Buying a new water heater

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Our water heater is from around 1994 and corroding around the pipes and our AC guy said we need to replace it soon.   Does one first buy a water heater at an appliance store and then hire someone to install it, like with a dishwasher, or do you hire a company to both provide the water heater and install, like with AC/heaters?   And is there anything I should specifically be looking for to distinguish between water heaters? 

Thanks! 

[ROFL BOX 6649]

They actually aren't too terribly difficult to do on your own; it's the electrical part that might scare you the most.

Where in your house is the offending WH located?  The process really isn't a headache but if you do want a professional then maybe save some time & take the old one out 1st?  Maybe drain it & save that time?
 

I just purchased a 50 gallon Rheem unit @ Homer Despot; from $ 619 down to $ 440.  Has a 12 year limited warranty on tank & parts, + 3 year full  in home labor.  Given the price drop, I went ahead & sprung for the extended warranty (something I very VERY rarely do).

PS:  A plumber suggestion is to remove the existing plastic drain valve (like a hose bib) & replace it with a brass one (sold on the same aisle, costs $ 9.00 or less).  The plastic one can take a single knock by your foot & it's broken off inside the tank exterior.

[TwiceHorn 31487]

Don't get American Standard.  Had some from 2011, 50 gallon gas and both crapped out in less than 8 years.  Gotdamn newfangled gas-control unit that doesn't use a conventional thermocouple.  Garbage.

[Francisco 2.0 32395]

This fall, going to replace our gas 75 gallon tank that's 22 years old.  Considering tankless.  Anyone else here gone that route?

 

 

[deadshank 24653]

4 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

This fall, going to replace our gas 75 gallon tank that's 22 years old.  Considering tankless.  Anyone else here gone that route?

 

 

Tankless are great.   And expensive.  

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

17 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Tankless are great.   And expensive.  

 

But there is a payback, if you're there for a few years.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

5 hours ago, ROFL BOX said:

They actually aren't too terribly difficult to do on your own; it's the electrical part that might scare you the most.

Where in your house is the offending WH located?  The process really isn't a headache but if you do want a professional then maybe save some time & take the old one out 1st?  Maybe drain it & save that time?
 

I just purchased a 50 gallon Rheem unit @ Homer Despot; from $ 619 down to $ 440.  Has a 12 year limited warranty on tank & parts, + 3 year full  in home labor.  Given the price drop, I went ahead & sprung for the extended warranty (something I very VERY rarely do).

PS:  A plumber suggestion is to remove the existing plastic drain valve (like a hose bib) & replace it with a brass one (sold on the same aisle, costs $ 9.00 or less).  The plastic one can take a single knock by your foot & it's broken off inside the tank exterior.

Some of the lay-dees on this site don't have husbands.

[mycox 582]

+rep for not calling it a hot water heater

[Okie State 3821]

I'm planning on preemptively replacing my 20 year old one this Fall once it's not 1000 degrees in the attic. I figured I'll at least remove the old one myself and maybe attempt to install the new one. Seems easy enough once you get it up there. Which of course means it will be a huge pain in the ass.

Any brands to look at or steer clear of? I think someone told me Bradford White made good ones.

[ROFL BOX 6649]

If I'm not mistaken, the new units are of a size that won't easily fit through existing attic access hatches / doors / whatevs.  Look that over.

& If you have the available folding paper, look into that Rheem I mentioned; see if it's on sale @ your  local Homer Despot as well.

Another item, remove the existing plastic drain valve (fancy for "hose bib") & put in this one:

 

The plastic one can easily get damaged, knocked off, etc.  Costs less than $ 8.50. 

Store SKU #1000042101

• Durable material resists rust and corrosion
• Allows draining of water heater for prolonged life span
• Tamper proof, no accidental discharge

 

[Shaggybevo 353]

I bought one at Home Depot and they also did the installation. Completely painless process.

[davidg 4038]

2 hours ago, Okie State said:

I'm planning on preemptively replacing my 20 year old one this Fall once it's not 1000 degrees in the attic. I figured I'll at least remove the old one myself and maybe attempt to install the new one. Seems easy enough once you get it up there. Which of course means it will be a huge pain in the ass.

Any brands to look at or steer clear of? I think someone told me Bradford White made good ones.

Get a friend or three to help you get the old one out of the attic.  Depending on your water, you might have another hundred pounds of buildup inside that thing.

Or just the old one down on the joists and let the next home owner worry about it.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

47 minutes ago, davidg said:

Or just the old one down on the joists and let the next home owner worry about it.

So you're the cunt bucket I bought my house from

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Is it really that easy to install yourself?  Shut off the water, drain, disconnect pipes, replace, reverse order about it?   How heavy are they empty? 

