Texas O-line talk

[LTtxfan 49,075]

2 hours ago, satyanash said:

 

Nice info @satyanash  

Kerstetter may really help the middle of the Texas OL in 2020...

[Goodman 3,273]

39 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Nice info @satyanash  

Kerstetter may really help the middle of the Texas OL in 2020...

I think he'll be the best Center here since Lyle. 

[Elmer_Fudd 22,149]

42 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Nice info @satyanash  

Kerstetter may really help the middle of the Texas OL in 2020...

Seems like Kerstetter could be a surprising day 2 pick in the draft if he keeps improving.  Do we need him more at Center or RT?  Seems like Center.

[Thiefery 4,974]

8 minutes ago, Elmer_Fudd said:

Seems like Kerstetter could be a surprising day 2 pick in the draft if he keeps improving.  Do we need him more at Center or RT?  Seems like Center.

We need him at Center .. I don't want to see us get killed through inside stunts the way Shack allowed us to last season.. Hopefully Kertsetter can get through to Angilou as well

[Goodman 3,273]

2 hours ago, Thiefery said:

We need him at Center .. I don't want to see us get killed through inside stunts the way Shack allowed us to last season.. Hopefully Kertsetter can get through to Angilou as well

He will not get through to Junior but unlike having shack next to vahe/junior, we will have a very smart center to help junior and the right side of line. I expect DK to be outstanding at Center. We're set at LT and C. Now Hand has to figure out the right side and hope Junior minimizes his meathead fb, no excuses. 

[Burt Macklin 19,000]

8 minutes ago, Goodman said:

He will not get through to Junior but unlike having shack next to vahe/junior, we will have a very smart center to help junior and the right side of line. I expect DK to be outstanding at Center. We're set at LT and C. Now Hand has to figure out the right side and hope Junior minimizes his meathead fb, no excuses. 

“Will not get through to Junior” and “Meathead fb” lol.
 

He was a second year OL who came from an all-running offense in HS. Junior’s a stud, and he was ahead of schedule last year. It takes time for guys to learn the position. He’s not just a meathead who’s never going to learn. 

[Goodman 3,273]

Just now, Burt Macklin said:

“Will not get through to Junior” and “Meathead fb” lol.
 

He was a second year OL who came from an all-running offense in HS. Junior’s a stud, and he was ahead of schedule last year. It takes time for guys to learn the position. He’s not just a meathead who’s never going to learn. 

We will find out but it all starts at the top. Herman coached 3 years of meathead fb, as did his staff and his players played like it. Would love to see Junior develop, if so then we will roll because it's all up to the OL. Shack and Vahe/Junior played not smart fb, perhaps that is acceptable language. When we see very intelligent players like Tope/Okafor play dumb fb, it's coaching. Perhaps our new OC will make it easier by being a good play caller that does not allow the D to read plays pre-snap. I'd love to be wrong because it's not been much fun having average/below average OL's.

[Carl Spackler 3,474]

WTF?  Angilau played very solid last season, esp. for a redshirt frosh.  The left side of the line (LT to C) this coming season should be very good, with Cosmi-Angilau-Kerstetter.

[Goodman 3,273]

6 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

WTF?  Angilau played very solid last season, esp. for a redshirt frosh.  The left side of the line (LT to C) this coming season should be very good, with Cosmi-Angilau-Kerstetter.

That should never matter at Texas, that is my point. If a FR starts here it should be because they are that good. People were saying things like this after Vahe and Shack's FR year. The floor needs to be raised and I do believe we are getting there but now it has to be proven on the field.

[Carl Spackler 3,474]

1 minute ago, Goodman said:

That should never matter at Texas, that is my point. If a FR starts here it should be because they are that good. People were saying things like this after Vahe and Shack's FR year. The floor needs to be raised and I do believe we are getting there but now it has to be proven on the field.

You did see the first clause of that sentence, right?  If it makes you feel more comfortable, toss out the second clause that you bolded.  Angilau was solid last season and should be even better this fall working between two very experienced players in Cosmi and Kerstetter.  

