School Threatens to Bernard Poors Parents

RPM · July 25, 2019

School district that warned parents of foster care over unpaid lunch debt rejects offer to pay it off, CEO says

The Pennsylvania school district that recently sent letters warning parents their kids could be placed in foster care if they did not pay off school lunch bills is doubling down on its plan to collect more than $20,000 from the families as a CEO says they have refused his offer to cover the debt.

Todd Carmichael, chief executive and co-founder of Philadelphia-based La Colombe Coffee, told the Associated Press this week that he offered to give Wyoming Valley West School District in Luzerne County $22,000 to wipe out bills that generated the recent letter to parents.

But school board President Joseph Mazur rejected the offer during a phone conversation Monday, Carmichael spokesman Aren Platt said, claiming the official argued that the parents who got the letters can afford to pay up.

"I know what it means to be hungry," Carmichael wrote in a letter sent to local newspapers in northeast Pennsylvania Monday, "I know what it means to feel shame for not being able to afford food."

The school district's letter, sent to homes on July 9, had accused parents who didn't send their children to school with lunch money of neglecting their child's "right to food." The district says around 1,000 student accounts owe a combined total of more than $20,000 in school lunch debt, and four parents owe at least $450 each.

The letters told parents if they are taken to Dependency court, "the result may be your child being removed from your home and placed in foster care," according to a copy obtained by WBRE. "Please remit payment as soon as possible to avoid being reported to the proper authorities.”

But the Luzerne County child welfare agency director has told the superintendent the letter was a misrepresentation and demanded the district retract it. However, Wyoming Valley West's lawyer, Charles Coslett, stood by it in an interview with WYOU-TV.

"Hopefully, that gets their attention and it certainly did, didn’t it?" he said. "I mean, if you think about it, you’re here this morning because some parents cried foul because he or she doesn’t want to pay a debt attributed to feeding their kids. How shameful."

When asked what the school board planned to do after it refused Carmichael's offer, Coslett said he wasn't sure. Officials previously said they had other means of recovering student lunch debt, including filing complaints in district court or placing liens on properties.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

After the news got out, seems they crawfished pretty damn hard.

(CNN)The CEO of a Philadelphia coffee company says that the Luzerne County, Pennsylvania, school district that threatened to put children in foster care over unpaid lunch bills turned down his offer to pay the entire $22,476 bill.

La Colombe Coffee Roasters co-founder Todd Carmichael told CNN affiliate WNEP that he wanted to help these families because he received free and reduced lunch as a child, when his single mom had a limited income.
"No strings attached. We don't want an airport named after us. We'd just like this debt to be forgiven. You know, a lot of these people are struggling," Carmichael said.

He said the president of the Wyoming Valley West School Board told him no, but has since reconsidered and accepted the offer from Carmichael in an apology letter.
"We have seen the letter that they released and feel very optimistic," said Carmichael's spokesman, Aren Platt. "At this point, we expect ... to ensure that the funds will be used as intended and that the parents will receive a letter that strikes the same apologetic tone as the one they put on their web site."
The district also issued an apology for the way it worded of hundreds of letters it sent last week that told parents that there have been "multiple letters sent home with your child" and that no payments had been made.

"Your child has been sent to school every day without money and without a breakfast and/or lunch," the letter read. It also said failure to provide children with food could result in parents being sent to Dependency Court.
"If you are taken to Dependency court, the result may be your child being removed from your home and placed in foster care," it read.
Luzerne County Manager David Pedri oversees the county's foster care system and says it is there to help families in crisis, not collect lunch money.

atomheartbevo · July 25, 2019

What a bunch of absolute shitheads. How those people still have those positions is amazing.

futureman · July 25, 2019

5 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

What a bunch of absolute shitheads. How those people still have those positions is amazing.

no kidding. they should be fired from parenting.

phdhorn · July 25, 2019

1 minute ago, futureman said:

no kidding. they should be fired from parenting.

LMAO!

Probably the Best of Darwin Rejectees on both sides. Idiot school board who takes lessons from Himmler, and deadbeat shithead parents who are leeching offa freebies.

