Texas O-line talk

[LTtxfan 48927]

Thought I saw a few wide rushers get in, but still a little good news for some Texas O-linemen... 

 

[Slacks 6791]

Crossposting, because it belongs here...

This was posted on the tweeter earlier:

  Quote

HornSports
@HornSports
4h
Steve Sarkisian mentions they want to sign 5 OL in this recruiting class, but he wants them to be high quality players and not just bodies. He also points to the fact that Texas only signed 2 OL last year so the opportunity is there for guys to come in and make an impact early.
 

We are *FAR AS Ffffffffff* away from having the OL (and DL) we need. It started in 2006 & 2007 when we actually had some decent recruits, but a lot of transfers and injuries... then 2008 on was... terrible, as you will see. Why, because we've recruited and/or developed terribly.  If Sark is going to win, he's going to have to do what that tweet says...  for the next 5 years.

Pour yourself a water and get on down with the "analysis" of our OL signees for the last 15 years, and notice what it takes to build a good OL.

2006 - THREE. two good takes and one bad take... but all left the program within a year.

• J'Marcus Webb - started as a freshman, then transferred to Navarro JC. Can't recall - grades or weed? NFL Player
• Buck Burnett - kicked off the team for being an overt racist. Sells windows
• Roy Watts - transferred to UH after his freshman year as a redshirt.  NFL Player.

2007 - FOUR: good takes. one transfer. one bust. two NFL picks.

• Tray Allen - 5 star. No 11 high school prospect in the nation. Always injured and considered one of the biggest busts of all time for it.
• Michael Huey - 4 year OG. Captain. NFL Draft.
• Aundre McGaskey - played a few games in 2008. Transferred.
• Kyle Hix - 4 year player.  NFL Draft.

2008 - TWO: piccardwtfisthisshit.jpg - two good kids who graduated. this was the beginning of the end.  how is this your OL recruiting class?!?!

• Mark Buchanan - barely saw the field.
• Luke Poehlmann - 275 pound OT? Sure.  OK. He played. JAG

2009 - FOUR: One player. 3 career backups.

• Mason Walters - 3 year starter.  Very good.
• Thomas Ashcraft - backup. grad xfer to SMU. meh.
• Paden Kelley - (RIP) good kid who graduated. backup/rotational. JAG
• Garrett Porter - good kid who graduated. backup/rotational. JAG

2010 - TWO: We got an OG and a C and that's it?!?!? At least they were good at playing football.

• Trey Hopkins - #1 ranked OG in the nation. Was a very good player. UFA. Still in the league.
• Dominic Espinosa - Very good player.  3 year starter... blew his ankle out as a Sr... first game in Strong's first season.

So... Let's take a look.... in the 5 seasons starting 2006, we took 15 OL and got:

• 5 starters on the OL.
• 5 Xfers
• 5 guys that were "guys"

This is why Mack Brown started struggling... only good OL we had were Walters, Hopkins, Espi.. and Hopkins and Espi in 2010... they were young guys. That (and "POWER RUN GAME!!!!) is how you go 5-7 after going to the BCS championship the prior year... 

2011 - FIVE: 1 Good OG.  2 Average at best. 1 injury bust. 1 injury ending career. No depth from 2008, 2009... the tsunami is pulling back...

• Sedrick Flowers - High 4 star... 5 years in program / 2 year starter.  Above average to good player. 
• Garrett Greenlea - injured after one game or something or other... done.
• Josh Cochran - was a starter at OT for 2 season... shoulder injuries ended his career as a Junior.
• Marcus Hutchins - 5 year player that started his Jr season, but not his Sr season...  contributor, but JAG.
• Taylor Doyle - 5 year player / 2 year starter at C.  Average. Acceptable until Espinosa was ready to take over.

2012 - FOUR: CHARLIE WICKLINE IN DA HOUSE!!!!  3 dudes played a handful of games and got Wicklined when he got here...  One solid Juco transfer starter.  At this point, we didn't know we were really in trouble down the road... but that's how it goes.

• Kennedy Estelle - Started 8 games as a Soph. Smoked weed every day. Suspended as a Junior. Strong/Wickline Xfer.
• Curtis Riser - redshirted. one year as backup. xfer
• Camrhon Hughes - Tore his ACL in HS.  Played 6 games as a RS-SO, then xfer.
• Donald Hawkins - juco transfer.  started 2 seasons.  All Big 12.  NFL then CFL.

2013 - FIVE: 4 out of 5 players xfer'd. Thanks, Perk. But now we are in a world of hurt. Depth is non-existent...

• Darius James - played 6 games. Xfer.
• Kent Perkins - 4 year player. 3 year starter. 2nd team all Big 12. NFL then CFL
• Jake Raulerson - in the words of Luka, "YOU'RE TOO SMALL!!!" xfer.
• Rami Hammad - never played a snap.  Xfer to BU and became a stalker.
• Desmond Harrison - big Juco xfer... barely played in his one season. xfer. NFL

2014 - THREE: Let's only take 3 OL that will probably never play...

• Terrell Cuney - Played in 12 games in 3 seasons. JAG. Good kid Shoplifter who graduated...
• Alex Anderson - barely saw the field. JAG. Good kid who graduated.
• Elijah Rodriguez - 5 year... contributor. injured. one year starter. All Big 12 HM.  Average.

2015 - SIX: OK! Somebody recognized and at least tried to start building some depth, but when you have to start 2 FR-HS, that means you're not good... and the rest of the dudes were non-factors. 2 starters. 

