LSU @ Texas Analysis: LSU Offense

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

1 hour ago, DayHeGeaux said:

Texas' base is a 3-3-5. If you think you can stop LSU with only 6-7 people in the box, I don't know what to tell you. 

First of all, Texas is hardly ever in base. You are liable to see on multiple occasions only one actual DL on the field at a time. Seriously, I'm not joking. And that's just one of the goofy, "What the hell are they doing?" looks Texas rolls out there.

Second of all, the myth of "the box" survives, but it is an outdated concept. Power running teams can and do get shut down by defenses that put only five guys in the traditional "front seven" role. You just have to have fast guys who can bring the lumber when they get there; if the OL can't catch up to 'em, they can't put a hat on 'em, and can't keep 'em off the ball-carrier. Instead of math, offenses need to be thinking more about physics.

Look at old footage of Army from last year if you really want to see what I'm talking about. Jay Bateman hardly had anybody at all who was even remotely big enough to play DL -- so, since he couldn't play traditional defense, he played non-traditional defense, and applied principles of multiplicity to every single person on that side of the ball. Good luck figuring out what a DC who is thinking along those lines is actually doing pre-snap. Whatever the alignment, the actual assignments are bound to be something different.

[Treefidy 1463]

58 minutes ago, ShadyTiger4TX said:

Theres been so much said that I cant quote one to reply to. But to the person who was talking about the new hurry up offense vs the 3 and out after running it up the middle two times then a failed pass attempt. The new offense so far looks better at very least at getting first downs which is important to keep the defense from wearing down too fast.

Also for the talk of the RBs and only 3.7 ypc. They were splitting time between 5 RBs on purpose. They wanted all of them to get touches and GA southern was the safe game to do it. But it didnt allow any of them to get going. 

Against Texas It will more than likely be Edwards-Helaire and Emery getting the load of the work. Doesnt mean the running game will magically be fixed but it can improve drastically.

But Texas will let us know what LSU has on offense regardless. Saying LSU struggles or dominates at something from either fanbase on offense is unproven regardless at this point. 

please explain the dynamics of running the spread, TOP and number of defensive snaps.  We really don't understand it around here. 

Unintended consequences, can wait to see how they work out for you in year 1.  Throwing the ball, chances are the clock will stop more often than not, incompletes and boundary.  Drives can get REALLY short when they don't work out.  Your defense gets 75 snaps instead of 45.  

The more time your defense spends on the field, generally the more tired they get and the other teams success rate goes up.  Next thing you know people think you can't play defense.  

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

Buncha mouthbreathers still beating their chest over a win against Georgia Southern, huh?

It’s almost as if they’re trying convince themselves of their greatness more than us.

 

[Burt Macklin 18989]

43 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

Georgia Southern stuffed LSU's ground attack with 5-6 in the box vs 11 and 10 personnel.  Orgeron is playing into Orlando's hands by going 3 and 4 wide.  Texas will likely use 3-2-6 dime as the base defense.  That puts one more safety on the field - which is the strongest and deepest position group on the defense.  Maybe just as important, it gets a question mark at LB OFF the field.  With Ossai and McCullough playing the 2nd level I'm very comfortable  with that group.

Especially when their 11 personnel uses Sullivan as the tight end. All 3 of our starting WRs are better blockers than him. 

34 minutes ago, DayHeGeaux said:

Do you really want a Tackle getting matched up on a Safety. In our 11 personnel we can line up in a traditional pro-style with Tory Carter going from TE to FB for smash mouth football or we can spread it out as you saw against GA Southern. I believe you saw very little vs GA Southern. 

Lulz. Please try this. Your OL can’t pick up our slants or block in space. 

33 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

First of all, Texas is hardly ever in base. You are liable to see on multiple occasions only one actual DL on the field at a time. Seriously, I'm not joking. And that's just one of the goofy, "What the hell are they doing?" looks Texas rolls out there.

Second of all, the myth of "the box" survives, but it is an outdated concept. Power running teams can and do get shut down by defenses that put only five guys in the traditional "front seven" role. You just have to have fast guys who can bring the lumber when they get there; if the OL can't catch up to 'em, they can't put a hat on 'em, and can't keep 'em off the ball-carrier. Instead of math, offenses need to be thinking more about physics.

Look at old footage of Army from last year if you really want to see what I'm talking about. Jay Bateman hardly had anybody at all who was even remotely big enough to play DL -- so, since he couldn't play traditional defense, he played non-traditional defense, and applied principles of multiplicity to every single person on that side of the ball. Good luck figuring out what a DC who is thinking along those lines is actually doing pre-snap. Whatever the alignment, the actual assignments are bound to be something different.

Mixing up our personnel’s responsibilities so Burrow can’t figure out who to key on in the RPO game will be crucial, and Orlando is a master at it. Burrow’s never seen a defense like ours and properly executing the RPO will not be easy for him. He’s gonna have defenders dropping under routes, speeding into passing lanes, and generally be unsure who’s doing what.

[ShadyTiger4TX 11]

I'll say you do bring up some good points, our Oline and breaking in a new offense against the Texas defense can be where its won or lost.

But if feels like a lot of you if not most of you are selling LSU short. LSU knows how to win without the offense taking over or being dominant. And while it's new schemes it's still stuff a lot of the players have been doing for years with LSU just more variety now. This will be the first time implementing certain specific schemes. But there's still plenty of stuff they've been doing already just opened up more. And a lot of these players have experience doing it against defenses better than Texas like Alabama and Mississippi State last year. Not saying that plays a major role but a lot of the key  players have had to do this against good defenses. And minus the Alabama game, worse Olines and lesser running backs have still got it done against better defenses.

