Active Shooter - El Paso

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Ugh, it won't let me edit so to clarify: he admitted to me to being frightened. The age where boys are supposed to "have all the answers" and not appear weak seems so rough (to observe from a mom's perspective). As a parent, you just want them to learn and grow and find a measure of satisfaction in what they can accomplish.

[usmc0331horn 962]

Anyone saying not to politicize this well the little racist twat wrote a political manifesto outlining pretty well wtf is going on with these white terrorists and a lot of the rhetoric is out of a certain party's own mouths. Video games.

[Guest Lobo]

Video Games are also behind global warming (those things use a lot of energy IIRC), radical islam (I think we all know the popular Sega game Derka-Derka-Jihad-Mohammed), Opioid addictions (you gotta stay high to stay lethal in some of those games)....Let's see?  What else?  What else is video games and lack of school prayer's fault?  Gotta me a laundry list of shit we can make a platform out of, no?  

[VABuckeye 2472]

32 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

One of my teens has been following these events and it has been sad. He is really into computers (more from an assembly and hardware p.o.v.) but like most boys, he knows his way around the web. We were talking about the websites that track the death tolls like it is some sort of "heroes' hall" and when people sink into the darkest corners of these sites they dehumanize everything, including themselves. He wouldn't admit it to anyone but me, but it is frightening and overwhelming. Poor poor son. What kind of a world has my generation left for him?

Why would any rational individual have any inclination to visit a site like that?  It's not the world we're leaving it's the world they're making.

[elguapo 4586]

3 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

Why would any rational individual have any inclination to visit a site like that?  It's not the world we're leaving it's the world they're making.

I can tell you really remember what it was like to be a teenager.

[VABuckeye 2472]

I certainly wasn't into or wouldn't have looked up anything like that as a teen.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Just now, VABuckeye said:

I certainly wasn't into or wouldn't have looked up anything like that as a teen.

He isn't "into it," but teenagers don't exist in a vacuum of home life and the life their parents' imagine they are leading. He is a high schooler and is active with programming classes and Skills USA and UIL and the groups of teens that are interested in doing this kind of work as adults talk to each other and stay informed. Cybersecurity was an area that one of their teachers had been active in promoting as a career option worth exploring.

So, in other words, kids talk. Some kids talk about the young lady who ahem 'does things' but other boys that aren't at that level yet talk about their interest in other areas of life. Like the guys over in the hobbies thread that talk about Legos and model airplanes.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Gosh, that sounded kind of rude to guys who like model airplanes and Legos.  Sorry, that was not the intent and there is nothing wrong with those hobbies.

[immamac 42906]

14 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

I certainly wasn't into or wouldn't have looked up anything like that as a teen.

No you are just into crazy message boards for teams that have nothing to do with your life. 

It's the same shit dude it's the internet - teens and young adults grew up with the internet, have you been on Twitter or FB lately? It's a fucking cesspool of trolls and the deep dark corners of the internet are now just out on public display with no shame at all. Morbid curiousity used to be the reason to stumble on that stuff, now it's just so in your face unless you actively avoid it poof there it is in your feed. 

[immortal13 4059]

14 hours ago, mdleast said:

Here you go. So some of you can masturbate to it.

What's your point?

[Fondren & Main 6731]

2 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

What's your point?

He’s being an emotional woman.  I think that was the point.  That’s what I took away anyway.

[RDCanecutter 26462]

So Mexico wants to extradite this dude. Don't see why not.

[BabaYaga 15304]

3 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

He’s being an emotional woman.  I think that was the point.  That’s what I took away anyway.

At least he didn't embarrass himself and call it a "clip".  Seriously, those are awful.  Not because of their capacity, but because they jam and have failures constantly.  Choose a better boogieman.  Nobody uses those outside of YouTube videos and movies.  Know a guy that does aerial hog hunts with AR's.  Perfect application, right?  Hates the damn things.  

Now everyone can get back to the nuanced conversation that smaller cups make you less fat, er., I mean reduced mag capacity will impact casualty numbers

[Smax 3800]

26 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

So Mexico wants to extradite this dude. Don't see why not.

they don't have the death penalty, Texas does, send him to Huntsville

[VABuckeye 2472]

38 minutes ago, immamac said:

No you are just into crazy message boards for teams that have nothing to do with your life. 

It's the same shit dude it's the internet - teens and young adults grew up with the internet, have you been on Twitter or FB lately? It's a fucking cesspool of trolls and the deep dark corners of the internet are now just out on public display with no shame at all. Morbid curiousity used to be the reason to stumble on that stuff, now it's just so in your face unless you actively avoid it poof there it is in your feed. 