• Patrick Vahe - 4 year starter. All Big 12 HM (3x). Freshman AA. Very good, but not great.
• Connor Williams - All Big 12 2T (injured), All American, All Big 12 HM, Freshman AA.  2nd round pick (coming off injury). NFL Starter (still).
• Brandon Hodges - Juco transfer in... started 9 games.... grad transfer out (after academic struggles)
• Buck Major - never played.  medical retirment.
• Garrett Thomas - Played in one game. Quit.
• Tristan Nickelson - JUCO xfer. Depth. Played 3 years. Average to JAG.

2016 - SIX... Let's try again... six recruits and one is just now starting make any impact in 2021!!! 2 starters, 1 depth, 2 xfers, 1 medical

• Patrick Hudson - played 2 games. injured. medical retirement. 
• Jean Delance - played 2 games. xfer to UF where he is a 3 year starter as a Sr. and their 'most athletic blocker'. (dammit.)
• JP Urquidez - 3 year JAG. Xfer to Texas State.
• Denzel Okafor - 6 seasons in program. Starter last season and this season... until he blew out his knee (dammit). Above average... maybe.
• Tope Imade - 6 seasons in program. Depth. starter only because Okafor is down. Average.
• Zach Shackelford - 4 year / 40 game starter...  Pre-Season AA, All Big 12 1T, All Big 12 2T, All Big 12 HM & Freshman AA. Very good player.

So... in the 2nd six seasons of recruiting since 2006, we've had eight full-time starters.  The rest were xfers or JAGs... that's six years of wandering the desert at OL. What do you notice? I'll tell you what I notice: on average, it takes us SIX OL to get TWO decent starters. Most guys will become JAG/depth/xfer. If you only get a couple of JAGs out of each class, and nothing else, you CAN NOT WIN FOOTBALL GAMES in the future.  We're in the future now.  Let's return to the program.

2017 - TWO: Two craps. But wait...  Ah-Ha!... something worked.  We DEVELOPED two (3 star!) guys into starters! Maybe there is hope!

• Samuel Cosmi - 4 years in program. Freshman AA, Big 12 Offensive FOY HM, All Big 12 2T, Big 12 OL of the year HM, All Big 12 1T, Current NFL 
• Derek Kerstetter - 5 years in program. 5 year Covid starter. All Big 12 HM (Sr).  Current starter.  Very Good player.

2018 -  FIVE: players again... Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. We did get two starters out of this group... but did we really get two starters out of this group? Angilau can stay.

• Junior Angilau - 4 years in program. 3 seasons as a starter. Current Starter. Has 3 more years of eligibility. 
• Reese Moore - never saw the field. xfer to Abilene for this season
• Rafiti Ghirmai - 4 years in program. depth/ST. JAG. Currently 3rd on depth chart at C.
• Mikey Grandy - JUCO - medically retired in 2018.
• Christian Jones - pisses me off. 4 years in program. 2 year starter(!?!?) Current starting LT. PROVE ME WRONG MFER!!!!

2019 - FOUR: players (3 HS + 1 JUCO) - 2 transfers, 1 injury, 1 illness... no contributions. ZERO.

• Tyler Johnson - started Alamo Bowl... but not on the depth chart. "Mystery illness". Please develop, former elite OL prospect.
• Isaiah Hookfin - has played 1 game.  Shoulder surgery... Please recover and develop.
• Javonne Shepherd - xfer to JUCO
• Willie Tyler - juco xfer in... Syracus xfer out.

2020 - FOUR players. One starter and some depth... TBD

• Jake Majors - Current starting C. Above average so far.  Should develop well.
• Jaylen Garth - project. not on depth chart. TBD.
• Logan Parr - Currently backup C. TBD.
• Andrej Karic - Currently backup LT. Needs to get bigger stronger faster. TBD.

2021 - TWO players. transitional. nothing to see here.

• Hayden Conner - Current backup RG. Has good size and (apparent) temperament for development.
• Max Merril - I will be pleasantly surprised or really sad if he ever plays.

And there you have it.  The last five years produced another five starters so far... We're still way behind.

This is why we don't win. You can't recruit / develop / produce FIVE STARTERS EVERY FIVE YEARS and win.  At a minimum, we need two guys every year to develop into GOOD starters over time, and the depth guys to be guys who are on their way to becoming starters. We cannot have placeholders, because injuries, transfers, lack of judgment, whatever will zap a guy or two every year.

I don't know who has the NIL deal for the OL, but if we want to win, we might want to put a machine in place to get some guys into the portal (coming and going) and get the best OL in the NATION - not just Texas - from teams that are balanced on offense.

 

Thank you for attending my SnacksTalk.

[GringoSalado 1651]

We should prolly sign 15 or 20.

 

edit: that leaves 5 slots for edge/LB guys.

Edited November 2, 2021 by GringoSalado

[gmr548 16463]

On 10/31/2021 at 8:23 AM, Pam Cummings said:

Meanwhile at Alabama

 

 

We play this team in six games.

[victory88 5654]

59 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

We play this team in six games.

Our entire fan base gets to witness just how far behind we are from being an elite team… you know Saban is going to want to stick it up Sarks ass and end his career.

[Burt Macklin 18988]

You just have to laugh at how many times Flood has shown he doesn’t understand his personnel. Kerstetter always should have been the LT on this line, especially with all of Sark’s long PA plays that ask the LT to pass block on an island. 
 

Then Okafor goes down and Flood has the brilliant idea to move Kerstetter to LG, even though he’s proven he’s a poor interior OL. Plus that meant we started two Tackles who couldn’t pass block against OU’s edge rushers instead of just one so he managed to downgrade two positions on the OL after one injury. 
 