The reason LSU fans are so confident maybe even to a fault about this game is the same reason we have been for the better part of the last decade. The defense. Boils down to the simplest reason. We believe our defense can shut down that offense better than Texas can shut down LSUs. Point blank. Which  sounds like a "no shit" football statement. But that's what it is. We feel our defense is good enough to make up for any stumbling the offense does. 

 

[sushihorn 3233]

1 minute ago, ShadyTiger4TX said:

I'll say you do bring up some good points, our Oline and breaking in a new offense against the Texas defense can be where its won or lost.

But if feels like a lot of you if not most of you are selling LSU short. LSU knows how to win without the offense taking over or being dominant. And while it's new schemes it's still stuff a lot of the players have been doing for years with LSU just more variety now. This will be the first time implementing certain specific schemes. But there's still plenty of stuff they've been doing already just opened up more. And a lot of these players have experience doing it against defenses better than Texas like Alabama and Mississippi State last year. Not saying that plays a major role but a lot of the key  players have had to do this against good defenses. And minus the Alabama game, worse Olines and lesser running backs have still got it done against better defenses.

The reason LSU fans are so confident maybe even to a fault about this game is the same reason we have been for the better part of the last decade. The defense. Boils down to the simplest reason. We believe our defense can shut down that offense better than Texas can shut down LSUs. Point blank. Which  sounds like a "no shit" football statement. But that's what it is. We feel our defense is good enough to make up for any stumbling the offense does.

 

I think that LSU's defense is going to be a lot less effective than their fanbase believes - especially late in the game.  Last season they showed a tendency to falter anytime the play count got over 70.  Watch what happened late in games against Bama (79 snaps). Florida (71) and aggy (78 in regulation, 107 total).  Running tempo against a peer means your defense will likely have to defend as many snaps as your offense gets.  Orgeron is targeting 75-80 snaps and I'm sure Tom Herman will be happy to accommodate him.

Go back and look at how gassed the OL looked even in the 2nd Q against GA So.  LSU has some really overweight linemen on both sides of the ball - especially the OGs and NTs.  What is Ika or Shelvin going to look like after chasing down screens, outside zone and being forced to pass rush  for 10 plays on a drive with no chance to sub out?  Preventing defensive rotation is one reason Herman likes to stick with 11 personnel and play the TE as either a flex or H-back to get different formation looks.

[po elvis 2070]

39 minutes ago, ShadyTiger4TX said:

The reason LSU fans are so confident maybe even to a fault about this game is the same reason we have been for the better part of the last decade. The defense. Boils down to the simplest reason. We believe our defense can shut down that offense better than Texas can shut down LSUs. Point blank. Which  sounds like a "no shit" football statement. But that's what it is. We feel our defense is good enough to make up for any stumbling the offense does. 

 

Facing SEC offenses year after year will make you overconfident about your defense.

[Funk Doctor Spock 11918]

Those defenses they were dominated against Clemson, UCF, ou, aggy, etc. "Vaunted" defenses in the SEC. 

[Burt Macklin 18989]

53 minutes ago, ShadyTiger4TX said:

I'll say you do bring up some good points, our Oline and breaking in a new offense against the Texas defense can be where its won or lost.

But if feels like a lot of you if not most of you are selling LSU short. LSU knows how to win without the offense taking over or being dominant. And while it's new schemes it's still stuff a lot of the players have been doing for years with LSU just more variety now. This will be the first time implementing certain specific schemes. But there's still plenty of stuff they've been doing already just opened up more. And a lot of these players have experience doing it against defenses better than Texas like Alabama and Mississippi State last year. Not saying that plays a major role but a lot of the key  players have had to do this against good defenses. And minus the Alabama game, worse Olines and lesser running backs have still got it done against better defenses.

The reason LSU fans are so confident maybe even to a fault about this game is the same reason we have been for the better part of the last decade. The defense. Boils down to the simplest reason. We believe our defense can shut down that offense better than Texas can shut down LSUs. Point blank. Which  sounds like a "no shit" football statement. But that's what it is. We feel our defense is good enough to make up for any stumbling the offense does. 

 

Look up LSU and Aranda’s performances against spread offenses that can run tempo. It’s a hell of a lot less impressive than the overall numbers. Your defense won’t be able to hold up all game if your offense can’t control the game, and running tempo might seem new and exciting but if y’all start going 3 and out that tempo will kill your defense. Tempo won’t affect our defense too much. Your guys are more than used to it.

I get why LSU fans are confident. Y’all have a shitload of talented players. Your roster top to bottom is more talented than Texas. But the legacy of LSU is doing less with more by having an overmatched HC and underwhelming QB play. We’ll see if y’all can stem the Tide (something y’all haven’t done in 8 years btw) and change that theme. Y’all undoubtedly lose the HC match up. You can’t afford to lose the QB one too. Burrow’s shown to be a good QB so far, but he’ll have to do more than he’s been asked to do in any big win by LSU since he arrived in Baton Rouge. 

