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David Koch is dead

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19190

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

I have some empathy for the Koch brothers.  They're good old-fashioned rich-guy business Republicans who just wanted to make an asston of money and needed government regulation not to prevent them from doing so.  The only thing unique about them was their extremity, both in their objectives and in the pursuit of those objectives.

In pursuing their objectives by financing the Tea Party, they unwittingly facilitated the rise of the white-nationalist Party of Trump.  In that, they're not alone (I say as I look in the mirror).

Unlike some others, they recognized what has become of the GOP.  Their donations went down significantly over the past four years.  That's to their (limited) credit.

We all make bad decisions.  We just don't have the wherewithal to dump billions of dollars in furtherance of those bad decisions.  But even within my limited means, I often look at my bad decisions and the consequences caused by them and mournfully think "what the fuck have I done?".

I can't imagine the scope of the "what the fuck have I done" that the Koch brothers ask themselves.

They probably spent more money paying off GOP politicians than they would have paid in taxes if they had just left well enough alone.

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yoladu

yoladu 4093

Posted
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31 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

They probably spent more money paying off GOP politicians than they would have paid in taxes if they had just left well enough alone.

that is pretty naive.

https://americansfortaxfairness.org/koch-brothers-1-billion-tax-cut/

from the article:

""A new analysis by Americans for Tax Fairness estimates that Charles Koch and David Koch and/or Koch Industries could save between $1 billion and $1.4 billion combined in income taxes each year from the Trump tax law

The Koch groups spent over $20 million promoting the tax bill that ultimately became law, according to a fact sheet they provided to the Wall Street Journal.

That’s not a bad return on investment: what’s $20 million when you’re looking at a billion or more in tax breaks?"

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15531

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Great post, LL. The theme of willingness to review your own actions with a tap to your heart and a mea culpa is worthwhile in the current environment of political discourse.

You paint the Kochs, whom I only know a little about, as humans rather than devils. There are no devils. Anybody can be as wicked as these brothers. Anybody can try to do something to mitigate their bad acts. I see that as the extent of your empathy. I don't mistake the empathy for admiration.

These actors harmed the US immeasurably and may have put 100s of millions of people at risk by funding science denial. They fund the hate engine. Their motives have little scent of altruism. I doubt that they have ever spent a moment being as reflective as you.

We reap that which we sow, do we not?

And they sowed racism, nihilism, and anti-intellectualism in the pursuit of a few extra billion. 

And their harvest is Donald Trump, the dissolution of the Republican Party as a pro-business, fiscally conservative political party (to the extent it ever really was), and the destruction of the post-World War II global economic order that has led to a century of peace and prosperity of which they are among the greatest beneficiaries.  Truly, among the clearest fruits of their harvest was the 600-point decline on the DJIA on the day David died.

And you know the best part--they knew what they have wrought.  That's clear from their recent comments in interviews and elsewhere; it's clear in their actions and political contributions.

Seeing and understanding the consequences of your misconduct--that's a punishment.  Not a punishment that is going to satisfy the victims of that misconduct.  But it is a punishment.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29349

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

We reap that which we sow, do we not?

And they sowed racism, nihilism, and anti-intellectualism in the pursuit of a few extra billion. 

And their harvest is Donald Trump, the dissolution of the Republican Party as a pro-business, fiscally conservative political party (to the extent it ever really was), and the destruction of the post-World War II global economic order that has led to a century of peace and prosperity of which they are among the greatest beneficiaries.  Truly, among the clearest fruits of their harvest was the 600-point decline on the DJIA on the day David died.

And you know the best part--they knew what they have wrought.  That's clear from their recent comments in interviews and elsewhere; it's clear in their actions and political contributions.

Seeing and understanding the consequences of your misconduct--that's a punishment.  Not a punishment that is going to satisfy the victims of that misconduct.  But it is a punishment.

They spent something like $400 million to support the GOP in the 2018 midterms.

