Is the tide turning?

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

18 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

This sounds like a lot of words to say “I’m not going to support the only party with a chance to defeat Donald Trump because I don’t like paying taxes and don’t really care about all of the harm he causes to other people, but don’t like being made to feel like an asshole for having this opinion.”

if what I just said makes you more likely to vote for Trump or 3rd party, well, I refer you to my prior post at the top of this page.

If given the chance, would you pull a lever that had the power to kill all of the trump supporters in this country in order to help those others he has (truthfully and unabashedly) wronged? I would hope that you don't even have to pause to think before saying no.

[RomaVicta 29902]

10 hours ago, Brandywine said:

I’m starting to think Trump won’t get re-elected because people will be exhausted and won’t be able to handle another 4 years of all of this craziness.

That's interesting. As most of us lament that none of the single scandals stick to him thus he will get away, it could very well be that the trees are so numerous that some won't be able to avoid seeing the forest.

I think that may be a good campaign approach. End the daily, exhausting craziness. Let's get back to governance.

That actually gives me a glimmer of optimism about the generally uninformed voter with a mildly open mind.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

8 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

If given the chance, would you pull a lever that had the power to kill all of the trump supporters in this country in order to help those others he has (truthfully and unabashedly) wronged? I would hope that you don't even have to pause to think before saying no.

Whew.  This is a tough one.  Should we or should we not murder 100,000,000 people.  

[RomaVicta 29902]

8 hours ago, Revolution512 said:

The hilarious part is the left trying to play the part of the innocent, the sympathetic, the working class party. You don’t have to lie to beat Trump. You’ve never cared about people of color. You don’t really want to pay more taxes. You’re full of shit, just like the other side. They’re just better at it than you are.

Negged for lying and projecting. It is imperative for someone wicked to believe all are wicked. 

I don't care about people of color. Nobody does. (lie)

I don't want to pay taxes for anything that benefits other people. Nobody does. (lie)

The second one is a double lie because of the disingenuous characterization of "paying more taxes." Nobody wants to pay excess taxes for items that just benefit the wealthy or produce no real good for the country. 

People who think as you do have abandoned any notion of being a citizen. You want all the benefits and fuck everyone else. Parasite. A decently functioning republic requires involved citizens making decisions for the common good.

 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

8 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

If given the chance, would you pull a lever that had the power to kill all of the trump supporters in this country in order to help those others he has (truthfully and unabashedly) wronged? I would hope that you don't even have to pause to think before saying no.

Whew.  This is a tough one.  Should we or should we not murder 100,000,000 people.  

[Bozo_Casanova 26437]

Divide ? hardly.  Yeah I'm pointing the finger at the party that claims to be for the little man, and minorities hasn't made their lives better. Now illegal immigrants are the cause du jour.  Yes lets add more uneducated, unskilled folks to welfare rolls. That'll make the situation better for sure.
Leadership is not promising free free free free stuff to everyone if they'll just vote for me....  You get that right ? Leadership is doing the hard things that people don't always like.

The lack of self awareness in this post is just...

-Chef’s kiss-

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The lack of self awareness in this post is just...

-Chef’s kiss-

The lack of critical thinking on your part other than democrat goooooood, republican baaaad is typical....

[RomaVicta 29902]

43 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Anti education ? Hardly, a well educated population is key to a successful nations health and future.  What people don't like are teachers, and professors trying to foist their personal political views into a classroom as fact.  Professors with tenure are the worst because they can get away with it without consequences.  

Kinda funny actually. No consequences for your actions... that's a major liberal mantra.

My friend, your voice and arguments are sounding hollower and hollower like the third echo off the mountains. These are dogmatic phrases which, I wonder, if you've really taken time to prove to yourself beyond anecdotes heard via right-wing sources.

How many public school teachers are foisting political views? Do you apply this to Evangelicals and their mix of politics and religion? Think about it. The anecdotes usually involve a single incident. What weight does that have in the student's life? Teachers actually preaching personal views should be fired. That's not an issue that divides. 