[DayHeGeaux 72]

1 hour ago, sushihorn said:

 

I think that LSU's defense is going to be a lot less effective than their fanbase believes - especially late in the game.  Last season they showed a tendency to falter anytime the play count got over 70.  Watch what happened late in games against Bama (79 snaps). Florida (71) and aggy (78 in regulation, 107 total).  Running tempo against a peer means your defense will likely have to defend as many snaps as your offense gets.  Orgeron is targeting 75-80 snaps and I'm sure Tom Herman will be happy to accommodate him.

Go back and look at how gassed the OL looked even in the 2nd Q against GA So.  LSU has some really overweight linemen on both sides of the ball - especially the OGs and NTs.  What is Ika or Shelvin going to look like after chasing down screens, outside zone and being forced to pass rush  for 10 plays on a drive with no chance to sub out?  Preventing defensive rotation is one reason Herman likes to stick with 11 personnel and play the TE as either a flex or H-back to get different formation looks.

LSU's defense is 22 deep this year. We couldn't say that last year. If you watched the GA Southern game you saw us sub at literally every position on the field. So late game attrition shouldn't be much of a problem for us this year. 

"LSU has some really overweight linemen on both sides of the ballLSU has some really overweight linemen on both sides of the ball"

This is a fallacy. Our OL is actually slightly smaller than OUs. And yes while I would like to see our NTs shed a few pounds, they're highly effective when it comes to SEC play. We're also 3 deep at that position as well. (Shelvin, Ika, Fehoko).

OU OL Starter Averages: Height = 6'4.8 & Weight = 323.6 lbs

LSU OL Starter Averages: Height = 6'4.4 & Weight = 321.4 lbs

Edited September 6, 2019 by DayHeGeaux
Edit

[Girdwood 118]

1 hour ago, DayHeGeaux said:

LSU's defense is 22 deep this year. We couldn't say that last year. If you watched the GA Southern game you saw us sub at literally every position on the field. So late game attrition shouldn't be much of a problem for us this year. 

"LSU has some really overweight linemen on both sides of the ballLSU has some really overweight linemen on both sides of the ball"

This is a fallacy. Our OL is actually slightly smaller than OUs. And yes while I would like to see our NTs shed a few pounds, they're highly effective when it comes to SEC play. We're also 3 deep at that position as well. (Shelvin, Ika, Fehoko).

OU OL Starter Averages: Height = 6'4.8 & Weight = 323.6 lbs

LSU OL Starter Averages: Height = 6'4.4 & Weight = 321.4 lbs

Lol. 22 deep.

[ShadyTiger4TX 11]

6 hours ago, sushihorn said:

 

I think that LSU's defense is going to be a lot less effective than their fanbase believes - especially late in the game.  Last season they showed a tendency to falter anytime the play count got over 70.  Watch what happened late in games against Bama (79 snaps). Florida (71) and aggy (78 in regulation, 107 total).  Running tempo against a peer means your defense will likely have to defend as many snaps as your offense gets.  Orgeron is targeting 75-80 snaps and I'm sure Tom Herman will be happy to accommodate him.

Go back and look at how gassed the OL looked even in the 2nd Q against GA So.  LSU has some really overweight linemen on both sides of the ball - especially the OGs and NTs.  What is Ika or Shelvin going to look like after chasing down screens, outside zone and being forced to pass rush  for 10 plays on a drive with no chance to sub out?  Preventing defensive rotation is one reason Herman likes to stick with 11 personnel and play the TE as either a flex or H-back to get different formation looks.

I like this you always got numbers to back up what you're saying and I appreciate it. But those don't always tell the story. Bama was probably the best offense last year in college for the most part and without almost any support from the offense and missing our best player on D for half the game and two of our top 3 beat players for the whole game.  And our defense still slowed them down better than anyone until they played Clemson. 

For Florida they were the only team to just be able to run it down our throats and even then the defense at the end of the game did more than enough to where LSU should've won. Burrow threw a pick 6 then a pick a few plays later to seal it. But even getting torched the defense pulled it together to put them in a position to win without major offense mistakes.

And same for Aggys, LSU was in full control of that game from start til right at the end where an aggy mistake got them a redo and that did lead to poor busted coverage. But in OT, I was at a bar with a Notre Dame fan and a few Bama fans and even they can admit there were at least 2 bad missed calls that one led directly to the OT being extended. And a non existent PI call that sealed the game for them.  All of those games LSU should've won minus Bama and those were the defenses "weaker" games. 

Numbers can't tell the whole story. But when it matters more often than not the defense will take over and either seal the game or give the offense a chance. Not saying what you said is invalid because it very well could out to be the case. But for the past few decades, more often than not, unless its bama..*sigh*  LSUs defense controls the game. 

[HtownHorn 14468]

2 hours ago, Girdwood said:

Lol. 22 deep.

Does this dumbass know, you are only allowed to travel 70. Not sure how that cuts into a 22 deep defense, but basic math says a lot.

[Huckleberry 32694]

2 hours ago, Girdwood said:

Lol. 22 deep.

 

7 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Does this dumbass know, you are only allowed to travel 70. Not sure how that cuts into a 22 deep defense, but basic math says a lot.

He's serious. They have 242 defenders they're comfortable playing. 

[ShadyTiger4TX 11]

6 hours ago, po elvis said:

Facing SEC offenses year after year will make you overconfident about your defense.

We get this every year too. Which is kinda redundant last year since Alabama was considered one of the best offenses. 

But one that  especially that stands out was Oregon in 2011. Talking about how LSU has never faced an offense like theirs and they're the most explosive in the country. Or WVU the same year...and the year after it. Louisville with Lamar Jackson.. and so on. 

