that much more critical. 

I am actually more worried about the DL than the OL after the scrimmage. 

[gmr548 16580]

Agbo is the only “project”. 

Cam Williams is the project of projects

[BurntOrange&White 39931]

4 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Cam Williams is the project of projects

Not necessarily, his feet and size make him less of a project.

[ClubWhatever 12140]

We're fucked at tackle, again.

[Burt Macklin 19023]

22 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I am actually more worried about the DL than the OL after the scrimmage. 

They're both going to be bad. That and LB are the three weakest positions on our team, so basically both lines of scrimmage. Not great. We should've gone after that DL Baylor landed this offseason, even though we have a lot of numbers at DL. 

7 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

We're fucked at tackle, again.

Yep. People keep pushing this idea that we only really needed a true LT on the OL this year, and it's absolutely absurd. We have 0 good Tackles on the roster right now. LT and RT were both huge needs, and one of them still will be even if Banks is ready to go right away, which is also a huge if. 

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

16 hours ago, Codaxx said:

Would have liked to see the OL try to pick up some stunts 

Your sadism acting up again?

[Hookem2147 21241]

13 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Yep. People keep pushing this idea that we only really needed a true LT on the OL this year, and it's absolutely absurd. We have 0 good Tackles on the roster right now. LT and RT were both huge needs, and one of them still will be even if Banks is ready to go right away, which is also a huge if. 

Is this under the assumption that Conner moves back inside? He seemed passable at tackle if we absolutely needed him to play there. Would then allow Hutson/Campbell to battle it out at the open guard spot. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Hookem2147

[Reese Bennett 3612]

I'm OK with Connor at LT. He'll get beat by speed on occasion, but he's smart enough to keep mental errors at a minimum--and those are what get QBs killed. You can scheme around a guy's physical limitations but it's tough to scheme around stupid. I also think Connor will continue to improve.

[Burt Macklin 19023]

3 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

Is this under the assumption that Conner moves back inside? He seemed passable at tackle if we absolutely needed him to play there. Would then allow Hutson/Campbell to battle it out at the open guard spot. 

Conner might be better than Jones at RT, but he's still not great there. Best case scenario would've been someone better at RT, so Conner can play inside where he's best suited, and then you'd still have an open competition for LT and you could potentially bump out one of Angilau or Majors if they struggle with a true freshman. 

There will also be injuries so barely even having 5 decent OL to play is not a good spot to be in, even if you assume 2 of the true freshman are ready to play at a high level. 

[Burt Macklin 19023]

8 minutes ago, Reese Bennett said:

I'm OK with Connor at LT. He'll get beat by speed on occasion, but he's smart enough to keep mental errors at a minimum--and those are what get QBs killed. You can scheme around a guy's physical limitations but it's tough to scheme around stupid. I also think Connor will continue to improve.

I have no idea how you could possible come to this conclusion. We've barely seen him play at all, let alone at LT. Him looking fine against our backup DL is meaningless.  His phyiscal characteristics don't indicate he'll be sutied for LT. He'll likely struggle a ton with speed rushers, and he may also struggle with the mental aspects of playing LT.  Plus guys who know they can't handle the speed rush tend to overcompensate and make other mistakes.

It's way too early to say Conner will be able to hold up at LT. 

[Hookem2147 21241]

3 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

There will also be injuries so barely even having 5 decent OL to play is not a good spot to be in, even if you assume 2 of the true freshman are ready to play at a high level. 

You definitely want 8 guys ready to go week 1. Majors, Angilau, Conner, Jones, Karic and Hutson is 6. Which like you mentioned means two of the freshman have to be up to speed. You would hope someone like Logan Parr entering his 3rd season would be able to provide depth on the interior but haven't seen anything from him.

[Burt Macklin 19023]

40 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

You definitely want 8 guys ready to go week 1. Majors, Angilau, Conner, Jones, Karic and Hutson is 6. Which like you mentioned means two of the freshman have to be up to speed. You would hope someone like Logan Parr entering his 3rd season would be able to provide depth on the interior but haven't seen anything from him.

That would actually mean we need 3 out of 7 freshman ready to go. And I think counting Karic as ready to go would be rather generous based on how he played last year. He was a huge liability basically every time he played.

[Shaggyhorn 641]

Found it on YouTube.
 
 

Interesting. Hard to draw conclusions, but the pocket is a lot cleaner in many of these plays than last year. Maybe the 1st string will be serviceable this year. I won’t get excited until they do the same thing against real competition.

[Goodman 3273]

or maybe they're going up against the defense that lost 6 straight and could not stop KU.

[Eggo 3977]

Sharing perspective for the OL recruiting haul this year. We need some of them to be ready this year, but I think we see the most benefit after a 2-3 year lag. 

2002 class leads to 2004/2005

2007 class leads to 2008/2009.

2015/2016 leads to 2018 Sugar Bowl

[Reese Bennett 3612]

6 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

I have no idea how you could possible come to this conclusion. We've barely seen him play at all, let alone at LT. Him looking fine against our backup DL is meaningless.  His phyiscal characteristics don't indicate he'll be sutied for LT. He'll likely struggle a ton with speed rushers, and he may also struggle with the mental aspects of playing LT.  Plus guys who know they can't handle the speed rush tend to overcompensate and make other mistakes.