As for professors, they teach adults who are in college to learn to think as much as anything else. Is there evidence of some sort of mass brainwashing going on?

The underpinnings of the right's dogma have some value. Be careful with the people's money. Government institutions should not institutionally be advocating philosophy or any sort. Do we really need to be doing this and will it really help anything? All of that is good stuff. 

You've put the eggs of your philosophy in a basket designed to rot them. You don't have to become a leftist to find a better basket.

[Bozo_Casanova 26437]

The lack of critical thinking on your part other than democrat goooooood, republican baaaad is typical....

You’re adorable.

[Bateshorn 9927]

I’ll say the same thing that I say to everyone I work with:  There is no peak Trump.

[BradInATX 9208]

I pray that one day all those who profess to be Christians will try to live by the example of love that Christ gave us. That applies especially to Donald Trump and his supporters who have shown that they have no intention of following the example of Christ, but it also applies to those who would characterize everyone who either does not share political beliefs with the Democratic Party or those who reluctantly pulled the lever for Trump in 2016 as the same as his ardent supporters. There seems to be no room for individual thought left in our society. Instead those who are not in lock step with the preferred party are labeled as heretics and a political inquisition is brewing in America. I am economically conservative, but socially a liberal that supports all of our constitutional rights, an ideology not uncommon in our country. Neither party actually represents this demographic, as there is no real conservative party. Nor is there a party that actually supports all of our constitutional rights. Both parties are irresponsible with our money (Republicans moreso), and both parties only support those rights which they think further their agenda. Yet if one has this view and expresses disdain for both parties, they are insulted by both and lumped in with the opposite party by the insulator. The right would call you a RINO, and the left would call you a Trump supporter. There is no room for those who actually follow their convictions and vote third party. They are automatically assumed to support the opponent and appropriately demonized. If you don't have any Machiavellian tendencies in you then you are the enemy. This attitude is what will destroy our nation. It will not be solely destroyed by the Republican Party or the Democratic Party. It will be destroyed by both parties working in concert despite their illusions of opposition. 
Maybe we should actually look at what we have in common and try and go from there. Both sides of the spectrum love our country. Genuinely, they love it and want to see the best happen. Both sides want it to be a place where our children can grow up and all future generations can prosper. There is clearly a large body of disagreement on how to accomplish that, but claiming your opponent wishes to do the opposite is a sure recipe to ensure that it doesn't. 
Now, don't get me wrong, there are terrible things happening right now that need to be called out and stopped, but this attitude of hate for everyone who disagrees with you is only going to further our demise.

There is one party that is clearly more fiscally conservative than the other. Objectively, based on numbers and deficits. Not even a debate.

There is of course only one party that is socially liberal/libertarian.

It's the same party. I've always considered myself fiscally conservative and socially liberal and when I was younger, felt, like you, that neither party represented both of those.

Then as I watched four presidents in my adult lifetime, and noticed that the two most fiscally irresponsible were Trump and Bush, the lie we've been fed is apparent. The Republicans are socially conservative and fiscally liberal. The Dems aren't perfect, but they are more socially liberal and far more fiscally conservative than their counterparts.

"I am fiscally conservative" from Republicans is nothing more than a wink-and-nod statement that you hate "welfare queens" who shop with food stamps and drive away in their Cadillac.

You're right. There are a lot of us "leave my wallet and my rights alone". But if you're that, there's only one choice.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

There is one party that is clearly more fiscally conservative than the other. Objectively, based on numbers and deficits. Not even a debate.

There is of course only one party that is socially liberal/libertarian.

It's the same party. I've always considered myself fiscally conservative and socially liberal and when I was younger, felt, like you, that neither party represented both of those.

