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ABIA Expansion Thread

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Chet Steadman

Chet Steadman 940

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On 5/20/2022 at 9:36 AM, Native Horn said:

I saw an article (maybe KXAN?) a couple of days ago that said that website is not accurate anymore due to technology lapses or some bullshit.  

We can get a live feed of the peacocks at the Austin Zoo but we can’t get real-time wait times at our international airport which sees 22 million visitors a year?

Wtf is wrong with you Austin?

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Ghost of LL
Ghost of LL

A third runway is necessary if you want ABIA to be anything more than a nice regional airport.  If you have any hope of ABIA ever being a hub--and if you favor economic development in Austin, you need

Armybrat
Armybrat

This is what the old Mueller Airport main terminal building looked like when I first flew into Austin (In a DC-7, IIRC) in January, 1959. It had been doubled in size since first constructed in the 193

The People’s Elbow
The People’s Elbow

The fuck? You get paid by the word? 

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Larry T. Spider

Larry T. Spider 1,746

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2 minutes ago, Chet Steadman said:

We can get a live feed of the peacocks at the Austin Zoo but we can’t get real-time wait times at our international airport which sees 22 million visitors a year?

Wtf is wrong with you Austin?

They should just put a live feed of the line. Let the zoo run it.

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Chet Steadman

Chet Steadman 940

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9 hours ago, Mittens said:

ABIA attempts 'unusual' use of eminent domain to force out South Terminal operator

Ask anyone stuck on an airplane waiting for a gate at Austin-Bergstrom International Airport (ABIA) if the Barbara Jordan Terminal is big enough, and you'll hear something like this:

"It's mind-boggling to me that Bergstrom has not grown as it's needed to. It's embarrassing," said Jon Lamb, a Florida resident who last month was stuck on an American Airlines plane after landing because no gates were available. "I was angry that now I'm going to miss an important customer call."

Officials who run the city-owned airport want to fix this problem by building more gates. A big plan in the works would add a new concourse by 2028 with at least 10 gates and the ability to expand to 40. The concourse would be connected to the Barbara Jordan Terminal by an underground pedestrian tunnel.

But there's one big obstacle: The South Terminal where ultra-low-cost airlines Allegiant and Frontier operate would have to be demolished.

The South Terminal is run by a private company, Lonestar Airport Holdings. In 2015, the Austin City Council approved a 30-year lease with Lonestar's parent company plus two optional five-year extensions.

Lonestar says it has invested close to $20 million in the South Terminal, including about $1 million to accommodate a $75 million Allegiant base of operations that opened in November.

So now the City of Austin is attempting a novel use of the state's eminent domain law to terminate Lonestar's lease. ABIA wants the company gone by July 2023.

As part of the condemnation process — legal steps under eminent domain law to seize a property — the city sent an initial offer in late March to buy out Lonestar's lease for nearly $2 million.

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Lonestar rejected the offer as "objectively offensive." In a blistering response, the company's lawyers accused the city of trying to "wrongfully condemn its way out of binding contractual obligations." They said the city's attempts to force out Lonestar would fail in court.

Jacqueline Yaft, the airport's executive director, signaled confidence that the eminent domain process would proceed as planned.

"The city's next steps will be to send a final offer letter to the tenant as required by the Texas eminent domain statute," she told commissioners overseeing the airport.

If that offer is rejected, the city would then file a condemnation lawsuit to force out Lonestar.

Attorneys who work in eminent domain law said this is far from an open-and-shut case.

"I think this is kind of an unusual one," David Todd, an eminent domain attorney based in Austin, said. "We may even develop some new case law based on the result of what the result is here."

"There is some precedent to say [the government] can't use eminent domain simply to take over a business that it had already contracted to allow someone else to do," Todd said.

Usually, eminent domain is used to seize property for a public use. In this case, the city is trying to terminate a lease on its own property.

"That's a very atypical scenario," said Luke Ellis, an eminent domain attorney who teaches at UT Austin. "Usually the condemning entity is not the owner."

Ellis says even if the city can use eminent domain to force out the South Terminal operator, it may have unintended consequences.

"If the city could simply condemn its way out of any contract that they no longer believe is suitable or advantageous to the city, the net effect of that is private enterprise is going to have zero interest in doing any business with the city," he said.

