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The Assault Weapons Ban

TahoeHorn

By TahoeHorn
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TahoeHorn

TahoeHorn 107

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The Dems have four choices for addressing the gun problem (and I agree that there is a problem): (1) try to effectively control guns, (2) do something ineffective which is designed to fool their constituents, and score a political win, (3) address non-gun factors like mental illness, or (4) wail, gnash teeth and raise money on the issue.

They will never try #1.  That would involve repealing the Second Amendment, amending the Fourth Amendment and taking on Bundy-type fights times thousands.  That's for starters.  Impossible.

They tried #2 in 1994.  They might try that again.  I doubt it. But this thread will reexamine that in more depth.

#3 is also possible.  But unlikely.  They want a political win, not results.  And that political win would go to the GOP.

#4 has been the choice for 99% of my life.  Why expect different?

Let's look at the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban.  I encourage you to look at this yourself.  You won't believe the stupidity I describe.  But if you don't want to be played for a fool again you should look at it.  To keep it simple I'll just discuss rifles. They grandfathered all old guns and prevented the manufacture or sale of new guns which had two or more of five essentially cosmetic features. Read that again.  We're talking only about stuff which is, practically speaking, only cosmetic.  It's like fire decals on cars.  Why does a fire decal make a car more dangerous?  (Hang with me here.)  Also note that you could manufacture or sell a rifle with any one of the "scary" features.  Just not two or more.  Also note that you could manufacture the scary feature and somebody could add it to a gun without a scary feature.  If he added it to a gun with a scary feature it was his problem, not yours.

So the scary features were: collapsible stock, pistol grip, flash hider, grenade mount and bayonet mount.

So now all you astute readers can observe that anybody planning to shoot up a school using a grenade launcher and a bayonet mount would have to : (1) use a pre-1994 rifle of which there were tens of thousands), buy a stolen gun (which is easy), (3) buy an illegally imported gun (and importing guns is easier than importing people or drugs), or buy a rifle with either a grenade launcher or bayonet mount and add the other yourself.  How many grenade launchings did we have because of the ban versus how many we would have had without the ban?  What the fuck does a grenade launcher have to do with anything?  I've never heard of any grenade launching incidents.  And if anybody wanted to launch grenades this law didn't even provide a speed bump.  The impact of any of these features on the lethality of a weapon is more than specious.  Flash hider?  Do you really think any law enforcement is looking for a concealed shooter in these mass shooting incidents?  Do you think that this law would do a whit to prevent somebody from having a flash hider if they thought they wanted one?

After the law was passed there used to be a parlor game trying to figure out if a gun was legal if it was made after the ban.  Even after studying the law carefully and taking a few hundred practice runs I'd get fooled.  "No, this was after the ban and it's legal"  "Can't be.  It's got a pistol grip, a collapsible stock and a bayonet mount.  That's not just two, but three scary items."  "Wrong.  The collapsible stock is welded uncollapsed, and the bayonet mount is plugged."  Silly, silly law.  Did it reduce gun deaths?  That's as silly as asking if a fire decal ban reduced deaths due to speeding hot rodders.

All the Dems acted like it did something.  All the Pubs acted like they lost some important need to have a grenade launcher or bayonet mount.  But there was massive political impact.

 

So, what's an assault rifle  in a new ban?  Same thing?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

 

 

Edited by TahoeHorn
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horncyclist

horncyclist 1387

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I don't think it's necessary to repeal the second amendment to do the first one. You can do a lot of bans, magazine and ammo limits, licensing and buybacks under the second amendment.

I also question the premise that the assault weapon ban did nothing because it was technically silly. It may have at least provided a cultural signal on those types of guns that limited their availability. That's speculation though but laws do more than what they say.

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SubliminalHorn

SubliminalHorn 6786

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Why is it that the Dems are the only ones with options? Are you conceding that republicans aren’t going to do jack shit for the betterment of America and we can expect continued treasonous behavior from the GOP? Do you ever hold your party accountable?

Edited by SubliminalHorn
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scottsins

scottsins 1966

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I don't think it's necessary to repeal the second amendment to do the first one. You can do a lot of bans, magazine and ammo.


The fact that Tahoe’s #1 is described as only possible with the repeal is his clever backhanded commentary on the general issue of whether effective gun control is possible.

Also, I love that #4 is all that’s left. This ignores the Dems trying to pass a somewhat controversial background check that was killed by republicans. It also ignores that the GOP is ALL about the super-awesome “thoughts and prayers” answer to the problem.

* Extra credit: The Dems *can’t* do anything at all because they don’t have the Senate.
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Post Oak

Post Oak 20208

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The Dems have 4 choices in addressing the gun problem.  

If this isn't a helluva a sentence and a perfect example of where we are as a country.

