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2019 Heisman Trophy Race

satyanash

By satyanash
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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38130

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Posted
On 9/10/2019 at 12:48 PM, Neonmoon said:

Updateded front runners are:

Justin Fields - dominant against a hapless Nebraska. Flavor of the moment 

Jalen Hurts - Texas Tech QB numbers in Texas Tech system but at OU so Heisman talk (see Baker, Kyler)

Joe Burrow - Texas game win still keeping him here. Auburn and Bama game looms 

Tua - Name recognition on undefeated Bama 

Jonathan Taylor - A RB on a undefeated team that actually runs the football 

 

Edited for week 6

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TXSooner518

TXSooner518 2455

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Posted
Have you played anyone worth a shit?


Did I say we have? Feel free to show me when Texas Tech was top 5 nationally in rush years, give all the times they hadn’t played anyone worth a shit.

The argument was JH is putting up numbers because of number of pass plays called and is entirely false. OU has run less offensive snaps than 100+ teams this year. Lots of them are runs. JH has missed the entire 4th Q twice and all but one series of the 3rd once.
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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38130

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1 hour ago, TXSooner518 said:

 


Did I say we have? Feel free to show me when Texas Tech was top 5 nationally in rush years, give all the times they hadn’t played anyone worth a shit.

The argument was JH is putting up numbers because of number of pass plays called and is entirely false. OU has run less offensive snaps than 100+ teams this year. Lots of them are runs. JH has missed the entire 4th Q twice and all but one series of the 3rd once.

 

Jalen Hurts played for Alabama and now OU. He’s putting up video game numbers now. Do you think that’s because he suddenly became a better QB or because of the system he’s in?

You can argue it’s better coaching but it’s the same thing to me. 

Like all the Tech QBs that flamed out in the NFL., like Baker and Kyler eventually doing the same, it’s a great system. It’s a compliment. I am just shitting on the Heisman for dismissing the Tech QBs  

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TXSooner518

TXSooner518 2455

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1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

Why is it absurd?

Oklahoma QB Jalen Hurts has recorded a pass efficiency rating of at least 245.0 in four consecutive games. No FBS player since at least 1996 has recorded more than two such games in a season (min. 18 attempts).

The Tech "system" argument is that, sure, they put up big numbers, they throw 70 passes a game. That's not what OU is doing.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/pass-rating-player-season.html

Jalen is #1 on this list. No Texas Tech player is in the top 100. 

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TXSooner518

TXSooner518 2455

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7 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Davis Webb was drafted on Day 2 in the 2017 NFL Draft. He wasn't exactly a scrub either.

Right, not saying those guys weren't solid or good or whatever, just saying there's a reason why JH is leading the Heisman race (and KM and BM won one) and the Tech guys didn't, and it isn't just the logo on the helmet.

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satyanash

satyanash 15769

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TXSooner518 said:

Oklahoma QB Jalen Hurts has recorded a pass efficiency rating of at least 245.0 in four consecutive games. No FBS player since at least 1996 has recorded more than two such games in a season (min. 18 attempts).

The Tech "system" argument is that, sure, they put up big numbers, they throw 70 passes a game. That's not what OU is doing.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/pass-rating-player-season.html

Jalen is #1 on this list. No Texas Tech player is in the top 100. 

You're missing the level of offensive talent blOU QBs have to work with.

Bradford literally won a Heisman by chilling behind the best offensive line in the country and either a) handing it off to one of his TWO 1,000-yard rushers, or b) tossing the ball to wide open receivers and letting them run up gaudy numbers for him. He never had to throw 70 passes a game (TTU QBs) or lead his team in rushing (VY, McCoy) to carry them to a win.

Edited by satyanash
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BluTechsan

BluTechsan 394

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1 hour ago, TXSooner518 said:

Right, not saying those guys weren't solid or good or whatever, just saying there's a reason why JH is leading the Heisman race (and KM and BM won one) and the Tech guys didn't, and it isn't just the logo on the helmet.

Yeah, playing with a teammates bound for the NFL is exactly the same as playing with a bunch scrubs.

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TXSooner518

TXSooner518 2455

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Just now, BluTechsan said:

It's his talent + the system + the players around him

It ain't just him.

The Tech QB naysayers always only factor just the QBs

I mean, I agree that JH wouldn't have the highest QB rating in history if he played for Montana right now, so sure. I just think that there's been a pretty big dismissal of his talent, again given that dozens and dozens of other QBs have been in his same situation, and none produced like he has so far (yes against soft competition, but dozens and dozens of other QBs faced the same level of competition without doing the same). 

He also isn't compiling numbers by volume. Tua has thrown 63 more passes than Jalen so far this year. 

Plus his "highest rating in history" doesn't even factor in his rushing, where he is 47 car, 443 yards, 5 TDs. 

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38130

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8 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

I mean, I agree that JH wouldn't have the highest QB rating in history if he played for Montana right now, so sure. I just think that there's been a pretty big dismissal of his talent, again given that dozens and dozens of other QBs have been in his same situation, and none produced like he has so far (yes against soft competition, but dozens and dozens of other QBs faced the same level of competition without doing the same). 

He also isn't compiling numbers by volume. Tua has thrown 63 more passes than Jalen so far this year. 

Plus his "highest rating in history" doesn't even factor in his rushing, where he is 47 car, 443 yards, 5 TDs. 