Airport officials have been reluctant to comment publicly on a case that could wind up in court. ABIA issued a statement that reads in part: "The Department of Aviation will continue to work with all business stakeholders and tenants throughout the duration of this program and looks forward to delivering an improved passenger experience to all AUS customers."

 

negotiating a 30yr lease with options when the airport was already exploring short-mid term terminal expansion is borderline negligent 

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Updawg

Updawg 2,266

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negotiating a 30yr lease with options when the airport was already exploring short-mid term terminal expansion is borderline negligent 

It’s ridiculous.

This airport is pretty new and they started with a blank slate. How is there not a master plan for expansion

It’s like a kid playing sim city except shittier
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hornbri

hornbri 1,391

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1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

Here now (7pm) and over half the restaurants are closed and a lot of the stores. I assume staffing but pretty frustrating. 

I assume it is staffing as well, but airport traffic has got to be some high dollar traffic so you could afford to pay more to attract workers. 

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The Dog

The Dog 44,017

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On 5/25/2022 at 7:27 PM, 4th&Five said:

Here now (7pm) and over half the restaurants are closed and a lot of the stores. I assume staffing but pretty frustrating. 

That's earlier than I remember but I also remember that ABIA stores and restaurants have always closed pretty early since most outbound flights leave before the evening. 

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15,531

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On 5/25/2022 at 7:27 PM, 4th&Five said:

Here now (7pm) and over half the restaurants are closed and a lot of the stores. I assume staffing but pretty frustrating. 

That's an improvement over when I was there just a couple months ago, when absolutely everything was closed by 7:00.  If you wanted anything to eat or drink, you had to go up to the AAdmirals Club.

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Native Horn

Native Horn 3,498

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23 hours ago, royiv said:

For what has become a busy international airport, the city still operates it like the old Robert Mueller airport. Pretty par for the course for Austin city government.

Hanging out at Taco Bell slamming large beers before walking to the gate to meet your girlfriend's flight was highly underrated.  

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royiv

royiv 9,244

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2 minutes ago, JesusSweatDuck said:

Sorry, only use the Delta lounge

Yeah, that one is pretty sweet. The Admiral's Club is worn down and super cramped, especially in the afternoon around when the BA flight departs. Luckily, AA is building a new club that should be a huge upgrade. Can't happen fast enough.

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Texas Jeff

Texas Jeff 1,942

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Last night was my first time picking up at ABIA post-COVID.  What an experience...

My wife's flight was two hours delayed, so I pulled into the cell phone lot at fifteen minutes 'till midnight.  The place was packed.  I was lucky to find a parking spot.  The cell phone lot has bloomed into a gas station, a convenience store, and a Whataburger with a drive through.  The gas pumps were packed and the Whataburger drive through was backed up into the main lot, blocking traffic.  Who decides to head out to the airport for some midnight burgers?

Five minutes after I parked, an 18-wheeler pulled into the cell phone lot and completely screwed up the traffic.  WTF?  I had questions for the driver like why are you picking someone up at the airport in a giant truck, but a small mob of blocked in drivers convinced the dude to leave, which he did once the Whataburger drive-through line gave him a chance.

Got a text from my wife 30 minutes after she had landed saying that she had her bag and was waiting at post E.  I texted "Is it crowded where you are?" and she replied "It is more crowded elsewhere." which is information but not exactly what I wanted to know.  I replied "OMW".

I started the car, weaved around the Whataburger drive through, drove around the gas pumps, tried to exit the cell phone lot and hit standstill traffic before I could even get onto the loop around the terminal.  It's fifteen minutes after midnight and the airport is gridlocked.  Why?

I called my wife and use my best Puddy voice and said "Babe, you gotta get upstairs to Departures.  If you don't we will need to find a place for breakfast on the way home." I waited two minutes, which was easy to do because my traffic lane was not moving.  I changed lanes to Departures  and had two completely empty lanes to choose from and a mostly empty curbside area to pick up my wife.

If you head to the airport, beware the cell phone lot and the Arrivals area.  Picking up at Departures can save you about an hour.  However, if you need midnight Whataburger, a tank of gas and a bag of Fritos, they are ready to serve.   

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royiv

royiv 9,244

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27 minutes ago, Texas Jeff said:

Last night was my first time picking up at ABIA post-COVID.  What an experience...