But that's Pennsylvania. I have a buncha relatives there, visited way too much.

SDG · July 25, 2019

Don’t “poors” in most school districts typically get free lunch? We’ve always had three options depending on your income, free, reduced ($0.50), and full price. The four parents who owe at least $450 aren’t getting free or reduced lunches so at the very least they’re some level of middle class.

immortal13 · July 25, 2019

Ain't no free lunches!!

Helobious · July 25, 2019

Cool lunch story bro: One of our family friends in Harlingen was a cardiologist, guy was easily a millionaire. He had a daughter who had gone to private schools up thru middle school. But there’s not really many private HS options in the valley so even the rich families go public for HS. The dad was a major “no handouts” type of person, and was bewildered when he learned all students at harlingen south high school got free lunch regardless of income, since the % of poor kids was so high.

He literally arranged a meeting with the principal and then superintendent trying to get them to allow them to charge his daughter for lunch. They refused and told him she could either bring her lunch everyday or eat the free lunch. But I think then they “let” him make some donation to the school as a compromise for him.

futureman · July 25, 2019

30 minutes ago, SDG said:

Don’t “poors” in most school districts typically get free lunch? We’ve always had three options depending on your income, free, reduced ($0.50), and full price. The four parents who owe at least $450 aren’t getting free or reduced lunches so at the very least they’re some level of middle class.

they’re just shitbirds. mom probably wants that extra $5 a day for scratch-offs.

Js1 · July 25, 2019

This thread went as expected. Quickly to poor shaming instead of the dumbass board for not taking the donation and good PR for both sides.

SDG · July 25, 2019

14 minutes ago, Js1 said:

This thread went as expected. Quickly to poor shaming instead of the dumbass board for not taking the donation and good PR for both sides.

Actually it’s calling the bullshit article out for not including all of the facts... Poor people, up to 130% of federal poverty guidelines, get free lunches and reduced lunches are for people who make up to 185% of federal guidelines. I’m not including state and local level benefits because they can add additional subsidies as pointed out above. This all means that article doesn’t add up. If you owe $450 for lunches it’s because you can afford it because you’re not poor... FTR; I don’t agree with the tactics the district used but the article does a good job of addressing them. It doesn’t however; put any of the blame on the parents who bare some responsibility here...

workswithseed · July 25, 2019

Ummm... $20,000 of lost money. No wonder teachers don't get paid, it's cause schools have to subsidize the middle class kids.

futureman · July 25, 2019

46 minutes ago, Js1 said:

This thread went as expected. Quickly to poor shaming instead of the dumbass board for not taking the donation and good PR for both sides.

not poor shaming. these are parasites who know the school will have to feed the kids if they just keep the lunch money so they can buy lotto and cigarettes with it. so, they keep the money and pass the cost on to someone else. because they are worthless, deadbeat parasitic piles of walking, talking human excrement that should be flushed from society. and their kids should be given a chance in the foster system.

TwiceHorn · July 25, 2019

The actual assumption underlying all the vitriol is not poor shaming, it's a pretty clear assumption that the deadbeat parents are not poor. Indeed, it's 1000 accounts that owe more than $20k, averaging $20 per account, with the four worst offenders owing more than $450, less than 10% of the total. Presumably these are not families qualified for free lunch, i.e. the poors.

I'm guessing those are all pretty much kids whose dumbshit parent forgot to give them lunch or lunch money a few days of the school year and also are being dumbshits about paying their gotdamn bills.

There's one high school, one middle school, and four elementaries in the district. I imagine they have a pretty decent idea who can afford their kids' lunch and who can't, qualification for lunch programs notwithstanding.

It's a real pisser to have to dun people over small amounts of money, if you've ever had to do it. A private enterprise is likely to just write it off, a public school shouldn't have to.

All that said, I think someone in charge got a little too irritated for their own good.

Pay your fucking bills, shitbirds.

