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The partisan division in the United States - organic or by design?

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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I was in a conversation with a buddy of mine that’s about to run for office next year and he can’t overcome the stigma associated with running as an R or a D.  There’s a political cost for him in either scenario and he’s frustrated that people can’t just evaluate him on his merits and qualifications. 

We got to talking about how politics has become such a team sport over the last few decades and if it’s been a slow process of deliberate division by the powers that be under a divide and conquer strategy.  

Intentional polarization as a political strategy to isolate/neutralize any kind of revolutionary movement that might transcend party politics.  

The thesis question:  Are we past the point when a presidential candidate from either party could unify democrats and republicans in a sweeping landslide election?

 

presidential-election-results-1952-2012.

 

It seems like the GOP and their media allies have gone all in on polarization as a political strategy out of desperation to remain relevant and neutralize the political power of the democrats. 

It’s remarkable how well the United States has been surgically cut up among partisan and ideological lines.  It’s almost like it was by design.  

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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1 minute ago, bernorange said:

Oh look, another thread where Hugo is looking for a Bogeyman.

Oh he has a few. Russians, republicans, people who aren't gullible.  

Pose a question about polarization, and throw out that it's only one side who engages in the practice

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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The fundraising patterns and voting record (on all but a few marquee bills) of the middle 3 quintiles is frighteningly similar in this country.  You think you could distinguish the difference, but you couldn't.  

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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13 minutes ago, bernorange said:

Oh look, another thread where Hugo is looking for a Bogeyman.

Not looking for a Bogeyman because blame is irrelevant at this point.  Ultimately we have no one to blame but ourselves for failing to defend our society from bad actors, foreign or domestic. 

This is more about potential solutions to an easily identifiable problem. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18924

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2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Not looking for a Bogeyman because blame is irrelevant at this point.  Ultimately we have no one to blame but ourselves for failing to defend our society from bad actors, foreign or domestic. 

This is more about potential solutions to an easily identifiable problem. 

What's the solution for one of the two major political parties in this country being rotten to the core?

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

It's fun when people who support the Republican Party pretend it's not the the Republican Party that's the problem.

In my view, the democrats have tried to at least create the appearance of appealing to our better angels and draw the widest appeal.  As of late the Republicans have done a good job of exploiting that perception by making the democrats look weak, conciliatory, and shallow in their convictions.  Democrats have done a good job of playing into those narratives by being weak when pressed. 

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bernorange

bernorange 8362

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4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

...

This is more about potential solutions to an easily identifiable problem. 

Uh huh.  Your OP is not a serious inquiry into the history or nature of political polarization.  You aren't going to solve anything if you don't understand the problem. 

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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3 minutes ago, elfenix said:

onboard chiding people looking for a boogeyman

faf.jpg

I'm sorry Hugo poses a question about why there's polarization than blames the entire thing on republicans. Yeah, I'm chiding his empty premise.  But hey go ahead and jump on his band wagon with 3 wheels.

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Zavala

Zavala 1384

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26 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m surprised the “we need a third party” crowd hasn’t weighed in yet. 

tongue tied

34565.jpg

But seriously, politics is a well-coordinated entertainment show to keep people distracted. One side plays the 'hero', one side plays the 'heel'. Question is, who is the eye at the top of the pyramid pulling the strings?

imgur
/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

Russians!

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585

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It's division by design on the GOP's part. The Republican braintrust knows all that is required to pull the puppet strings of their base are professional wrestling-levels of theatrics- monolithic, drama queen outrage even when it comes to opposing policies they once advocated such as the ACA or Cap and Trade. Boehner was about as candid as you could get once he assumed the Speaker's chair. It's the GOP's lifeblood to turn this country into a melodramatic "reality" show, deliberately pitting one group of Americans against another, to distract from the ludicrous concentration of wealth at the top from which almost all other problems in this country, to one degree or another, spring.