I'd be more concerned about the right side of the line, where we'll see two new starters (or, in the case of Okafor, someone who only has a handful of starts) trying to mesh together in a COVID-shortened amount of time.  The talent is there whether we're talking Okafor-Jones, Johnson-Jones, or some other combination at RG-RT.  But continuity, familiarity, and communication are critical to O-line play, and the right side will be dealing with a deficit in those areas due to the COVID shutdown.  That's partly why I won't be surprised at all if Okafor gets the nod at one of those spots, at least at the beginning.  The shutdown will place a premium on experience as teams try to get up to speed faster than usual. 

[Goodman 3,273]

Just now, Carl Spackler said:

You did see the first clause of that sentence, right?  If it makes you feel more comfortable, toss out the second clause that you bolded.  Angilau was solid last season and should be even better this fall working between two very experienced players in Cosmi and Kerstetter.  

I'd be more concerned about the right side of the line, where we'll see two new starters (or, in the case of Okafor, someone who only has a handful of starts) trying to mesh together in a COVID-shortened amount of time.  The talent is there whether we're talking Okafor-Jones, Johnson-Jones, or some other combination at RG-RT.  But continuity, familiarity, and communication are critical to O-line play, and the right side will be dealing with a deficit in those areas due to the COVID shutdown.  That's partly why I won't be surprised at all if Okafor gets the nod at one of those spots, at least at the beginning.  The shutdown will place a premium on experience as teams try to get up to speed faster than usual. 

Toss out the 2nd half of the sentence you wrote to make me feel more comfortable? lol.

We're not starting any true FR so I have little sympathy for below average play in year 3 of Hand and 4 of Herman regardless of what shitshow covid has created. Our OL play was below average last year, no good OL has games like what i witnessed vs. ou and baylor. Playing young guys or new guys is not acceptable as excuses. All that said, I expect us to have a great year.

[Carl Spackler 3,474]

4 minutes ago, Goodman said:

Toss out the 2nd half of the sentence you wrote to make me feel more comfortable? lol.

We're not starting any true FR so I have little sympathy for below average play in year 3 of Hand and 4 of Herman regardless of what shitshow covid has created. Our OL play was below average last year, no good OL has games like what i witnessed vs. ou and baylor. Playing young guys or new guys is not acceptable as excuses. All that said, I expect us to have a great year.

Well, you seemed to take exception to it, so . . .

I agree the O-line play was substantially below par against both OU and Baylor last season, and it's no coincidence Texas lost those games.  The O-line started off the '19 season nicely, then went through a period of malaise in the middle of the season, and then finished up strong against Tech and Utah.  They need to be more consistent as a unit this coming season.  

 

[futureman 22,441]

christian jones will be a 1st round pick in 2023

[victory88 5,663]

This years OL will be the best one at Texas in a long time.  Cosmi is a 1st round player if he keeps playing the way he is.  Kerstetter has played very well for us since his true freshman year and will have his name called on draft day.  Angilau is now in his 3rd year in the program and has a whole year of starting experience.  He has two nfl players next to him on the OL.  Both Angilau and Tyler Johnson have nfl size and talent at guard.  Let’s see if Hand and Yancy can continue to develop them.  I expect Johnson to take the next step this season and compete at RG with Okafor.  Okafor has been the biggest disappointment for me.  He’s a guy that has been given multiple opportunities.  I know we’ve asked him to play tackle when guard seems like his natural position but he gets abused regardless of where he is.  Still having a a 4th year OL competing for a spot isn’t the worst situation.  Now we get to RT.  If Christian Jones ,who has nfl size and athleticism, can take the next step... then we’re looking cooking baby!

Cosmi- Angilau- Kerstetter- Johnson- Jones

This is the OL I expect to see.  I also expect all 5 of these guys to play in the NFL if they can develop.  When was the last time Texas had this type of talent on the OL?  I’m not shy of criticizing Herman but I will give him credit.  He took us out of The OL hell hole Mack created 12 years ago.  It’s taken 3 head coaches and like 6 OL coaches to fix it over the last 12 years...