Then as I watched four presidents in my adult lifetime, and noticed that the two most fiscally irresponsible were Trump and Bush, the lie we've been fed is apparent. The Republicans are socially conservative and fiscally liberal. The Dems aren't perfect, but they are more socially liberal and far more fiscally conservative than their counterparts.

"I am fiscally conservative" from Republicans is nothing more than a wink-and-nod statement that you hate "welfare queens" who shop with food stamps and drive away in their Cadillac.

You're right. There are a lot of us "leave my wallet and my rights alone". But if you're that, there's only one choice.

There is only one party who has been in power, but their record has not been particularly great either. If you wish to change that then you have to make the choice of whether or not to support one of the parties in power, to support candidates within those parties who more closely embody those beliefs, or to support a third party in hopes that one day they will make a difference. All of these options are valid choices given the ideology. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

After the way Trump altered the Republican Party almost overnight, an argument for a third party makes less sense when you can just infiltrate one of the two parties and align them with your ideology/values. 

[BradInATX 9208]

There is only one party who has been in power, but their record has not been particularly great either. If you wish to change that then you have to make the choice of whether or not to support one of the parties in power, to support candidates within those parties who more closely embody those beliefs, or to support a third party in hopes that one day they will make a difference. All of these options are valid choices given the ideology. 

I don't disagree. I've voted third party POTUS on multiple occasions and many more down ballot. So I'm not saying it's an invalid choice.

But true change has to happen within the framework we're working with. Just look at the shift in the parties over the last four years. Activists on the left have made national conversations about things that were political third rails even just four years ago. And the right, well, they've actively made hate and willful ignorance a valid political belief system. All by playing within the constraints of a two-party system.

You mention "uniparty", so let me just assume that you're against corporatism, corruption, and money in politics. Wouldn't your vote be better used by voting Warren or Bernie in the primary, than voting third party in the general? By voting for either of them you're increasing the odds that corruption in politics gets addressed. By voting third party you're doing absolutely nothing except a personal vision quest that maybe makes you feel good.

Just saying. Realpolitik, etc.

[Anastasis 23462]

From the lookout post: "Is the tide turning?"

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Anastasis

[wildcat09 29345]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

After the way Trump altered the Republican Party almost overnight, an argument for a third party makes less sense when you can just infiltrate one of the two parties and align them with your ideology/values. 

Trump altered nothing. He did what he’s always done, he let others put their blood and sweat into building something then he came along and slapped his name on it. The fascists didn’t just suddenly infiltrate the GOP in 2015. They’ve been there a long damned time, steadily increasing their influence within the party.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Trump altered nothing. He did what he’s always done, he let others put their blood and sweat into building something then he came along and slapped his name on it. The fascists didn’t just suddenly infiltrate the GOP in 2015. They’ve been there a long damned time, steadily increasing their influence within the party.

I knew I was going to get this argument which is half-true.  Trump pulled the mask off the GOP and altered public perception of the Republican Party.

My counterpoint is Bernie Sanders and the way he has dog walked the Dems to be more progressive just by running for the Democratic nomination.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

back to the OP.  AP agrees.

 

Quote

NEW YORK (AP) — About 6 in 10 Americans disapprove of President Donald Trump’s overall job performance, according to a new poll released Thursday by The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research, which finds some support for the president’s handling of the U.S. economy but gives him weak marks on other major issues.

Just 36% of Americans approve of the way Trump is handling his job as president; 62% disapprove.

The numbers may be ugly for a first-term president facing reelection in 14 months, but they are remarkably consistent. Trump’s approval rating has never dipped below 32% or risen above 42% in AP-NORC polls since he took office. By comparison, President Barack Obama’s approval never dropped below 40% in polling by Gallup.

https://apnews.com/1ad13f32984a4480a45738ead2b4c0d8

 

[BrickHorn 18216]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Divide ? hardly.  Yeah I'm pointing the finger at the party that claims to be for the little man, and minorities hasn't made their lives better.