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GW Hayduke

GW Hayduke 1953

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1 minute ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

It's division by design on the GOP's part. The Republican braintrust knows all that is required to pull the puppet strings of their base are professional wrestling-levels of theatrics- monolithic, drama queen outrage even when it comes to opposing policies they once advocated such as the ACA or Cap and Trade. Boehner was about as candid as you could get once he assumed the Speaker's chair. It's the GOP's lifeblood to turn this country into a melodramatic "reality" show, deliberately pitting one group of Americans against another, to distract from the ludicrous concentration of wealth at the top from which almost all other problems in this country, to one degree or another, spring.

This.

There is huge voter block in the US that is incapable of holding GOP politicians accountable. That voter block has been captured by right wing propaganda and the “culture war” to support politicians that act counter to their interests.

The classic Fox News, talk radio propaganda has become amplified further into crazy and conspiracy as the online, Facebook, psyops, Cambridge Analytica stuff has taken off.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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10 minutes ago, bernorange said:

Uh huh.  Your OP is not a serious inquiry into the history or nature of political polarization.  You aren't going to solve anything if you don't understand the problem. 

I would like to understand the problem more but it’s difficult to articulate without assigning some blame to a “boogeyman” or get accused of tilting windmills by people like you.

I happen to believe it’s not just a few bad actors but an entire self perpetuating machine of greed and corruption that preys on the vulnerability and ignorance of the population.  Moreover there are some identifiable malicious bad actors that exacerbate the problems and some do it as a political strategy.

It’s similar to asking how we got Donald Trump as president.  There are many reasons but the bottom line is the gatekeepers in our society chose to continue to elevate one of the worst people in America until he became President.   Trump represents the most immediate example that our society is deeply flawed going back over a long period of time.  Our society fails to elevate the best and brightest among us to positions of power/influence and instead opts for people that will at least entertain us.  Overcoming this is among our most significant challenges, in my view.

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Parliament

Parliament 14261

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Our Constitution was written in part to make government action "hard." Electoral College, two Houses of Congress who are supposed to do the same thing, but have different motivations. A strong Judicial branch, and then 50 MORE governments (the States) to deal with.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but much of what we're seeing is intentional. As stated above, it's a feature, not a glitch.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

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1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Abolish the electoral college. 

 

We should absolutely do that.  More importantly though, we should ban political parties.

Every candidate should have their own platform.  If you want to run for office, you get the requisite number of constituent signatures to get on the ballot which varies depending on the office.  Instead of primaries, round 1 is authenticated web based voting where all you see is a list of candidates and their personal platform.  The order is randomized for each voter so that alphabetization doesn't favor some candidates over others.  Voters are able search the platforms so they can find candidates that suit their views.  Round 2 is a top 10 and still web based.  Round 3 is a top 5 where each candidate gets public funding.  All other funding is banned.  Round 3 votes are ranked choice voting.  50% of the vote is required to win.

Volunteers and endorsements can't come from outside of your constituency either.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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20 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Our Constitution was written in part to make government action "hard." Electoral College, two Houses of Congress who are supposed to do the same thing, but have different motivations. A strong Judicial branch, and then 50 MORE governments (the States) to deal with.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but much of what we're seeing is intentional. As stated above, it's a feature, not a glitch.

The “republic” part of our democracy was supposed to be a safeguard against factions and the danger of pure partisan politics, at least according to Madison.

Those safeguards get obliterated when our elected officials and judges put party over country/constitution and the voters fail to swiftly hold them accountable. 

The constitution only makes the consolidation/centralization of power challenging when there is a good faith allegiance to the constitution by the elected officials sworn to uphold it. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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To answer the question yes it’s by design. And to address the trolls gripes, no it’s not just the republicans doing it but they’ve been the most consistent about it for at least the last 40 years. 

For example the absolutely horrendous 2005 bankruptcy reform bill was a bipartisan affair mainly supported by republicans but would not have passed without democratic support. That bill is a pretty good reflection on where the parties stand on trying to divide the country. That bill literally divided the country in half and has no doubt slowed the recovery from the 2008 crash to the benefit of the banks at the expense of everyone else. 

