Texas O-line talk

[HtownHorn 14604]

4 hours ago, Katfid54 said:

Meh.  This is all true.  But we were completely schematically incompetent last year.  We couldn't even get our assignments right.  Houston's offensive lines were huge disasters, too, and their offense was saved only by Greg Ward's ability to make off-schedule plays.

Warehime is a bad OL coach.

UH OL also suffered a lot of injuries, they started at least 10 different groupings in 2 seasons. It's hilarious, the Warehime hate, considering our 2 best OL were both eval'd and recruited by Warehime at UH.

Edited October 9, 2018 by HtownHorn

[Katfid54 8594]

1 minute ago, HtownHorn said:

UH OL also suffered a lot of injuries, they started at least 10 different groupings in 2 seasons.

We had a lot of injuries last year, too, but have had basically none so far this year.

Weird.

I wonder if there's some kind of common denominator.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Katfid54

[HtownHorn 14604]

Just now, Katfid54 said:

We had a lot of injuries last year, too, but have had basically none so far this year.

Weird.

I wonder if there's some kind of common denominator.

Yes bad luck. It's what happens in football in the trenches.

[Katfid54 8594]

1 minute ago, HtownHorn said:

Yes bad luck. It's what happens in football in the trenches.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/myopia

[HtownHorn 14604]

1 minute ago, Katfid54 said:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/myopia

That applies to you more than me.

[Katfid54 8594]

Just now, HtownHorn said:

That applies to you more than me.

Nice--the old "rubber and glue" response.

It is unimaginable to me that you're going to die on the hill supporting Derek Warehime as a good OL coach.  But the internet is dark and full of terrors.

[Tired of Lurking 637]

5 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

So is there any talk of Cosmi as a candidate for 1st/2nd Team All B12?

Nah, let's not get carried away. He's a shoe-in for Big 12 Freshman team though.

[El Hornarino 371]

5 hours ago, GoldAppleCorps said:

Shack's holding at the end of the game left we with a question....

What would prevent us from gaining yards over and over by having our OL deliberately hold their opponent, probably getting a penalty, but always keeping the clock running against the 25 second play clock until the game was killed off?

I made the joke to the people I was watching the game with that holding over and over was the mensa plan to run the clock without having to get first downs.

But in all seriousness, the reason this wouldn't work for perpetuity is that if you hold in the endzone it is a safety.

[El Hornarino 371]

double post, sorry

Edited October 9, 2018 by El Hornarino

[gmr548 16558]

Shack's holding at the end of the game left we with a question.
We were trying to kill the clock, which had like 5 minutes still left. We had four downs to play with, so we could kill a little over 2 minutes just standing there if we did nothing.
We ran a play. We gained yards. Shack held. OU accepted the penalty. We moved back, but the down stayed the same (duh!) and the clock kept running!
What would prevent us from gaining yards over and over by having our OL deliberately hold their opponent, probably getting a penalty, but always keeping the clock running against the 25 second play clock until the game was killed off?
This is obviously very unsporting behavior, but it would put the defensive coaches in a position of either accepting the penalty and keeping the clock running, or declining the penalty and accepting whatever gain the RB managed to generate from a blatantly holding OL.

Well, holding is called at the spot so as you continue to back yourself up half that distance the defense probably finds a way to get two points and the ball either through a negative play or an endzone hold. Also, holding has to be really blatant to get called in this conference. Theoretically it could work I guess.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Katfid54 8594]

You guys obviously aren't familiar with Zeno's paradox.

No matter where the drive starts, eventually, the penalty will start being assessed as half the distance to the goal.  So long as you coach the player to ensure they're holding at the line of scrimmage, it will be impossible for the hold to occur in the end zone.

[Jkwellborn 6670]

Ball has to be out of the end zone when the penalty occurs too.

[GoldAppleCorps 617]

16 minutes ago, El Hornarino said:

I made the joke to the people I was watching the game with that holding over and over was the mensa plan to run the clock without having to get first downs.

But in all seriousness, the reason this wouldn't work for perpetuity is that if you hold in the endzone it is a safety.

I'm hoping that, if your intent is to hold blatantly, you could at least do it while shoving your defender backwards. That should keep you out of the end zone.