I don't do Twitter or FaceBook.  Crazy message boards for teams that have nothing to do with my life is about as far as I go.  8-)

I hear you though.  It's out there and it's easily accessible.

[conVINCEd 21469]

3 minutes ago, Smax said:

they don't have the death penalty, Texas does, send him to Huntsville

He wouldn’t last very long in a Mexican prison.

[RDCanecutter 26462]

2 minutes ago, Smax said:

they don't have the death penalty, Texas does, send him to Huntsville

He'll wish Mexico had the death penalty. Let him do a good 20 years there, then whatever's left of him can crawl into Polunsky Barracks.

[GringoSalado 1651]

So evidently some Juarenses are among the victims then, see above post and also some victims names have been released by Mexican officials.  Siap. 

[suddenly shaggy 929]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

At least he didn't embarrass himself and call it a "clip".  Seriously, those are awful.  Not because of their capacity, but because they jam and have failures constantly.  Choose a better boogieman.  Nobody uses those outside of YouTube videos and movies.  Know a guy that does aerial hog hunts with AR's.  Perfect application, right?  Hates the damn things.  

Now everyone can get back to the nuanced conversation that smaller cups make you less fat, er., I mean reduced mag capacity will impact casualty numbers

Maybe you should be less concerned about whether people call it a clip or a magazine and more concerned with actually spending some time learning the details about these mass murders before you make ignorant comments in the future. 

If you had, you would have known that the Ohio shooter used a 100-round magazine, nearly identical to the one posted.

That's how this murderer was able to kill 9 people and wound 27 others without reloading before the police killed him in 32 seconds. 

Even a 30-round magazine would have resulted in fewer victims. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by suddenly shaggy

[GringoSalado 1651]

This ran in El Diario, found the english version

 

Spoiler

 

Life in Walmart El Paso store before the mass shooting shines a light on why it was targeted

Many targeted by hate-filled gunman just yards from US border were Hispanic and Latino people going about their daily shopping alongside Americans

Simon Romero,

Manny Fernandez,

Michael Corkery

8 hours ago 

Click to follow
The Independent US

Two nations physically and culturally come together in El Paso. The bustling Walmart on the city’s east side, just minutes from the border with Mexico, exemplified those ties.

The store was a border version of Middle America: A large number of Mexican-American families from El Paso crowded into the megastore daily for inexpensive groceries and, late in the summer, back-to-school supplies.

Almost as often, families from Mexico drove across the international bridge to buy bargain TVs, cartons of nappies and discount clothing.

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It was one of the company’s top 10 in America: Where most stores of its kind average 14,000 customers a week, the El Paso Walmart, a retail analyst said, saw 65,000.

Its racks are stocked with Mexican football jerseys, cans of chillies and salsa and Mexican flags, folded beneath the American and Texas flags on display. The pharmacy’s staff members are fully bilingual.

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El Paso mass shooting: 20 killed at Walmart store

Show all 39

“It really does feel like a United Nations store,” said Burt Flickinger, a retail consultant who has visited and studied the store.

This is the border as it is lived everyday, far from the heated national debate over immigration. Children come and go across the international boundary for school, others come for jobs and shopping.

Watch more

Two Walmart shootings in one week draw attention to store’s gun sales

It was in this Walmart, on a sunny Saturday morning, where a white gunman angered by what he called the “Hispanic invasion of Texas” chose to carry out a horrific act of violence.

Disturbed gunmen have previously targeted American Jews, African Americans, Muslim-Americans, gay Americans and American journalists.

Authorities say the El Paso gunman, identified as Patrick Crusius, 21, targeted Mexican and Mexican-American shoppers and workers in the attack on Saturday, killing 20 people and wounding 27 others.

While there have been numerous Hispanic victims in several of the mass shootings that have shocked the nation in recent years — including the Pulse nightclub attack in Orlando, Florida, in 2016 — the massacre in El Paso was the deadliest anti-Latino attack in modern US history.

The manifesto that a federal law enforcement official said Mr Crusius wrote and posted online minutes before the shooting made his anti-immigrant beliefs clear.

He wrote that immigration “can only be detrimental to the future of America,” and bemoaned a future in which Hispanics would take control of the local and state governments, “changing policy to better suit their needs”.

The apparent anti-Latino motive behind the attack stunned residents and officials, who saw the nation’s fraught debate over culture and immigration erupting with sudden violence in a city that had been both a focal point of immigration and a place — like many border towns — where the notion of immigration and national identity had rarely felt divisive.

“What was most shocking to me is not that it was a mass shooting but the motive, the fact that he specifically targeted Mexican-Americans and Hispanics,” said Gilda Baeza Ortega, 67, a librarian at Western New Mexico University who was in El Paso visiting her parents. “He came here for us.”