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19190

Posted
Posted
that is pretty naive.
https://americansfortaxfairness.org/koch-brothers-1-billion-tax-cut/
from the article:
""A new analysis by Americans for Tax Fairness estimates that Charles Koch and David Koch and/or Koch Industries could save between $1 billion and $1.4 billion combined in income taxes each year from the Trump tax law
The Koch groups spent over $20 million promoting the tax bill that ultimately became law, according to a fact sheet they provided to the Wall Street Journal.
That’s not a bad return on investment: what’s $20 million when you’re looking at a billion or more in tax breaks?"

They spent a hell of a lot of money on more than this one tax bill.
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High Plains Drifter

High Plains Drifter 11036

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

I have some empathy for the Koch brothers.  They're good old-fashioned rich-guy business Republicans who just wanted to make an asston of money and needed government regulation not to prevent them from doing so.  The only thing unique about them was their extremity, both in their objectives and in the pursuit of those objectives.

In pursuing their objectives by financing the Tea Party, they unwittingly facilitated the rise of the white-nationalist Party of Trump.  In that, they're not alone (I say as I look in the mirror).

Unlike some others, they recognized what has become of the GOP.  Their donations went down significantly over the past four years.  That's to their (limited) credit.

We all make bad decisions.  We just don't have the wherewithal to dump billions of dollars in furtherance of those bad decisions.  But even within my limited means, I often look at my bad decisions and the consequences caused by them and mournfully think "what the fuck have I done?".

I can't imagine the scope of the "what the fuck have I done" that the Koch brothers ask themselves.

Negged

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted

Gonna post this here.  Most of you will predictably scoff at it.  I am not a fan of theirs.  Most of you don't know the ideology of David it seems:

https://reason.com/2019/08/23/rip-david-koch/?utm_medium=email

Doesn't make any excuses for him, it's just some information that most of you won't come across because you live in an echo chamber.  

 

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Hank Scorpio

Hank Scorpio 17729

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Gonna post this here.  Most of you will predictably scoff at it.  I am not a fan of theirs.  Most of you don't know the ideology of David it seems:

https://reason.com/2019/08/23/rip-david-koch/?utm_medium=email

Doesn't make any excuses for him, it's just some information that most of you won't come across because you live in an echo chamber.  

 

hahahahaha fuck you and him

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Js1

Js1 85313

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Gonna post this here.  Most of you will predictably scoff at it.  I am not a fan of theirs.  Most of you don't know the ideology of David it seems:

https://reason.com/2019/08/23/rip-david-koch/?utm_medium=email

Doesn't make any excuses for him, it's just some information that most of you won't come across because you live in an echo chamber.  

 

Just as fucking insufferable as you were on Shaggy. 

Fuck off. 

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sidis

sidis 9826

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Gonna post this here.  Most of you will predictably scoff at it.  I am not a fan of theirs.  Most of you don't know the ideology of David it seems:

https://reason.com/2019/08/23/rip-david-koch/?utm_medium=email

Doesn't make any excuses for him, it's just some information that most of you won't come across because you live in an echo chamber.  

 

why do you say that most of "us" do not know the ideology of david koch?

also, what information did you glean from that article that wasn't widely known or remotely interesting?  i am genuinely curious.

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TexArcher

TexArcher 37774

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

I have some empathy for the Koch brothers.  They're good old-fashioned rich-guy business Republicans who just wanted to make an asston of money and needed government regulation not to prevent them from doing so.  The only thing unique about them was their extremity, both in their objectives and in the pursuit of those objectives.

In pursuing their objectives by financing the Tea Party, they unwittingly facilitated the rise of the white-nationalist Party of Trump.  In that, they're not alone (I say as I look in the mirror).

Unlike some others, they recognized what has become of the GOP.  Their donations went down significantly over the past four years.  That's to their (limited) credit.

We all make bad decisions.  We just don't have the wherewithal to dump billions of dollars in furtherance of those bad decisions.  But even within my limited means, I often look at my bad decisions and the consequences caused by them and mournfully think "what the fuck have I done?".