[bigcigar 1161]

Maybe we should break it down differently for the corn dogs.

Let’s pretend you’re playing big brother (Bama for you). Your offense can’t move the ball effectively on the ground and you’re not even attempting passes further than 10 yards downfield. How do you think Bama responds when all your passes are short or check downs? I’d wager, with their level of athletes, they can probably key in on that and shut it the fuck down.

It’s not rocket science. You out talented a bad team while running an extemely one dimensional offense. We’ve seen a lot of one dimensional offense in our days. The Colt years would have been far more dominant if we had better oline play and a consistent running game. We required an incredibly accurate, smart QB with 3-4 years in the system to make that offense hum. Even it broke down when the oline couldn’t give him time to throw or move the ball consistently on the ground (Neb, OU 2009).

OU sucks, but they suck even more when they’re forced to be one dimensional. That’s how Texas built a 21 point lead last October. The weakness of a Leach coached team / pure air raid team is that it’s one dimensional. Baylor got good offensively not from being pass happy, but having a great running game while ripping your heart out with the passing game. 

Good defenses punish one dimensional offense. Texas struggles defensively last year came against teams that could run the ball and throw the ball.

If your fatball oline can’t move the ball on the ground, they’re not repeating last week’s performance. Oline play in the run and the pass is the key to spread success.

Edited September 6, 2019 by bigcigar

[ShadyTiger4TX 11]

No one expects them to do what they did last week. We just expect them to be able to be consistent and not disappear during the game. 

[bigcigar 1161]

1 hour ago, ShadyTiger4TX said:

No one expects them to do what they did last week. We just expect them to be able to be consistent and not disappear during the game. 

Maybe you don’t, but I’m pretty sure most of your fans (and apparently your players) do.

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

12 hours ago, Deej said:

Installing a new offense always goes seamlessly. Texas by two touchdowns.

THIS - I've seen so many hot takes about this game that see the stats from Georgia Southern and conclude their offense is basically Oklahoma.  

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

1 hour ago, ShadyTiger4TX said:

No one expects them to do what they did last week. We just expect them to be able to be consistent and not disappear during the game. 

Maybe tell that to your linebackers who are running their mouths all over Twitter

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

9 hours ago, ShadyTiger4TX said:

I'll say you do bring up some good points, our Oline and breaking in a new offense against the Texas defense can be where its won or lost.

But if feels like a lot of you if not most of you are selling LSU short. LSU knows how to win without the offense taking over or being dominant. And while it's new schemes it's still stuff a lot of the players have been doing for years with LSU just more variety now. This will be the first time implementing certain specific schemes. But there's still plenty of stuff they've been doing already just opened up more. And a lot of these players have experience doing it against defenses better than Texas like Alabama and Mississippi State last year. Not saying that plays a major role but a lot of the key  players have had to do this against good defenses. And minus the Alabama game, worse Olines and lesser running backs have still got it done against better defenses.

The reason LSU fans are so confident maybe even to a fault about this game is the same reason we have been for the better part of the last decade. The defense. Boils down to the simplest reason. We believe our defense can shut down that offense better than Texas can shut down LSUs. Point blank. Which  sounds like a "no shit" football statement. But that's what it is. We feel our defense is good enough to make up for any stumbling the offense does. 

 

You want over simplistic analysis? The reason I'm so confident on the flip side is that I believe Texas will be able to win both lines of scrimmage.  Your OL is trash and TX's OL can win the battle against your DL.  Games are won and lost in the trenches - there is your cliche.

[thedentist45 4]

14 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

THIS - I've seen so many hot takes about this game that see the stats from Georgia Southern and conclude their offense is basically Oklahoma.  

I'd say my biggest worry (as a tiger fan) is about the new offense. I am less concerned with pressure from Texas and more concerned with them showing pressure to bait quick throws. If they confuse Burrow and get the quick throw because his read is wrong, I can see throws to Texas LB's dropping into the areas where Joe is looking to throw slants. Could turn into pick 6 real easy.

[DayHeGeaux 72]

3 hours ago, bigcigar said:

Maybe we should break it down differently for the corn dogs.

Let’s pretend you’re playing big brother (Bama for you). Your offense can’t move the ball effectively on the ground and you’re not even attempting passes further than 10 yards downfield. How do you think Bama responds when all your passes are short or check downs? I’d wager, with their level of athletes, they can probably key in on that and shut it the fuck down.

It’s not rocket science. You out talented a bad team while running an extemely one dimensional offense. We’ve seen a lot of one dimensional offense in our days. The Colt years would have been far more dominant if we had better oline play and a consistent running game. We required an incredibly accurate, smart QB with 3-4 years in the system to make that offense hum. Even it broke down when the oline couldn’t give him time to throw or move the ball consistently on the ground (Neb, OU 2009).

OU sucks, but they suck even more when they’re forced to be one dimensional. That’s how Texas built a 21 point lead last October. The weakness of a Leach coached team / pure air raid team is that it’s one dimensional. Baylor got good offensively not from being pass happy, but having a great running game while ripping your heart out with the passing game. 

Good defenses punish one dimensional offense. Texas struggles defensively last year came against teams that could run the ball and throw the ball.

If your fatball oline can’t move the ball on the ground, they’re not repeating last week’s performance. Oline play in the run and the pass is the key to spread success.

If you want to play the pretend game: Can we pretend to be OU, OSU, WV, and TT?

