Diesel Trucks- Blue Def and other potential issues

[horn4life 3759]

Thinking about maybe getting a Diesel truck to tow with, and wondered what the pro's and cons are?  I see folks buying Blue Def, something to do with the emissions I think.  But I see the boxes all the time so I assume there is reason, I just don't know what it is.

My BIL didn't like his because the diesel was messy and he wasn't really hauling anything.  I am thinking of buying some sort of trailer, likely a toy box or other 5th wheel, and would prefer to have more rather than less towing capacity.  I would use the trailer mostly when starting remodels, and probably to take to the beach, or river.  If I go the toy box route I would probably end up getting a golf cart for going to the beach.  So I am guessing I could get north of an F-150's towing capacity pretty quick.  I was thinking about a 4x4 F-150 as my next purchase, but potentially trading that in for perhaps an F-350 if I decide to get a large trailer.  Seems like the price difference isn't all that much, and I don't need extreme creature comforts beyond power windows, locks and a great A/C.  The towing capacity difference was substantial. I will also likely look at the GMC as I can get those at employee cost through my MIL. 

So what should I know about Diesel trucks as far as taking care of them?  If I buy and F350 or 3500HD I want them to last a long time as I won't put huge miles on, but the miles would be a lot more towing. Any opinions on why you like Ford over GMC for example would be welcome. Just wondering to potential pitfalls of owning a diesel having never owned one?

thanks in advance  

[Parliament 14243]

Back in 2004 or so, the EPA changed emissions regs so that diesels hafta run as clean as gassers.  Manufacturers hadta make major engine design changes (Def, DPF, SCR, EGR, etc), and do it in short order.  This led to a "lost decade" where diesels were hangar queens.

Since 2015 or so they've had it figured out and diesels are reliable again.  Just more expensive.  If you aren't pulling a trailer a LOT, just get a gasser.  GM and Chevy put 400 hp gassers in their pickups now.  You can pass everything but a gas station with one of those.

[horn4life 3759]

I knew it was emissions, so the blue def is mainly for the older vehicles then. The 5th wheel I looked at was like 14,000 lbs, so I was thinking diesel. Another 1200(?) for the golf cart, and add liquids and I would be pushing 17K lbs pretty quick.  

[Errestaurants 2570]

U don't need a 3500. Just get F250 or 2500 gasser. The new emissions stuff is shit. Also the oil and fuel filter changes are expensive plus adding def. We have '14 ram 3500 and a '15 ford250 . We haul cattle, hay, tractor, sxs, etc.

[Errestaurants 2570]

Just now, horn4life said:

I knew it was emissions, so the blue def is mainly for the older vehicles then. The 5th wheel I looked at was like 14,000 lbs, so I was thinking diesel. Another 1200(?) for the golf cart, and add liquids and I would be pushing 17K lbs pretty quick.  

Def is for newer models. Tier 4 engines is when it started. Its 99% water and 1% Urea I believe. U can delete the emissions but you'll be out warranty. Once out of warranty lots people do the delete.

[Asithappens 974]

3 minutes ago, Errestaurants said:

U don't need a 3500. Just get F250 or 2500 gasser. The new emissions stuff is shit. Also the oil and fuel filter changes are expensive plus adding def. We have '14 ram 3500 and a '15 ford250 . We haul cattle, hay, tractor, sxs, etc.

This. Unless you're really going  into it, an F250 will do the job. 

But the real question is: are you going to get a work bed? You know, the flat, metal bed that can hold a Lincoln welding kit?

Come one, be a real man. Get a dualie, too. 

[Asithappens 974]

Not that anyone cares (except me) but I've (for a long time) found the F-250 to be pretty much the supreme truck. (non-commercial, of course).

But for god's sake, don't get pussy looking tires. Not saying you need a lift kit, but get some manly tires. 

And don't get white. Nothing screams toady oilfield worker like a white F-250 with wimpy tires.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Asithappens

[TwiceHorn 31438]

I saw a Ford pickup, and not a dually, pulling a small car carrier with SIX cars on it.  It was somewhat flabbergasting.  Didn't seem to be struggling much, either.