Then he decides to move Angilau to LG and put in Imade at RG. Maybe the only thing this OL could do reasonably well all year was block OZ to the right, but now you’ve got Imade at RG and Jones at LT, both of whom have bricks for feet, so we now can’t run OZ well to either side.
 

Flood inherited a bad OL and every time he tinkers with it, he manages to make it worse. 

[Slacks 6791]

12 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Kerstetter always should have been the LT on this line, especially with all of Sark’s long PA plays that ask the LT to pass block on an island. 
 

Then Okafor goes down and Flood has the brilliant idea to move Kerstetter to LG, even though he’s proven he’s a poor interior OL. Plus that meant we started two Tackles who couldn’t pass block against OU’s edge rushers instead of just one so he managed to downgrade two positions on the OL after one injury. 
 

Then he decides to move Angilau to LG and put in Imade at RG. Maybe the only thing this OL could do reasonably well all year was block OZ to the right, but now you’ve got Imade at RG and Jones at LT, both of whom have bricks for feet, so we now can’t run OZ well to either side.

Yes.  These moves have been crazy questionable...  Maybe we were worried about being too predictable running OZ right... so we created balance. Really bad balance.

[Burt Macklin 18988]

1 hour ago, Snacks said:

Yes.  These moves have been crazy questionable...  Maybe we were worried about being too predictable running OZ right... so we created balance. Really bad balance.

The move of Kerstetter and Angilau to LG makes me think he knows Jones is a massive liability and is trying to protect him with a better pass blocking LG, but Jones will still get beat no matter what, so there’s no reason to sacrifice one of the few things your line does well for that. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Burt Macklin

[satyanash 14276]

On 10/31/2021 at 11:51 AM, Tex48 said:

Before the season, I didn't think it could be possible for our o-line to be worse than 2017's.  How do yall think this o-line compare's to 2017?

Probably better than 2017, and much better than the 2014 abortion. Worse than all the others though.

Last week was actually one of their better efforts. The two most critical sacks given up were on Bijan Robinson, not on the O-line.

[XYZ 2154]

16 hours ago, Snacks said:

Crossposting, because it belongs here...

This was posted on the tweeter earlier:

  Quote

HornSports
@HornSports
4h
Steve Sarkisian mentions they want to sign 5 OL in this recruiting class, but he wants them to be high quality players and not just bodies. He also points to the fact that Texas only signed 2 OL last year so the opportunity is there for guys to come in and make an impact early.
 

We are *FAR AS Ffffffffff* away from having the OL (and DL) we need. It started in 2006 & 2007 when we actually had some decent recruits, but a lot of transfers and injuries... then 2008 on was... terrible, as you will see. Why, because we've recruited and/or developed terribly.  If Sark is going to win, he's going to have to do what that tweet says...  for the next 5 years.

Pour yourself a water and get on down with the "analysis" of our OL signees for the last 15 years, and notice what it takes to build a good OL.

2006 - THREE. two good takes and one bad take... but all left the program within a year.

• J'Marcus Webb - started as a freshman, then transferred to Navarro JC. Can't recall - grades or weed? NFL Player
• Buck Burnett - kicked off the team for being an overt racist. Sells windows
• Roy Watts - transferred to UH after his freshman year as a redshirt.  NFL Player.

2007 - FOUR: good takes. one transfer. one bust. two NFL picks.

• Tray Allen - 5 star. No 11 high school prospect in the nation. Always injured and considered one of the biggest busts of all time for it.
• Michael Huey - 4 year OG. Captain. NFL Draft.
• Aundre McGaskey - played a few games in 2008. Transferred.
• Kyle Hix - 4 year player.  NFL Draft.

2008 - TWO: piccardwtfisthisshit.jpg - two good kids who graduated. this was the beginning of the end.  how is this your OL recruiting class?!?!

• Mark Buchanan - barely saw the field.
• Luke Poehlmann - 275 pound OT? Sure.  OK. He played. JAG

2009 - FOUR: One player. 3 career backups.

• Mason Walters - 3 year starter.  Very good.
• Thomas Ashcraft - backup. grad xfer to SMU. meh.
• Paden Kelley - (RIP) good kid who graduated. backup/rotational. JAG
• Garrett Porter - good kid who graduated. backup/rotational. JAG

2010 - TWO: We got an OG and a C and that's it?!?!? At least they were good at playing football.

• Trey Hopkins - #1 ranked OG in the nation. Was a very good player. UFA. Still in the league.
• Dominic Espinosa - Very good player.  3 year starter... blew his ankle out as a Sr... first game in Strong's first season.

So... Let's take a look.... in the 5 seasons starting 2006, we took 15 OL and got:

• 5 starters on the OL.
• 5 Xfers
• 5 guys that were "guys"

This is why Mack Brown started struggling... only good OL we had were Walters, Hopkins, Espi.. and Hopkins and Espi in 2010... they were young guys. That (and "POWER RUN GAME!!!!) is how you go 5-7 after going to the BCS championship the prior year... 

2011 - FIVE: 1 Good OG.  2 Average at best. 1 injury bust. 1 injury ending career. No depth from 2008, 2009... the tsunami is pulling back...

• Sedrick Flowers - High 4 star... 5 years in program / 2 year starter.  Above average to good player. 
• Garrett Greenlea - injured after one game or something or other... done.
• Josh Cochran - was a starter at OT for 2 season... shoulder injuries ended his career as a Junior.
• Marcus Hutchins - 5 year player that started his Jr season, but not his Sr season...  contributor, but JAG.
• Taylor Doyle - 5 year player / 2 year starter at C.  Average. Acceptable until Espinosa was ready to take over.