320.75 passing yards allowed vs these teams. Texas' pass defense was ranked 110th last year. You defense is more bend but don't break vs shutdown.

[Deguello 54]

11 minutes ago, DayHeGeaux said:

If you want to play the pretend game: Can we pretend to be OU, OSU, WV, and TT?

320.75 passing yards allowed vs these teams. Texas' pass defense was ranked 110th last year. You defense is more bend but don't break vs shutdown.

You can pretend... though none of those teams were playing their first P5 team on the road in their new system. 

[BigBenBamboozle 1948]

18 minutes ago, DayHeGeaux said:

If you want to play the pretend game: Can we pretend to be OU, OSU, WV, and TT?

320.75 passing yards allowed vs these teams. Texas' pass defense was ranked 110th last year. You defense is more bend but don't break vs shutdown.

Sooooo, the continued offensive systems of Riley, Gundy, Holgo, and Kliffsbury? Is that a good comparison to this LSU offense that had all of three passes of 10+ yards last week? 

Edited September 6, 2019 by BigBenBamboozle

[Valmy77 13093]

23 minutes ago, DayHeGeaux said:

If you want to play the pretend game: Can we pretend to be OU, OSU, WV, and TT?

320.75 passing yards allowed vs these teams. Texas' pass defense was ranked 110th last year. You defense is more bend but don't break vs shutdown.

That is not untrue. If LSU can execute like those teams we will give up yards.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Valmy77

[ShadyTiger4TX 11]

1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

You want over simplistic analysis? The reason I'm so confident on the flip side is that I believe Texas will be able to win both lines of scrimmage.  Your OL is trash and TX's OL can win the battle against your DL.  Games are won and lost in the trenches - there is your cliche.

I'll give you Texas can get pressure on the Oline.

But  when it comes to Texas Oline vs LSU defense, Texas Oline spends most of the game getting pushed into Sam's lap. 

I'm not saying that with high belief in LSUs Oline I'm saying it more towards the fact that LSUs Dline should own this matchup. 

[sushihorn 3233]

3 hours ago, ShadyTiger4TX said:

I like this you always got numbers to back up what you're saying and I appreciate it. But those don't always tell the story. Bama was probably the best offense last year in college for the most part and without almost any support from the offense and missing our best player on D for half the game and two of our top 3 beat players for the whole game.  And our defense still slowed them down better than anyone until they played Clemson. 

For Florida they were the only team to just be able to run it down our throats and even then the defense at the end of the game did more than enough to where LSU should've won. Burrow threw a pick 6 then a pick a few plays later to seal it. But even getting torched the defense pulled it together to put them in a position to win without major offense mistakes.

And same for Aggys, LSU was in full control of that game from start til right at the end where an aggy mistake got them a redo and that did lead to poor busted coverage. But in OT, I was at a bar with a Notre Dame fan and a few Bama fans and even they can admit there were at least 2 bad missed calls that one led directly to the OT being extended. And a non existent PI call that sealed the game for them.  All of those games LSU should've won minus Bama and those were the defenses "weaker" games. 

Numbers can't tell the whole story. But when it matters more often than not the defense will take over and either seal the game or give the offense a chance. Not saying what you said is invalid because it very well could out to be the case. But for the past few decades, more often than not, unless its bama..*sigh*  LSUs defense controls the game. 

I'm glad you enjoyed the numbers; I've been a quant guy my whole life.  I went back and looked at the numbers in detail once the pattern became apparent.  In competitive games last year, the LSU defense typically saw a significant downtick in performance around the 45-50 snaps defended mark.  The 70 snaps I cited earlier simply gave enough time after that point to have a large impact on the final results.  But it was actually part of a larger pattern on further examination.  Detailed results are posted in the LSU Defense discussion thread:

 

[Deguello 54]

6 minutes ago, ShadyTiger4TX said:

I'll give you Texas can get pressure on the Oline.

But  when it comes to Texas Oline vs LSU defense, Texas Oline spends most of the game getting pushed into Sam's lap. 

I'm not saying that with high belief in LSUs Oline I'm saying it more towards the fact that LSUs Dline should own this matchup. 

I think you might be unpleasantly surprised at what Hand, and others, have going on with the OL. 

[Girdwood 118]

4 minutes ago, ShadyTiger4TX said:

I'll give you Texas can get pressure on the Oline.

But  when it comes to Texas Oline vs LSU defense, Texas Oline spends most of the game getting pushed into Sam's lap. 

I'm not saying that with high belief in LSUs Oline I'm saying it more towards the fact that LSUs Dline should own this matchup. 

Remember when the Georgia DL was going to abuse our OL in the Sugar Bowl? It’s all anyone could talk about leading up to the game. It wasn’t presented as opinion, but a foregone conclusion. Sound familiar?

But yes, my mistake, I forgot they didn’t want to be there that day so it didn’t count. 

[Huckleberry 32694]

4 hours ago, ShadyTiger4TX said:

We get this every year too. Which is kinda redundant last year since Alabama was considered one of the best offenses. 

But one that  especially that stands out was Oregon in 2011. Talking about how LSU has never faced an offense like theirs and they're the most explosive in the country. Or WVU the same year...and the year after it. Louisville with Lamar Jackson.. and so on. 

Alabama gained 576 yards at 7.3 yards per play. I don't think that reference says what you want it to say.