[deadshank 24652]

Modern diesel trucks need to do heavy towing.  Only using them for around town P&D style driving is actually not good for them.   More frequent  heavy loads is good for them.  

Modern diesel truck emissions system suck.  Meeting government emission requirements and the use of ultra low sulfur diesel has been a bane for what diesels are good at doing.

Oil changes are expensive

If you’re really going to tow, then invest in a remote controlled load leveling kit and pull heavy loads.  

 

[horn4life 3759]

1 hour ago, Asithappens said:

This. Unless you're really going  into it, an F250 will do the job. 

But the real question is: are you going to get a work bed? You know, the flat, metal bed that can hold a Lincoln welding kit?

Come one, be a real man. Get a dualie, too. 

I know that even contemplating a 350 puts me into that category, but the guy at Crestview was saying Diesel was the way to go if I was going to get a 5th wheel. I was originally thinking just get an f-150 for now with the 3.5 Turbo gas, because of the low end torque.  The only reason I even mentioned the f-350 was it was only about 5 grand more than the F-250 and designed to carry a bit more load than the 250.  I doubt I will actually end up buying a 5th wheel, but I could definitely see a toy hauler with the Port A golf cart.

Now I will say that I like the white trucks simply because they don't get quite as hot in the Texas heat as the darker colors.  If I get cool wheels am I allowed then to get white? 😎

 

[Nueces River Rat 5537]

Like others noted, for what you are towing an F-250 gas engine will do.

BUT if you want to join the douche bag crowd who think they are badasses who blow smoke with a jacked up F350 power stroke,  then have at it.   

On that note, I bet 95% of these guys driving diesel pickups with the higher towing  capacity  have absolutely no need for that many horses.   Some of these dudes who live in my own neighborhood don't tow jack shit, but have the $70K King Ranch 350 sitting in the driveway.  

[Errestaurants 2570]

Also if your talking about getting an F350 Dually. You'll be surprised on how much of bitch it is to park in town. Also having to buy 2 additional tires. Deadshank is right the new diesels are meant to be driven hard not sitting around. The days of letting a diesel idle forever are also long gone. 

[RPM 26317]

I own an F350 dually. They are hard to park, maneuver in tight spaces and LOVE diesel. An F250 will do 99% of the job and without the headaches. Diesel v gas, I'd still go with diesel if you are going to pull a 5th wheel. They aren't heavy, but they catch wind like a yankee clipper. DEF isn't a big issue. Just about every place that sells diesel, sells DEF.

[Nueces River Rat 5537]

I own an F350 dually. They are hard to park, maneuver in tight spaces and LOVE diesel. An F250 will do 99% of the job and without the headaches. Diesel v gas, I'd still go with diesel if you are going to pull a 5th wheel. They aren't heavy, but they catch wind like a yankee clipper. DEF isn't a big issue. Just about every place that sells diesel, sells DEF.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

For the love of god...stay away from DEF.

 

We have 3 school buses and 1 charter that requires DEF. It can throw a code out of the blue and completely ruin your day. You'll have to safe mode limp it to a dealer with a computer to diagnose the stupid problem. At some point the sensors will likely think the tank is empty when its 80% full and you'll be stuck on the side of the road.

 

 

 

It sucks. All of our older buses are more reliable. If/when they create an engine that doesnt require def...your truck will become unsellable because nobody will want to deal with that headache.

 

Getting any foreign substance into a def tank will cause it to basically shut down. You'll either need to have a dealer clean it thoroughly or buy yourself a new tank. Such a pain

 

 

[deadshank 24652]

10 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

 Buc-ee's in Katy and Waller sell it at the pump. So much better. 

[Jkwellborn 6691]

I saw a Ford pickup, and not a dually, pulling a small car carrier with SIX cars on it.  It was somewhat flabbergasting.  Didn't seem to be struggling much, either.

You know they make single wheel one tons right?

Op, decide how much you are really going to pull and how often. Most likely, a gas engine will be fine. A diesel with get better fuel mileage and normally be a better pulling truck, but maintenance and repair costs suck.