I agree.  Despite all the selfish, shitty things Republicans have done to make life worse for the poor and downtrodden in this country, the Democrats haven’t been able to save them.  Damned Democrats!

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Anti education ? Hardly, a well educated population is key to a successful nations health and future.  What people don't like are teachers, and professors trying to foist their personal political views into a classroom as fact.  Professors with tenure are the worst because they can get away with it without consequences.  

Kinda funny actually. No consequences for your actions... that's a major liberal mantra.

I'm looking hard but I don't see an ounce of shame in this post. 

[RomaVicta 29902]

24 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Trump altered nothing. He did what he’s always done, he let others put their blood and sweat into building something then he came along and slapped his name on it. The fascists didn’t just suddenly infiltrate the GOP in 2015. They’ve been there a long damned time, steadily increasing their influence within the party.

Agree. Agree. Agree. Trump just took the reins of what was created by the hate engine from those who thought that they could monopolize that that monster. That monster, the electorate is and will remain the problem. Better demagogues than Trump grin and drool awaiting their shot to take those reins.

[BLKNSTY 289]

I pray that one day all those who profess to be Christians will try to live by the example of love that Christ gave us. That applies especially to Donald Trump and his supporters who have shown that they have no intention of following the example of Christ, but it also applies to those who would characterize everyone who either does not share political beliefs with the Democratic Party or those who reluctantly pulled the lever for Trump in 2016 as the same as his ardent supporters. There seems to be no room for individual thought left in our society. Instead those who are not in lock step with the preferred party are labeled as heretics and a political inquisition is brewing in America. I am economically conservative, but socially a liberal that supports all of our constitutional rights, an ideology not uncommon in our country. Neither party actually represents this demographic, as there is no real conservative party. Nor is there a party that actually supports all of our constitutional rights. Both parties are irresponsible with our money (Republicans moreso), and both parties only support those rights which they think further their agenda. Yet if one has this view and expresses disdain for both parties, they are insulted by both and lumped in with the opposite party by the insulator. The right would call you a RINO, and the left would call you a Trump supporter. There is no room for those who actually follow their convictions and vote third party. They are automatically assumed to support the opponent and appropriately demonized. If you don't have any Machiavellian tendencies in you then you are the enemy. This attitude is what will destroy our nation. It will not be solely destroyed by the Republican Party or the Democratic Party. It will be destroyed by both parties working in concert despite their illusions of opposition. 
Maybe we should actually look at what we have in common and try and go from there. Both sides of the spectrum love our country. Genuinely, they love it and want to see the best happen. Both sides want it to be a place where our children can grow up and all future generations can prosper. There is clearly a large body of disagreement on how to accomplish that, but claiming your opponent wishes to do the opposite is a sure recipe to ensure that it doesn't. 
Now, don't get me wrong, there are terrible things happening right now that need to be called out and stopped, but this attitude of hate for everyone who disagrees with you is only going to further our demise.

what a crock of fucking bullshit.

some of us grew up in the Civil Rights Era and actually payed attention to the words of Dr. MLK.

“For evil to succeed, all it needs is for good men to do nothing.”

tell me how relying on y’alls fucking cowardice will solve this issue? if you don’t want to call people out for being pieces of shit, fine. then shut the fuck up and go about your daily ignorance.

we’ve fought tooth and nail for every single inch we’ve got and it sure wasn’t done by appealing to your fucking delicate sensibilities you coward.

if you ain’t part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.

and the problem today is Trumpkins, the “left is forcing me to reluctantly vote for Trump” people, and cowards like who bathe in ignorance when white supremacy comes to town.

so thanks, but no thanks. Trump is probably going to win 2020 tbh, but all that means is that I’ll keep fighting the good fight until 2024.

but the moment I start thinking like you, the game is over and likely has been for awhile.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

44 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Wouldn't your vote be better used by voting Warren or Bernie in the primary, than voting third party in the general? By voting for either of them you're increasing the odds that corruption in politics gets addressed. By voting third party you're doing absolutely nothing except a personal vision quest that maybe makes you feel good.