There's gotta be a flaw in my logic, otherwise Mike Leach would have tried it already.

[stork642 4498]

4 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

UH OL also suffered a lot of injuries, they started at least 10 different groupings in 2 seasons. It's hilarious, the Warehime hate, considering our 2 best OL were both eval'd and recruited by Warehime at UH.

Maybe he's good at evaluating recruits but just sucks as a coach.  

Edited October 10, 2018 by stork642

[Magus Ossis 2784]

3 hours ago, Katfid54 said:

You guys obviously aren't familiar with Zeno's paradox.

No matter where the drive starts, eventually, the penalty will start being assessed as half the distance to the goal.  So long as you coach the player to ensure they're holding at the line of scrimmage, it will be impossible for the hold to occur in the end zone.

Reminds me of the one about the mathematician and the physicist in hell with the engineer.

[LTtxfan 49075]

5 hours ago, Katfid54 said:

We had a lot of injuries last year, too, but have had basically none so far this year.

Weird.

I wonder if there's some kind of common denominator.

Knock on Wood....

Shack has missed games due to injury

[Digdogger 1343]

10 hours ago, Machinator said:

That’s 1 point per cm of height for Kyler

[JOSEYWALES66 1799]

Has anybody heard any updates on the freshman OL?  Last year there were lots of rumors of how well Cosmi was practicing but I haven’t read anything about freshman this year. 

[Tired of Lurking 637]

Angilau was pimped during camp, iirc. 

[DeweyCox 366]

11 hours ago, Machinator said:

Let that be a lesson to everyone.

1+5=6

2+3+4=9

That’s 3 points difference. Like 48-45.

[LTtxfan 49075]

11 minutes ago, JOSEYWALES66 said:

Has anybody heard any updates on the freshman OL?  Last year there were lots of rumors of how well Cosmi was practicing but I haven’t read anything about freshman this year. 

Here's what I read elsewhere before season started....

All 4 reshaping their bodies

1) Angilau.... stronger at run blocking, working on pass protection may see action late this year & preserve RS

2) Ghirmai.... Strength & Conditioning and working on technique.... RS

3) Jones..... Really young (think A17) and potential  OT, lots of work on skills... RS

4) Moore.... Athletic like Cosmi, strength & Conditioning, skills & technique.... RS

 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

5 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Here's what I read elsewhere before season started....

All 4 reshaping their bodies

1) Angilau.... stronger at run blocking, working on pass protection may see action late this year & preserve RS

2) Ghirmai.... Strength & Conditioning and working on technique.... RS

3) Jones..... Really young (think A17) and potential  OT, lots of work on skills... RS

4) Moore.... Athletic like Cosmi, strength & Conditioning, skills & technique.... RS

 

We're still pretty short over the long term at OL. You need a two deep, and we're losing three starters this year alone. I hope that Hand can take some of the ones who didn't do well under Warehime and make them serviceable. Seems like we have about a 50% hit rate on OL.

[LTtxfan 49075]

48 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

We're still pretty short over the long term at OL. You need a two deep, and we're losing three starters this year alone. I hope that Hand can take some of the ones who didn't do well under Warehime and make them serviceable. Seems like we have about a 50% hit rate on OL.

Valid Stuff.... OL for 2019 is Concerning

Okafor, Imade, Urquidez, & Hudson are the older guys that (cross your fingers) help provide some depth for 2019.  Like you mentioned for 2019 only Shack, Cosmi, and Kerstetter returning OL with time as starters.  

Then of course the 4 RS Frosh of Angilau, Jones, Ghirmai, and Moore.

Seems like for 2019 Season, at least 2 more experienced OL will need to come from JUCO or Grad Transfer ranks.....

Edited October 10, 2018 by LTtxfan

[Thetexashammer 1062]

2 get injured, 1 transfers, three suck. Not sure that gives us 8-10 reliable guys that we need. Prefer to have at least three absolute physical studs starting. We used to fill the NFL with big bodies. Concern troll is concerned.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Thetexashammer

[Tired of Lurking 637]

If we take no grad transfers and Patrick Hudson doesn't medically retire:

LT - Cosmi, Moore
LG - Hudson, Angilau
C - Shackelford, Kerstetter
RG - Kerstetter, Imade, Ghirmai
RT - Okafor, Urquidez, Jones

In other words, we need a JUCO or grad-transfer. At least one (preferably on the inside, and who has some center experience). I'd be pleased with that starting five if they can stay healthy, but depth would be troublesome.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Tired of Lurking

[Machinator 32098]

JUCO and grad transfer options will emerge later.