If you go diesel, get a used one that is out of warranty and delete it.

[Jkwellborn 6691]

Don’t forget, stopping is more important than towing.

[deadshank 24652]

11 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

You know they make single wheel one tons right?

Op, decide how much you are really going to pull and how often. Most likely, a gas engine will be fine. A diesel with get better fuel mileage and normally be a better pulling truck, but maintenance and repair costs suck.

If you go diesel, get a used one that is out of warranty and delete it.

I drive one and not planning to drive in California will do the delete after warranty.  

[Nueces River Rat 5537]

 Buc-ee's in Katy and Waller sell it at the pump. So much better. 

I’ve seen that. I’m surprised it’s not more common at other super sized stations like your Pilots, Loves , etc on the major highways. Or HEB gas stations since they know their Texas clientele.

[deadshank 24652]

33 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

 

I’ve seen that. I’m surprised it’s not more common at other super sized stations like your Pilots, Loves , etc on the major highways. Or HEB gas stations since they know their Texas clientele.

 

It’s less expensive at the pump.  All the others make more selling boxes. 

[horn4life 3759]

Interestingly enough I got to see the suspension of a 350 in action just today.  I thought the thing was pulling a 5th wheel but it was a large bumper pull with a couple slideouts.  Thing was sitting level with the heavier suspension.  Probably overkill for me, and F-250 would do 90 percent of what I am ever likely to do.  Definitely would never every but a loaded out truck to pull. just seems sort of dumb to me.  But hey i'm not rich and I don't have a small enough weiner to need a big lift kitted rig. I was impressed with the lack of rear end sag, on the large bumper pull trailer. 

Thanks for the input, even the scarcasm!

 

 

[Jkwellborn 6691]

Probably had a quantity load leveling hitch and maybe air bags

[Soldierhorn 206]

I've had a  2007 Chevy 3/4 ton with Duramax diesel and Allison transmission for a long time,  It has 240,000 miles on it and I still love it.  I have no plans to sell or trade it in.  I took the 5th wheel plate out since I dont have any goose neck trailers but it can be put back in if necessary. My truck does not have the extra fuel tube for additives and I like that also. I dont need that crap gumming up my engine. The interior is getting worn out so I plan on upgrading that at some point but... it's a work truck.  

People can do and believe what they want but... what I tell my kids is that if you get two vehicles, one needs to be gas and the other diesel even if you dont get a truck. why?  The gas lines in the '70s were terrible but the diesel lines were relatively quick.  If an emergency happens, you want to give yourself options. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Soldierhorn

[RPM 26317]

On 8/3/2019 at 7:25 AM, Jkwellborn said:

Don’t forget, stopping is more important than towing.

THIS. One of the first things I did to my F350 was upgrade the brakes from stock to Power Stop Extreme drilled and slotted. Cost about $600 but the difference was amazing.

17 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

Probably had a quantity load leveling hitch and maybe air bags

Air bags are relatively cheap and make your truck ride like a Cadillac loaded or empty.

[deadshank 24652]

Yes, load leveling kits with the airbags, compressor and remote control are awesome for real trailering.   

I will look into aftermarket improved brakes.  Power Stop Extreme, you say @RPM ?  Will check that out.   I’ve got my eye on you now.  

Yes. I do. 

[RPM 26317]

2 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Power Stop Extreme, you say

https://www.powerstop.com/product/power-stop-z36-kit/

[deadshank 24652]

38 minutes ago, RPM said:

https://www.powerstop.com/product/power-stop-z36-kit/

Thanks.  Did you follow the break-in procedure to a tee?

[AngryBevo 20]

2 hours ago, RPM said:

THIS. One of the first things I did to my F350 was upgrade the brakes from stock to Power Stop Extreme drilled and slotted. Cost about $600 but the difference was amazing.

Air bags are relatively cheap and make your truck ride like a Cadillac loaded or empty.

