Texas O-line talk

[BurntOrange&White 39,931]

2 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Having OL over QB is interesting. Texas won 2 games where Sark was pissing himself in fear of throwing another pass (TCU and KSU). Won 5 games and 2 of the them with incompetent QB play

To also add to my other thought. If we had better OL play we probably don't shit the bed as bad vs Arkansas. Card develops better and we have a more productive season.

[Hookem2147 21,241]

7 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

1 - LB

2 - Edge

3 - Safety

4 - OL

5 - WR, if Whittington didn't get hurt probably not here but after he went down that was a problem.

Also receiving Notes: QB/Casey Thompson(Would be 5 if the explanation at 5 wasn't given)

Okay, I think we are close to on the same page. I would have QB at 4 with WR and OL right after.

I think there were games where the OL played good enough to win and we got let down by other spots. I think there were more of those types of games than games where the OL outright lost us the game. 

I also think improvement at QB and WR will help take some pressure off the OL. Especially considering we ran the ball decently well for most of the year and the big issues were pass pro. A lot of the positions are intertwined.

[Eggo 3,977]

8 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

uhhh the OL in 2015 was significantly worse than last year's OL and going 5-7 again would be a massive failure, so you're really not making the point you think you're making.

Hey man, if you want to be a pee pee poo poo pants about the prospect of new arrivals being Day 1 starters and improving the line, you be you. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Eggo

[BurntOrange&White 39,931]

1 minute ago, Hookem2147 said:

Okay, I think we are close to on the same page. I would have QB at 4 with WR and OL right after.

I think there were games where the OL played good enough to win and we got let down by other spots. I think there were more of those types of games than games where the OL outright lost us the game. 

I also think improvement at QB and WR will help take some pressure off the OL. Especially considering we ran the ball decently well for most of the year and the big issues were pass pro. A lot of the positions are intertwined.

If Ol played better some games we win, if QB played better when OL played better it turns out differently. We could never put together a complete game, it was either a quarter here or a half here and then complete opposite.  I jus think a better more consistent offensive line changes the complexion of our season and how QB's were developed, run game, and etc.

Edited April 27, 2022 by BurntOrange&White

[Codaxx 5,739]

25 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

QB did enough in other games to win those, let down by the first 3 on the list though. Last years team was just a clusterfuck of bad.

I have OL as the #1 issue on the Offense (EDge easily #1 on the team). Mostly because they did absolutely nothing all year without a strong run game and I dont care that they lit up shit defenses.  Only exception was ULL game, where Card moved the offense until the run game got going in the 2nd half. Texas did not win a single game that they did not run the ball 40+ times. 

Texas played 6 defenses inside the top 50. 

Texas QBs went 99-171, 1004, 5.87 per att,  6 TDs, and 5Ints.. Forgot a whopping 167.33 yards per game.. Those numbers are gross

compare that to run game:

210 att, 894, 4.26 per, 9 TDs.. 149 yards per .. Those numbers are not great, but at least workable 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Codaxx

[JFKFC 4,879]

3 hours ago, Eggo said:

We're going to be fine. 

[LTtxfan 49,185]

 

[Eggo 3,977]

[Hookem2147 21,241]

52 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

 

Moro Ojomo reading that

[LTtxfan 49,185]

Fyi...  Hookfin likely to retire under medical scholarship exemption per FCB due to his motorcycle wreck injuries... 

[LTtxfan 49,185]

 

[Coach pop a bitch 5,459]

 

[GoldAppleCorps 619]

The OL is kinda like a Thanksgiving turkey. You have to keep the oven closed, trust the chef, and let it bake. Like that turkey, when the moment comes, you've either got a beautiful spread, or a whole lot of pissed off people!

Rightly so, we're all going to be worried about it. Last year absolutely sucked, and it was almost all the OL's fault. To extend the analogy, Flood walked into the kitchen to find a bunch of mismatched seasonings and the bird still frozen. The oven was still being fixed.