Across the country, many Latinos were describing the targeted killings as a 11 September moment, and the FBI’s announcement Sunday that it had opened a domestic terrorism investigation only reinforced that belief, especially in a city that is 80 per cent Hispanic.

The El Paso community was defiant in the wake of an attack that socked a nation to its core (Getty Images)

“This Anglo man came here to kill Hispanics,” El Paso’s sheriff, Richard Wiles, said. “I’m outraged, and you should be, too. This entire nation should be outraged. In this day and age, with all the serious issues we face, we are still confronted with people who will kill another for the sole reason of the colour of their skin.”

Before the attack upended the sense of normalcy in El Paso, the Walmart and the shopping area surrounding it lured many people from across the border, as well as many El Paso residents looking for something to do on a weekend afternoon.

People from both countries would go to new releases at a cinema not far from the Walmart, shop for discount clothing at a nearby Ross Dress for Less or stop in for happy hour at Hooters.

Texas has long been a state where Hispanics have shaped and in many ways defined what it means to be Texan. But in recent years, the old white Texas and the new Hispanic Texas have repeatedly clashed.

Some of this tension involves who gets to tell history. Activists and scholars have begun focusing on the legacy of racist campaigns of terror against Latinos in this part of the West, including the killings a century ago of Mexicans by lynch mobs made up of Anglos.

Read more

Mexico reacts with fury over El Paso shooting and pledges legal action

Going back further in the debate over any “invasion of Texas,” historians note that it was actually carried out by Anglo slaveholders who migrated to the region in the 19th century when it was still part of Mexico, then seceded in 1836 and enshrined white supremacy in the first Texas Constitution.

The more recent clashes have led not only to years-long court battles but also to physical confrontations between white and Hispanic politicians on the floor of the Texas House of Representatives.

White Republican officials in Texas have publicly expressed alarm about what they describe as an “invasion” of migrants spreading disease at the Texas border.

El Paso residents have now seen the most hateful parts of the debatebringing violence to their doors.

Adriana Ruiz was among those who left flowers, having picked up a bouquet from another Walmart in El Paso after church.

“I just...” she said, her voice trailing off. “Right now, my heart is broken.”

Families gather at the scene of the El Paso shooting as a chorus of calls for a US gun control clampdown grow louder (REUTERS)

Ms Ruiz, 50, said she was pained by the animosity that had surrounded the national debate about El Paso as it became a ground zero of sorts in recent months as migrants came rushing in from Central America.

A hateful act seemed like such a stark contrast to the vibe and texture of the city where she was born and raised. She remembered going to Ciudad Juarez in Mexico on Saturdays with her mother, grandmother and aunts to go shopping.

“No matter who it is,” she said. “We make them feel at home.”

The shooting, she said, showed that a toxic environment outside El Paso was finding its way into the city. She heard it in the remarks about life in the city that did not reflect what she knew, especially those from Donald Trump, the US president.

“That is something that came from the top,” Ms Ruiz said, referring to the frequent portrayal of the border as a place of crisis that was threatened with invaders from outside.

Read more

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“It’s idiotic,” she said, conceding that her anger had left her stumped for the right words. “I want to say some harsher words, but it’s not right."

Larry Scott, 40, said he had been in the Walmart on Saturday morning, several hours before the shooting. He had gotten two new tattoos on his left arm recently, including one of the Monopoly man holding a bag of money, and he needed ointment.

When he heard about the attack, Mr Scott, who said he serves in the Army and is stationed at nearby Fort Bliss, felt an urge to do something, to somehow pitch in. He came back to the store Sunday, but that offered little consolation.

El Paso was not his hometown. He was originally from Dallas, he said. Yet he had grown attached to the city.

“It’s not a big city,” he said. “But it’s our home. I’m hoping this makes El Paso stronger.”

Military man hailed as a hero after carrying as many children as he could to protect them from El Paso shooter

The Walmart where the shooting occurred lies on the east side of El Paso along Interstate 10, near a number of hotels, chain restaurants and a mall.

Aside from the wares that are aimed at Mexican shoppers, it resembles hundreds of other Walmarts across America. The store does not sell guns, but does sell ammunition, a Walmart spokesman, Randy Hargrove, said.

On Sunday, the store remained blocked off by police officers who continued to collect evidence of the massacre inside. The parking lot was still packed, with the same cars that had been sitting there since the shooting the day before.

A steady line of cars drove by, some with cameras pressed to their windows. One man walked up, stood silently for a moment, made the sign of the cross and walked away.

New York Times

 

 

[pops 7006]

1 hour ago, RDCanecutter said:

So Mexico wants to extradite this dude. Don't see why not.

Mexico doesn't exactly have a moral high ground when it comes to gun violence and innocent people getting killed. 