My wife's flight was two hours delayed, so I pulled into the cell phone lot at fifteen minutes 'till midnight.  The place was packed.  I was lucky to find a parking spot.  The cell phone lot has bloomed into a gas station, a convenience store, and a Whataburger with a drive through.  The gas pumps were packed and the Whataburger drive through was backed up into the main lot, blocking traffic.  Who decides to head out to the airport for some midnight burgers?

Five minutes after I parked, an 18-wheeler pulled into the cell phone lot and completely screwed up the traffic.  WTF?  I had questions for the driver like why are you picking someone up at the airport in a giant truck, but a small mob of blocked in drivers convinced the dude to leave, which he did once the Whataburger drive-through line gave him a chance.

Got a text from my wife 30 minutes after she had landed saying that she had her bag and was waiting at post E.  I texted "Is it crowded where you are?" and she replied "It is more crowded elsewhere." which is information but not exactly what I wanted to know.  I replied "OMW".

I started the car, weaved around the Whataburger drive through, drove around the gas pumps, tried to exit the cell phone lot and hit standstill traffic before I could even get onto the loop around the terminal.  It's fifteen minutes after midnight and the airport is gridlocked.  Why?

I called my wife and use my best Puddy voice and said "Babe, you gotta get upstairs to Departures.  If you don't we will need to find a place for breakfast on the way home." I waited two minutes, which was easy to do because my traffic lane was not moving.  I changed lanes to Departures  and had two completely empty lanes to choose from and a mostly empty curbside area to pick up my wife.

If you head to the airport, beware the cell phone lot and the Arrivals area.  Picking up at Departures can save you about an hour.  However, if you need midnight Whataburger, a tank of gas and a bag of Fritos, they are ready to serve.   

Example A of why adding additional gates without addressing the severe lack of curbspace at the terminal is going to fuck things up even worse than they already are. As usual, the City of Austin can't manage or plan its way out of a paper sack.

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LCHorn

LCHorn 2,612

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We flew back in Monday night from Jamaica, arrived (late) about 1 am and the airport felt about half full with arrivals.  What was particularly nuts was the pick-up area-I’ve never seen that much traffic during daylight hours.  

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boilerhorn

boilerhorn 1,371

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10 hours ago, Texas Jeff said:

If you head to the airport, beware the cell phone lot and the Arrivals area.  Picking up at Departures can save you about an hour.  However, if you need midnight Whataburger, a tank of gas and a bag of Fritos, they are ready to serve.   

This is my new mode of operation for drop offs and pick ups at the airport.  Before noon - you get dropped off at arrivals.  After 3 (and especially after 5), you get picked up at departures.

I am a fan of Park and Zoom, but the traffic delays have made it less compelling than it was in the past.  ABIA management is just a microcosm of Austin city management.  It's been this way since the 70s, but it is far more impactful and irritating now that there are around 2.3 million people in the area.

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CooterBrown

CooterBrown 18,002

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First time using the facial recognition scan for Global Entry yesterday. So damn easy. It’s a bit freaky that the tech is good enough to instantly recognize my 9YO who got her GE 3 years ago and doesn’t look that much like her 6YO GE photo. We were through customs in about 90 seconds and in the curb waiting for the Park & Zoom shuttle. An acquaintance on the same London flight said it took over an hour to get her checked bag.

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Your Mom

Your Mom 4,805

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Posted
On 6/25/2022 at 11:10 PM, boilerhorn said:

This is my new mode of operation for drop offs and pick ups at the airport.  Before noon - you get dropped off at arrivals.  After 3 (and especially after 5), you get picked up at departures.

This should be SOP for all.  There is never a need to be on the lower level after noon.  

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15,531

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On 6/3/2022 at 7:04 PM, royiv said:

Yeah, that one is pretty sweet. The Admiral's Club is worn down and super cramped, especially in the afternoon around when the BA flight departs. Luckily, AA is building a new club that should be a huge upgrade. Can't happen fast enough.

I was up there a couple weeks ago and asked the ladies who were checking people in at the AAdmirals Club about the new digs.  They both just sighed.  According to them, they haven't even started construction.  It was supposed to be done by the end of 2022, but now they're saying the end of 2023.

 

By the way, they were great in making me alternative arrangements when my flight was delayed and my connection was borked.  Getting to deal with the people in the club rather than down at the gate when shit like that happens is reason enough to get into the AAdmirals Club.