It's way too early to say Conner will be able to hold up at LT. 

Yeah, I'm making some assumptions:

1. All options currently available for LT have significant flaws.

2. Given the flawed options, the one who has a baseline of competence and will make the least mental mistakes is the pick.

3. Connor's both book-smart and football-smart.

4. He's been praised for his versatility and ability to learn both tackle and both guard positions.

5. I think that Flood's coaching and Connor's intelligence will keep him from making cascading errors from overcompensation.

6. You can scheme a little to help with speed rushers.

Conclusion: He's the least bad LT option right now and may well be the least bad option for the first part of the season. That seems a perfectly logical position to take. I'm not saying lock him in at LT for the next three years. It'd be great if Banks lives up to the hype and takes the spot by mid-season.

 

[LTtxfan 49185]

 

[Burt Macklin 19023]

10 minutes ago, Reese Bennett said:

Yeah, I'm making some assumptions:

1. All options currently available for LT have significant flaws.

2. Given the flawed options, the one who has a baseline of competence and will make the least mental mistakes is the pick.

3. Connor's both book-smart and football-smart.

4. He's been praised for his versatility and ability to learn both tackle and both guard positions.

5. I think that Flood's coaching and Connor's intelligence will keep him from making cascading errors from overcompensation.

6. You can scheme a little to help with speed rushers.

Conclusion: He's the least bad LT option right now and may well be the least bad option for the first part of the season. That seems a perfectly logical position to take. I'm not saying lock him in at LT for the next three years. It'd be great if Banks lives up to the hype and takes the spot by mid-season.

 

I don’t necessarily disagree with this, but I think most of us will be less than ok with him playing LT in the Fall. I think he has a very bright future inside and I hope he proves me wrong, but I don’t see a lot of reasons for optimism if he’s playing LT next year. 

[Hookem2147 21241]

 

[Starscreacher 179]

Already posted

Edited April 26, 2022 by Starscreacher

[gmr548 16580]

I don’t necessarily disagree with this, but I think most of us will be less than ok with him playing LT in the Fall. I think he has a very bright future inside and I hope he proves me wrong, but I don’t see a lot of reasons for optimism if he’s playing LT next year. 

This. Connor is not going to be so good at LT or so far superior to the next best option that you hamstring his development and the overall potential of the unit by trying to play him at LT.

I don’t see any reason to think playing him there a little bit in the spring was more than just some tinkering/experimenting given the numbers and stakes, but if he was there in the fall I’d be very disappointed and my already low expectations for the OL would be even lower.

[futureman 22457]

we need a serviceable left tackle. if conner is the guy he’s the guy. I’d expect him to be better than banks this season. 

[BurntOrange&White 39931]

34 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

This. Connor is not going to be so good at LT or so far superior to the next best option that you hamstring his development and the overall potential of the unit by trying to play him at LT.

I don’t see any reason to think playing him there a little bit in the spring was more than just some tinkering/experimenting given the numbers and stakes, but if he was there in the fall I’d be very disappointed and my already low expectations for the OL would be even lower.

Bruh

 

 

LT Banks

LG Angilau/Hutson/Campbell

C Majors/Angilau

RG Campbell/Hutson

RT Conner

 

IMO at some point. But could have some varying form of that which includes Cam Williams or Neto.

Edited April 26, 2022 by BurntOrange&White

[Atticus 3973]

I don't see them taking Jones out of the starting lineup unless he's injured. 

[Thiefery 4995]

Yeah i'd give Jones the chance at RT, and if he struggles then they will reshuffle the OL a bit.  Still think he can be pretty good

[gmr548 16580]

Bruh
 
 
LT Banks
LG Angilau/Hutson/Campbell
C Majors/Angilau
RG Campbell/Hutson
RT Conner
 
IMO at some point. But could have some varying form of that which includes Cam Williams or Neto.

So your contention is Kyle Flood is going to bury Christian Jones under 8 guys? Okay.

[sith_horn 2393]

8 hours ago, futureman said:

we need a serviceable left tackle. if conner is the guy he’s the guy. I’d expect him to be better than banks this season. 

Or maybe just to start the season (depending on Karic too here perhaps) until Banks is ready to take over. Regardless of when Banks assumes the role, Connor as a viable backup LT isn't a bad thing. He's looking a bit like Kerstetter right now with the potential to be a better Swiss Army knife.

[BurntOrange&White 39931]

7 hours ago, gmr548 said:

So your contention is Kyle Flood is going to bury Christian Jones under 8 guys? Okay.

Seems Jones lack of ability will do so. 

[Codaxx 5739]

1 hour ago, sith_horn said:

Or maybe just to start the season (depending on Karic too here perhaps) until Banks is ready to take over. Regardless of when Banks assumes the role, Connor as a viable backup LT isn't a bad thing. He's looking a bit like Kerstetter right now with the potential to be a better Swiss Army knife.