2012 - FOUR: CHARLIE WICKLINE IN DA HOUSE!!!!  3 dudes played a handful of games and got Wicklined when he got here...  One solid Juco transfer starter.  At this point, we didn't know we were really in trouble down the road... but that's how it goes.

• Kennedy Estelle - Started 8 games as a Soph. Smoked weed every day. Suspended as a Junior. Strong/Wickline Xfer.
• Curtis Riser - redshirted. one year as backup. xfer
• Camrhon Hughes - Tore his ACL in HS.  Played 6 games as a RS-SO, then xfer.
• Donald Hawkins - juco transfer.  started 2 seasons.  All Big 12.  NFL then CFL.

2013 - FIVE: 4 out of 5 players xfer'd. Thanks, Perk. But now we are in a world of hurt. Depth is non-existent...

• Darius James - played 6 games. Xfer.
• Kent Perkins - 4 year player. 3 year starter. 2nd team all Big 12. NFL then CFL
• Jake Raulerson - in the words of Luka, "YOU'RE TOO SMALL!!!" xfer.
• Rami Hammad - never played a snap.  Xfer to BU and became a stalker.
• Desmond Harrison - big Juco xfer... barely played in his one season. xfer. NFL

2014 - THREE: Let's only take 3 OL that will probably never play...

• Terrell Cuney - Played in 12 games in 3 seasons. JAG. Good kid Shoplifter who graduated...
• Alex Anderson - barely saw the field. JAG. Good kid who graduated.
• Elijah Rodriguez - 5 year... contributor. injured. one year starter. All Big 12 HM.  Average.

2015 - SIX: OK! Somebody recognized and at least tried to start building some depth, but when you have to start 2 FR-HS, that means you're not good... and the rest of the dudes were non-factors. 2 starters. 

• Patrick Vahe - 4 year starter. All Big 12 HM (3x). Freshman AA. Very good, but not great.
• Connor Williams - All Big 12 2T (injured), All American, All Big 12 HM, Freshman AA.  2nd round pick (coming off injury). NFL Starter (still).
• Brandon Hodges - Juco transfer in... started 9 games.... grad transfer out (after academic struggles)
• Buck Major - never played.  medical retirment.
• Garrett Thomas - Played in one game. Quit.
• Tristan Nickelson - JUCO xfer. Depth. Played 3 years. Average to JAG.

2016 - SIX... Let's try again... six recruits and one is just now starting make any impact in 2021!!! 2 starters, 1 depth, 2 xfers, 1 medical

• Patrick Hudson - played 2 games. injured. medical retirement. 
• Jean Delance - played 2 games. xfer to UF where he is a 3 year starter as a Sr. and their 'most athletic blocker'. (dammit.)
• JP Urquidez - 3 year JAG. Xfer to Texas State.
• Denzel Okafor - 6 seasons in program. Starter last season and this season... until he blew out his knee (dammit). Above average... maybe.
• Tope Imade - 6 seasons in program. Depth. starter only because Okafor is down. Average.
• Zach Shackelford - 4 year / 40 game starter...  Pre-Season AA, All Big 12 1T, All Big 12 2T, All Big 12 HM & Freshman AA. Very good player.

So... in the 2nd six seasons of recruiting since 2006, we've had eight full-time starters.  The rest were xfers or JAGs... that's six years of wandering the desert at OL. What do you notice? I'll tell you what I notice: on average, it takes us SIX OL to get TWO decent starters. Most guys will become JAG/depth/xfer. If you only get a couple of JAGs out of each class, and nothing else, you CAN NOT WIN FOOTBALL GAMES in the future.  We're in the future now.  Let's return to the program.

2017 - TWO: Two craps. But wait...  Ah-Ha!... something worked.  We DEVELOPED two (3 star!) guys into starters! Maybe there is hope!

• Samuel Cosmi - 4 years in program. Freshman AA, Big 12 Offensive FOY HM, All Big 12 2T, Big 12 OL of the year HM, All Big 12 1T, Current NFL 
• Derek Kerstetter - 5 years in program. 5 year Covid starter. All Big 12 HM (Sr).  Current starter.  Very Good player.

2018 -  FIVE: players again... Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. We did get two starters out of this group... but did we really get two starters out of this group? Angilau can stay.

• Junior Angilau - 4 years in program. 3 seasons as a starter. Current Starter. Has 3 more years of eligibility. 
• Reese Moore - never saw the field. xfer to Abilene for this season
• Rafiti Ghirmai - 4 years in program. depth/ST. JAG. Currently 3rd on depth chart at C.
• Mikey Grandy - JUCO - medically retired in 2018.
• Christian Jones - pisses me off. 4 years in program. 2 year starter(!?!?) Current starting LT. PROVE ME WRONG MFER!!!!

2019 - FOUR: players (3 HS + 1 JUCO) - 2 transfers, 1 injury, 1 illness... no contributions. ZERO.

• Tyler Johnson - started Alamo Bowl... but not on the depth chart. "Mystery illness". Please develop, former elite OL prospect.
• Isaiah Hookfin - has played 1 game.  Shoulder surgery... Please recover and develop.
• Javonne Shepherd - xfer to JUCO
• Willie Tyler - juco xfer in... Syracus xfer out.