Me and mine aren't going to do shit about innocent people dying because we don't care. Plus some of them are brown and black and we kinda like that part.  Plus we've been bought by NRA Russian money.  So will the adults do something because we've abdicated our ability to make 95% of our citizens lives better.  However if you decide to do something don't do this or that.

We'll be over here offering thoughts and prayers while worrying about pizzagate, socialism, video games, abortions, how to not help sick people and fucking Greenland.

The Republican party is the most destructive, evil group on this burning planet.

Fuck you Tahoe and everyone you buy donuts for.  May all of you lose your guns and have to sign up for M4A and may all of your children marry Mexicans and convert to Islam.

 

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Tom

Tom 2959

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34 minutes ago, TahoeHorn said:

The Dems have four choices for addressing the gun problem 

 

 

So three more choices than the Republican option to the mass shootings problem.  (Thoughts and prayers)

 

 

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retread

retread 2951

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24 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

The Dems have 4 choices in addressing the gun problem.  

If this isn't a helluva a sentence and a perfect example of where we are as a country.

There is no sitting down in a room and hammering out a compromise. Our govt. is paralyzed by Turtle, Cheeto, and their lackeys.

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Horn Dog

Horn Dog 9816

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56 minutes ago, horncyclist said:

I don't think it's necessary to repeal the second amendment to do the first one. You can do a lot of bans, magazine and ammo limits, licensing and buybacks under the second amendment.

I agree.  Here is my proposal:

1.  Shotgun, bb guns  and bolt action rifles- no change from current law

2. Handgun.  Background check.  Tax of $10,000.  Also a note from a mental health expert certifying your mental capacity to own this weapon.  Same as required for taking an emotional support animal on a plane.  If holder shoots up a group of people, certifying Practioner loses license and subject to civil penalties if grossly negligent.

3.  Semiautomatic rifles-  same as handgun and   Tax of $1,000,000.   Still legal though.

4.  Bullet cartridge >5 bullets.  same as handguns.  Tax of 1,000,000.

5.  Bullets for handguns and semiautomatic rifles.  Tax of $100 each.

 

 

 

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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4975

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3 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

I agree.  Here is my proposal:

1.  Shotgun, bb guns  and bolt action rifles- no change from current law

2. Handgun.  Background check.  Tax of $10,000.  Also a note from a mental health expert certifying your mental capacity to own this weapon.  Same as required for taking an emotional support animal on a plane.  If holder shoots up a group of people, certifying Practioner loses license and subject to civil penalties if grossly negligent.

3.  Semiautomatic rifles-  same as handgun and   Tax of $1,000,000.   Still legal though.

4.  Bullet cartridge >5 bullets.  same as handguns.  Tax of 1,000,000.

5.  Bullets for handguns and semiautomatic rifles.  Tax of $100 each.

 

 

 

And people say that the Republicans are the party of the rich and powerful. Let's make it so that the poor cannot exercise their civil rights! The compassionate left...

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Horn Dog

Horn Dog 9816

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2 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

And people say that the Republicans are the party of the rich and powerful. Let's make it so that the poor cannot exercise their civil rights! The compassionate left...

Okay how about this.  Tax of $1,000,000,000,000,0000,000,000

better?  The point is you don’t have to overturn the 2A to essentially outlaw them.  

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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4975

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15 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

Okay how about this.  Tax of $1,000,000,000,000,0000,000,000

better?  The point is you don’t have to overturn the 2A to essentially outlaw them.  

We should do that with voting. That way nobody wins the popular vote and the electors have a free for all. Totally constitutional.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23463

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1 hour ago, Horn Dog said:

Okay how about this.  Tax of $1,000,000,000,000,0000,000,000

better?  The point is you don’t have to overturn the 2A to essentially outlaw them.  

I think that we should require a $1,000,000 tax to post anything under than food, booze, or sports on twitter. 

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TahoeHorn

TahoeHorn 107

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I left out a fifth option for the Dems.  I'll call it the Chris Christie option because he recently described it on This Week.  But it's so impossible I think you'll understand why I forgot it.

 

Christie argues that if the Dems want something like universal background checks that they can get it.  All they have to do is make sure that Trump gets all the credit. ("Only a great negotiator like Trump could pull this off."  Only a man with great courage and strength like Trump could stand up to the NRA and win"  You get the idea.)  There is a deal where Trump wins more politically from the gratitude of soccer moms and swing voters than he loses from the portion of the GOP which would be enraged and turn on him.  The numbers are there and Trump has such an ego that he would go for it.  But great fawning and obsequiousness would be required.  The deal would have to assure that only Trump got the credit, and that Dems never could have pulled it off.

 

Do they want the credit or universal background checks?  Get real.  You know why I didn't remember this option.

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TornACL

TornACL 7698

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To me, this issue is like the old as fuck computer illiterate morons trying to pass tech legislation. They have no idea what they are talking about. 