[sushihorn 3233]

OU's defense may be a steaming pile but Gallimore is still a big space eating DL at 330 lbs.  One of the keys to the rushing attack was to get movement against this guy with a double team on inside runs.  If you watch the first drive you'll see the Texas OL drive him 5-6 yards off the LOS twice on the opening drive.  On the first play (after the penalty) Gallimore is lined up on Vahe, either head up or inside shade, it's hard to tell from the youtube video.  The double team of Vahe and Shackleford drives him straight back allowing Sam to run behind them and make a cut off the block.

On 1st and goal from the 9, the double team is by Vahe and Anderson.  The run is to the left and they push #90 well to the right and about 3 yards deep.  Watson picks up 4 yds.  On the next play the double is Shack and Kerstetter, which drives Gallimore to the goal line.  Beck misses the kick out block on #18 and he turns the play back inside.  It would have been a 3 yd gain but the play is negated by illegal formation penalty.

If you're going to run inside on a 3-man line, you have to get movement on the nose.  Texas did just that to #90 Gallimore with double teams on the opening drive.  It set the tone for the game and a day where the aggressive Sooner defense would get a whole 3 TFLs, only one of which came in the running game.

[LTtxfan 49075]

SIAP....

Any idea how OL rotations were handled in BlowU game??  Just curious how Rodriguez/Kerstetter were rotated during the game. 

Watching replay, seems like Kerstetter was playing RG a lot...

Edited October 12, 2018 by LTtxfan

[LTtxfan 49075]

13 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

SIAP....

Any idea how OL rotations were handled in BlowU game??  Just curious how Rodriguez/Kerstetter were rotated during the game. 

Watching replay, seems like Kerstetter was playing RG a lot...

May be wrong, got numbers confused.....

May have been #72 Rodriguez who played a lot????

Edited October 12, 2018 by LTtxfan

[Machinator 32098]

 

[Tex Long 4363]

OL keeps progressing, we'll be okay. WVU, OSU are certainly losable (especially if we can't generate a pass rush sometime soon), but Baylor, Tceh, ISU and Kansas look like Ws if we don't revert to turtle soup. 

Expecting to win? Sorta kinda, but more like "we've managed to screw up a little something every game, but as long as it's only a little something, we're gonna keep winning"...

Hell, yeah - at least it's interesting again. Thanks, MensaTom.

[Pato del Muerto 52409]

Yeah, do we have another beck in the TE room?

[Machinator 32098]

 

[LTtxfan 49075]

Please rotate more OL earlier in the game  Coach Hand..... We suck ASS in run blocking during the 4th quarter cause Oline guys are worn out!!!

[HtownHorn 14604]

1 minute ago, LTtxfan said:

Please rotate more OL earlier in the game  Coach Hand..... We suck ASS in run blocking during the 4th quarter cause Oline guys are worn out!!!

Yeah, don't understand why Kerstetter went from one of the top OL to hardly playing anymore. The interior OL should be rotating between Vahe, Rodriguez, Shackelford, and Kerstetter.

[Tired of Lurking 637]

Strange. Urquidez looks huge and Okafor looks tiny.

[futureman 22441]

I hope angilau has some blocking skills because he looks like the future.  

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

Good grief Imade looks like a man among boys. 

[GotThatFire 166]

On 10/9/2018 at 9:53 AM, Machinator said:

Kyler’s head is so disproportionate, like a widdle baby

[gmr548 16558]

I'll need to go back and rewatch, but my gut reaction to the Baylor game is that I'm really disappointed to see that this unit couldn't impose its will on the worst front in the conference. No Sam and bad play calling didn't help, but they didn't exactly light the world on fire when called upon.

I don't think more rotation is the answer. Offensive lines don't typically rotate that often. Cohesion is more important. It isn't like we're playing D lines that go 6-8 deep. Working Kerstetter in for a few series is fine but it isn't going to be a huge difference maker either way unless someone is just having an off game.