2020 - FOUR players. One starter and some depth... TBD

• Jake Majors - Current starting C. Above average so far.  Should develop well.
• Jaylen Garth - project. not on depth chart. TBD.
• Logan Parr - Currently backup C. TBD.
• Andrej Karic - Currently backup LT. Needs to get bigger stronger faster. TBD.

2021 - TWO players. transitional. nothing to see here.

• Hayden Conner - Current backup RG. Has good size and (apparent) temperament for development.
• Max Merril - I will be pleasantly surprised or really sad if he ever plays.

And there you have it.  The last five years produced another five starters so far... We're still way behind.

This is why we don't win. You can't recruit / develop / produce FIVE STARTERS EVERY FIVE YEARS and win.  At a minimum, we need two guys every year to develop into GOOD starters over time, and the depth guys to be guys who are on their way to becoming starters. We cannot have placeholders, because injuries, transfers, lack of judgment, whatever will zap a guy or two every year.

I don't know who has the NIL deal for the OL, but if we want to win, we might want to put a machine in place to get some guys into the portal (coming and going) and get the best OL in the NATION - not just Texas - from teams that are balanced on offense.

 

Thank you for attending my SnacksTalk.

That is fucking depressing.

[Slacks 6791]

1 hour ago, Burt Macklin said:

The move of Kerstetter and Angilau to LG makes me think he knows Jones is a massive liability and is trying to protect him with a better pass blocking LG, but Jones will still get beat no matter what, so there’s no reason to sacrifice one of the few things your line does well for that. 

Yes. Originally I thought, "Maybe he's trying to help Jones..."

Then the whole thing started looking worse because our run game died.

[927 E. 41st 1124]

Some great points, Snacks. I believe there is also overlap between our O line problems and our constantly changing staff.

I think the Herman offense, while predictable (and constantly exposing your QB to injury/not a system that will get you anywhere) managed to hide the O lines deficiencies much better than our current playbook. Now that we are trying to play a style of football that the OUs and Bamas of the world win with, the components that are lacking are BADLY exposed and fixing it will take time. That's not a message most want to hear.

[Slacks 6791]

52 minutes ago, XYZ said:

That is fucking depressing.

Imagine staring at it and working on it for hours (in between actual work). 

[gmr548 16463]

On 11/1/2021 at 8:42 AM, BurntOrange&White said:

 There is no reason Imade should be playing over Conner, especially going forward with this season. Get Conner the experience so he can roll into next year not being inexperienced. 

Burning Conner's redshirt is not worth whatever marginal gain might come of swapping him for Imade. And it might not be a gain at all. If you're hell set on benching Imade, put in Parr or Johnson.

The only thing that can make this season worse is not qualifying for a bowl, which costs you two weeks of practice and gives opposing coaches the ammo of an outright losing record with which to negative recruit. Trotting out green OL to take their lumps is a way to increase the odds of that happening.

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

6 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Burning Conner's redshirt is not worth whatever marginal gain might come of swapping him for Imade. And it might not be a gain at all. If you're hell set on benching Imade, put in Parr or Johnson.

The only thing that can make this season worse is not qualifying for a bowl, which costs you two weeks of practice and gives opposing coaches the ammo of an outright losing record with which to negative recruit. Trotting out green OL to take their lumps is a way to increase the odds of that happening.

I’m pretty sure he’s appeared in 5 games already. 
 

trotting out Imade who is just as green and has no future is stupid, plain and simple. Get the freshmen in there, let him get experience and learn that way he rolls into next year not being “green” still. 

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Love the replays of kerstetter getting his ass pushed into the qb when he has generally good position 

[hookem48 4631]

Said it before the season, when Kerstetter is your "leader" on the oline you are beyond fucked

[vtaenz 601]

Is Flood the real deal or not? Was Bama's oline good because of Flood or because they had insane talent?
Is Flood good and our scheme is absolute shit?
My point is, this oline looks worse each week, I'm not seeing improvement. Or maybe I am and it's just not apparent. I guess maybe we aren't blowing assignments like we were against Arkansas? We're just getting beat straight up.

[Atticus 3919]

2 hours ago, vtaenz said:

Is Flood the real deal or not? Was Bama's oline good because of Flood or because they had insane talent?
Is Flood good and our scheme is absolute shit?
My point is, this oline looks worse each week, I'm not seeing improvement. Or maybe I am and it's just not apparent. I guess maybe we aren't blowing assignments like we were against Arkansas? We're just getting beat straight up.

Bama's OL looks worse this year. Hard to say.

[hookem48 4631]

2 hours ago, vtaenz said:

Is Flood the real deal or not? Was Bama's oline good because of Flood or because they had insane talent?
Is Flood good and our scheme is absolute shit?
My point is, this oline looks worse each week, I'm not seeing improvement. Or maybe I am and it's just not apparent. I guess maybe we aren't blowing assignments like we were against Arkansas? We're just getting beat straight up.

They keep trying different combos, it doesn't matter, there's nothing else to try, they just suck.

[HtownHorn 14446]

2 hours ago, vtaenz said:

Is Flood the real deal or not? Was Bama's oline good because of Flood or because they had insane talent?
Is Flood good and our scheme is absolute shit?
My point is, this oline looks worse each week, I'm not seeing improvement. Or maybe I am and it's just not apparent. I guess maybe we aren't blowing assignments like we were against Arkansas? We're just getting beat straight up.

What improvement are you looking for when the opposing defense doesn't have to worry about defending 10 yards beyond the LOS? When Card came in, it looked like ISU adjusted because they weren't sure if he was capable of completing passes down the field. Once he overthrew Worthy the ISU defense adjusted and the offense didn't do anything else of significance the rest of the game, because they knew he was incapable of completing those passes.