 

[BabaYaga 15304]

3 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

Maybe you should be less concerned about whether people call it a clip or a magazine and more concerned with actually spending some time learning the details about these mass murders before you make ignorant comments in the future. 

If you had, you would have known that the Ohio shooter used a 100-round magazine, nearly identical to the one posted. That's how he was able to kill 9 people and wound 27 others without reloading before the police killed him in 32 seconds. 

Even a 30 round magazine would have resulted in fewer victims. 

That's not the point I was making tough guy.  Now please go fuck yourself somewhere else.  You want to ban 100rd mags.  Go right ahead.  Like the bump-stock ban, this will accomplish fuck all other than making you feel like you "did something".

[Brisketexan 105213]

Mexico doesn't exactly have a moral high ground when it comes to gun violence and innocent people getting killed. 
 

Pssst. You might want to look into where the bulk of the firearms used for crimes in Mexico come from....

[crash_davis 23114]

8 minutes ago, pops said:

Mexico doesn't exactly have a moral high ground when it comes to gun violence and innocent people getting killed. 

 

why is mexico in a drug war?  oh yea, it's to control the supply for the billion dollar drug market in the US.

they are fighting to control the water supply because our house is a raging inferno which needs water.

[crash_davis 23114]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Pssst. You might want to look into where the bulk of the firearms used for crimes in Mexico come from....

and this...

[suddenly shaggy 929]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

That's not the point I was making tough guy.  Now please go fuck yourself somewhere else.  You want to ban 100rd mags.  Go right ahead.  Like the bump-stock ban, this will accomplish fuck all other than making you feel like you "did something".

That was the point you we're making. I'll quote you a second time, since you are embarrassed and pretending to have forgotten what you said.

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

Choose a better boogieman.  Nobody uses those outside of YouTube videos and movies. 

A 100-round magazine was used in one of the shootings currently being discussed and you were completely ignorant of that and were running your mouth attacking other posters. Internet flex all you want and pretend that didn't happen, the rest of us have reading comprehension skills. 

A 100-round magazine ban would have saved lives in the Dayton shooting. A bump stock ban would have saved lives in the Las Vegas shooting. A 30-round magazine ban would have saved lives in many of these shootings. Read about them next time before spouting off.

Here, I'll save you the google search on Dayton, since you obviously don't care enough to be informed before showing your ass.

https://time.com/5643405/what-to-know-shooting-dayton-ohio/

 

 

[GHOSTUSER 361]

I think the tactic of shouting down, belittling and throwing out the "racist" card on anyone who wants to restrict immigration has had an impact. Whether it is illegal immigration, cultural compatibility of Muslims to American values, etc.,  the liberal press, corporate America and the entertainment industry, have suppressed all talk about reasonable immigration and other social issues that conservatives disagree. If they provided a forum where both sides of the issue were discussed perhaps these deranged killers wouldn't be so deranged. They would feel like their voices were being expressed in the public discourse instead of being suppressed. Would that be a panacea and solve this shit? No. Do I think we should have some reasonable gun control, yes. We no longer communicate. Witness the CR. We no longer have community organizations. To quote from the WSJ:

"It is all-too-typical of most of these young male killers who tend to be loners and marinate in notions they absorb in the hours they spend online. They are usually disconnected to family, neighborhood, church, colleagues at work, or anything apart from their online universe. This is one price we are paying for the decline in what the late sociologist Peter Berger called the “mediating institutions” that help individuals form cultural and social attachments. These are churches, business and social clubs like the Rotary, charitable groups, even bowling leagues, and especially the family. Government programs can never replace these as protectors of troubled young people."

Cue the insults that from the usual suspects. Cue briskettexan going off on a deranged rant and calling me a terrorist.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Iconoclast Texan

[BabaYaga 15304]

2 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

That was the point you we're making. I'll quote you a second time, since you are embarrassed and pretending to have forgotten what you said.

A 100-round magazine was used in one of the shootings currently being discussed and you were completely ignorant of that and were running your mouth attacking other posters. Internet flex all you want and pretend that didn't happen, the rest of us have reading comprehension skills. 

A 100-round magazine ban would have saved lives in the Dayton shooting. A bump stock ban would have saved lives in the Las Vegas shooting. A 30-round magazine ban would have saved lives in many of these shootings. Read about them next time before spouting off.

Here, I'll save you the google search on Dayton, since you obviously don't care enough to be informed before showing your ass.

https://time.com/5643405/what-to-know-shooting-dayton-ohio/

 

 

And I'll repeat myself for a second time.  Ban them.  Go right ahead.  Again, like bump-stocks they have an ridiculously limited application that a lunatic was able to exploit.  100rd drums jam all the time.  They are heavy, hard to load, hard to clear, and make up an infinitesimally small percentage of magazines sold.  You have this childlike notion that if a person could kill 10 people with 100 rounds, he'd only be able to kill 3 with 30, etc.  It doesn't work that way.  You have no idea how many round were spent.  If there were pass through casualties.  The report said "dozens".  Is that 2 dozen?  3 dozen?  What is it exactly.  