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royiv

royiv 9,244

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18 hours ago, BrazilHorn said:

Clear moved their TSA precheck line from delta side to the swa/united one. 
It blows, no clue why they did that as the delta tsa pre side is much larger than other. 
 

I don't think it's up to Clear. One of their reps at ABIA told me that local TSA tells then where their lines go. This was at security checkpoint 2 a couple of months ago when the Clear line moved to the opposite side of the checkpoint from the Pre line instead of right next to it. Since the majority of Clear members also have Pre, this meant that after the Clear scan, the Clear rep had to cross over multiple general boarding lines to get you to the ID checker at the Pre lane. It was super inefficient. Don't know if they've fixed it since AUS isn't my home airport.

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brownboy

brownboy 45

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Clear at the center security checkpoint is still on the opposite side of the Pre lane.  Silly but minor.

The Global Entry facial recog is pretty nice and is super fast.  If we're going to be tracked we might as well get some benefits.  If only there was a way to stay inside security if you only have carry on bags.  DFW had this briefly.

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NameAlreadyInUse

NameAlreadyInUse 5,111

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On 1/6/2023 at 7:50 PM, brownboy said:

Clear at the center security checkpoint is still on the opposite side of the Pre lane.  Silly but minor.

The Global Entry facial recog is pretty nice and is super fast.  If we're going to be tracked we might as well get some benefits.  If only there was a way to stay inside security if you only have carry on bags.  DFW had this briefly.

Or at least add a precheck line if you have to go through that transit security control.  Usually when we go through that, we just exit the terminal like we're at our destination then join the clear line on the outside, but last time we came through, there wasn't an option to leave the secure area after we dropped off our checked bags.

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19,449

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Yeah, for a city promising us light rail direct to the airport from the CBD, and the innovative autonomous vehicle hub of North America.............we are sure building a fuck-ton of parking garages out there when we should be focusing on ingress/egress and gates.  Also that underground tunnel is gonna be a fucking disaster for apron/taxi traffic for 3 years.  They may as well build it elevated to connect the two concourses with gradual escalators on each end to get well above wide-bodied equipment.  

Anyway, follow Ray Brimble's String Theory when he gets to aviation facilities construction and our fair city (he does stuff all over the world but is based here).  He's got some great insight into this next comedy of errors.

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BrazilHorn

BrazilHorn 6,586

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Flew out Sunday and while I had TSA my 16 yo didn't (TSA is so fucking stupid about minors above 13yo) so we had to go through regular screening (albeit with clear).

They've taken an already shitty regular process and now made it worse as they added bomb/drug sniffing dogs where you have to line up two abreast and walk slowly so dog can circle around you.

If you are flying out of Austin I would add 20-30 mins to your time for this stupid bit of "security theater" to play out.

TSA needs to be completely overhauled. Such a fucking worthless collective of ass clowns. Just a waste of $ and time.

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BrazilHorn

BrazilHorn 6,586

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57 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Kids 13-17 can go with their parents if they're on the same reservation.  I've never had an issue with mine.

 

Only if they get tsa pre on their pass. Eg my youngest got it randomly on swa last week headed to SD. My oldest did not get it on Delta this week headed to Boston. 
Tsa allows them to go if they got tsa pre on pass (as part of the random draw stuff tsa does sometimes). 
we are taking them to get officially their own tsa number but the whole 13-17 thing is just so stupid 

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Paper_jam

Paper_jam 831

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Posted

This isn't an "expansion" issue but I'll take this opportunity to gripe about the restrooms at ABIA (and at most large airports). When you finish your business and you need to wash up, there is NO PLACE near the sinks to hang your coat, or put your briefcase down, to keep it from getting wet/dirty etc. If I was designing an airport bathroom I'd include lots of hooks and shelves and surfaces you could rest/hang things on. But it seems to be an intentional design trend to not have ANY surfaces other than the disgusting wet countertop or (worse) the floor.  Even the paper towel dispensers and hand dryers are designed with rounded, sloping contours so you can't rest anything on top of them. Is there a name for a design ethos that is intentionally inconvenient and inflexible?

Also, to whom it may concern: please stop with gimmicky airport restaurants.  When I travel I want affordable, quick, tasty, calorie dense food. If it reflects local cuisine that's great, but I don't want airport sushi. I don't want a "breakfast taco" made with egg whites, organic yogurt, and a gluten free tortilla.  Some of these weird airport restaurants must be laundering cartel money or something.

 


 

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