Edited November 7, 2021 by HtownHorn

[LTtxfan 48927]

9 hours ago, hookem48 said:

Said it before the season, when Kerstetter is your "leader" on the oline you are beyond fucked

THERE IS NO UPPERCLASSMEN LEADERSHIP ON THIS TEAM...  

FUCK

[LTtxfan 48927]

 

[Thatguy 8478]

On 11/2/2021 at 12:37 PM, Snacks said:

Imagine staring at it and working on it for hours (in between actual work). 

   Thanks for putting that on paper. This is why I've been soaping boxing that our recruiting rankings are false. We've lost so much to attrition and bad evals, and not just on the line. A lot of people don't take the time to go look, so that was very helpful. We will be better on the line next year, but the second someone goes down we are right back where we started again due to lack of depth.

  As far as the mysterious moves on the O-line go, I think Flood has to pick his poison. No move and you can run OZ to the right, which teams have adjusted to and shut down over the course of a game, but you get free interior rushers on your QB. The other you partially shore up the free interior rushers, but struggle across the board in the run game. The move hasn't worked because Casey seems officially shell-shocked, even though he had a better pocket to work with to start the game.

[Slacks 6791]

17 hours ago, Thatguy said:

   Thanks for putting that on paper. This is why I've been soaping boxing that our recruiting rankings are false. We've lost so much to attrition and bad evals, and not just on the line. A lot of people don't take the time to go look, so that was very helpful. We will be better on the line next year, but the second someone goes down we are right back where we started again due to lack of depth.

  As far as the mysterious moves on the O-line go, I think Flood has to pick his poison. No move and you can run OZ to the right, which teams have adjusted to and shut down over the course of a game, but you get free interior rushers on your QB. The other you partially shore up the free interior rushers, but struggle across the board in the run game. The move hasn't worked because Casey seems officially shell-shocked, even though he had a better pocket to work with to start the game.

The move hasn't worked because the shit doesn't work...  Card came in and was immediately chased off to the right.

I said it in game 1... which we won decidedly with Card...  I said this OL was going to get him killed... Sark figured that shit out against Arkansas and said, "fuck that. i dont want this dude broken before I try to fix him..."  (That, and Casey seemed to be able to make shit work.)

Now, with film, defenses are laughing at how terrible we are on OL and they are doing whatever they want...  Bijan has gone from Heisman to "oh shit, here they come" while getting his chest blown open...  Casey probably only has one rib left...  RoJo is like, "Fuck it, I can get 3 yards."

Jones still starts. We all thought Karic would be ok, but he's worse (too light in the ass) and can't hold up at any spot.  Shit is just bad. This season is a Bo Davis

[LTtxfan 48927]

 

[dcar00 14023]

I know folks bagged on Okafor but losing him at TCU was pretty big.  probably as bad as losing Jones on D.  Okafor at least had 5 years in the program and he allowed us to keep our line that had run through spring in the same spots.  

I still think Flood should be able to work some things out if he's the coach he is supposed to be.  we are getting worse not better.

Edited November 12, 2021 by dcar00

[futureman 22411]

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

I still think Flood should be able to work some things out if he's the coach he is supposed to be.

maybe, maybe not. if bill callahan is our OL coach since last spring I still don’t think we’re beating people in the trenches. 

[dcar00 14023]

Just now, futureman said:

maybe, maybe not. if bill callahan is our OL coach since last spring I still don’t think we’re beating people in the trenches. 

i'm not talking about "beating" people in the trenches, I'm talking about improving instead of devolving and not looking like ass.

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

8 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

I know folks bagged on Okafor but losing him at TCU was pretty big.  probably as bad as losing Jones on D.  Okafor at least had 5 years in the program and he allowed us to keep our line that had run through spring in the same spots.  

I still think Flood should be able to work some things out if he's the coach he is supposed to be.  we are getting worse not better.

I still have no clue why we haven't moved onto Conner at RG to develop him and get him game reps for next season. Imade is a waste of time and space.

[Thatguy 8478]

41 minutes ago, Snacks said:

The move hasn't worked because the shit doesn't work...  Card came in and was immediately chased off to the right.

I said it in game 1... which we won decidedly with Card...  I said this OL was going to get him killed... Sark figured that shit out against Arkansas and said, "fuck that. i dont want this dude broken before I try to fix him..."  (That, and Casey seemed to be able to make shit work.)

Now, with film, defenses are laughing at how terrible we are on OL and they are doing whatever they want...  Bijan has gone from Heisman to "oh shit, here they come" while getting his chest blown open...  Casey probably only has one rib left...  RoJo is like, "Fuck it, I can get 3 yards."

Jones still starts. We all thought Karic would be ok, but he's worse (too light in the ass) and can't hold up at any spot.  Shit is just bad. This season is a Bo Davis

   You are right about the light in the ass thing. Majors, Karic and a couple others were listed at 280 coming in but mysteriously they suddenly are listed at over 3 bills. Bullshit. We were at the Tech game, alumni side, up close. There is no way those dudes are over 300. They look small. Jones looks the part but he plays in quicksand. Junior looks right too. Tech's D-line looked more imposing than our O-line. Think about that for a minute. After seeing that up close I tempered my expectations for the season. With that line, and no QB who can make shit happen off script, we were always going to struggle. I didn't think 4 losses in a row struggle, but here we are.

  Question is Snacks, can that even be shored up in a single offseason?

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

On 11/7/2021 at 12:31 AM, Atticus said:

Bama's OL looks worse this year. Hard to say.