Why didn’t he put up the same numbers at Alabama? Because they run a different system. That’s it. He didn’t suddenly become more accurate or learn to read defenses better. He had just as much talent at Alabama. Baker, Kyler, Jalen all had to transfer away from a school because they were not as successful at their previous schools. Isn’t it weird that Baker was a typical Tech QB, no one thought anything of him, then put him in Riley air raid with 5 star talent around him, bam, he wins the Heisman? But around Texas Techs 50th ranked recruiting classes, he’s just another guy. Just like he will be in the NFL. My argument boils down to this. If you put Webb around Oklahoma talent, he would have won the Heisman. 

Edited by Neonmoon
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TXSooner518

TXSooner518 2455

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Actually, most CFB experts have specifically talked about how his reads have improved, most specifically getting to 2nd and 3rd reads. Another huge factor is he was scared to make mistakes under Saban. 

Also, you are completely disregarding that players do develop over time. Baker was a walkon freshman at Tech, yes after spending 4 years at OU under an offensive guru, he developed.

Hurts QB rating year over year: 139.1, 150.7, 196.7, 249.9 - big leap between soph and junior year too

Mayfield: 127.7, 173.3, 196.4, 198.9 - big leap between soph and junior year, even though soph year was under Riley and surrounded by NFL talent, hmm.

Question: How many college QBs do you think could be playing for OU this year and have the highest QB rating OF ALL TIME?  

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WBT

WBT 21122

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He's not going to finish with the highest rating of all time.  You should be asking how many QB could have his rating playing for OU against UH, South Dakota, UCLA, and Tech.  A real murderers' row of defenses there.  My guess is at least a dozen.

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TXSooner518

TXSooner518 2455

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No QB in history has posted a rating over 245 in more than 2 games in an entire season. He's 4 for 4. Are you saying no QB in history has played 2 teams as soft as those in history in a single season, and a dozen could all of a sudden do that? Sure it's against an admittedly not great lineup, but still 2 P5s and a decent G5 in there. Tua hasn't done it, and isn't he surrounded by NFL players playing soft teams?

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rungeflash

rungeflash 322

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Posted
1 hour ago, TXSooner518 said:

No QB in history has posted a rating over 245 in more than 2 games in an entire season. He's 4 for 4. Are you saying no QB in history has played 2 teams as soft as those in history in a single season, and a dozen could all of a sudden do that? Sure it's against an admittedly not great lineup, but still 2 P5s and a decent G5 in there. Tua hasn't done it, and isn't he surrounded by NFL players playing soft teams?

 

Try coming up for air from hurts ball line.....and quit reach'n 'round after so few games.  Blow u has played exactly nobody.  If dirt burglar beats Texas and hurts puts up pinball numbers in the cotton bowl, then by all means, let the slobbery continue. Until then, no one outside norman is impressed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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TXSooner518

TXSooner518 2455

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2 minutes ago, rungeflash said:

Try coming up for air from hurts ball line.....and quit reach'n 'round after so few games.  Blow u has played exactly nobody.  If dirt burglar beats Texas and hurts puts up pinball numbers in the cotton bowl, then by all means, let the slobbery continue. Until then, no one outside norman is impressed.

Well, that's pretty clearly not true given that he is leading every Heisman Trophy poll.

Also, again, thousands of QBs have played "nobody" and not done what JH has done thus far. Why?

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rungeflash

rungeflash 322

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TXSooner518 said:

Well, that's pretty clearly not true given that he is leading every Heisman Trophy poll.

Also, again, thousands of QBs have played "nobody" and not done what JH has done thus far. Why?

You mean the media like trotter n skippy?

The media is enamored with the story line....not the actual stats.  Why?  Because story lines sell clicks, not stats against air.

Thats the reason the hurts description always ends with these little nuggets....."competition level very poor so far"....."how will he fare against defenses with a pulse"

But damn they love the "banished bama qb proving saban wrong!"...."3rd blow u xfer could win heisman!".  Those are the click baits.  

 

Edited by rungeflash
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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38130

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Posted (edited)

Updated 

Justin Fields - idle. Still got the buzz 

Jalen Hurts - won’t drop but he got exposed for the one read QB he is against a porous defense 

Joe Burrow - Beats Florida in shootout, pads resume. Him and Fields are leading so far

Tua - Cruising along. Lacks “Heisman moment” so far. But he’s good 

Jonathan Taylor - A good RB on undefeated team. Playing for invite right now. 

Lawrence - I don’t see him winning shit. I don’t even think he’s invited this year. (Award will be given before playoffs so he could still win Championship)

Out 

Fromm - he was never in my rankings but he’s out with loss to South Carolina

 

Edited by Neonmoon
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sidis

sidis 10020

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right now, i am probably voting for burrow but at the end of the day, that will be determined by his performance at bama.  if he beats them, you can go ahead and call it.  if lsu pulls its typical pussy lay down and take a beating against them, then burrow will likely be out.  if it is a close shootout, probably doesn't hurt him.  obviously, a lot riding on that game between them.

hurts will get little credit with the remaining schedule regardless of stats.  if texas and ou rematch, that is his opportunity to jump back in.

fields still gets to do his thing against wisconsin, penn state, michigan, and probably wisconsin again.  if he lights them up, it's hard to imagine him not taking it, with burrow and either tua or hurts up there depending on what happens in the remaining games.  if burrow lights up bama, shut it down.

Edited by sidis
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