[Katfid54 8591]

28 minutes ago, ShadyTiger4TX said:

I'll give you Texas can get pressure on the Oline.

But  when it comes to Texas Oline vs LSU defense, Texas Oline spends most of the game getting pushed into Sam's lap. 

I'm not saying that with high belief in LSUs Oline I'm saying it more towards the fact that LSUs Dline should own this matchup. 

I think this is right.  Both DLs are better than their OL adversaries.  Although I posit that the gap of Texas' DL over LSU's is wider than the gap of LSU's DL over Texas' OL.  LSU's oline sucks.

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Katfid54

[bigcigar 1161]

55 minutes ago, DayHeGeaux said:

If you want to play the pretend game: Can we pretend to be OU, OSU, WV, and TT?

320.75 passing yards allowed vs these teams. Texas' pass defense was ranked 110th last year. You defense is more bend but don't break vs shutdown.

Yeah, you missed the point dumbass. Tech/OU began to run the ball effectively in the 4th quarter comebacks. They didn’t do shit being one dimensional before that. Those efforts were also aided by protect lead ball and offensive ineffectiveness.

The only way LSU has a chance to win is if they can execute more than one aspect of their offense. They didn’t do that against GSO.

[GoldAppleCorps 617]

27 minutes ago, ShadyTiger4TX said:

I'll give you Texas can get pressure on the Oline.

But  when it comes to Texas Oline vs LSU defense, Texas Oline spends most of the game getting pushed into Sam's lap. 

I'm not saying that with high belief in LSUs Oline I'm saying it more towards the fact that LSUs Dline should own this matchup. 

No realistic Texas fan doubts the LSU defense. This may be the most complete defense we've seen in a long time. Last week, Texas fans saw that their OL could hold up against token competition. This week, of course, limits will be tested. No one expects a flawless performance. LSU's defense will win a fair amount of plays.

What you need to remember about the spread is that the play is won before the snap. The spread, well, spreads out the defense. The QB is in shotgun. The offensive alignment is designed to stress every area of the defense, and isolate them into 1 on 1 matchups. When the defense aligns, the QB and receivers are supposed to recognize the alignment. When the play is run, the QB attacks the part of the defense where the offense wins the matchup.

The 5 Texas OL don't have to win battle after battle against 5 LSU defenders. They will add TEs or sweeps until LSU spins down another defender to attack outside with swing passes. They just have to be credible.

The secret to defending the spread is to not stop moving. The offense wins before the ball is snapped by reading alignments. If the defense doesn't align, the offense can't read it. UGA learned this last year against a vastly inferior (we allege) Texas OL. Texas would not win against a straight up, push-them-around, he-man football. Fortunately, we don't aim to pit strength on strength. I'm in no way predicting an easy day for the Texas offense. Quite the opposite. This will be a long, grueling effort focused on ball security and first downs.

[Foosters 17725]

49 minutes ago, ShadyTiger4TX said:

I'll give you Texas can get pressure on the Oline.

But  when it comes to Texas Oline vs LSU defense, Texas Oline spends most of the game getting pushed into Sam's lap. 

I'm not saying that with high belief in LSUs Oline I'm saying it more towards the fact that LSUs Dline should own this matchup. 

Honest question: how does your DL compare to UGA's last year?

Bc we fucked that DL up.

[sushihorn 3233]

LSU is not OU - in either phase of the offense.  The Sooners have a rep as a passing team and they fully deserve it.  But they were also one of the best running teams in the country at 6.6 YPC in 2018.  LSU had a rep as a running team that was not deserved at an average of 4.0 YPC.  This year the divergence is even larger.  LSU went 3.7 YPC against GA So.  OU faced a better opponent in Houston and ran for 9.6 YPC against them.

Fortunately for LSU they don't have OU's defense either.

They showed me no ability to run the ball or to stop penetration on pass plays even against GA So.  They offset the protection issues largely by first read quick throws off a 3 step drop or shotgun equivalent.  There was no way to hide the penetration problem on running plays.  If they cannot run the ball consistently against Texas and cannot protect Burrow for downfield throws they are left with a short passing game only.  They will need Burrow to be more accurate than he was in Game 1 or a repeat of the +4 TO margin and special teams play they got against UGa last year to walk out with the win if that happens.

Edited September 6, 2019 by sushihorn

[Burt Macklin 18989]

1 hour ago, DayHeGeaux said:

If you want to play the pretend game: Can we pretend to be OU, OSU, WV, and TT?

No. You can’t, dumbass. That’s the whole point. Your offense won’t give us any where near the trouble they give us.

1 hour ago, DayHeGeaux said:

320.75 passing yards allowed vs these teams. Texas' pass defense was ranked 110th last year. You defense is more bend but don't break vs shutdown.

This is one of my favorite SEC myths. What all these stupid LSU and SEC homers don’t understand is that it’s impossible not to give up yards to offenses that are as good as those.  LSU’s defense would give up a ton of yards, too. You don’t have a choice but to give up yards in one phase of the game. If you try to take everything away, those offenses will kill you. Orlando chooses to shut down the run and make those teams one dimensional. So would Aranda if he were in the Big 12. 

Look at what UT’s done to Mizzou in 2017 (best offense in the SEC and UT didn’t have 3 of its top 5 defensive starters playing). We demolished them, forced 4 turnovers, and our defense scored a TD and got a safety, so our defense functionally only gave up 7 points and that was with a bad UT offense that had a lot of 3 and outs. Again, this was against the #1 offense in the SEC in 2017.