 I put those on my old f350 and have been great. I got new f250 and was surprised how bad the stock breaking feels.  I thought it was just from me having too much fun with all the power but the breaking distance is just bad. 

[RPM 26317]

47 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Thanks.  Did you follow the break-in procedure to a tee?

I want to say yes, but I probably didn't. Have had 0 problems with them other than damn near faceplanting into the steering wheel when I have to slam on them.

[Soldierhorn 206]

3 hours ago, thestud said:

I have a 2010 2500 Silverado with 262k miles and it whoops ass. Had it deleted and reprogrammed at 100k when the warranty expired. My 2015 2500 Sierra has 98k and as soon as it hits 100k it’s going to the shop to be deleted as well.

hey both pull great and I’ve never had any issues with either, but my 2015 came with exhaust brake and air bags installed. Pulling a trailer with 14 1000# round bales on it that sucker stops on a dime. It also gets up and goes pretty damn quick too. Sits level and never once have I felt like my load was driving me instead of me driving it.

ou don’t need a dually for what you’re wanting to pull.

 

Oh, you helped me remember something.  years ago, I took the EVO tuner and display off and replaced it with a SCTFlash tuner.  I immediately saw a big improvement in horse power and efficiency. 

[RPM 26317]

Whatever you do, don't hook up a flash tuner until your warranty is expired (unless you don't want a warranty). The ECM keeps track of how many times it's been flashed.

As much as I dislike GM vehicles, I have to give the Duramax/Allison combo a huge thumbs up. My BIL has owned 2 and worked the snot out of both of them with no issues.

[Hpara759 1778]

I have a 2018 Chevy Colorado with 2.8 L deisel as my every day driver.....17k miles I am satisfied with the truck so far......getting 27 mpg city driving....get about 6- 7k out of a tank of DEF....have used DEF from a box and from pump.....there is a web site: (yara.us) that show stations that sell DEF at the pump.....

[Leeroy Jenkins 2402]

Don’t ever fuck up and put DEF in your fuel tank. If you do, don’t start it.

My buddy found out the hard way. $8k later he deleted his shit.

I have an 06 Duramax with 130K on it. I get offers from people who want to buy it all of the time.

[Lat22 4010]

You’ll wish you had bought a diesel when you go to sell it. 

[deadshank 24652]

9 hours ago, RPM said:

Whatever you do, don't hook up a flash tuner until your warranty is expired (unless you don't want a warranty). The ECM keeps track of how many times it's been flashed.

As much as I dislike GM vehicles, I have to give the Duramax/Allison combo a huge thumbs up. My BIL has owned 2 and worked the snot out of both of them with no issues.

Have the interiors improved?  Always seemed small and cheap.  From the blue light stereo to the speedo / gauge cluster.   Always seemed second rate and ugly to the eyes.

[RPM 26317]

My BIL's Silverado is loaded. Not sure which extra packages it has, but pretty much all of them. He went from a guy that hated electric windows to "give me everything you got". GM really stepped up their game. I had an early 90's Chevy Silverado and the seats sucked hard. After 20 minutes or so the metal frame would start digging into your back and there was minimal legroom. His interior is nicer than my CTS... and it will tow 35K with no problem.

Edited August 6, 2019 by RPM

[Soldierhorn 206]

2 hours ago, deadshank said:

Have the interiors improved?  Always seemed small and cheap.  From the blue light stereo to the speedo / gauge cluster.   Always seemed second rate and ugly to the eyes.

I think it depends on what you like and what you want.  I like the classic silverado look and function so I got the "classic" silverado.  Boring? probably. Functional? very.   It's a work truck.  But, after a decade of regular use, it's time to put in some custom seats, console, headliner, carpet or rubber floor, etc.  The bed could use a rino coating or something of that sort as well.  And, I really like the GMC tailgate and might try to see what I can do to get one on my silverado

[Chewbacca 7767]

On 8/2/2019 at 11:59 AM, Asithappens said:

This. Unless you're really going  into it, an F250 will do the job. 

But the real question is: are you going to get a work bed? You know, the flat, metal bed that can hold a Lincoln welding kit?