Similar to that bankruptcy bill bullshit is NAFTA. Supported by Clinton and enough dems to join forces with overwhelming republican support. One can debate the merits of it but it no doubt greatly benefited corporations at the expense to what would eventually become a bunch of trump voters. 

The division used to be white versus black. That’s been in place for centuries. It’s still around but not quite as effective, so red versus blue has been inserted into the lexicon to take its place. And just like white versus black did originally, red versus blue is working out far better than the owners could have ever dreamed. 

How to counter it? For one you should stop referring to dems as blue and republicans as red. The crips and bloods had different colors for a reason. Same as the British redcoats and eventually the blue coats worn by the continental army. Color is one of the first things we learn. It matters. 

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immamac

immamac 42868

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guys our president just called one of the major metro areas and essentially a suburb of  Washington DC a rat infested piece of shit - until everyone in our country starts caring about our own president not being an absolute steaming pile of garbage then we are fucked - I don't mean the people in the discussion here, I mean the people who far outnumber us out in rural USA and who have been "closeted" about their feelings living in the urban areas. 

Everyone in the house and congress is damn near illiterate and it's pathetic how our nation is represented in washington these days, but maybe it's not, maybe they people they are representing are just as bad and we refuse to admit it to ourselves?

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American Swindle

American Swindle 102

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13 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The “republic” part of our democracy was supposed to be a safeguard against factions and the danger of pure partisan politics, at least according to Madison.

Those safeguards get obliterated when our elected officials and judges put party over country/constitution and the voters fail to swiftly hold them accountable. 

The constitution only makes the consolidation/centralization of power challenging when there is a good faith allegiance to the constitution by the elected officials sworn to uphold it. 

Don't you mean the "Republic" part of our Constitutional Republic?  

Some crazy kook ran in 08' and 12' as a Republican that actually walked the walk when it came to his actions in upholding the Constitution.  Hell, he even opted out of the Congressional Pension program that he claimed "was an undue burden on the American Taxpayer." "If we just followed the Constitution....." he'd say multiple times on the debate stage.  

He had scruples, but you see, the issue is with those that genuinely feel they know how best to rule over you.  They gravitate toward the state for power and control.  The State is simply the locus of sociopathic and narcissistic behavior, so to find guys like Amash or the man I speak of in government is rare.  

 

That, and we all just love us some political drama.  We eat that shit for breakfast lunch and dinner.  To hell with the State having a monopoly on violence, ruining our money and expanding beyond our control, just give me the drama!  

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DixonHur

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5 minutes ago, immamac said:

guys our president just called one of the major metro areas and essentially a suburb of  Washington DC a rat infested piece of shit - until everyone in our country starts caring about our own president not being an absolute steaming pile of garbage then we are fucked - I don't mean the people in the discussion here, I mean the people who far outnumber us out in rural USA and who have been "closeted" about their feelings living in the urban areas. 

Everyone in the house and congress is damn near illiterate and it's pathetic how our nation is represented in washington these days, but maybe it's not, maybe they people they are representing are just as bad and we refuse to admit it to ourselves?

Reminds me of an episode I witnessed on a recent trip to the Bahamas.  There were two older, rural Trumpian ladies in front of me trying to fill out their immigration form when one of them flags down a flight attendant.  The following conversation ensued:

Lady #1:  Why do they need to know what county I live in?

(narrator: it says country)

Flight attendant:  Do you know the county you live in?

Lady #1: No

Flight attendant:  Just put USA

Lady #1:  I thought I put that under nationality.

Lady #2: Your nationality is white

Welcome to America 2019

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immamac

immamac 42868

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exactly I think before everyone was "stupid shamed" into the closet and the retards didn't come out unless directly spoken to. Now with social media everyone has a voice and the retards have all come out of the woodwork to fucking drag society down into the bowels of racism, xenophobia, and whatever fucked up backwards shit retarded people still think about all day instead of being productive nice people.