We killed UGA, forced turnovers and only gave up yards and points late when Orlando switched to a prevent to run out the clock. 

Now, look at LSU against spread offenses: Bama - 576 yds, 7.3 per play. Hell, even LA Tech put up 417 at 5.5. We held them to 413 at 5.2 and about half of that was in garbage time with our backups. In case you forgot, y’all never had any garbage time against LA Tech because it was a 3 point game in the 4th quarter. The only other spread team (and when I say spread, I mean a team that can pass and run, not these one-dimensional shit offenses y’all get to play, like Miss St. and UF) you faced all year was UCF with a backup QB, so those stats are meaningless because Milton was their whole offense. So yeah, y’all hardly ever get challenged on defense by a true dual threat spread team, which is why you think your defense is so much better than UT’s every year.

Reality is it’s not. 

If Orlando/UT were in the SEC, we’d have had a “shutdown” defense the last two years. If LSU/Aranda were in the Big 12, y’all would’ve had a “bend but don’t break” defense and your defense probably would’ve done a lot more breaking.

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Burt Macklin

[GoldAppleCorps 617]

26 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

...

They showed me no ability to run the ball or to stop penetration on pass plays even against GA So.  They offset the protection issues largely by first read quick throws off a 3 step drop or shotgun equivalent.  There was no way to hide the penetration problem on running plays.  If they cannot run the ball consistently against Texas and cannot protect Burrow for downfield throws they are left with a short passing game only.  They will need Burrow to be more accurate than he was in Game 1 or a repeat of the +4 TO margin and special teams play they got against UGa last year to walk out with the win if that happens.

<emphasis added>

This is a thought. The analyses I've seen (very good ones) seem to show Burrow's success almost exclusively off his primary read. Burrow is clearly not a tomato can. He obviously studies film and knows the process. His mechanics aren't terrible. When the play happens the way he thought it would, he can execute it.

When GSU managed to muddle his first option (either by design or blind luck), his decision making seemed to devolve. The passes floated. His mechanics got goofy. Worse, he seems to always want to make a play - and that play should be in the middle of the field (after all, that's where you have the most guys, right?). Sam's biggest advancement last season was the realization that sometimes the defense wins. Burn the ball out of bounds (no problem missing long on a back shoulder fade - use the sideline to your advantage). Tuck it and bash. Heck, taking a sack reserves the right to another play.

What makes the spread so deadly is the progression of options. If the defense took away option #1, well, they don't probably have enough guys for option #2. That option tripped on his shoelaces. Option #3 got blocked by his man. At this point, a good spread QB knows he's out of time. If option #1 hasn't miracled himself open, then aim for the Gatorade table.

[sushihorn 3233]

9 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

No. You can’t, dumbass. That’s the whole point. Your offense won’t give us any where near the trouble they give us.

This is one of my favorite SEC myths. What all these stupid LSU and SEC homers don’t understand is that it’s impossible not to give up yards to offenses that are as good as those one.  LSU’s defense would give up a ton of yards, too. You don’t have a choice but to give up yards in one phase of the game. If you try to take everything away, those offenses will kill you. Orlando chooses to shit down the run and make those teams one dimensional. So would Aranda if he were in the Big 12. 

Look at what UT’s done to Mizzou in 2017 (best offense in the SEC and UT didn’t have 3 of its top 5 defensive starters playing). We demolished them, forced 4 turnovers, and our defense scored a TD and got a safety, so our defense functionally only gave up 7 points and that was with a bad UT offense that had a lot of 3 and ours. Again, this was against the #1 offense in the SEC aim 2017.

We killed UGA, forced turnovers and only gave up yards and points late when Orlando switched to a prevent to run out the clock. 

Now, look at LSU against spread offenses: Bama - 576 yds, 7.3 per play. Hell, even LA Tech put up 417 at 5.5. We held them to 413 at 5.2 and about half of that was in garbage time with our backups. In case you forgot, y’all never had any garbage time against LA Tech because it was a 3 point game in the 4th quarter. The only other spread team (and when I say spread, I mean a team that can pass and run, not these one-dimensional shit offenses y’all get to play, like Miss St. and UF) you faced all year was UCF with a backup QB, so those stats are meaningless because Milton was their whole offense. So yeah, y’all hardly ever get challenged on defense by a true dual threat spread team, which is why you think your defense is so much better than UT’s every year.

Reality is, it’s not. 

If Orlando/UT were in the SEC, we’d have had a “shutdown” defense the last two years. If LSU/Aranda were in the Big 12, y’all would’ve had a “bend but don’t break” defense and your defense probably would’ve done a lot more breaking.

 

Damn straight.  Anyone who thinks yielding points and yards to great offenses is a sign of bad defense isn't watching the game or is smoking too much ganja while in front of their TV.  We have consecutive games by OU and UGa last year that make an easy comparison.

Alabama's defense was SLIGHTLY better than Texas vs OU.  Tide was 37 yards and 3 points better one game later.

Texas' defense was SIGNIFICANTLY better than Bama's vs Georgia.  Horns were 165 yards and 7 points better than Bama in the very next game.

A lot of unfounded claims are being made that have to ignore a mass of evidence.  I can only assume the media brainwashing is on full display here.  Based on actual results against common opponents, the Texas defense was fully equivalent to Bama's if not better.  It's hard to understand where the silly mythology comes from other than pure propaganda.