An offensive line can't be thought of as five separate players. They act as one unit. If a WR misses his route, he just doesn't get the ball that play. If a RB blows the call, the QB scrambles. If the LT misses his assignment, well, we all saw what happens. This is also why an 18 year old kid who was road grading teenagers last year isn't going to succeed against 22 year old collegiate defenders. In addition to the strength mismatches, the learning curve is impossibly high for a guy trying to locate his English class. Stranger things have happened, but not many.

A better way to plan is Kyle Flood and J'Tavian Sanders. Last spring, Flood barely met his charges. We were still stuck in COVID protocols. You just can't teach OL from a book over Zoom. Once the season starts, there's just not enough time to correct the footwork and hand placement problems. I'm eager to see what he does with the entire offseason to work.

The presence of a competent TE is a force multiplier to the OL. If the defense assigns a DE to the outside edge, he won't be able to track the TE into coverage. If you spend a LB covering him, he could be blown out of the play if the TE seals the edge with a block. Now, the spring game was a setup designed to make the offense look good, but watching Sanders run seams, seal edges, and drag defenders out of position using motion tickled me in my special regions. The TE is the linchpin of our offensive schemes, and Texas has a player!

Last season's OL was a special kind of shitshow that negated the talents of a lot of good position players. Its failures kept the defense on the field far too long. They own responsibility for a huge piece of that embarrassing record. They are what they were until proven differently against a hostile defense trying to kill our superstar QBs. I've watched too many seasons of incompetent OL play to make predictions, but I believe I've articulated reasons to look for improvement.

[Codaxx 5,739]

8 minutes ago, GoldAppleCorps said:

The OL is kinda like a Thanksgiving turkey. You have to keep the oven closed, trust the chef, and let it bake. Like that turkey, when the moment comes, you've either got a beautiful spread, or a whole lot of pissed off people!

Rightly so, we're all going to be worried about it. Last year absolutely sucked, and it was almost all the OL's fault. To extend the analogy, Flood walked into the kitchen to find a bunch of mismatched seasonings and the bird still frozen. The oven was still being fixed.

An offensive line can't be thought of as five separate players. They act as one unit. If a WR misses his route, he just doesn't get the ball that play. If a RB blows the call, the QB scrambles. If the LT misses his assignment, well, we all saw what happens. This is also why an 18 year old kid who was road grading teenagers last year isn't going to succeed against 22 year old collegiate defenders. In addition to the strength mismatches, the learning curve is impossibly high for a guy trying to locate his English class. Stranger things have happened, but not many.

A better way to plan is Kyle Flood and J'Tavian Sanders. Last spring, Flood barely met his charges. We were still stuck in COVID protocols. You just can't teach OL from a book over Zoom. Once the season starts, there's just not enough time to correct the footwork and hand placement problems. I'm eager to see what he does with the entire offseason to work.

The presence of a competent TE is a force multiplier to the OL. If the defense assigns a DE to the outside edge, he won't be able to track the TE into coverage. If you spend a LB covering him, he could be blown out of the play if the TE seals the edge with a block. Now, the spring game was a setup designed to make the offense look good, but watching Sanders run seams, seal edges, and drag defenders out of position using motion tickled me in my special regions. The TE is the linchpin of our offensive schemes, and Texas has a player!

Last season's OL was a special kind of shitshow that negated the talents of a lot of good position players. Its failures kept the defense on the field far too long. They own responsibility for a huge piece of that embarrassing record. They are what they were until proven differently against a hostile defense trying to kill our superstar QBs. I've watched too many seasons of incompetent OL play to make predictions, but I believe I've articulated reasons to look for improvement.

cant believe how many times I see that sh!t. Defense is like 90th in pts per drive, while the offense was 25th. That is with shitty QB, WR, and TE play and only thing the team did at a decent level was run the ball, but yeah it was all the OLs fault. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Codaxx

[Atticus 3,973]

The team would have been more successful last year if they could sustain more drives. The OL was a big reason why they couldn’t. The defensive issues were multiplied by the quick 3 and outs. 
There is plenty of meat left on the defensive bone, but there is a fair amount left to improve on the OL too

Edited May 4, 2022 by Atticus

[Codaxx 5,739]

16 minutes ago, Atticus said:

The team would have been more successful last year if they could sustain more drives. The OL was a big reason why they couldn’t. The defensive issues were multiplied by the quick 3 and outs. 
There is plenty of meat left on the defensive bone, but there is a fair amount left to improve on the OL too

Fair amount of improvement everywhere, but saying the 5 wins is almost solely on the OL is absurd. Defense was 90th in DFD rate (first down rate), but it was definitely not their fault they were on the field so much. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Codaxx

[Longhornlove 4,824]

OL last year as a whole was adequate. LT by itself in pass situations was a disaster while QB didn't help the cause either. I expect next season to be a significant improvement. The offense has the pieces to be very good. For most of last season we had one receiving threat, now it appears we have 3 legit threats not counting a threat at TE which is significant. Defenses are going to have a much more difficult time making this a one dimensional offense.

[Eggo 3,977]

Next we're going to say we're baking a cake

[GringoSalado 1,651]

47 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

cant believe how many times I see that sh!t. Defense is like 90th in pts per drive, while the offense was 25th. That is with shitty QB, WR, and TE play and only thing the team did at a decent level was run the ball, but yeah it was all the OLs fault. 

As much shit defense as we've seen you think we'd be connoisseurs of it and recognize last year's vintage for how special it truly was.

[JFKFC 4,879]

2 hours ago, GoldAppleCorps said:

An offensive line can't be thought of as five separate players.

Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment.

[LTtxfan 49,185]

 

[LTtxfan 49,185]

Thx for this @Hookem2147

Quote

Poster on 247 who attended a luncheon in San Antonio that Sarkisian spoke at. 

*I believe one of the WR's he's referencing is Hall since he isn't officially signed yet*

"Sark was the keynote speaker at a luncheon for the San Antonio Quarterback Club today at the San Antonio Country Club. We had the honor of listening to him speak for an hour. As he was addressing each position room, he said we are expecting 2 more additions to the WR room via the portal. He’s bullish on the young OT’s coming in and there’s a brand new NCAA rule that allows coaches on the field and to provide instruction during summer workouts which is going to be crutical for the young OT coming in. Sounds like he foresees two starting from the get go. Touched on the QB competition for a bit. I get the sense that Quinn is his guy. Most of the questions from the audience revolves around NIL and the transfer portal."

 

 

[LTtxfan 49,185]

 

[LTtxfan 49,185]

 

[LTtxfan 49,185]

 

[LTtxfan 49,185]

Thx for finding this @Hiphopopotamos

[LTtxfan 49,185]

 

[LTtxfan 49,185]

Thx for finding this @BurntOrange&White

[LTtxfan 49,185]

Cross-post..   Thanks for this Saty!!  🤘

Ian Boyd: How to add freshman to the Texas offensive line

Quote

Starting a freshman tackle may not be ideal but it’s not foreign to Texas or college football. The 2011 Texas Longhorns started true freshman Josh Cochran at left tackle and the right tackle was Trey Hopkins, a sophomore who’d started four games at guard the year before as a true freshman. The 2015 Longhorns started true freshman Connor Williams at left tackle. In 2017 they had to start Derek Kerstetter as a true freshman at right tackle and in 2018 he was replaced there by redshirt freshman Sam Cosmi.

None of those teams were excellent, but several of those players were really quite solid as first-year players and all of them ended up being good players save for Josh Cochran, who was derailed by injuries.

In the playoff era, there’s been one National Champion who started a true freshman on the line. Sean Pollard was Clemson’s right tackle in 2016. Another five champions had a second year player, either a redshirt freshman or sophomore, starting somewhere on the line. In 2015 Alabama cleared out the left side for Derrick Henry with sophomore tackle Cameron Robinson and redshirt freshman guard Ross Pierschbacher.

Texas isn’t winning the National Championship in 2022, but it’s not a disaster to start a truly elite freshman on the line and Kyle Flood hopes he has as many as two such players in this class. The question is how to fit them with the returning veterans.

Where is Texas adding elite talent?

There are two freshman O-linemen everyone is anticipating will find the field sooner or later in 2022, 5-stars Devon Campbell and Kelvin Banks. The overall On3 ratings for all the incoming players are quite impressive though.