Just saying. Realpolitik, etc.

Those things are not mutually exclusive. And I disagree about voting third party in the general. If enough people vote for a third party candidate then the main parties take notice and we begin to see change within the parties. Do you think that Perot in 94 had no influence on the direction of either party? Part of the problem, of course, is lack of serious candidates from third parties, but this attitude that you must fully support one of the main parties only serves to perpetuate that problem.

[jimmyjazz 45888]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Anti education ? Hardly, a well educated population is key to a successful nations health and future.  What people don't like are teachers, and professors trying to foist their personal political views into a classroom as fact.  Professors with tenure are the worst because they can get away with it without consequences.  

Kinda funny actually. No consequences for your actions... that's a major liberal mantra.

You're such a fucking stooge.  For one, this foisting of personal views on students happens far less than you think it does.  Furthermore, tenure exists for a very simple reason that is 100% defensible to anyone with an intellect and who chooses to use it:  professors cannot be bullied into teaching the party line.

For God's sake, act like you went to college for once.  By the way, you will very much earn the consequences of your words and actions.

[wildcat09 29345]

48 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I knew I was going to get this argument which is half-true.  Trump pulled the mask off the GOP and altered public perception of the Republican Party.

My counterpoint is Bernie Sanders and the way he has dog walked the Dems to be more progressive just by running for the Democratic nomination.

The difference is that Bernie is the one who gave fuel to the movement left.  He had no equivalent of Fox News or the network of conservative websites bankrolled by billionaires constantly manufacturing propaganda. At most he had individual supporters that connected through social media, but that's not unique to him, his message simply resonated better with many so he was able to use the same platforms everyone else uses more effectively.  Bernie very much built the foundation for what came after his run.

Trump didn't even build a real campaign. The one thing he did was get the rest of the GOP to bow to him once the base others had built propelled him to victory, but those simpering weasels would have bowed to anyone else the base supported just as quickly and just as enthusiastically. That's just who they are.

[GSU&UT 1798]

23 minutes ago, BLKNSTY said:

 

what a crock of fucking bullshit.

some of us grew up in the Civil Rights Era and actually payed attention to the words of Dr. MLK.

“For evil to succeed, all it needs is for good men to do nothing.”

tell me how relying on y’alls fucking cowardice will solve this issue? if you don’t want to call people out for being pieces of shit, fine. then shut the fuck up and go about your daily ignorance.

we’ve fought tooth and nail for every single inch we’ve got and it sure wasn’t done by appealing to your fucking delicate sensibilities you coward.

if you ain’t part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.

and the problem today is Trumpkins, the “left is forcing me to reluctantly vote for Trump” people, and cowards like who bathe in ignorance when white supremacy comes to town.

so thanks, but no thanks. Trump is probably going to win 2020 tbh, but all that means is that I’ll keep fighting the good fight until 2024.

but the moment I start thinking like you, the game is over and likely has been for awhile.

 

This Martin Luther King Jr. quote is more apt than ever, especially with all the bitching about how ANTIFA is causing poor old me to have to vote for Trump.

"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

Edited August 22, 2019 by GSU&UT

[bolverk 29655]

22 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Those things are not mutually exclusive. And I disagree about voting third party in the general. If enough people vote for a third party candidate then the main parties take notice and we begin to see change within the parties. Do you think that Perot in 94 had no influence on the direction of either party? Part of the problem, of course, is lack of serious candidates from third parties, but this attitude that you must fully support one of the main parties only serves to perpetuate that problem.

That's fine, but there's certainly one party you should most definitely not support if you actually give a whit about fiscal responsibility.

Start from here from this discussion, starting an hour ago, if you're not following the other thread:

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Trump didn't even build a real campaign. The one thing he did was get the rest of the GOP to bow to him once the base others had built propelled him to victory, but those simpering weasels would have bowed to anyone else the base supported just as quickly and just as enthusiastically. That's just who they are.