[Katfid54 8591]

2 minutes ago, GoldAppleCorps said:

<emphasis added>

This is a thought. The analyses I've seen (very good ones) seem to show Burrow's success almost exclusively off his primary read. Burrow is clearly not a tomato can. He obviously studies film and knows the process. His mechanics aren't terrible. When the play happens the way he thought it would, he can execute it.

When GSU managed to muddle his first option (either by design or blind luck), his decision making seemed to devolve. The passes floated. His mechanics got goofy. Worse, he seems to always want to make a play - and that play should be in the middle of the field (after all, that's where you have the most guys, right?). Sam's biggest advancement last season was the realization that sometimes the defense wins. Burn the ball out of bounds (no problem missing long on a back shoulder fade - use the sideline to your advantage). Tuck it and bash. Heck, taking a sack reserves the right to another play.

What makes the spread so deadly is the progression of options. If the defense took away option #1, well, they don't probably have enough guys for option #2. That option tripped on his shoelaces. Option #3 got blocked by his man. At this point, a good spread QB knows he's out of time. If option #1 hasn't miracled himself open, then aim for the Gatorade table.

I'm not sure I would entirely agree with this.  I will say that Burrow showed very little ability to walk through a progression in what I saw.  But he is more than willing to see his first option covered up and dump the ball down to an outlet RB sitting right at the line of scrimmage.  When the outlet receiver is covered up, Burrow has a very difficult time making good decisions with the ball.

[Burt Macklin 18989]

1 minute ago, GoldAppleCorps said:

<emphasis added>

This is a thought. The analyses I've seen (very good ones) seem to show Burrow's success almost exclusively off his primary read. Burrow is clearly not a tomato can. He obviously studies film and knows the process. His mechanics aren't terrible. When the play happens the way he thought it would, he can execute it.

When GSU managed to muddle his first option (either by design or blind luck), his decision making seemed to devolve. The passes floated. His mechanics got goofy. Worse, he seems to always want to make a play - and that play should be in the middle of the field (after all, that's where you have the most guys, right?). Sam's biggest advancement last season was the realization that sometimes the defense wins. Burn the ball out of bounds (no problem missing long on a back shoulder fade - use the sideline to your advantage). Tuck it and bash. Heck, taking a sack reserves the right to another play.

What makes the spread so deadly is the progression of options. If the defense took away option #1, well, they don't probably have enough guys for option #2. That option tripped on his shoelaces. Option #3 got blocked by his man. At this point, a good spread QB knows he's out of time. If option #1 hasn't miracled himself open, then aim for the Gatorade table.

This has been a theme for Burrow. If you get pressure and the first read or is easy check down isn’t there, he becomes very likely to commit TOs. He makes questionable throws and had 5 fumbles last year.

[Longhornlove 4779]

18 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

This has been a theme for Burrow. If you get pressure and the first read or is easy check down isn’t there, he becomes very likely to commit TOs. He makes questionable throws and had 5 fumbles last year.

Not sure we get too many picks from him, he has only 5 INT in his career granted last year was pretty much his career.

[Burt Macklin 18989]

4 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

Not sure we get too many picks from him, he has only 5 INT in his career granted last year was pretty much his career.

He throws a lot of bad balls when under pressure. If the pocket is clean, he’s accurate and doesn’t throw picks, but when pressure starts, he makes some really questionable decisions.

[bigcigar 1161]

33 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

Texas' defense was SIGNIFICANTLY better than Bama's vs Georgia.  Horns were 165 yards and 7 points better than Bama in the very next game.

Not a good comparison. Georgia didn’t want to be there.

[Zavala 1384]

ESPN's FPI gives Texas only a 20% chance to win.

Fold it up boys, not even worth playing the game at this point.

SECSECSEC

[sushihorn 3233]

14 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

He throws a lot of bad balls when under pressure. If the pocket is clean, he’s accurate and doesn’t throw picks, but when pressure starts, he makes some really questionable decisions.

Absolutely correct.  Burrow was only under pressure to make a play in the passing game 3 times last season: Florida (2 INTSs), Bama (1 INT) and aggy (#108 pass efficiency D).

[Funk Doctor Spock 11918]

Got I can't wait for these fuck tard tiger fans to leave Austin after getting their asses beat and cry about how they didn't want to be there. 

[DayHeGeaux 72]

2 hours ago, bigcigar said:

Yeah, you missed the point dumbass. Tech/OU began to run the ball effectively in the 4th quarter comebacks. They didn’t do shit being one dimensional before that. Those efforts were also aided by protect lead ball and offensive ineffectiveness.

The only way LSU has a chance to win is if they can execute more than one aspect of their offense. They didn’t do that against GSO.

 

Texas needs their DBs to generate QB pressure and/or a pass rush, which leaves them vulnerable to quick & accurate passing attacks. 

Where as Alabama generates QB pressure with their DL, freeing up everybody else.

So you guys are dying on this “LSU can’t run the ball” hill based off of 1 blowout game?

[Deguello 54]

LSU couldn’t run the ball against Georgia Southern. Whether LSU “can’t” run the ball needs more data, but the early results aren’t favorable. 

[DayHeGeaux 72]

12 minutes ago, Spider2YBanana said:

Got I can't wait for these fuck tard tiger fans to leave Austin after getting their asses beat and cry about how they didn't want to be there. 

After we beat Texas tomorrow all I want to hear from you is “Good game and Geaux Tigers”