•     Devon Campbell: 6-ft 3, 325 lbs 97.80
•     Kelvin Banks: 6-ft-5, 315 lbs 97.22
•     Neto Umeozulu: 6-ft-4, 285 lbs 94.42
•     Cameron Williams: 6-ft-5, 375 lbs 90.67
•     Malik Agbo: 6-ft-5, 329 lbs 89.25
•     Cole Hutson: 6-ft-5, 315 lbs 88.75
•     Connor Robertson: 6-ft-4, 296 lbs 88.55

As a general rule, recruiting rankings are basically a proxy for athleticism and pure measurables. The higher the score, the more natural athleticism you’ll find in a player. Texas is bringing in a number of guys with a ton of size and in some cases a massive amount of natural athleticism as well.

Beyond the obvious two, three other players stand out as having some “immediate impact” potential. There were times in the last cycle where I thought Neto Umeozulu was the purest tackle prospect in the state, later on I suspected Cameron Williams might have the highest upside for how easily he moves forwards or backwards at 350+ pounds. Cole Hutson is already on campus receiving instruction and looks much more comfortable and natural in pass protection than you would have expected for a guy who’s high school film featured a dominant run blocker.

Any of those three could potentially start at guard with an outside shot at tackle. Banks is an obvious tackle, and Campbell has a less clear projection. Campbell’s lack of height and ridiculous highlights as a pulling run blocker all scream guard, but his wide base, quickness, and long arms (81″ wingspan, like a 6-foot-11 person) could easily make him a tackle. Odds are Texas will start a freshman tackle and potentially also a freshman guard. Steve Sarkisian isn’t mincing any words either on the expectations.

“I think it’s pretty critical when you think about we get eight weeks in the summer, and we get two hours a week of on-field skill development. Sixteen hours is a lot of time to be able to be on the field with your players, and for us that’s critical, 1) for returners, but 2) for a lot of our newcomers. I think that it’s great timing for us obviously with the amount of linemen that we have coming in here that weren’t able to participate in spring practice that coach (Kyle) Flood can get his hands on and start working on some of the fundamentals and techniques needed to they’re prepared for fall camp.”

The new rules on summer coaching allowances will be key for Texas in setting up the freshmen to play early.

Building a starting five

The starting point for Texas this fall will be in determining who the best left tackle on the roster is. Spring showed the answer may be Hayden Conner, possibly Andrej Karic, but not Christian Jones or Jaylen Garth. Next up for Flood is determining whether Banks, Campbell, or another freshman is either better than Karic or Conner or close enough but with a higher upside. If he can figure that out before fall camp, more’s the better.

Hayden Conner has a case for being the best O-lineman on the team. Ideally he’d be put in a position where he can focus on one position to maximize his potential for the 2022 season. Instead, he’ll probably vacillate between guard and tackle based on which freshmen need to see the field and where. Next, Texas can either pair the best guard and tackle together to force defenses to adjust to them OR they could go another route and pair guards and tackles based on who needs help. For instance, Junior Angilau is going to be a major help to any tackle outside of him because he can tell him what to do every snap.

So do you pair Angilau with the best tackle? Or the one who needs him to tell them what to do? From what we’ve seen of Kyle Flood and with his emphasis on multiplicity over pure execution, I think the latter. Sark commented on this recently:

So the two main dominoes to consider are A) who’s the best tackle? and B) how do you pair freshmen with veterans? Let’s game out four scenarios for a sense of how this could go. Scenario one, no one can beat Conner at left tackle.

•     Left tackle: Conner
•     Left guard: Campbell/Hutson/etc
•     Center: Jake Majors
•     Right guard: Angilau
•     Right tackle: Jones/Banks/Campbell

Now you have an opening at guard left by Conner and right tackle still might see a freshman start, in which case Angilau could move to the right to help the weaker and potentially less experienced tackle.

Scenario two, Kelvin Banks (or Campbell or another freshman) is the best tackle on the team in the fall.