That being said, the Columbine massacre was carried out using one of the first guns sold in compliance with the Clinton era assault weapons ban. 

The capability of the weapon is in the hands of the user, not the looks of the gun.  You have no way to know how many lives, if any would have been saved.  But keep fucking that chicken and patting yourself on the back that you "did something".  

[DDD Dad 14346]

8 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

I think the tactic of shouting down, belittling and throwing out the "racist" card on anyone who wants to restrict immigration has had an impact. Whether it is illegal immigration, cultural compatibility of Muslims to American values, etc.,  the liberal press, corporate America, the entertainment industry, have suppressed all talk about reasonable immigration and other social issues that conservatives disagree. If they provided a forum where both sides of the issue were discussed perhaps these deranged killers wouldn't be so deranged. They would feel like their voices were being expressed in the public discourse instead of being suppressed. Would that be a panacea and solve this shit? No. Do I think we should have some reasonable gun control, yes. We no longer communicate. Witness the CR. We no longer have community organizations. To quote from the WSJ:

"It is all-too-typical of most of these young male killers who tend to be loners and marinate in notions they absorb in the hours they spend online. They are usually disconnected to family, neighborhood, church, colleagues at work, or anything apart from their online universe. This is one price we are paying for the decline in what the late sociologist Peter Berger called the “mediating institutions” that help individuals form cultural and social attachments. These are churches, business and social clubs like the Rotary, charitable groups, even bowling leagues, and especially the family. Government programs can never replace these as protectors of troubled young people."

Cue the insults that from the usual suspects. Cue briskettexan going off on a deranged rant and calling me a terrorist.

You know if everyone is calling you a racist you might be a racist.

[Brisketexan 105213]

I think the tactic of shouting down, belittling and throwing out the "racist" card on anyone who wants to restrict immigration has had an impact. Whether it is illegal immigration, cultural compatibility of Muslims to American values, etc.,  the liberal press, corporate America and the entertainment industry, have suppressed all talk about reasonable immigration and other social issues that conservatives disagree. If they provided a forum where both sides of the issue were discussed perhaps these deranged killers wouldn't be so deranged. They would feel like their voices were being expressed in the public discourse instead of being suppressed. Would that be a panacea and solve this shit? No. Do I think we should have some reasonable gun control, yes. We no longer communicate. Witness the CR. We no longer have community organizations. To quote from the WSJ:

"It is all-too-typical of most of these young male killers who tend to be loners and marinate in notions they absorb in the hours they spend online. They are usually disconnected to family, neighborhood, church, colleagues at work, or anything apart from their online universe. This is one price we are paying for the decline in what the late sociologist Peter Berger called the “mediating institutions” that help individuals form cultural and social attachments. These are churches, business and social clubs like the Rotary, charitable groups, even bowling leagues, and especially the family. Government programs can never replace these as protectors of troubled young people."

Cue the insults that from the usual suspects. Cue briskettexan going off on a deranged rant and calling me a terrorist.

I didn’t say I wanted to go the border and shoot migrants. You did.

I didn’t say “shoot em!” at a Trump rally - trunmpkin did. And the crowd laughed. And the president laughed.

I don’t have to call that terrorism. It is, no matter what we call it.

But surely you’re right - if the libs weren’t so mean to you, you wouldn’t have to go shoot Mexicans. That’s clearly it.

You’re the wife-beating husband saying “if she just wasn’t so mouthy, and if she would have dinner ready when I get home, all this could have been avoided. I didn’t WANT to beat her....she brought this on herself.”

[yoladu 4094]

On 8/3/2019 at 7:44 PM, ChickenSandwich said:

Gun or no gun. This loser would have just worn an explosive vest or made a bomb. 