Come one, be a real man. Get a dualie, too. 

My business partner recently got an F350 Platinum dually.  It's absurdly large, but he loves it.  Was roughly the same price as the 250, FWIW.

[horn4life 3759]

1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:

My business partner recently got an F350 Platinum dually.  It's absurdly large, but he loves it.  Was roughly the same price as the 250, FWIW.

That's what I was saying when I first posted.  Didn't seem like much price difference... of course I wasn't rolling Platinum, but it was like a $5K difference.  It was worth the ridicule to have a thread like this started on a subject I am curious about. The heavier duty suspension seemed like it might be worth the small difference.  IF of course I got cool wheels acceptable to the critics!

[Mother mopar 3318]

Changed the u joints in my 07 Dodge 2500 4x4, 152K miles. They were toast! It took me a lot longer to get it done as the caps were just fused in there.

Didn't know dodge injects hot plastic in u joint lips to prevent it from rotating and back out...in conjunction with the C clip. Had to heat it up w/ a torch and melt it out, see the last pic.

[Gil Bang 25920]

I would expect a bad vibration with those.  Was that the symptom?

[fattyflattie 4639]

Harvey demoed mine at about that same mileage.  Got the dreaded squeak.  They were considerably worse looking though, amazing they didn’t go (they didn’t squeak but for a week). To my surprise, no glue. All my previous GMs has the glue you had to heat out.  Not too bad for 9 years considering they are sealed at factory. 

[Mother mopar 3318]

I would expect a bad vibration with those.  Was that the symptom?

I did have vibration (50-70mph) but I did some performance transmission work and I thought I had the picked a torque converter with to low of a stall speed thus causing the vibration. Then I noticed it started to really clunk when putting it in reverse. That's what made me pull the driveshaft. Ps. It's a heavy SOB.

[Mother mopar 3318]

Harvey demoed mine at about that same mileage.  Got the dreaded squeak.  They were considerably worse looking though, amazing they didn’t go (they didn’t squeak but for a week). To my surprise, no glue. All my previous GMs has the glue you had to heat out.  Not too bad for 9 years considering they are sealed at factory. 

Crazy, I've never seen the plastic injection. I've done my share of u joints. What's weird is the front driveshaft (4x4) isn't like that at just normal clips.

[fattyflattie 4639]

1 minute ago, Mother mopar said:

26 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Harvey demoed mine at about that same mileage.  Got the dreaded squeak.  They were considerably worse looking though, amazing they didn’t go (they didn’t squeak but for a week). To my surprise, no glue. All my previous GMs has the glue you had to heat out.  Not too bad for 9 years considering they are sealed at factory. 

Crazy, I've never seen the plastic injection. I've done my share of u joints. What's weird is the front driveshaft (4x4) isn't like that at just normal clips.

GM been doing it since at least 2000. When your heating it and that stuff starts to squirt out, make damn sure you don’t get any on you. I still remember that feeling  from you 15+ years ago now. 

[Gil Bang 25920]

19 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

GM been doing it since at least 2000. When your heating it and that stuff starts to squirt out, make damn sure you don’t get any on you. I still remember that feeling  from you 15+ years ago now. 

That's good advice in general. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

8 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

That's good advice in general. 

It sort of snakes out and will pop.  Best advice I guess would be stand 3’ back if you can. Do it with a torch instead of a little propane bottle if possible. 

[Mother mopar 3318]

It sort of snakes out and will pop.  Best advice I guess would be stand 3’ back if you can. Do it with a torch instead of a little propane bottle if possible. 

This is exactly what happened.

[Mother mopar 3318]

Posted in the truck thread but not much traction/info over there from the gas crowd on diesels.

Just picked up a set of new dynamite diesel 30-over injectors for my 3rd gen Dodge. #3 injector finally took a shit at 164k miles. Already running a Fass 100, and plan on adding a fleece turbo and t4 exhaust manifold this summer.

While the DD injectors were not cheap compared to others, those and Exergy were the only ones I really considered. Figured I will change the rocker box gasket and adjust the valves since I'm there.