[Burt Macklin 19,000]

1 hour ago, victory88 said:

This years OL will be the best one at Texas in a long time.  Cosmi is a 1st round player if he keeps playing the way he is.  Kerstetter has played very well for us since his true freshman year and will have his name called on draft day.  Angilau is now in his 3rd year in the program and has a whole year of starting experience.  He has two nfl players next to him on the OL.  Both Angilau and Tyler Johnson have nfl size and talent at guard.  Let’s see if Hand and Yancy can continue to develop them.  I expect Johnson to take the next step this season and compete at RG with Okafor.  Okafor has been the biggest disappointment for me.  He’s a guy that has been given multiple opportunities.  I know we’ve asked him to play tackle when guard seems like his natural position but he gets abused regardless of where he is.  Still having a a 4th year OL competing for a spot isn’t the worst situation.  Now we get to RT.  If Christian Jones ,who has nfl size and athleticism, can take the next step... then we’re looking cooking baby!

Cosmi- Angilau- Kerstetter- Johnson- Jones

This is the OL I expect to see.  I also expect all 5 of these guys to play in the NFL if they can develop.  When was the last time Texas had this type of talent on the OL?  I’m not shy of criticizing Herman but I will give him credit.  He took us out of The OL hell hole Mack created 12 years ago.  It’s taken 3 head coaches and like 6 OL coaches to fix it over the last 12 years...

I still think we should’ve gone harder after a grad transfer OL, but we have enough promising young guys who should be ready to step up that we should be ok. 
 

Hookfin also impressed the staff last year, and Ghirmai, W. Tyler, and Moore are all third years, so they should at least be able to provide depth. 

[Goodman 3,273]

Hookfin is going to compete, he's here to play. Jones, Tyler, Johnson & Moore are going to compete. 

I'll be shocked and very nervous if Ghirmai plays here. I agree with Okafor and add Tope to biggest disappointments, they both look like NFL players but do not seem to have the mental capacity for the game. Not sure if that is coaching, they just do not have it in them or both.

[victory88 5,663]

Just now, Goodman said:

Hookfin is going to compete, he's here to play. Jones, Tyler, Johnson & Moore are going to compete. 

I'll be shocked and very nervous if Ghirmai plays here. I agree with Okafor and add Tope to biggest disappointments, they both look like NFL players but do not seem to have the mental capacity for the game. Not sure if that is coaching, they just do not have it in them or both.

I don’t think it’s coaching.  They have been under 3 different OL coaches and have been beaten out by younger players.  

[victory88 5,663]

With that said, good programs have veteran guys for depth.  .  If someone gets injured, it’s nice to have 2 guys that have nfl bodies with 4 years under the program as depth.

[Burt Macklin 19,000]

6 minutes ago, Goodman said:

Hookfin is going to compete, he's here to play. Jones, Tyler, Johnson & Moore are going to compete. 

I'll be shocked and very nervous if Ghirmai plays here. I agree with Okafor and add Tope to biggest disappointments, they both look like NFL players but do not seem to have the mental capacity for the game. Not sure if that is coaching, they just do not have it in them or both.

lulz. You need to quit trying to guess what our individual OL’s mental capacities are. Imade has horrible feet. He’s nowhere near having an NFL player’s skill set just because he’s strong. He was a mid to low 3-star for a reason, and he’s not a good fit for a zone blocking scheme at all. 
 

Okafor needs to get a serious opportunity at guard. Hand’s doing him a disservice always playing him at Tackle. He’s too short and has too slow of feet to hold up on the edge, but his skill set fits well at guard. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Burt Macklin

[Goodman 3,273]

7 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

lulz. You need to quit trying to guess what our individual OL’s mental capacities are. Imade has horrible feet. He’s nowhere near having an NFL player’s skill set just because he’s strong. He was a mid to low 3-star for a reason, and he’s not a good fit for a zone blocking scheme at all. 
 

Okafor needs to get a serious opportunity at guard. Hand’s doing him a disservice always playing him at Tackle. He’s too short and has too slow of feet to hold up on the edge, but his skill set fits well at guard. 

Send Imade back to the DL then, that's where slow footed OL who are not taught how to legally hold should be.

I hope you're right about Okafor. I look forward to seeing new faces on the OL.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Goodman

[ClubWhatever 12,105]

4 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

 

Okafor needs to get a serious opportunity at guard. Hand’s doing him a disservice always playing him at Tackle. He’s too short and has too slow of feet to hold up on the edge, but his skill set fits well at guard. 

Unfortunately he was our next best option at T whenever Kerstetter had to move to center, and he just wasn’t as good as Braun or Angilau. 