Murderers kill people. Fuck this piece of shit and Iets hope those who lost their lives did so quickly and with as little pain as possible. 

like this guy? Thank god a gun wasn't his weapon of choice. He likely would have succeeded.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/us/cesar-sayoc-sentencing-monday/index.html

 

[David Dennison 18944]

52 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

I think the tactic of shouting down, belittling and throwing out the "racist" card on anyone who wants to restrict immigration has had an impact. Whether it is illegal immigration, cultural compatibility of Muslims to American values, etc.,  the liberal press, corporate America and the entertainment industry, have suppressed all talk about reasonable immigration and other social issues that conservatives disagree. If they provided a forum where both sides of the issue were discussed perhaps these deranged killers wouldn't be so deranged. They would feel like their voices were being expressed in the public discourse instead of being suppressed. Would that be a panacea and solve this shit? No. Do I think we should have some reasonable gun control, yes. We no longer communicate. Witness the CR. We no longer have community organizations. To quote from the WSJ:

"It is all-too-typical of most of these young male killers who tend to be loners and marinate in notions they absorb in the hours they spend online. They are usually disconnected to family, neighborhood, church, colleagues at work, or anything apart from their online universe. This is one price we are paying for the decline in what the late sociologist Peter Berger called the “mediating institutions” that help individuals form cultural and social attachments. These are churches, business and social clubs like the Rotary, charitable groups, even bowling leagues, and especially the family. Government programs can never replace these as protectors of troubled young people."

Cue the insults that from the usual suspects. Cue briskettexan going off on a deranged rant and calling me a terrorist.

How about stop being racist.

 

[suddenly shaggy 929]

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

You have this childlike notion that if a person could kill 10 people with 100 rounds, he'd only be able to kill 3 with 30, etc.  It doesn't work that way.  You have no idea how many round were spent.  If there were pass through casualties.  The report said "dozens".  Is that 2 dozen?  3 dozen?  What is it exactly.  

Try to distract from your own ignorance all you want. I responded to you, because you aggressively called out another poster and said the poster should "Choose a better boogieman.  Nobody uses those outside of YouTube videos and movies." After being shown that a 100-round magazine was used in the Dayton shooting, you got hostile with me.

Now, you are continuing to be an ignorant dick. Read about the shooting before running your mouth and continuing to expose your ass. I know exactly how many rounds the shooter fired, it's in the article I posted in the in the post you are responding to. The shooter fired 41 rounds.

Dozens of shots can be heard, including a cacophony of gunfire at the end as police office engaged the gunman. Biehl said Monday that police had recovered at least 41 spent casings fired by the gunman. Police fired 65 times.

I'll save you some inevitable dissembling for in case you ever do get some basic facts and then try to mislead the board further. He killed his sister and her boyfriend, then went to the bars and fired. To be completely fair, it's not yet clear whether the 41 recovered shell casings are from the bar shootings, or whether it counts the rounds used to kill his sister and her boyfriend. Reports are that he ambushed them when they were unaware in their car. I strongly doubt he fired 11 rounds there and then only 30 at the bar district, but technically, we don't know yet. Regardless, sensible magazine limits of 5-10 rounds would have obviously saved lives in a 32 second shooting spree. It's indisputable in this incident. 

Continue to deflect all you want, but everything you've said since is beside the point of my original post, which is that you are an ignorant dumbass that didn't know the Dayton shooter used a 100-round magazine to kill his victims, but you didn't let that stop you from sharing your ignorance with the rest of us. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

There's no way all of those casualties came from his rifle. Not that he doesn't bear the responsibility for them all, but if the cops fired 65 times there were probably at least 30 stray bullets from their weapons flying around the place. And that's being extremely generous with their accuracy.

[BabaYaga 15304]

3 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

Try to distract from your own ignorance all you want. I responded to you, because you aggressively called out another poster and said the poster should "Choose a better boogieman.  Nobody uses those outside of YouTube videos and movies." After being shown that a 100-round magazine was used in the Dayton shooting, you got hostile with me.

Now, you are continuing to be an ignorant dick. Read about the shooting before running your mouth and continuing to expose your ass. I know exactly how many rounds the shooter fired, it's in the article I posted in the in the post you are responding to. The shooter fired 41 rounds.

 

The fucking point you continue to miss is this is a niche product used in a tragic, but isolated event.  The capacity of the magazine had nothing to do with this tragedy.  For the third time now - ban them.  Go for it.  It will accomplish nothing.  No different than banning Pistol grips, flash hiders, collapsible stocks, etc.  

There's a reason neither the military nor LE use them.  Because they are worthless.  He also had body armor.  Not exactly a spur of the moment endeavor. 

41 rounds.  We have no idea how many of those were impacts.  Misses?  Pass-through's.  We know nothing.  Nor does it matter.  Want to take a wild stab at the potential casualty numbers of a shotgun with such close proximity?  Or pipe bombs such as those the shooter in FL had.  Even a novice can perform a fluid mag swap on an AR in under two seconds.  You think someone who goes to the trouble of buying body armor doesn't take a few hours and learn how to swap out mags?  JFC.

[suddenly shaggy 929]

3 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

There's no way all of those casualties came from his rifle. Not that he doesn't bear the responsibility for them all, but if the cops fired 65 times there were probably at least 30 stray bullets from their weapons flying around the place. And that's being extremely generous with their accuracy.