•     Left tackle: Banks
•     Left guard: Angilau
•     Center: Majors
•     Right guard: Conner
•     Right tackle: Jones

Angilau can help Banks know what to do and Conner is a great help to Jones on the right side. Scenario three, Banks is the top tackle and Devon Campbell is one of the best five players but he’s at his best at guard.

•     Left tackle: Banks
•     Left guard: Angilau
•     Center: Majors
•     Right guard: Campbell
•     Right tackle: Conner

Conner will be one of the five best so Jones heads to the bench. Pairing Campbell and Banks on the left side would be nice but Texas is probably a year away from getting there with scheme familiarity. In this lineup, both freshman are flanked by a veteran. Scenario four, the two best tackles on the team are Banks and Campbell.

•     Left tackle: Banks
•     Left guard: Angilau
•     Center: Majors
•     Right guard: Conner
•     Right tackle: Campbell

Now you have a massive pair of veteran guards and then sheer athleticism and length on the edges. This might be the highest upside line for Texas. There’s a lot of ways this could go, we’ll have to wait and see which of the freshmen emerge and how far up the pecking order their talent can take

 

[Royale with cheese 1,466]

OL eval and development is hard. Alabama's post-spring training depth chart shows both Brockermeyers running third string. Either they aren't as good as expected or 'Bama's so damn loaded they can't crack the two-deep. Not a knock on those guys, per se; I wanted them here so bad I could taste it, and I'd take them in the portal faster'n a cat can lick its ass. I guess we should keep in mind that OL procurement/composition is far from an exact science. 

[BurntOrange&White 39,931]

48 minutes ago, Royale with cheese said:

OL eval and development is hard. Alabama's post-spring training depth chart shows both Brockermeyers running third string. Either they aren't as good as expected or 'Bama's so damn loaded they can't crack the two-deep. Not a knock on those guys, per se; I wanted them here so bad I could taste it, and I'd take them in the portal faster'n a cat can lick its ass. I guess we should keep in mind that OL procurement/composition is far from an exact science. 

They suck

[LTtxfan 49,185]

1 hour ago, Royale with cheese said:

OL eval and development is hard. Alabama's post-spring training depth chart shows both Brockermeyers running third string. Either they aren't as good as expected or 'Bama's so damn loaded they can't crack the two-deep. Not a knock on those guys, per se; I wanted them here so bad I could taste it, and I'd take them in the portal faster'n a cat can lick its ass. I guess we should keep in mind that OL procurement/composition is far from an exact science. 

Fuck the Brocks...

 

(And with the exception of a few top guys, agree the toughest position to evaluate in CFB  recruiting is probably O-line -- it has a high bust rate.) 

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by LTtxfan

[Jkwellborn 6,699]

OL eval and development is hard. Alabama's post-spring training depth chart shows both Brockermeyers running third string. Either they aren't as good as expected or 'Bama's so damn loaded they can't crack the two-deep. Not a knock on those guys, per se; I wanted them here so bad I could taste it, and I'd take them in the portal faster'n a cat can lick its ass. I guess we should keep in mind that OL procurement/composition is far from an exact science. 

You know, if the current coaching staff hasn’t tried to somehow convince them to portal to Texas, maybe they aren’t as good as everyone had hoped or they don’t necessarily fit what the staff wants to do.

[LTtxfan 49,185]

 

[Nope 3,114]

On 5/13/2022 at 1:13 PM, LTtxfan said:

 

A week of practice and they saw enough lol tough

[futureman 22,457]

hocker’s an aggroid too. bummer. 

[Red Five 40,857]

Oh god they tried him at tackle didn't they.

[Reese Bennett 3,612]

Is the two hours per week a limit on players or coaches? In other words, can Flood coach individual players for two hours over several sessions or is Flood himself limited to two hours?