[LYNH 2]

Cosmi-Junior-Ghurmai-Johnson-Moore

[lemonandaturd 4,285]

26 minutes ago, LYNH said:

Cosmi-Junior-Ghurmai-Johnson-Moore

Who the hell is Ghurmai?  

[futureman 22,441]

1 hour ago, LYNH said:

Cosmi-Junior-Ghurmai-Johnson-Moore

[Eggo 3,976]

3 hours ago, LYNH said:

Cosmi-Junior-Ghurmai-Johnson-Moore

You left off the best returning RT in the country who is widely projected to start at C? Did you even try? 

[Red Five 40,725]

Predicting injuries and/or covid? I dunno. Kerstetter, Okafor, and Jones all on the bench. 

[LYNH 2]

I meant Kerstetter at RT

[LYNH 2]

22 hours ago, lemonandaturd said:

Who the hell is Ghurmai?  

Grad transfer (joking, you know who I meant)

Edited May 24, 2020 by LYNH

[LYNH 2]

Edited. You can bet on this though might be position swaps
 

Cosmi-JR-Ghirmai-Johnson-Kerstetter

[Goodman 3,273]

34 minutes ago, LYNH said:

Edited. You can bet on this though might be position swaps
 

Cosmi-JR-Ghirmai-Johnson-Kerstetter

If Ghirmai starts or has to play, we're properly fucked.

[thepop 4,409]

Herman said last year the plan was to move Angilau to Center this year. I assume because Ghirmai hasnt amounted to much and they want to keep Kerstetter at other positions. We’ll see if they stick to it.

[LYNH 2]

1 hour ago, Goodman said:

If Ghirmai starts or has to play, we're properly fucked.

Then what’s your starting line? I’ve heard Ghirmai is doing work in the weight room, and he was one of the more highly touted recruits with an impressive offer sheet. I haven’t found much of anything online about who is stepping up minus a positive story about Ghirmai and fans’ negative reviews of Okafor’s play, though he might be better at guard. If you have anything to share please do.

[sith_horn 2,374]

  

Recent tweet by Herb Hand implies Kerstetter at center. Mentions him leading the line which is how they referred to Shackelford last season.

 

 

[victory88 5,663]

53 minutes ago, LYNH said:

Then what’s your starting line? I’ve heard Ghirmai is doing work in the weight room, and he was one of the more highly touted recruits with an impressive offer sheet. I haven’t found much of anything online about who is stepping up minus a positive story about Ghirmai and fans’ negative reviews of Okafor’s play, though he might be better at guard. If you have anything to share please do.

Keep in mind,  everyone’s opinion of Ghirmai is of him messing up snaps when he was an early enrollee playing center for the first time during the spring game when he should have been going to prom.  Since then, people have assumed that he sucks.  From all the reports, the coaches like how he is progressing.  We don’t need him another year if Kerstetter plays center. That would give him 3 years under Yancy and and Hand.  I’m sure he will be fine.  We’ve gotten so used to throwing true freshman into the fire that we’ve forgotten it takes years for most OL to develop.  Hell Elijah Rodriguez didn’t contribute his first 3 years here and people had him as a transfer candidate every offseason.  He became a starter and was one of the better OL during the season he played.  

[Jkwellborn 6,670]

  
Recent tweet by Herb Hand implies Kerstetter at center. Mentions him leading the line which is how they referred to Shackelford last season.
 
 

I’m not sure how much I’d read into Kerstetter starting out at center based off of that tweet. Shackleford was the oldest most experienced lineman last year. This season that’s Kerstetter, right?

[sith_horn 2,374]

  

5 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

I’m not sure how much I’d read into Kerstetter starting out at center based off of that tweet. Shackleford was the oldest most experienced lineman last year. This season that’s Kerstetter, right?

I grant that is another possible interpretation. But that language was consistently used by Herman as well with Shackelford and think it has as much to do with the Center setting the line's protection as it does with seniority. Ghirmai will need to have come a long ways to be ready. Maybe he has and sure hope so. Someone needs to for depth. He needed to develop strength as much as he did snapping technique. I'll be surprised if anyone else plays center. Kertstetter played it well last season when Shackelford was out.