We are really going to need to lean on these guys in Stillwater, which doesn't inspire a ton of confidence. They are going to need to play at a level we haven't seen, save for two quarters against OU.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[sushihorn 3233]

The Baylor game really highlighted how much Charlie Strong left us screwed in the 2 most important offensive units: QB and OL.  This OL is good enough to move 95% of FBS DL when the defense is forced to read and react as they have to do when Sam is at QB.  But when the DL can penetrate aggressively and key the RB first, then the QB it's a whole different ballgame.  Same story when the LBs reads are simplified by taking the QB out of the running game. 

That's what happened in the Maryland game when Beck or the Committee took Sam out of the game by scheme.  He had almost no keeps from the zone read look until late in the game so the LBs could just attack downhill against the RB.  Similar result when injury does the same thing against Baylor. 

[Katfid54 8594]

8 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

I'll need to go back and rewatch, but my gut reaction to the Baylor game is that I'm really disappointed to see that this unit couldn't impose its will on the worst front in the conference. No Sam and bad play calling didn't help, but they didn't exactly light the world on fire when called upon.

I, too, need to do a more thorough rewatch.  But my take was almost the exact opposite of yours.  When Buechele came in, Baylor tightened up its coverage considerably, playing, basically, man coverage on our wide receivers and stacking the box to stop the run.  It was pretty obvious that was going to be their strategy against Sam, too, but he's a good enough passer and runner to keep them honest, which is why we were clicking so easily down the field on our first drive.

When a defense decides it wants to stop the run against 11 personnel, it can do so.  It just can.  Through sheer numbers it can stop the run.  That's what Baylor did, and Buechele was unable to make Baylor pay with his legs or with his arm.  Even the passes we were hitting on consistently on were slants and stop routes, which do not punish teams for playing man coverage and which do not force safeties to respect the passing game.

In my mind, it's tough to take anything about the OL away from the Baylor game--especially run blocking proficiency.

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

Easier to play man when the defense isn’t concerned with the QB’s legs. Sam may not house it from 80 out, but he’s very capable of the occasional gash, and we use him regularly to move the ball on the ground. So it behooves defense’s to keep eyes in the backfield when he’s in on appropriate downs. 

[Tex Pete 20248]

1 hour ago, Katfid54 said:

In my mind, it's tough to take anything about the OL away from the Baylor game--especially run blocking proficiency.

Exactly. My text group was whining about why we weren't consistently running. We weren't running because gaining 2 YPC doesn't get first downs.

The Okie State game will be interesting if Sam doesn't play. Our coaches will at least have the opportunity to install a gameplan for Shane, which will make a bit of difference in what we try to do. Having QB1 and QB2 with different skill sets make gameplanning for both a challenge. Plus, Shane's timing was off merely because he didn't have any game reps this season.

What we saw offensively Saturday wasn't indicative of much at this point.

[Red Five 40722]

I’m very capable of occasionally abusing your mom’s gash.

[texifornia 56596]

 

[gmr548 16558]

12 minutes ago, texifornia said:

 

Honestly had never even heard of the Joe Moore Award until today. I will be following it though, that is very cool. Only other unit in the B12 to make the list is OU. Reasonable minds can disagree on whether or not this unit is top 14 in the country (I don't think they run block well enough to be top tier) but the fact that they are even in the conversation is incredible, and it is as big a reason for the improvement this season as any. Tip of the cap to Hand and the guys on the line for their progress. 

[Pig Bellmont 8698]

Hand is earning his $$$ this season and I hope we keep him for many years 

[sushihorn 3233]

3 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Hand is earning his $$$ this season and I hope we keep him for many years 

Indeed.  One of the less heralded but critical areas of improvement is pass pro.  So far this year the OL is giving up a sack about 4% of the time.  246 pass attempts plus however many drop backs turn in scrambles which have resulted in only 10 sacks.  And that's after facing K-State and TCU.  Last year Texas gave up 34 sacks on 499 pass attempts, a sack ratio of 7%.  Yes Sam is doing better throwing the ball away when there's nothing but we are also seeing more deep shots in the passing game.

[Tired of Lurking 637]

Doesn't hurt that Shane hasn't taken half the snaps this season either.