Edited July 25, 2019 by TwiceHorn

RPM · July 25, 2019

6 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

The actual assumption underlying all the vitriol is not poor shaming, it's a pretty clear assumption that the deadbeat parents are not poor. Indeed, it's 1000 accounts that owe more than $20k, averaging $20 per account, with the four worst offenders owing more than $450, less than 10% of the total. Presumably these are not families qualified for free lunch, i.e. the poors.

I'm guessing those are all pretty much kids whose dumbshit parent forgot to give them lunch or lunch money a few days of the school year and also are being dumbshits about paying their gotdamn bills.

There's one high school, one middle school, and four elementaries in the district. I imagine they have a pretty decent idea who can afford their kids' lunch and who can't, qualification for lunch programs notwithstanding.

It's a real pisser to have to dun people over small amounts of money, if you've ever had to do it. A private enterprise is likely to just write it off, a public school shouldn't have to.

All that said, I think someone in charge got a little too irritated for their own good.

Pay your fucking bills, shitbirds.

More than 14% of people living within the school district are below the poverty line, about 10% higher than the overall number across the state of Pennsylvania, according to the latest data from the U.S. Census Bureau.

"I think it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put A and B together here to realize that these people are struggling," Carmichael said in an interview with ABC Philadelphia station WPVI on Tuesday night. "We're shaming people who are struggling, and that's immoral and that's just wrong."

For the first time, the school district will qualify for the Community Eligibility Program, which will allow all students to receive free breakfast and lunch for the next five years, regardless of income, Mazur said.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/pennsylvania-school-district-refuses-ceos-offer-settle-lunch/story?id=64531455

DigglerontheHoof · July 25, 2019

The usual suspects defending the shit-heal school officials.

RPM · July 25, 2019

2 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

The usual suspects defending the shit-heal school officials.

Stupid poors. I say let 'em crash!

July 25, 2019

sure some people, like this coffee CEO, look back and remember that special teacher, coach, or community leader that encouraged them along as a youth, but...

I think we all remember that mid-level administrator and/or district comptroller that truly made a difference in our time as students, heck in our whole childhood actually.

Underdog · July 25, 2019

10 hours ago, futureman said:

they’re just shitbirds. mom probably wants that extra $5 a day for scratch-offs.

Are you making fun of my retirement plan?

phdhorn · July 25, 2019

10 hours ago, futureman said:

they’re just shitbirds. mom probably wants that extra $5 a day for scratch-offs.

Jeesus, only $5 per day? She's not even trying. More like $20.

Armybrat · July 25, 2019

Reminds me of the deadbeat assholes who abuse the toll road system around Austin every day and think they don’t have to pay user fees.

RomaVicta · July 25, 2019

Pay your $25 lunch debt or we will take your children away! We will report you as bad parents to the authorities! Nevermind that they say it's not their policy or intention!

We're trying to teach you to pay your debts. So, $25 or your kids and reputation, you make the call, shitbird.

Idiot World

Nice job bringing the irony, Futureman

I'm here to collect a debt. $23.09 for school enchiladas or this little freeloader goes with me.

Edited July 25, 2019 by RomaVicta

formermav43 · July 25, 2019

You know, it’s possible that BOTH the school officials AND the parents are in the wrong here. I feel like I stumbled into the cloak room with the lack of nuance in most replies.

SDG · July 25, 2019

3 hours ago, RPM said:

Stupid poors. I say let 'em crash!

3 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

The usual suspects defending the shit-heal school officials.

Can either of you point out one post in this thread of anyone defending the school officials? Most post at merely pointing out that 1) these aren’t poor people because if they were they would have free lunches and 2) the article falls, in any way, to place any culpability on the parents some of whom are responsible for pull price lunches...

Brisketexan · July 25, 2019

16 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

You know, it’s possible that BOTH the school officials AND the parents are in the wrong here. I feel like I stumbled into the cloak room with the lack of nuance in most replies.

Yep. There seem to be some pretty common sense rules here.

1 -- pay your bills. Even the little ones, like $20 or even $450.