The Bill O’Brien touch cannot be ignored. 

[Atticus 3919]

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I still have no clue why we haven't moved onto Conner at RG to develop him and get him game reps for next season. Imade is a waste of time and space.

Imade is better right now, and they are trying to win as much as they can right now to show a better product for potential recruits/transfers.

I imagine we will see more youth getting involved if we make a bowl game.

[HtownHorn 14446]

1 hour ago, Snacks said:

The move hasn't worked because the shit doesn't work...  Card came in and was immediately chased off to the right.

I said it in game 1... which we won decidedly with Card...  I said this OL was going to get him killed... Sark figured that shit out against Arkansas and said, "fuck that. i dont want this dude broken before I try to fix him..."  (That, and Casey seemed to be able to make shit work.)

Now, with film, defenses are laughing at how terrible we are on OL and they are doing whatever they want...  Bijan has gone from Heisman to "oh shit, here they come" while getting his chest blown open...  Casey probably only has one rib left...  RoJo is like, "Fuck it, I can get 3 yards."

Jones still starts. We all thought Karic would be ok, but he's worse (too light in the ass) and can't hold up at any spot.  Shit is just bad. This season is a Bo Davis

For all the consternation about the OL, the QB position is by far the biggest problem on this team. Until you fix that problem Texas ain't winning shit.

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

3 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

For all the consternation about the OL, the QB position is by far the biggest problem on this team. Until you fix that problem Texas ain't winning shit.

A good OL makes average QB look better

[HtownHorn 14446]

2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

A good OL makes average QB look better

An competent QB makes a shitty OL competent. Since the QB and center are the only two players that handle the ball on every offensive play, minus a few wild cat touches, maybe getting a competent QB should be the primary goal. No one comes to a team to play with an elite OG.

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

1 minute ago, HtownHorn said:

An competent QB makes a shitty OL competent. Since the QB and center are the only two players that handle the ball on every offensive play, minus a few wild cat touches, maybe getting a competent QB should be the primary goal. No one comes to a team to play with an elite OG.

Yeah sure for throwing, but a shit OL won’t allow you to consistently run the ball either. oL is far more important 

[Thatguy 8478]

15 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

A good OL makes average QB look better

  Very true. However, if you cannot punish teams for blitzing your shit O-line its going to be a long year. Baylor game. Linebacker comes on a delayed blitz. Bijan Fucking Robinson is working to the flat with nary a defender with 15-20 yards of him. You dump that there and they think twice about bringing a guy after Bijan torches them for 30. Casey never thinks to go there. (I think) A couple plays right before the slant TD to Moore, we have a receiver outside, K-Rob at H-back, and Brewer back there too. Sark draws up a play where the receiver goes deep, K-Rob runs a wheel same side, and Brewer runs to the flat same side. We caught them blitzing which meant the safety had to come downhill to defend one of the second two options. If Casey sees that he hits K-Rob and he likely walks into the endzone as the safety had a bad angle on a player with a lot of speed. Instead Casey dumps to Brewer and the safety, who is flying up from 12 yards deep, tackles him for no gain. That's how it is right now. We suck on the line, and defenses are taking advantage of it, but we can't punish anyone for doing it. It's hard to watch.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Thatguy

[Tex Long 4326]

Guys either make the plays, or they don't. If they don't, there few good responses, depending on the why of the lack of execution.

Guys that are not capable, need to be evaluated to see if they're physically or mentally unable, or simply undersized or not understanding the concepts. Can they get strong enough and fast enough? Don't rush to shitcan them unless they can't learn and grow.

The ones who appear able but still don't perform need to be looked at for either no fucks givgen, or intractable stupidity. Cases of either of those need to be shown the door, as in portal.

Replacements of portalese outbound need to be made aware of NIL money available for successful transfers. Hell, if we have scholly space, we shouldn't wait for portalese inbound, let's get a program in place to find ways to approach such players and get going. 

[Slacks 6791]

4 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

 

Some people talk about it. Some people be about it.

[Slacks 6791]

4 hours ago, dcar00 said:

I know folks bagged on Okafor but losing him at TCU was pretty big.  probably as bad as losing Jones on D.  Okafor at least had 5 years in the program and he allowed us to keep our line that had run through spring in the same spots.  

I still think Flood should be able to work some things out if he's the coach he is supposed to be.  we are getting worse not better.

He was our best OL. That says a lot... (some I wish it didn't say.)

[Slacks 6791]

3 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I still have no clue why we haven't moved onto Conner at RG to develop him and get him game reps for next season. Imade is a waste of time and space.

We were saying the same shit about Karic after Week 2... then he got in and got pushed around like he was on skates...  Let Conner get right. No FR-HS at all.

[Slacks 6791]

3 hours ago, Thatguy said:

   You are right about the light in the ass thing. Majors, Karic and a couple others were listed at 280 coming in but mysteriously they suddenly are listed at over 3 bills. Bullshit. We were at the Tech game, alumni side, up close. There is no way those dudes are over 300. They look small. Jones looks the part but he plays in quicksand. Junior looks right too. Tech's D-line looked more imposing than our O-line. Think about that for a minute. After seeing that up close I tempered my expectations for the season. With that line, and no QB who can make shit happen off script, we were always going to struggle. I didn't think 4 losses in a row struggle, but here we are.

  Question is Snacks, can that even be shored up in a single offseason?

Is it possible? Maybe.  Can it happen here?  Nope... Not unless you get 3 real starters from the portal and 3 more depth players...  and nobody gets hurt.