Why start a 3rd party when you can just subvert a major party with bullshit or authenticity?  

Trump succeeded because the Republicans were weak.   I’d argue Bernie nearly did the same thing with the Dems.  Just because Bernie is genuine and Trump is a fraud doesn’t mean their tactics are mutually exclusive. 

I think you’re also discounting the Trump movement.  Trump harvested the fruits of the AstroTurfed Tea Party and united all the radical groups on the right (evangelicals, alt-right, tea party, NRA).   Anyone could have done it with effective messaging but Trump did consolidate political power by connecting the fervor of the nut-bars. 

[Anastasis 23462]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Why start a 3rd party when you can just subvert a major party with bullshit or authenticity?  

Clean break is required. For marketing purposes if nothing else. 

[GSU&UT 1798]

There's a lot of evidence we aren't breaking our two-party rule with a first past the post voting system. Other countries use this obviously, but they've long had multiple major parties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_law

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

4 minutes ago, bolverk said:

That's fine, but there's certainly one party you should most definitely not support if you actually give a whit about fiscal responsibility.

Start from here from this discussion, starting an hour ago, if you're not following the other thread:

 

For starters, I appreciate the fact that you started out by saying "That's fine." And rest assured that I have not supported the Republican party for quite some time because not only do they not represent any semblance of fiscal responsibility, but they also don't show any compassion towards those who need it most. In the last election I voted mostly third party mainly because I think it is important for the parties to see that they can't cater only to the extremes, but I also voted for a few Democrats where I thought that it would be more impactful. I didn't vote for a single Republican, despite how some of the folks on the left seem to want characterize me on threads like this. I'm generally of the opinion that we should remove all party affiliations from the ballots so that people cannot just vote for a single party of their choice without any previous knowledge, but rather have to actually do a bit of research and make a slightly more informed opinion.

[bolverk 29655]

12 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

For starters, I appreciate the fact that you started out by saying "That's fine." And rest assured that I have not supported the Republican party for quite some time because not only do they not represent any semblance of fiscal responsibility, but they also don't show any compassion towards those who need it most. In the last election I voted mostly third party mainly because I think it is important for the parties to see that they can't cater only to the extremes, but I also voted for a few Democrats where I thought that it would be more impactful. I didn't vote for a single Republican, despite how some of the folks on the left seem to want characterize me on threads like this. I'm generally of the opinion that we should remove all party affiliations from the ballots so that people cannot just vote for a single party of their choice without any previous knowledge, but rather have to actually do a bit of research and make a slightly more informed opinion.

I'm in full agreement that, in principle, we shouldn't have parties. Hell, George Washington voiced his opposition to them, but our winner-take-all system quickly precipitated their arrival. And since parties aren't going anywhere, I'd much prefer prefer a proportional multi-party system of representation but that's not happening anytime soon either.

And, like you, I don't vote strictly party-line for Democrats. Since my first presidential election, 1992, I've voted for a 3rd-party candidate twice. That said, I refuse to vote for any Republican even down the ballot where, in Texas, they're often not opposed by a Dem. I'll vote Libertarian, Green, Independent, or whatever over a Republican now. That party is a cancer.

Edited August 22, 2019 by bolverk

[Longhorn_Fan68 33864]

Possibly?: https://www.apnews.com/1ad13f32984a4480a45738ead2b4c0d8

[Pancho 44710]

3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Anti education ? Hardly, a well educated population is key to a successful nations health and future.  What people don't like are teachers, and professors trying to foist their personal political views into a classroom as fact.  Professors with tenure are the worst because they can get away with it without consequences.  

Kinda funny actually. No consequences for your actions... that's a major liberal mantra.

You do realize there’s a study that proves this really doesn’t happen, right?  And guess what—that study was done by a conservative. 