2 -- the punishment for failing to pay a lunch bill of that amount is not and never should be "you lose custody of your children." In fact, a school officer callously and vindictively threatening to seek loss of custody for something this fucking trivial significantly damages the credibility of the school when it SHOULD speak out on matters that SHOULD cause a loss of custody (e.g., a child speaking out on being abused).

If you want someone to pay a debt, you turn it over to a debt collector or you file suit. Those are your fucking remedies. And if you want to avoid debt collectors and lawsuits, pay your damned bills. Threatening someone with loss of custody, pointing a gun at them, kicking them in the nuts, trashing their car -- hey, those all might feel nice, because fuck those guys who owe me money. But all are disproportionate to the issue. And most of them are illegal. In fact, the threat at issue here might have been illegal, depending on the fair debt collection laws in that jurisdiction.

What the fuck is wrong with our sense of proportion? "You owe the money!" "You broke the law!" Those are used as excuses to exact horrific consequences, when our system specifically embeds proportion in our laws. If I owe you $50, you can't take me to District Court. You can't have me arrested and charged with a crime. You can sue me in small claims or county court at law, or you can turn me over to a collection agency. That's it. If you commit a low level misdemeanor, you can be fined. Not summarily shot by a cop, or thrown in a cage and left to rot with no water, etc. What the fuck is fucking wrong with us?

DigglerontheHoof · July 25, 2019

4 minutes ago, SDG said:

Can either of you point out one post in this thread of anyone defending the school officials? Most post at merely pointing out that 1) these aren’t poor people because if they were they would have free lunches and 2) the article falls, in any way, to place any culpability on the parents some of whom are responsible for pull price lunches...

Fine, report them to a credit agency, sic bill collectors on them or bombard them w/ invoices but you don't threaten to take away their kids. JFC

SDG · July 25, 2019

1 minute ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Fine, report them to a credit agency, sic bill collectors on them or bombard them w/ invoices but you don't threaten to take away their kids. JFC

Agreed.

crash_davis · July 25, 2019

todd carmichael is a semi famous guy. he had a tv show about getting coffee beans from some of the world's most dangerous countries. some of this is altruism, some of it is an opportunity to get his name and coffee business in the news. good pub for $22k.

the school district chose a weird topic to make a stand. yea those parents owed money but as long as they got paid, they probably shouldn't have cared where from. they doubled down and went preachy.

the parents prob fall between the i really can't afford to pay for lunch to the i can easily afford to pay for lunch but i'm just a fucking shithead spectrum. will be interesting to see if the same parents are delinquent again next year. if they are, then take the kids away. i jest, sorta.

Spankytoes · July 25, 2019

13 hours ago, SDG said:

It doesn’t however; put any of the blame on the parents who bare some responsibility here...

If their moms were baring, perhaps they wouldn't be so poor.

Sandman · July 25, 2019

14 hours ago, Helobious said:

Cool lunch story bro: One of our family friends in Harlingen was a cardiologist, guy was easily a millionaire. He had a daughter who had gone to private schools up thru middle school. But there’s not really many private HS options in the valley so even the rich families go public for HS. The dad was a major “no handouts” type of person, and was bewildered when he learned all students at harlingen south high school got free lunch regardless of income, since the % of poor kids was so high.

He literally arranged a meeting with the principal and then superintendent trying to get them to allow them to charge his daughter for lunch. They refused and told him she could either bring her lunch everyday or eat the free lunch. But I think then they “let” him make some donation to the school as a compromise for him.

Was this school closed campus? I never stepped foot inside my HS cafeteria, I always went home for lunch or out to eat with friends. Fuck eating school lunch.

Judge Roybeanbag · July 25, 2019

Reminds me of the story a while back here in Austin, where when the kids lunch account ran out, the school would ink-stamp a reminder on the back of their hand, so their parents would know to re-up the lunch account. General uproar followed, equating the stamps to Jew tattoos, kid shaming etc. If you don't want your kid to get stamped, pay the damn bill. It's not that hard. You can do it online.