OL takes years to develop (size, strength, cohesiveness, mental acuity...)  Yes, you can throw a FR-HS badass in with good Jrs and Srs and make it work, but in our case, we need to patiently tear the whole thing down and rebuild it properly.  If we took TEN 5* OL this season, and they were the full rotation, we'd still get our shit pushed in next season, because they're 18/19 year old dudes...

For one offseason to change the whole offense, we have to hope the S&C program can get Christian Jones moving better... (possible, but unlikely), get our young guys A LOT stronger with some semblance of mobility, and our injured guys to come back and contribute.  Jake Majors needs 30 pounds of muscles. Angilau is on track but needs to keep growing. Karic needs 40 pounds of muscle. Conner probably needs to get stronger to deal with grown ass men (he will.) He is not going to just pancake 240 pound DL like he did at Katy.  Johnson and Hookfin are MIA.

Again...  this is who is (likely) on campus next season,  assuming none of them portal out... (heh, right.):

2018 -  Will Ghirmai even contribute? (No. He will Portal)

• + Junior Angilau - 4 years in program. 3 seasons as a starter. Current Starter. Has 3 more years of eligibility. 
• - Rafiti Ghirmai - 4 years in program. depth/ST. JAG. Currently 3rd on depth chart at C.
• - Christian Jones - pisses me off. 4 years in program. 2 year starter(!?!?) Current starting LT. PROVE ME WRONG MFER!!!!

2019 - will either of these dudes recover and contribute?

• - Tyler Johnson - started Alamo Bowl... but not on the depth chart. "Mystery illness". Please develop, former elite OL prospect.
• - Isaiah Hookfin - has played 1 game.  Shoulder surgery... Please recover and develop.

2020 

• + Jake Majors - Current starting C. Above average so far.  Should develop well.
• Jaylen Garth - project. not on depth chart. TBD.
• Logan Parr - Currently backup C. TBD.
• Andrej Karic - Currently backup LT. Needs to get bigger stronger faster. TBD.

2021 

• Hayden Conner - Current backup RG. Has good size and (apparent) temperament for development.
• Max Merril - I will be pleasantly surprised or really sad if he ever plays.

We have ELEVEN OL for next season... and it's possible that three will never play here again...  the highest rated dude on this list (Tyler Johnson) may be a medical. We thought he'd be a starter this year and he still isn't cleared. His classmate, Hookfin had shoulder surgery, and was already too light, so he won't have a major impact.  Ghirmai should be in the portal already.

Unless our OL evaluation and development really jumps to another level, we will not make the jump.  It takes 6 players to make 2 good starters (because injuries and failure to develop) two to three years later.  We have a GIGANTIC GAPING... hole... in our OL development program.

Thank you for attending my muthafuckin TedTalk

[Slacks 6791]

I was considering not drinking tonight...  this thread... I don't know why I can't just walk away.

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

1 hour ago, Snacks said:

We were saying the same shit about Karic after Week 2... then he got in and got pushed around like he was on skates...  Let Conner get right. No FR-HS at all.

Counterpoint - A&M who is starting two and have gotten better every week since they’ve started. Both playing tougher  positions at center and left tackle. Imade is literally a waste of space as he won’t be here next year. 

[LTtxfan 48927]

4 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Counterpoint - A&M who is starting two and have gotten better every week since they’ve started. Both playing tougher  positions at center and left tackle. Imade is literally a waste of space as he won’t be here next year. 

Yeah I noticed the  mid-season change to play two freshmen on the aggy OL. 

Hayden needs to play more vs Kansas... 

[hookem48 4631]

13 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Counterpoint - A&M who is starting two and have gotten better every week since they’ve started. Both playing tougher  positions at center and left tackle. Imade is literally a waste of space as he won’t be here next year. 

saw their freshman center 40 yards downfield blocking on a td run, we don't sign those recruits at oline.

[hookem48 4631]

18 hours ago, Snacks said:

The move hasn't worked because the shit doesn't work...  Card came in and was immediately chased off to the right.

I said it in game 1... which we won decidedly with Card...  I said this OL was going to get him killed... Sark figured that shit out against Arkansas and said, "fuck that. i dont want this dude broken before I try to fix him..."  (That, and Casey seemed to be able to make shit work.)

Now, with film, defenses are laughing at how terrible we are on OL and they are doing whatever they want...  Bijan has gone from Heisman to "oh shit, here they come" while getting his chest blown open...  Casey probably only has one rib left...  RoJo is like, "Fuck it, I can get 3 yards."

Jones still starts. We all thought Karic would be ok, but he's worse (too light in the ass) and can't hold up at any spot.  Shit is just bad. This season is a Bo Davis

you guys were warned by more than a few of us.

[Codaxx 5588]

14 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Counterpoint - A&M who is starting two and have gotten better every week since they’ve started. Both playing tougher  positions at center and left tackle. Imade is literally a waste of space as he won’t be here next year. 

A&M offense is no better than the Texas offense. It’s actually ranked lower in FEI. The difference is they have an elite defense, so the offense can be patient. They don’t have to worry about having three 3 and outs and giving up 21 pts. 

[Hookem2147 20908]

14 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Counterpoint - A&M who is starting two and have gotten better every week since they’ve started. Both playing tougher  positions at center and left tackle.

Yeah, well Bryce Foster and Reuben Fatheree were top 150 recruits who were physically ready to play early. 

Hayden Connor shouldn’t even be sniffing the field at this stage of his career regardless of the teams record and Max Merril is probably just happy to be on scholarship. Thanks Herb!