[HtownHorn 14,606]

5 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

I’m not sure how much I’d read into Kerstetter starting out at center based off of that tweet. Shackleford was the oldest most experienced lineman last year. This season that’s Kerstetter, right?

The OL's leader is always the center. He sets the line calls. 

[Hiphopopotamos 20,867]

So is the thought that Willie Tyler isn’t ready to compete for that RT spot?  I don’t hear many talking about him as an option. He came in with 4 years to play 3 and RS last season. 

[Jkwellborn 6,670]

The OL's leader is always the center. He sets the line calls. 

You know there’s more to being a leader than setting the calls though. That’s what I’m talking about. I’m not saying he won’t be center though.

[Goodman 3,273]

 

[CosmoDog 298]

2 hours ago, Goodman said:

 

Damn. That dude can move.

[HtownHorn 14,606]

33 minutes ago, CosmoDog said:

Damn. That dude can move.

We have solved the TE dilemma.

[Tex Long 4,363]

11 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

We have solved the TE dilemma.

If he can catch...

[Coach pop a bitch 5,459]

I forgot about hookfin. It seems like there is solid competition for right tackle when practice starts. Fuck covid I need football now.

[victory88 5,663]

Yeah, I’m really excited about Jones and Hookfin.  I also remember quite a few people comparing Reese Moore to Connor Williams during his recruitment.  Obviously their talent isn’t the same but if Reese can put on good weight while maintaining his athleticism, we’ll have our fair share of athletic tackles for Hand to develop.

[Coach pop a bitch 5,459]

2 minutes ago, victory88 said:

Yeah, I’m really excited about Jones and Hookfin.  I also remember quite a few people comparing Reese Moore to Connor Williams during his recruitment.  Obviously their talent isn’t the same but if Reese can put on good weight while maintaining his athleticism, we’ll have our fair share of athletic tackles for Hand to develop.

I also see people automatically sliding Tyler Johnson inside. Kid was highly recruited and I don't think he came to play guard. Competition is good. 

[victory88 5,663]

4 minutes ago, Coach pop a bitch said:

I also see people automatically sliding Tyler Johnson inside. Kid was highly recruited and I don't think he came to play guard. Competition is good. 

I hope we don’t make the same mistake with Johnson as we did with Okafor.  Johnson has the ceiling to be an elite guard.  He may make a decent tackle as well but I hope we play him inside.  Junior was also evaluated as a tackle when we recruited him but he’s a damn good guard and he won’t be job as a RS frosh.  I hope we do the same with Johnson.

[LTtxfan 49,075]

On 5/23/2020 at 11:23 AM, Goodman said:

Hookfin is going to compete, he's here to play. Jones, Tyler, Johnson & Moore are going to compete. 

I'll be shocked and very nervous if Ghirmai plays here. I agree with Okafor and add Tope to biggest disappointments, they both look like NFL players but do not seem to have the mental capacity for the game. Not sure if that is coaching, they just do not have it in them or both.

 

[LTtxfan 49,075]

 

[LTtxfan 49,075]

https://247sports.com/college/texas/article/texas-longhorns-football-patience-pay-off-ongoing-offensive-line-build-tom-herman-herb-hand-samuel-cosmi-derek-kerstetter-147509545/

 

Texas looking for patience to pay off in ongoing O-line build   Jeff Howe 247STAFF       May 25th

(Includes comments about the quality of ohio state o-line while Herman coached there along with RB Zeke Elliott)

Quote

After Tom Herman’s first season as Texas head coach, there was nowhere for the offensive line to trend other than upward.

The combination of D'Onta Foreman leaving school a year early and declaring for the 2017 NFL Draft and All-American tackle Connor Williams playing in only five regular-season games in 2017 due to a knee injury didn’t help matters. Nevertheless, the Longhorns finishing 95th nationally in rushing offense (139.6 yards per game), averaging the fewest yards per rushing attempt by any Texas team since 2002 (3.6) while ranking 103rd in the country in sacks allowed (2.62 per game) and 110th in tackles for loss allowed (6.92 per game) in Herman’s debut left a lot of room for improvement.