Conner looked OK. His guy didn’t get the sack,  it he was the reason for a sack. They also helped him with a RB multiple times. I think he get by at RT and Texas won’t miss much. At LT I think he will need consistent help. When Texas faces teams with 2 solid pass rushers that will be a problem, ie Bama, because you can’t help both tackles 

[Eggo 3977]

Connor Williams and Patrick Vahe were both freshman starters on the OL in 2015 after being 3* and low 4* recruits. That wasn't a good team and we had one of the worst opening games in memory, but I don't think OL was our weakest link. We're going to be fine. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Eggo

[BurntOrange&White 39931]

45 minutes ago, Eggo said:

Connor Williams and Patrick Vahe were both freshman starters on the OL in 2015 after being 3* and low 4* recruits. That wasn't a good team and we had one of the worst opening games in memory, but I don't think OL was our weakest link. We're going to be fine. 

offensive line sucked ass last year. nothing i've seen from the defensive side gives me hope

[Burt Macklin 19023]

46 minutes ago, Eggo said:

Connor Williams and Patrick Vahe were both freshman starters on the OL in 2015 after being 3* and low 4* recruits. That wasn't a good team and we had one of the worst opening games in memory, but I don't think OL was our weakest link. We're going to be fine. 

You're using the year we went 5-7 with the 73rd ranked offense in the country and were 67th in adjusted line yards as a reason for optimism?  Don't do drugs, kids.

[Hookem2147 21241]

2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

offensive line sucked ass last year. nothing i've seen from the defensive side gives me hope

Out of curiosity, how would you rank the issues for Texas last year position group wise? Like what what were the top 5 problems in order.

[BurntOrange&White 39931]

4 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

Out of curiosity, how would you rank the issues for Texas last year position group wise? Like what what were the top 5 problems in order.

1 - LB

2 - Edge

3 - Safety

4 - OL

5 - WR, if Whittington didn't get hurt probably not here but after he went down that was a problem.

Also receiving Notes: QB/Casey Thompson(Would be 5 if the explanation at 5 wasn't given)

Edited April 27, 2022 by BurntOrange&White

[Eggo 3977]

3 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

You're using the year we went 5-7 with the 73rd ranked offense in the country and were 67th in adjusted line yards as a reason for optimism?  Don't do drugs, kids.

My point is that multiple starting freshmen on the OL isn't unheard of and is no worse than we had last year when we went....5-7.

[BurntOrange&White 39931]

Just now, Eggo said:

My point is that multiple starting freshmen on the OL isn't unheard of and is no worse than we had last year when we went....5-7.

LET EM KNOW! 

[Codaxx 5739]

3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

1 - LB

2 - Edge

3 - Safety

4 - OL

5 - WR, if Whittington didn't get hurt probably not here but after he went down that was a problem.

Also receiving Notes: QB/Casey Thompson(Would be 5 if the explanation at 5 wasn't given)

Having OL over QB is interesting. Texas won 2 games where Sark was pissing himself in fear of throwing another pass (TCU and KSU). Won 5 games and 2 of the them with incompetent QB play

[Burt Macklin 19023]

1 minute ago, Eggo said:

My point is that multiple starting freshmen on the OL isn't unheard of and is no worse than we had last year when we went....5-7.

uhhh the OL in 2015 was significantly worse than last year's OL and going 5-7 again would be a massive failure, so you're really not making the point you think you're making.

[BurntOrange&White 39931]

Just now, Codaxx said:

Having OL over QB is interesting. Texas won 2 games where Sark was pissing himself in fear of throwing another pass (TCU and KSU). Won 5 games and 2 of the them with incompetent QB play

QB did enough in other games to win those, let down by the first 3 on the list though. Last years team was just a clusterfuck of bad.

[BurntOrange&White 39931]

Just now, Burt Macklin said:

uhhh the OL in 2015 was significantly worse than last year's OL and going 5-7 again would be a massive failure, so you're really not making the point you think you're making.

The thought of Christian Jones starting again when we have a guy like Kelvin Banks coming in is enough for me.

[gmr548 16580]

11 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

Out of curiosity, how would you rank the issues for Texas last year position group wise? Like what what were the top 5 problems in order.

I do not like this game. 

1.) OL - Was it the worst unit in absolute terms? Maybe, maybe not, but I think an improvement in performance to a 5.0/10 rating at this position would have changed the team's fortunes more than any other. An ability to consistently run the ball to take the pressure off the QB and defense, closing out games... That would've won several additional games last year. Let alone pass pro issues.

2.) Edge - I do want to credit Jacoby Jones for playing decent ball before he got hurt, even if he wasn't a dynamic pass rusher. Texas was just abused on the edge in the run game and had zero pass rush. The rest of your defense basically doesn't matter with how bad Texas's edge play was.

3.) QB - Hitting even a few of the missed deep balls changes some games.

4.) LB - The scheme funnels a lot to them and they couldn't handle it. Like at all.

5.) DT - Maybe interchangeable with the above. It's hard to judge because I personally think they're being misused, but they also looked bad.

I am not absolving the secondary necessarily, but their task was an impossible one given what was in front of them and the situations the offense put them in.

Edited April 27, 2022 by gmr548