[David Dennison 18849]

But muh librul professors!

[Pancho 44710]

4 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Divide ? hardly.  Yeah I'm pointing the finger at the party that claims to be for the little man, and minorities hasn't made their lives better. Now illegal immigrants are the cause du jour.  Yes lets add more uneducated, unskilled folks to welfare rolls. That'll make the situation better for sure.

Leadership is not promising free free free free stuff to everyone if they'll just vote for me....  You get that right ? Leadership is doing the hard things that people don't always like.

 

White Conservatives: “Why do you vote Democrat when they have don’t nothing for minorities!”

Me: “What have Republicans done?”

White Conservatives: *silence*

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

21 minutes ago, Pancho said:

You do realize there’s a study that proves this really doesn’t happen, right?  And guess what—that study was done by a conservative. 

When conservative teachers do it they cheer. 

Suppression of liberal thought is the conservative ideology. 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[hayden_horn 11362]

3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Anti education ? Hardly, a well educated population is key to a successful nations health and future.  What people don't like are teachers, and professors trying to foist their personal political views into a classroom as fact.  Professors with tenure are the worst because they can get away with it without consequences.  

Kinda funny actually. No consequences for your actions... that's a major liberal mantra.

so, this is the trump voter mentality that we are all up against.

take a look at this post, and all the underpinning assumptions it requires. 

there is no convincing some people. the self-delusion is too strong.

let's lay out this way of thinking.

"teachers and professors trying to foist their personal political views into a classroom as fact."

what does this mean? does this mean a climate professor talking about anthropogenic global warning? does this mean an anthropology teacher talking about the age of the human race or the fossil record in general? does this mean a political science teacher talking about the southern strategy and its effect on the electorate?

the main assumption that this post encapsulates, in my opinion, is that liberal people are...sneaky? the evil liberal is sneakily out there trying to somehow take america down, and the classroom is one of their main chosen battlefields and propaganda is the weapon of choice, in order to infect the youth with liberal thinking. that's the only reason young people vote more liberal than older people - it must be because of some external pressure, not because young people actually think for themselves as they discover the world.

seriously, that's the main assumption. 

when the boogeyman is lurking around every corner, and when people live in fear, it's tough to shake that foundation.

i honestly think that trump voters are in for a reckoning as their world falls apart around them. old white voters are going to start panicking more than they currently are as the demographics shift. it's likely, in my opinion, that the pendulum shift is going to be way too far to the left as people tire of the above bullshit. but it's coming.

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

5 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

"teachers and professors trying to foist their personal political views into a classroom as fact."

what does this mean? does this mean a climate professor talking about anthropogenic global warning? does this mean an anthropology teacher talking about the age of the human race or the fossil record in general? does this mean a political science teacher talking about the southern strategy and its effect on the electorate?

For Republicans, the unfortunate reality is that facts and science have a liberal bias.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

IMO, we need a hard jolt to the left just to re-center.  

Re-centering now is still to the right of GWB. 

[wildcat09 29345]

4 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

so, this is the trump voter mentality that we are all up against.

take a look at this post, and all the underpinning assumptions it requires. 

there is no convincing some people. the self-delusion is too strong.

let's lay out this way of thinking.

"teachers and professors trying to foist their personal political views into a classroom as fact."

what does this mean? does this mean a climate professor talking about anthropogenic global warning? does this mean an anthropology teacher talking about the age of the human race or the fossil record in general? does this mean a political science teacher talking about the southern strategy and its effect on the electorate?

the main assumption that this post encapsulates, in my opinion, is that liberal people are...sneaky? the evil liberal is sneakily out there trying to somehow take america down, and the classroom is one of their main chosen battlefields and propaganda is the weapon of choice, in order to infect the youth with liberal thinking. that's the only reason young people vote more liberal than older people - it must be because of some external pressure, not because young people actually think for themselves as they discover the world.

seriously, that's the main assumption. 

when the boogeyman is lurking around every corner, and when people live in fear, it's tough to shake that foundation.

i honestly think that trump voters are in for a reckoning as their world falls apart around them. old white voters are going to start panicking more than they currently are as the demographics shift. it's likely, in my opinion, that the pendulum shift is going to be way too far to the left as people tire of the above bullshit. but it's coming.