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Zavala

Zavala 1384

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1 hour ago, immamac said:

guys our president just called one of the major metro areas and essentially a suburb of  Washington DC a rat infested piece of shit - until everyone in our country starts caring about our own president not being an absolute steaming pile of garbage then we are fucked - I don't mean the people in the discussion here, I mean the people who far outnumber us out in rural USA and who have been "closeted" about their feelings living in the urban areas. 

Everyone in the house and congress is damn near illiterate and it's pathetic how our nation is represented in washington these days, but maybe it's not, maybe they people they are representing are just as bad and we refuse to admit it to ourselves?

Haven't the last few mayors of Baltimore been forced to retire because of corruption? 

https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/editorial/bs-ed-0410-trash-clean-up-20190409-story.html

https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-pugh-smell-rats-20180912-story.html

 

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CO Horn

CO Horn 161

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37 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

So I take it you don't have an actual coherent answer.  Ok Hook'em

I'm with Zavala on this one.  Rep Cummings needs to be held accountable at the next city council meeting that he's in charge of!!!

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Lazarus Bocanegra

Lazarus Bocanegra 305

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2 hours ago, immamac said:

exactly I think before everyone was "stupid shamed" into the closet and the retards didn't come out unless directly spoken to. Now with social media everyone has a voice and the retards have all come out of the woodwork to fucking drag society down into the bowels of racism, xenophobia, and whatever fucked up backwards shit retarded people still think about all day instead of being productive nice people.

you should find a better pejorative

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31498

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I don't care how "accurate" or defensible the opinion might be, the POTUS does not denigrate an entire major American city (or a minor one) because he's such a baby cunt trying to get over on a political opponent.

I'm sick to death of having a stupid middle school bully and shit talker as president.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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2 hours ago, Zavala said:

Haven't the last few mayors of Baltimore been forced to retire because of corruption? 

https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/editorial/bs-ed-0410-trash-clean-up-20190409-story.html

https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-pugh-smell-rats-20180912-story.html

 

 

Look. We all already know your stance on absolutely everything. Why even bother posting it? 

Edited by JimmyJames
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American Swindle

American Swindle 102

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Don't you mean the "Republic" part of our Constitutional Republic?  
Some crazy kook ran in 08' and 12' as a Republican that actually walked the walk when it came to his actions in upholding the Constitution.  Hell, he even opted out of the Congressional Pension program that he claimed "was an undue burden on the American Taxpayer." "If we just followed the Constitution....." he'd say multiple times on the debate stage.  
He had scruples, but you see, the issue is with those that genuinely feel they know how best to rule over you.  They gravitate toward the state for power and control.  The State is simply the locus of sociopathic and narcissistic behavior, so to find guys like Amash or the man I speak of in government is rare.  
 
That, and we all just love us some political drama.  We eat that shit for breakfast lunch and dinner.  To hell with the State having a monopoly on violence, ruining our money and expanding beyond our control, just give me the drama!  



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workswithseed

workswithseed 2112

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7 hours ago, immamac said:

guys our president just called one of the major metro areas and essentially a suburb of  Washington DC a rat infested piece of shit - until everyone in our country starts caring about our own president not being an absolute steaming pile of garbage then we are fucked - I don't mean the people in the discussion here, I mean the people who far outnumber us out in rural USA and who have been "closeted" about their feelings living in the urban areas. 

Everyone in the house and congress is damn near illiterate and it's pathetic how our nation is represented in washington these days, but maybe it's not, maybe they people they are representing are just as bad and we refuse to admit it to ourselves?

Isn't it though?

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immortal13

immortal13 4059

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8 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Not looking for a Bogeyman because blame is irrelevant at this point.  Ultimately we have no one to blame but ourselves for failing to defend our society from bad actors, foreign or domestic. 

This is more about potential solutions to an easily identifiable problem. 

So irrelevant that you decided to blame Republicans. Shocking

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