I don't disagree, he fired 41 rounds and caused 36 casualties. That would be insanely accurate for even a trained shooter in those conditions, but it's beside the original point of my post responding to him calling another poster out and saying no one uses those aside from Youtube videos, when in fact the Dayton shooter just used a 100-round magazine. He fired 41 rounds without reloading, that's impossible without the 100-round magazine he used. 

I should have said even a 10-round magazine would have resulted in fewer casualties, because there is no disputing it. 

[Brisketexan 105213]

The fucking point you continue to miss is this is a niche product used in a tragic, but isolated event.  The capacity of the magazine had nothing to do with this tragedy.  For the third time now - ban them.  Go for it.  It will accomplish nothing.  No different than banning Pistol grips, flash hiders, collapsible stocks, etc.  
There's a reason neither the military nor LE use them.  Because they are worthless.  He also had body armor.  Not exactly a spur of the moment endeavor. 
41 rounds.  We have no idea how many of those were impacts.  Misses?  Pass-through's.  We know nothing.  Nor does it matter.  Want to take a wild stab at the potential casualty numbers of a shotgun with such close proximity?  Or pipe bombs such as those the shooter in FL had.  Even a novice can perform a fluid mag swap on an AR in under two seconds.  You think someone who goes to the trouble of buying body armor doesn't take a few hours and learn how to swap out mags?  JFC.

You mean....we should ignore the instances of shooters being stopped/taken out during a mag swap? They create an important window of opportunity for the good guys.

[threesheets 1674]

We need more bowling leagues people! Can't you fucking see that?

Holy shit I'm laughing so hard it hurts. 

[suddenly shaggy 929]

9 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

The fucking point you continue to miss is this is a niche product used in a tragic, but isolated event.  The capacity of the magazine had nothing to do with this tragedy.  For the third time now - ban them.  Go for it.  It will accomplish nothing.  No different than banning Pistol grips, flash hiders, collapsible stocks, etc.  

There's a reason neither the military nor LE use them.  Because they are worthless.  He also had body armor.  Not exactly a spur of the moment endeavor. 

41 rounds.  We have no idea how many of those were impacts.  Misses?  Pass-through's.  We know nothing.  Nor does it matter.  Want to take a wild stab at the potential casualty numbers of a shotgun with such close proximity?  Or pipe bombs such as those the shooter in FL had.  Even a novice can perform a fluid mag swap on an AR in under two seconds.  You think someone who goes to the trouble of buying body armor doesn't take a few hours and learn how to swap out mags?  JFC.

Nope. The point of my post is that you were ignorant of the fact that a 100-round magazine was just used when you tried to call another poster out for posting a picture of one.

Full stop. I should have left it at that so you had nothing to try to deflect from your own stupidity. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by suddenly shaggy

[Bone3421 716]

they don't have the death penalty, Texas does, send him to Huntsville

Im sure they have the unofficial death penalty in mexican prisons, just like other prisons...might get a little torture also

[DDD Dad 14346]

Or your arguing with a democrat...

You’re.

Also,

[immamac 42906]

10 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

3 hours ago, Smax said:

they don't have the death penalty, Texas does, send him to Huntsville

Im sure they have the unofficial death penalty in mexican prisons, just like other prisons...might get a little torture also

Why do we want to kill this person? Honestly that's too easy. I want this person to either suffer immensely in mental anguish or have a mental breakthrough where he realizes what he has done is wrong in such a way that the only way he feels he can live is to serve the cause of never letting this happen again and be tortured by the fact that he can't do anything because he's thrown his life away by mindlessly killing these people simply for the color of their skin or their nationality while shopping and protecting their children. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

I didn’t say I wanted to go the border and shoot migrants. You did.

I didn’t say “shoot em!” at a Trump rally - trunmpkin did. And the crowd laughed. And the president laughed.

I don’t have to call that terrorism. It is, no matter what we call it.

But surely you’re right - if the libs weren’t so mean to you, you wouldn’t have to go shoot Mexicans. That’s clearly it.

You’re the wife-beating husband saying “if she just wasn’t so mouthy, and if she would have dinner ready when I get home, all this could have been avoided. I didn’t WANT to beat her....she brought this on herself.”

I disagree with your take, Iconoclast. If you believe that conservatives viewpoints are being suppressed, then step right up and discuss the issue. I say this because whenever someone who is being repressed takes a stand and has a criticism about American culture and social mores and racism and immigration, those who are not affected by injustice don't discuss it the way you say you would like:

Quote

“When people go straight to, ‘They’re being disrespectful,’ they’re willingly ignoring what [Smith, Carlos and Kaepernick] were actually talking about. All the naysayers want to do is talk about the flag or the anthem because they don’t want to be having these real conversations about racism.”