SimonBolivar · July 25, 2019

16 hours ago, Helobious said:

Cool lunch story bro: One of our family friends in Harlingen was a cardiologist, guy was easily a millionaire. He had a daughter who had gone to private schools up thru middle school. But there’s not really many private HS options in the valley so even the rich families go public for HS. The dad was a major “no handouts” type of person, and was bewildered when he learned all students at harlingen south high school got free lunch regardless of income, since the % of poor kids was so high.

He literally arranged a meeting with the principal and then superintendent trying to get them to allow them to charge his daughter for lunch. They refused and told him she could either bring her lunch everyday or eat the free lunch. But I think then they “let” him make some donation to the school as a compromise for him.

Guy seems confused. He paid his taxes right?

RPM · July 25, 2019

4 hours ago, SDG said:

Can either of you point out one post in this thread of anyone defending the school officials? Most post at merely pointing out that 1) these aren’t poor people because if they were they would have free lunches and 2) the article falls, in any way, to place any culpability on the parents some of whom are responsible for pull price lunches...

According to one of the articles there was no free lunch program until after this happened. Now they qualify for it. Have no idea why they didn't before.

Beau Vine · July 25, 2019

1. Pennsyltucky.

2.

swraith · July 25, 2019

Yep. There seem to be some pretty common sense rules here.
1 -- pay your bills. Even the little ones, like $20 or even $450.
2 -- the punishment for failing to pay a lunch bill of that amount is not and never should be "you lose custody of your children." In fact, a school officer callously and vindictively threatening to seek loss of custody for something this fucking trivial significantly damages the credibility of the school when it SHOULD speak out on matters that SHOULD cause a loss of custody (e.g., a child speaking out on being abused).
If you want someone to pay a debt, you turn it over to a debt collector or you file suit. Those are your fucking remedies. And if you want to avoid debt collectors and lawsuits, pay your damned bills. Threatening someone with loss of custody, pointing a gun at them, kicking them in the nuts, trashing their car -- hey, those all might feel nice, because fuck those guys who owe me money. But all are disproportionate to the issue. And most of them are illegal. In fact, the threat at issue here might have been illegal, depending on the fair debt collection laws in that jurisdiction.
What the fuck is wrong with our sense of proportion? "You owe the money!" "You broke the law!" Those are used as excuses to exact horrific consequences, when our system specifically embeds proportion in our laws. If I owe you $50, you can't take me to District Court. You can't have me arrested and charged with a crime. You can sue me in small claims or county court at law, or you can turn me over to a collection agency. That's it. If you commit a low level misdemeanor, you can be fined. Not summarily shot by a cop, or thrown in a cage and left to rot with no water, etc. What the fuck is fucking wrong with us?

Exactly this is not a both sides discussion. The schools action was way out of proportion with the violation.

And they doubled down on stupid in rejecting the charity payoff.

Those residents can decide if they should have new leadership of that school district.

formermav43 · July 25, 2019

1 hour ago, RPM said:

According to one of the articles there was no free lunch program until after this happened. Now they qualify for it. Have no idea why they didn't before.

If you’re referring to the article you linked earlier, that’s not what it says. The new program will provide free lunches to ALL regardless of income. They presumably are already on the federal program that provides free/reduced lunch to those with qualifying incomes.

Edit: confirmed through the district website, there’s information on signing up for the National School Lunch Program. That was always in place.

Edited July 25, 2019 by formermav43

Samson's Wig · July 25, 2019

Asswipes on all sides of this one. Although, anyone who's dealt with a public school system as a parent knows there's at least a half decent chance this is the first time many of these parents heard about owing any money (and it seems like the majority of them owe for their kid grabbing a candy bar or two and putting it on their "account" (yes public schools have these). School administrators tend to assume everyone outside is just as heavily involved and aware of what goes on inside the building as they are, which is ridiculous. Sending home a note in a nine year old's backpack and just assuming the parents receive it just isn't going to get it done. I have a hard time believing a bunch of middle class (i.e. working class) didn't pay a $20 bill because they were trying to get away with something. The two outliers owing $450 may be another story.

SDG · July 25, 2019

2 hours ago, RPM said:

According to one of the articles there was no free lunch program until after this happened. Now they qualify for it. Have no idea why they didn't before.