[davidg 4038]

15 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Is it really that easy to install yourself?  Shut off the water, drain, disconnect pipes, replace, reverse order about it?   How heavy are they empty? 

Yes they are that easy.  You just have to be careful and comfortable with working with either gas piping or AC electrical wiring.  Make sure to get the same size as the existing or your supply pipes and flex hose might not fit.  I bought a bigger size once without thinking about this and had to take it back.   A 40 gal will be around 100lbs or so but the old ones can sediment up if you have maintained the electrodes and they get heavy when that happens.

[davidg 4038]

33 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

So you're the cunt bucket I bought my house from

Haha.  Not me but a buddy when to his in-laws to change out one for them and there were two old ones already in the attic.  He said there are three now.

[Texaus 377]

I replaced one in attic several years ago and just rolled the old one out of the way and left it up there. Still there.

[TwiceHorn 31487]

21 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Don't get American Standard.  Had some from 2011, 50 gallon gas and both crapped out in less than 8 years.  Gotdamn newfangled gas-control unit that doesn't use a conventional thermocouple.  Garbage.

I should clarify.  Probably all gas water heaters have modular gas control units (pilot, burner feed and temperature control) that come out as a unit.  Some may continue to have easily replaced pilot and temperature thermocouples and some will not.  This is important because thermocouples fail with some frequency.  The American Standards do not have easily replaced thermocouples, or anything else.  The default solution to any non-tank-related problem is to replace the GCU, which is expensive and a pain in the ass.  And, circa 2010-2011, their GCU design was not very robust, apparently.

This is probably the way they're all going.  The days of 15-20 year water heaters are probably over, just like everything else.

[luke duke 6413]

But there is a payback, if you're there for a few years.

Like 25 years?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, luke duke said:

 

Like 25 years?

 

Damn, that long ?  They've gotten expensive.  The localities around here used to give you a $500-$1,000 credit when you purchased one.  I think they probably aren't doing that anymore.  Pretty much every home, and addition I design has tankless systems.

[deadshank 24653]

41 minutes ago, luke duke said:

 

Like 25 years?

 

With low NG prices?  Yes. 

Only worse payback is solar panels. 

[William_Cannon 86]

This fall, going to replace our gas 75 gallon tank that's 22 years old.  Considering tankless.  Anyone else here gone that route?
 
 

Yup. I replaced a 40G in my attic with a tankless. Was $4200 and then I got a $650 rebate from Texas Gas. Net it was roughly 2x the cost of a conventional. However I like not having 40 gallons overhead.

It does much better supporting simultaneous showers running so that is a bonus.

[fattyflattie 4639]

I have 2 in the attic that definitely won’t fit back thru the access. Pretty sure when they do go out, we’re going tankless. So far, they look exactly like the day they went in. 

[RPM 26322]

Rheem makes good water heaters. Replaced my OEM heater with one in '07. Zero problems with it. When it finally does need replacing I'm going tankless.

[horn4life 3761]

Iif it's electric it should have it's own breaker at the box, if it's gas it will have a valve, just turn those off before you do anything. Then reverse the removal process when you install then new one.  Take some pics with your iPhone,  if you are uncertain of anything. It's not rocket sicence. They are awkward and sort of heavy. 

I second the making sure the new model for the attic fits through the old hole sugguestion.  The opening will likely determine which unit you purchase.I will also say that if you are going to replace electric I would seriously look at the tankless options.  With gas tankless you often have to do some major vent replacement, but with electric it can create some space if you want/need it.

One other thing that I wish I had done, and I thought about it, damnit! I have gas but I thought about a small point of use tankless at my kitchen sink.  It takes a minute or two for the hot water to get to the kitchen as it's farthest from the gas water heater. The point of use units are pretty affordable, and instant hot water for kitchen sink and especially dishwasher would have been a plus.  

[ROFL BOX 6649]

I  have been told by many a plumber & electrician that the tankless in electric are not great options.

 

YMMV.

[ROFL BOX 6649]

Opened, in position... new unit comes with a brass valve ROTB, so no need to add on / swap out from plastic.

$ 8.88 + tax saved is $ 8.88 + tax is money earned.

[luke duke 6413]

You want a brass full port ball valve. You only solve half of the problem with a brass globe valve.

 

House Mods HMP010 Brass 3/4" MIP Water Heater Replacement Drain valve(Full Port, Ball Valve, 2 inch Shank) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074DGWLXZ/

 

Put a cap on it when you’re done.

Twinkle Star 4 Pack Garden Hose Brass Hose Cap with Washers, 3/4" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L3R2Y3L/

[Asithappens 974]

On 8/22/2019 at 6:26 PM, Francisco 2.0 said:

This fall, going to replace our gas 75 gallon tank that's 22 years old.  Considering tankless.  Anyone else here gone that route?