You need people who know guns to support smart gun control. 

It will never happen. 

Once people get mesmerized by their toys that help them compensate for their small dicks, all reason goes out the window. 

 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23463

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3 minutes ago, TahoeHorn said:

I left out a fifth option for the Dems.  I'll call it the Chris Christie option because he recently described it on This Week.  But it's so impossible I think you'll understand why I forgot it.

 

Christie argues that if the Dems want something like universal background checks that they can get it.  All they have to do is make sure that Trump gets all the credit. ("Only a great negotiator like Trump could pull this off."  Only a man with great courage and strength like Trump could stand up to the NRA and win"  You get the idea.)  There is a deal where Trump wins more politically from the gratitude of soccer moms and swing voters than he loses from the portion of the GOP which would be enraged and turn on him.  The numbers are there and Trump has such an ego that he would go for it.  But great fawning and obsequiousness would be required.  The deal would have to assure that only Trump got the credit, and that Dems never could have pulled it off.

 

Do they want the credit or universal background checks?  Get real.  You know why I didn't remember this option.

Why?  All they have to do is wait until 2021, when they control two branches of government, overturn the legislative filibuster, and then cram whatever they want down everyone's throat.  And we will have the piece of shit GOP political party sitting there sucking their thumbs in the corner. 

Edited by Anastasis
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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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Why is it only up to Democrats?

Are Republicans admitting they have capitulated all responsibility on the issue of gun violence because they are owned by the NRA and it’s dirty money?

Actually, please do allow Democrats to claim all the seats at this particular table.

With the new precedent set of expanded presidential powers for emergency declarations, the next president will have carte blanche to deal with this issue once and for all.

And because the NRARepublicans have refused to come to the table and compromise at all I hope the next president doesn’t stop at assault weapons.

Hold on to your butts gun nuts.

Your stubbornness has turned those of us who were moderates on gun control just a few short years ago into militants.

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lemonlime

lemonlime 5503

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9 hours ago, TahoeHorn said:

I left out a fifth option for the Dems.  I'll call it the Chris Christie option because he recently described it on This Week.  But it's so impossible I think you'll understand why I forgot it.

 

Christie argues that if the Dems want something like universal background checks that they can get it.  All they have to do is make sure that Trump gets all the credit. ("Only a great negotiator like Trump could pull this off."  Only a man with great courage and strength like Trump could stand up to the NRA and win"  You get the idea.)  There is a deal where Trump wins more politically from the gratitude of soccer moms and swing voters than he loses from the portion of the GOP which would be enraged and turn on him.  The numbers are there and Trump has such an ego that he would go for it.  But great fawning and obsequiousness would be required.  The deal would have to assure that only Trump got the credit, and that Dems never could have pulled it off.

 

Do they want the credit or universal background checks?  Get real.  You know why I didn't remember this option.

You know who also could run with this idea?  The Republicans.  Why the hell aren't you criticizing them for not doing this?  Oh, I know.  You don't actually give a flying fuck about gun violence.    

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Horn Dog

Horn Dog 9816

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12 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

We should do that with voting. That way nobody wins the popular vote and the electors have a free for all. Totally constitutional.

Last I checked taxes on guns and ammo are actually constitutionally allowed.  Are you saying that taxes on guns and ammo  are unconstitutional in the same way a vote tax is?  

Obviously my proposal is tongue in cheek.  Again, the point is you don't have to directly go after the 2A to put significant restrictions on military style arms and ammo.  It can be done without a constitutional amendment and all that it entails.

 

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kevwun

kevwun 15764

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Nothing will happen until the Dems control all 3 branches of government and then those of us who own guns probably aren't going to like the new laws.  That's what happens when you refuse to compromise though.  Cutting off your nose to spite your face.

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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4975

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2 hours ago, Horn Dog said:

Last I checked taxes on guns and ammo are actually constitutionally allowed.  Are you saying that taxes on guns and ammo  are unconstitutional in the same way a vote tax is?  

Obviously my proposal is tongue in cheek.  Again, the point is you don't have to directly go after the 2A to put significant restrictions on military style arms and ammo.  It can be done without a constitutional amendment and all that it entails.

 

An excessive tax would most likely be rule unconstitutional, yes. The only reason that firearms have extra taxes on them is because gun owners/sportsmen asked for them in order to support conservation. It raised three quarters of a billion dollars in 2017, so if you want to drastically reduce gun sales, keep in mind that you need to balance out any lost revenue from the FAET.

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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 5947

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don't know how many of these make it out in the national media but there's these quacks that get busted weekly:

https://dcist.com/story/19/08/23/man-arrested-for-threatening-to-shoot-up-a-planned-parenthood-in-d-c/

 

I'm surprised there's not more shootings than there are, especially since certain politicians will only double down on Antifa. 

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