It's the same reason the right completely flipped out in reaction to the Times' 1619 project, which is fantastic journalism and actually demonstrates the enormous patriotism of black Americans. Yet they interpret it as a liberal assault on the foundations of our country because it adds a perspective that they're terrified of acknowledging.   Their patriotism is so brittle and weak that they have to fully believe in the myths that they've created to sustain it, and they're terrified of anything that might challenge those myths. 

[David Dennison 18849]

The Democratic Party has done so little to make lives better for minorities that they vote for them overwhelmingly.

Weird.

[softlynow 1812]

13 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

When conservatives teachers do it they cheer. 

They suppression of liberal thought is the conservative ideology. 

It's also yet another instance of the snowflake mentality of today's "conservatives." For a group that loves to thump the personal responsibility line, they sure do blame a bunch of things on others.

What it really hammers home to me is that modern conservatism has been revealed to be nothing other than greed and naked self-interest dressed up to look like a high-minded ideology.

[hayden_horn 11362]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The Democratic Party has done so little to make lives better for minorities that they vote for them overwhelmingly.

Weird.

this is another one of those assumptions that underpin conservative thought these days.

minorities vote for democrats because...finish that thought and you end up with the assumption that minorities must be foolish AND ALSO that they have been fooled by the sneaky evil liberals.

Edited August 22, 2019 by hayden_horn

[softlynow 1812]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

IMO, we need a hard jolt to the left just to re-center.  

Re-centering now is still to the right of GWB. 

On immigration, his views should be the center. On taxes, no, the center should be on the side of at least trying to hold the deficit in check. His regime failed in that regard. On foreign adventures, fuck no.

In short, I very much disagree.

[bolverk 29655]

28 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Possibly?: https://www.apnews.com/1ad13f32984a4480a45738ead2b4c0d8

Man, he's even underwater on the economy.

http://www.apnorc.org/PDFs/AP-NORC Omnibus August 2019/trump_approval_chart.png

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, softlynow said:

On immigration, his views should be the center. On taxes, no, the center should be on the side of at least trying to hold the deficit in check. His regime failed in that regard. On foreign adventures, fuck no.

In short, I very much disagree.

Agree with all that.  I guess the argument I was trying to make is the only way to undo 30+ years of asymmetrical polarization by the Republicans is to pull the middle back to the left. 

[Biff Tannen 45665]

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

Man, he's even underwater on the economy.

http://www.apnorc.org/PDFs/AP-NORC Omnibus August 2019/trump_approval_chart.png

Yeah, but that's just a lie the libs are telling to sink the economy.  It's their fault.

[Brisketexan 105066]

 
White Conservatives: “Why do you vote Democrat when they have don’t nothing for minorities!”
Me: “What have Republicans done?”
White Conservatives: *silence*

Oh, the trumpism movement has done quite a bit for us messican types. Like repeatedly - literally thousands of times, including in deliberately purchased and published advertising - referred to us as “invaders” and the like, this eliciting the exact response you’d expect. Folks are slaughtering us when we go buy school supplies.
So, if you define “getting us mass-murdered” as “doing something,” then the current right wing movement is GETTING SHIT DONE.

[BradInATX 9208]

I like how the media keeps banging the recession drum even though we're not actually in one and it's not certain that there's one incoming, and the idiot "swing voters" are turning against Trump because they think we're in a recession.

Dems should fight fire with fire and turn the word "recession" into the "lock her up" of the 2020 campaign, regardless of whether we're actually in one or not. F it. 

Edited August 22, 2019 by BradInATX