In a recent virtual chat with Chuck Carlton of the Dallas Morning News, Herman examined how far the Longhorns have come in the trenches since then and how close they are to getting to where they want to be. Herman’s thoughts started with reflecting on the last national championship-winning line he coached when he was Ohio State’s offensive coordinator in 2014 and what the landscape looked like in Columbus when he arrived on the scene as a member of Urban Meyer’s initial staff.

“Our first year there, the players we inherited at Ohio State, I think three of them were drafted,” Herman said.

Herman's correct on the three draft picks. What's more impressive is the fact that the group of draftees Herman coached in 2012 doesn’t include Andrew Norwell of the Jacksonville Jaguars, who developed into an All-Pro guard with the Carolina Panthers as an undrafted free agent.

“Obviously, you move into the (2016 first-round pick) Taylor Decker’s of the world, who we recruited and wound up being a first-rounder,” Herman said. “We also had a guy named (running back) Ezekiel Elliott back there who was pretty good at covering up some deficiencies, if we had any in the offensive line.”

Of the linemen Herman inherited from the Charlie Strong regime, Williams ended the program’s decade-long drought of no offensive linemen getting drafted in 2018 when the Dallas Cowboys took him in the second round as an early entrant. Zach Shackelford was a two-time first-team All-Big 12 selection under Herman before signing with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as an undrafted free agent following the 2020 draft in April.

Other than Denzel Okafor, who’s back in the fold as a fifth-year senior after flirting with transferring out of the program before ultimately deciding to return, the 2020 offensive line will be made up of players recruited entirely by Herman’s organization.

Samuel Cosmi (a projected first-round pick in the 2021 draft) and Derek Kerstetter were members of a transition class after the Longhorns flipped from Houston and Oklahoma State, respectively, ahead of National Signing Day in 2017. Junior Angilau was the highest-rated offensive line signee from the first wave of prospects Herman and Co. spent a full cycle recruiting to the Forty Acres in 2018.

The team’s three returning starters provide an impressive foundation from which offensive line coach Herb Hand can build out the rest of the starting lineup whenever the Longhorns get back on the field amid the coronavirus pandemic. Spearheaded by an experienced trio boasting a combined 66 career starts, Herman’s optimism comes through when he talks about how Texas feels “really good” regarding the current state of affairs along the offensive line.

“Kerstetter will be a four-year starter,” Herman said. “He was thrown into the fire as a true freshman and played admirably, he’s developed fine to the point where we feel like he’ll get an opportunity to play in the NFL, too.”

When the dust settles on the coming season, Hand’s ability to reach his charges as a teacher along with what Yancy McKnight’s strength program has done to develop the program’s young linemen who will be in the mix for the two open starting positions will determine the ultimate success (or failure) of the group.

In Herman’s tenure, Texas has only had to start one true freshman up front when Kerstetter logged 10 starts in 2017. Herman’s first season marked the sixth time in an eight-year stretch where the Longhorns had a true freshman offensive lineman start at least one game, a vicious cycle the current regime has been able to break by redshirting all of their prep offensive line signees over the last two seasons.

As a result, third-year sophomores Rafiti Ghirmai, Christian Jones and Reese Moore will be counted on to step up after getting two full seasons to learn the ropes and not get thrown into the fire as so many young Longhorn linemen who came before them experienced. The same was true for Tyler Johnson and Isaiah Hookfin in the 2019 signing class, who along with junior college transfer Willie Tyler got to sit back, watch and not be pressed into duty as newcomers last season.

The staff’s ability to manage the position from a development standpoint and get longstanding issues within the program headed in a position direction prop up Herman’s confidence in where Texas is headed up front offensively.

“That’s such a developmental position,” Herman said. “Very rarely do you see freshmen or redshirt freshmen or true sophomores starting at that position and unfortunately we’ve had to, but we’ll reap the benefits of that this year with Cosmi being a three-year starter and Kerstetter being a four-year starter [and] Angilau being a two-year starter.

“We feel like we’ll have some pretty good position battles for those other two spots.”

 

Dallas Morning News article "virtual chat" mentioned above...

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/texas-longhorns/2020/05/15/qa-with-texas-longhorns-coach-tom-herman-what-it-will-take-to-dethrone-oklahoma-which-80s-movies-hes-showing-his-kids-and-more/

Edited May 27, 2020 by LTtxfan