The partisan division in the United States - organic or by design?

[hpslugga 4062]

7 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The “republic” part of our democracy was supposed to be a safeguard against factions and the danger of pure partisan politics, at least according to Madison.

Madison preferred the "republic part of the democracy" so as to act as a safeguard against the general population.

"Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority."

 

[staboner 4984]

9 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m surprised the “we need a third party” crowd hasn’t weighed in yet. 

slugga's response was spot on.

and it isn't about a third party - its simply about reform. any reform would do at this point. Clamoring for a third part (or preemptively calling out the idea) is hot air

as is posting in the Trump thread all your outrage over and over again. it changes nothing. 

parliamentary system, more parties, divide up the electoral votes in weight, whatever. remove money. really anything is good

but to do something you have to STOP PARTICIPATING IN THE CURRENT DIALOGUE. which you - and almost everyone else - cannot grasp. seriously you have to try to stop. good luck, we're all counting on you. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

14 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

So irrelevant that you decided to blame Republicans. Shocking

I personally blame the party of white nationalism and the I’ve got mine and want your’s too. Who else should I blame? 

[staboner 4984]

7 hours ago, immamac said:

guys our president just called one of the major metro areas and essentially a suburb of  Washington DC a rat infested piece of shit - until everyone in our country starts caring about our own president not being an absolute steaming pile of garbage then we are fucked - I don't mean the people in the discussion here, I mean the people who far outnumber us out in rural USA and who have been "closeted" about their feelings living in the urban areas. 

Everyone in the house and congress is damn near illiterate and it's pathetic how our nation is represented in washington these days, but maybe it's not, maybe they people they are representing are just as bad and we refuse to admit it to ourselves?

and here is a great example of what i am talking about.

more outrage. a person wishing to get others to be outraged with them. and they don't. and then something else stupid happens tomorrow. rinse and repeat. 

i mean really? greg davis wants his prevent offense back. don't insane bud. 

much love to you friends. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

19 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

So irrelevant that you decided to blame Republicans. Shocking

The Republicans are openly using division as a political strategy.  They used to try to hide it.   However, it’s not the Republicans fault this strategy works.  It’s our fault we allow it to work.  

Like in tennis, the lines are on the court for them to hit.  We the people, however, are failing to do our job as chair umpires and they are exploiting it.

[JimmyJames 12271]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The Republicans are openly using division as a political strategy.  They used to try to hide it.   However, it’s not the Republicans fault this strategy works.  It’s our fault we allow it to work.  

Like in tennis, the lines are on the court for them to hit.  We the people, however, are failing to do our job as chair umpires and they are exploiting it.

Did you say tennis and exploiting? 

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by JimmyJames

[Jim Tom Pinch 120]

11 hours ago, David Dennison said:

It's fun when people who support the Republican Party pretend it's not the the Republican Party that's the problem.

The lack of critical thinking here is breathtaking.

[Jim Tom Pinch 120]

9 hours ago, immamac said:

guys our president just called one of the major metro areas and essentially a suburb of  Washington DC a rat infested piece of shit - until everyone in our country starts caring about our own president not being an absolute steaming pile of garbage then we are fucked - I don't mean the people in the discussion here, I mean the people who far outnumber us out in rural USA and who have been "closeted" about their feelings living in the urban areas. 

Everyone in the house and congress is damn near illiterate and it's pathetic how our nation is represented in washington these days, but maybe it's not, maybe they people they are representing are just as bad and we refuse to admit it to ourselves?

People who live there agree with him. Are they wrong?

[David Dennison 18924]

Just now, Jim Tom Pinch said:

People who live there agree with him. Are they wrong?

People who live there disagree with him. Are they wrong?

[Jim Tom Pinch 120]

Well, it is one of the most rat-infested cities in America so I guess they are.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

2 hours ago, staboner said:

divide up the electoral votes in weight.

Wait what?  You want American Samoa to elect the president?

[henrygandorf 29192]

just a few thoughts on some of the original questions...

if your buddy doesn't know whether to run as a d or an r (depending of course on what level we're talking about, and what his ideas are like), he should pick the one that gives him the best chance to win.  that's the way the system works now, and folks tend to listen less to people who lose elections.  if he has good ideas, maybe he can help with change from the inside, assuming we're talking city, county, or maybe state level.

as for unifying the country, that's a tricky one.  i would generally say "no, the chance of someone coming along and unifying the country is remote" and i'll give two reasons why - (1) wars and (2) cable news.  when we were in wars - and i'm talking about actually declaring war (everything pre-vietnam, basically) there was the pride of being involved in something bigger and fighting a foreign evil.  when we emerged victorious, we were happy and proud, and the president got a lot of credit for that.  then, whatever message he had, presumably over the radio or through newspapers, would make americans proud (i can only assume), thus ~unifying the country.

ever since cable news, the message is way too divided.  it's rare - even if there's something unifying the president could possibly say or do - that the majority of the country would even be watching it.  when was w the most popular?  when he threw the first pitch after 9/11?  when was obama?  when we got bin laden?  (i'm guessing, i have no idea).  reagan with the wall, and so forth.  now, if something major happens, it's not even on most of the broadcast networks.  walter cronkite is not walking through that door.

to me, the big issue (and i'm obviously biased) is that if you're in power, there's really no upside to trying to unify the country - it only makes you weak and vulnerable moving forward.  yes, i'm talking about republicans currently, because they're in power.  when the dems win next year, i can pretend and say they'll be the "bigger person", but who's to say.  if you have the votes, then fuck everybody else, right?  that's the current problem, and yes, the electoral college is part of that problem.  and to expand on that - the electoral college problem is an issue in the white house and in the senate, where smaller rural states have the same amount of senators as the most populated states with some of the biggest cities.  if those got restructured, the republican party would be finished.

i'll finish by saying this, and referencing immamac's post upthread - unity right now is next to impossible.  our president has gone all over twitter saying truly horrible things.  things that ordinary citizens shouldn't say, let alone the leader of the free world.  things that even dedicated and loyal members of his own party have denounced.  if we can't unify as a nation and declare that this type of thing is unacceptable, than how in the world could we ever unify if and when any president does something truly great? 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585]

7 hours ago, Jim Tom Pinch said:

The lack of critical thinking here is breathtaking.

- Guy who has "no idea" whether 3 to 5 million illegal votes occurred during the 2016 presidential election.