[SuckitKevin 920]

I think Connor and Banks have to be your tackles. I don’t love Majors at center because he gets pushed around a lot by bigger NT’s but he helps well and is agile enough to be a pretty good zone blocker( he’s our best option). That leaves the two guard spots to Angilau, Jones, and Campbell. Jones at either tackle spot would be a disaster, he is a terrible pass blocker especially on any inside moves but he run blocks well. I hope the staff considers moving him inside soon. Angilau is who he is, a good run blocker and an avg to below avg pass blocker. He is a mainstay and will probably hold a guard spot down. If Campbell comes in ready to play early, he should battle with Jones for a guard spot. This is how I hope it breaks down. In my gut, I think they’ll continue to trot out Jones at tackle until he gets our qb killed and the fans show up with torches and pitchforks.

[futureman 22,457]

36 minutes ago, SuckitKevin said:

I think Connor and Banks have to be your tackles. I don’t love Majors at center because he gets pushed around a lot by bigger NT’s but he helps well and is agile enough to be a pretty good zone blocker( he’s our best option). That leaves the two guard spots to Angilau, Jones, and Campbell. Jones at either tackle spot would be a disaster, he is a terrible pass blocker especially on any inside moves but he run blocks well. I hope the staff considers moving him inside soon. Angilau is who he is, a good run blocker and an avg to below avg pass blocker. He is a mainstay and will probably hold a guard spot down. If Campbell comes in ready to play early, he should battle with Jones for a guard spot. This is how I hope it breaks down. In my gut, I think they’ll continue to trot out Jones at tackle until he gets our qb killed and the fans show up with torches and pitchforks.

are you sure this is what we should do? perhaps you should email kyle flood and let him know. or tweet it at him. 

[GringoSalado 1,651]

#team pitchfork

[Farmer Vincent 43]

2 hours ago, futureman said:

are you sure this is what we should do? perhaps you should email kyle flood and let him know. or tweet it at him

You should email your asshole Futureman, tell it to loosen it's grip on that fist

[SuckitKevin 920]

2 hours ago, futureman said:

are you sure this is what we should do? perhaps you should email kyle flood and let him know. or tweet it at him. 

Perhaps you should fuck yourself.

[JFKFC 4,879]

23 minutes ago, SuckitKevin said:

Perhaps you should fuck yourself.

[futureman 22,457]

29 minutes ago, SuckitKevin said:

Perhaps you should fuck yourself.

I’ll be sure to let coach flood know, kevin. 

[LTtxfan 49,185]

23 hours ago, Reese Bennett said:

Is the two hours per week a limit on players or coaches? In other words, can Flood coach individual players for two hours over several sessions or is Flood himself limited to two hours?

 End of this video (10:40 mark), Bobby said coaches can be with players a total of 2hrs/wk coaching on the field,  and 2hrs/wk coaching in meetings.

 

So to answer your question, Flood has 2hrs/wk total coaching on the field to use how he wants.  (He can not have 2hr individual sessions for 4 or 5 players a week.)

[Hookem2147 21,241]

 

[Codaxx 5,739]

22 hours ago, SuckitKevin said:

I think Connor and Banks have to be your tackles. I don’t love Majors at center because he gets pushed around a lot by bigger NT’s but he helps well and is agile enough to be a pretty good zone blocker( he’s our best option). That leaves the two guard spots to Angilau, Jones, and Campbell. Jones at either tackle spot would be a disaster, he is a terrible pass blocker especially on any inside moves but he run blocks well. I hope the staff considers moving him inside soon. Angilau is who he is, a good run blocker and an avg to below avg pass blocker. He is a mainstay and will probably hold a guard spot down. If Campbell comes in ready to play early, he should battle with Jones for a guard spot. This is how I hope it breaks down. In my gut, I think they’ll continue to trot out Jones at tackle until he gets our qb killed and the fans show up with torches and pitchforks.

Not sure where this Connor love has come from. Only one player was responsible for a sack in the Spring game between Connors and Jones and it wasnt Jones. Jones did give up a pressure on an inside rush. That play ended with Card in the end zone on a 20 yard scramble, probably because it was a ridiculously undisciplined pass rush. Connor got a lot of help in the spring game with RBs and chips. Banks is the key. I did not see anyone on the field during the spring game that looked like a solid option at LT. 

[futureman 22,457]

Conner

[Longhornlove 4,824]

On 5/15/2022 at 10:38 AM, GringoSalado said:

#team pitchfork