The federal program applies everywhere and I pointed out the requirements in post 10. States and locals can add to that.

Edit post 35 beat me to it.

Edited July 25, 2019 by SDG

ChickenSandwich · July 25, 2019

7 hours ago, SDG said:

Can either of you point out one post in this thread of anyone defending the school officials? Most post at merely pointing out that 1) these aren’t poor people because if they were they would have free lunches and 2) the article falls, in any way, to place any culpability on the parents some of whom are responsible for pull price lunches...

School lost their shit due to the frustration of knowing they had zero possibility of stopping the debt from getting worse.

Parents keep sending their kids to school without food or money knowing the school will feed the kid and there are no consequences for not paying. I think we all know of plenty of parents who think it’s the job of the government to feed and raise their children. School had enough.

can’t find the original article where the school said some parents were doing it as a “protest” of some sort. Wonder what for??

Id also guess some of these debts could be from multiple years.

Edited July 25, 2019 by ChickenSandwich

Mrs Whiggins · July 25, 2019

1 hour ago, swraith said:

Exactly this is not a both sides discussion. The schools action was way out of proportion with the violation.

And they doubled down on stupid in rejecting the charity payoff.

Those residents can decide if they should have new leadership of that school district.

*Bolded by me.

That seems to be the m.o. of many types of administrations in America these days. Americans are supposed to fear no one, but we sure do fear acting (and being) intelligent.

cactusflinthead · July 25, 2019

When the kid's lunch account got short for a couple of days she would get the dreaded cheese sammich. It was quickly refilled. I didn't get any sort of notice that it was getting low until the sammich rule kicked in. It was more than a little aggravating that there was no way to take care of it online or monitor the account other than physically going into the school. This was in Dublin. Denton texts, emails, and robocalls constantly. There's a greater than zero chance that some of the 'deadbeats' didn't know that they had a bill. I didn't until the kids told me.

Deej · July 25, 2019

I guess they didn't realize making those children wards of the State is a lot more expensive than feeding them for free.

El Diablo · July 25, 2019

9 hours ago, formermav43 said:

You know, it’s possible that BOTH the school officials AND the parents are in the wrong here. I feel like I stumbled into the cloak room with the lack of nuance in most replies.

What's a "nuance"?

Underdog · July 26, 2019

Cheese sandwich was probably the safest thing on the menu.

Deej · July 26, 2019

34 minutes ago, Underdog said:

Cheese sandwich was probably the safest thing on the menu.

I was always a fan of chicken fried steak day. Yeah, it was shitty relative to a real CFS, but beggars can't be choosers.

NeverMarryAStripper · July 26, 2019

As usual, most of the “adults” involved in this are ignorant and the kids suffer as a result

TeddyBearStallion · July 26, 2019

On 7/24/2019 at 9:42 PM, futureman said:

they’re just shitbirds. mom probably wants that extra $5 a day for scratch-offs.

scratching off the itch of the herp?

2 hours ago, Deej said:

I was always a fan of chicken fried steak day. Yeah, it was shitty relative to a real CFS, but beggars can't be choosers.

I was a big fan of those rectangular pizza Mondays. Those pizzas would cure my munchies.

Underdog · July 26, 2019

Fridays were square pizza day for us, don't recall cfs but do Salisbury steak day.

Larry T. Spider · July 26, 2019

I used to teach at a school where there was a family that scammed the school for free lunches for 5 kids. Quick math shows it was about $2,200 a year but that wasn’t my real problem with it. I felt bad for those kids going their entire school career eating a cheese sandwich everyday. I also felt bad for the cafeteria manager who got bitched at all the time for not being a good enough bill collector from her bosses. This was a contracted out company so they had a bottom line to meet. Everybody suffered except for the parent causing the mess.

irishtexan · July 26, 2019

I was a big fan of queso-covered chimichanga day.

*Just trying to veer this conversation away from the cloak room.

workswithseed · July 26, 2019

We had queso covered beef or chicken tequitos

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