Instead of talking about police brutality, it seemed all anyone wanted to talk about was the flag and kneeling. Or, 51 years ago, why Tommie Smith and John Carlos raised their fists on the medal stand, something which got them kicked out of the Olympic Village, death threats, and a lot of vitriol from folks back home. At least Howard Cosell asked Tommie Smith a question that once answered one could frame a discussion:

Quote

“Tommie,” he asked, “would you explain to the people of America exactly what you did and why you did it?”

So, when Mr. Smith, or Mr. Curtis, or Mr. Kaepernick say to me "I did X because of Y," the discussion to follow ought to focus on Y first wouldn't you agree? Otherwise, it isn't the press that is doing the deflecting, it is you.

 

Source for quotes: https://theundefeated.com/features/mexico-city-olympics-protest-media-john-carlos-tommie-smith/

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

19 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

I don't disagree, he fired 41 rounds and caused 36 casualties. That would be insanely accurate for even a trained shooter in those conditions, but it's beside the original point of my post responding to him calling another poster out and saying no one uses those aside from Youtube videos, when in fact the Dayton shooter just used a 100-round magazine. He fired 41 rounds without reloading, that's impossible without the 100-round magazine he used. 

I should have said even a 10-round magazine would have resulted in fewer casualties, because there is no disputing it. 

I wasn't trying to comment on the magazine. But if you want to go there, there are much better magazines capable of shooting 41 rounds that don't jam. In fact, the Aurora, Colorado shooter had one jam on him and said jamming likely mitigated the damages. That said, I have no problem banning those drum mags and such.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Sorry, quoted BrisketTexan, but I am referring to the post he was responding to by Iconoclast.

[Telegraph_it 3359]

25 minutes ago, immamac said:

Why do we want to kill this person? Honestly that's too easy. I want this person to either suffer immensely in mental anguish or have a mental breakthrough where he realizes what he has done is wrong in such a way that the only way he feels he can live is to serve the cause of never letting this happen again and be tortured by the fact that he can't do anything because he's thrown his life away by mindlessly killing these people simply for the color of their skin or their nationality while shopping and protecting their children. 

Agreed. He should have to live so he can see he is forgotten and his manifesto didn’t do shit.

[RDCanecutter 26462]

2 hours ago, pops said:

Mexico doesn't exactly have a moral high ground when it comes to gun violence and innocent people getting killed. 

 

Oh, no doubt. I do see some upsides to handing him over to the Mexicans though.

1. We don't need to feed this dirtbag.

2. Doing a swap has a certain "Old Time New York Mafia" vibe that makes me want to go get some nice linguine. With clams.

3. We certainly want some of the Mexican dirtbags that the Mexicans are holding. Let's start doing business.

4. Seeing this American dirtbag handed over to Mexico may forestall the ticking time-bomb inside some unbalanced Mexican's head who stares at American tourists in Cabo all day.

5. It will certainly scare the living shit out of similar US incels who think they'll shoot-em-up, surrender, then play D&D all day in a nice clean American prison.

6. It'd be funny. We need more things that are funny.

[fattyflattie 4638]

RD, I can only rep you once.  

[Bone3421 716]

Why do we want to kill this person? Honestly that's too easy. I want this person to either suffer immensely in mental anguish or have a mental breakthrough where he realizes what he has done is wrong in such a way that the only way he feels he can live is to serve the cause of never letting this happen again and be tortured by the fact that he can't do anything because he's thrown his life away by mindlessly killing these people simply for the color of their skin or their nationality while shopping and protecting their children. 

That would be fine to. My comment was in a modicum of jest, but i also do feel some people we shouldnt pay to keep alive. Yes the death penalty is more costly; which is why sometimes it is better to let prison justice handle it

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

Why do we want to kill this person? Honestly that's too easy. I want this person to either suffer immensely in mental anguish or have a mental breakthrough where he realizes what he has done is wrong in such a way that the only way he feels he can live is to serve the cause of never letting this happen again and be tortured by the fact that he can't do anything because he's thrown his life away by mindlessly killing these people simply for the color of their skin or their nationality while shopping and protecting their children. 

Perhaps he could serve his time washing the feet of each and every person who comes to our country seeking asylum. While he is washing and oiling their feet, they could tell him their stories of why they have left and why they wish to be here (through an interpreter if necessary). Although it is tempting to abuse him or to physically torture him, day after day of not being allowed to shirk the care and attention that must be given to human beings and serving as witness to their stories, their suffering, their lives might at first make him resentful or attempt to gruffly deny their humanity but the unceasing and unrelenting duty year after year that requires him to diligently and unceasingly serve all who wish to become Americans may eventually awaken in him a human heart.

But prison is probably his likely outcome.