 

 

I looked into tankless. You'll probably need an upgrade to your gas lines/electrical power. 

Not worth it, imo. 

 

[luke duke 6413]

Tankless is not a good financial decision.

Do it if you need unlimited hot water, have space issues and/or if you’re paranoid about having 50gal of water in your attic.

[Asithappens 974]

5 hours ago, luke duke said:

Tankless is not a good financial decision.

Do it if you need unlimited hot water, have space issues and/or if you’re paranoid about having 50gal of water in your attic.

Yeah, but nobody needs unlimited water, even the smallest house has room for a water heater, and the risks of a water heater in the attic are minuscule. 

They are pretty neat, though.

[TwiceHorn 31487]

Yeah, tankless was half again as expensive as two 50 gallon.  And we were wired for 220 there.  But the pressure testing all through the house.

We have a little circulation pump and its close to instantaneous.

[Teddyballgame 441]

6 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

Yeah, but nobody needs unlimited water, even the smallest house has room for a water heater, and the risks of a water heater in the attic are minuscule. 

They are pretty neat, though.

I do a lot of business because of this logic.    Many water heaters in the attic never fail but the ones that do will destroy a house in a hurry.  That being said, tankless also fail..when either types fail at the supply line (most common) your going to be dealing with he same mess.   Turn a hose in your attic and go to work for 8 hours and you will have big issues when you get home.  

[Asithappens 974]

53 minutes ago, Teddyballgame said:

I do a lot of business because of this logic.    Many water heaters in the attic never fail but the ones that do will destroy a house in a hurry.  That being said, tankless also fail..when either types fail at the supply line (most common) your going to be dealing with he same mess.   Turn a hose in your attic and go to work for 8 hours and you will have big issues when you get home.  

Are you familiar with the concept of expected value?

And you do sound like a salesman.

Nttawwt.

[William_Cannon 86]

Tankless is not a good financial decision.

Do it if you need unlimited hot water, have space issues and/or if you’re paranoid about having 50gal of water in your attic.

Agree with this 100%. It sucked writing that check knowing the ROI isn’t there. However my paranoid ass is also enjoying the endless hot water.

Also agree that electric ones aren’t well regarded. Luckily I had a big ole gas pipe there.

[Teddyballgame 441]

1 hour ago, Asithappens said:

Are you familiar with the concept of expected value?

And you do sound like a salesman.

Nttawwt.

Explain expected value to a homeowner with a water heater failure in the attic..

and what exactly do think I am selling?  

[drt 638]

18 hours ago, Asithappens said:

Yeah, but nobody needs unlimited water, even the smallest house has room for a water heater, and the risks of a water heater in the attic are minuscule. 

They are pretty neat, though.

True, but it made a big difference to take out the water heater closet at the end of the hall in our house and add that space into the master bedroom closet on the other side of the wall.  Granted, not everyone is in a 1300 square foot house and needs every inch of storage space possible.

[zork 629]

Had this installed on an exterior wall of a 1800 sq ft townhome 3/3 we lived in while working on another house we live in now.  The townhome is a rental.  Installed in 2011 and still going strong.  No exhaust issues since it is external to the dwelling.

Rheem RTG-95XN Tankless Outdoor Natural Gas Water Heater

The newer version is this I think(bought it from these guys as well):

https://www.homeperfect.com/rheem-rtg-95xln-9-5-gpm-outdoor-tankless-low-nox-water-heater-for-3-bathroom-homes.html

We drip the lines closest to it, on those few days in DFW that are sub 32 degrees, so water flows even in freezing weather.  We have Pex water lines all on that exterior wall.  That was easy to do when we installed it because that wall was gutted.  There are foam covers for the lines but otherwise it has worked fine.

Electric tankless work fine but are the least efficient in terms of energy use or that was the case back in 2011.  Sometimes you pay more to have the small ones under the sink at the furthest point and they are electric, still way inefficient, but you don't wait for hot water.

Another house we have was an attic water heater replacement, nogo on the tankless due to the expense of rerouting larger gas pipe, more exhaust needs, etc.  So we just went back with a 50gal NG model and the plumber added a better drip pan to bring it up to code.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by zork

[shakahorn 1645]

Slight necro bump.  My handyman buddy says Rheem has gone to suck nowadays and avoid it like the plague.  Anyone with similar experience?  

[drt 638]

We use Navien for tankless and Rheem Performance Platinum Heat pump for tanked.  The heat pump water heaters are pretty awesome.  Spit out conditioned air, most can can duct that air to a specific location, and sip electricity.