I can't imagine the scope of the "what the fuck have I done" that the Koch brothers ask themselves.

I think you're giving them too much credit.

They are too smart to actually have believed that climate scientists around the world were part of some American liberal conspiracy to manipulate the data, or that 97% of climate scientists around the world were simply coming to an incorrect conclusion.

And they don't care that their support of the Tea Party led to the collateral damage that is the Trump presidency any more than they care that their propaganda to discredit climate scientists led to the collateral damage of probably ending the human race within a century or two.

The Koch brothers don't sit around feeling guilty about fucking over the entire species to get richer.  They knew exactly what they were doing.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted
1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Just as fucking insufferable as you were on Shaggy. 

Fuck off. 

Okay, got it.  I didnt like him.  Just thought many didn’t realize he wasn’t the far right social conservative he was portrayed as.  

 

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Okay, got it.  I didnt like him.  Just thought many didn’t realize he wasn’t the far right social conservative he was portrayed as.  

 

I don't really care.  He funded far right social conservatives.   That he may have done so simply for personal gain without even believing in social conservativism makes him a worse person, not better. 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

I don't really care.  He funded far right social conservatives.   That he may have done so simply for personal gain without even believing in social conservativism makes him a worse person, not better. 

He absolutely did that.  I was merely discussing what his persona ideology and values were.  People sometimes do that after someone dies.  Not excusing him, if you are able to accurately read my post.  Simply posting a link that many people did not know about.  For that, of course, I incur the wrath of the surly badasses.  

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sidis

sidis 9826

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Lobo said:

He absolutely did that.  I was merely discussing what his persona ideology and values were.  People sometimes do that after someone dies.  Not excusing him, if you are able to accurately read my post.  Simply posting a link that many people did not know about.  For that, of course, I incur the wrath of the surly badasses.  

I don’t know you and am not influenced by your previous handle because I don’t know what it was. 

But I’m not sure you get to play the woe is me victim card that people didn’t respond favorably to your post when you say you just posted a link...at least not when the reality is you posting the link accompanied with an assumption that no one on this board knew what his political “philosophy” was (which was a dumb fucking assumption by the way) and accusing/insulting all the posters in the thread of living in “an echo chamber” as if you were bringing light and knowledge to the dark, ignorant masses. 

Not sure that would be accurately described as “just posting a link.”

Edited by sidis
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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted

Got it, chief.  High five.  This is me admitting perhaps my last comment on the post was a bit shitty.  You're probably more well-informed than most, but don't sit there and tell me what Reason Magazine/Reason Foundation is just another right-wing facist outlet for the Koch Brothers.  It was a fucking link, and then a sassy sentence by me.  People like David Koch can have nuance to them.  He was an asshole, all I did was mention there was more to him than many are willing to admit.  Who gives a shit.  

We're bringing Justice Sotomayor down here in Austin in October.  You come by at my invitation and tell her what a shitty stooge for the Koch Brothers I was.  

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sidis

sidis 9826

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Got it, chief.  High five.  This is me admitting perhaps my last comment on the post was a bit shitty.  You're probably more well-informed than most, but don't sit there and tell me what Reason Magazine/Reason Foundation is just another right-wing facist outlet for the Koch Brothers.  It was a fucking link, and then a sassy sentence by me.  People like David Koch can have nuance to them.  He was an asshole, all I did was mention there was more to him than many are willing to admit.  Who gives a shit.  

We're bringing Justice Sotomayor down here in Austin in October.  You come by at my invitation and tell her what a shitty stooge for the Koch Brothers I was.  

It was a worthless puff piece that is typical of what is thrown out there on the day that notable but polarizing figures pass away. 

If he was such a libertarian, I am sure he spent a lot of his fortune advancing libertarian political momentum in the republican party and not just a mechanism for oiling the machine that worked so hard to exacerbate his insanely astronomical and non-equitable wealth to the detriment of the country...being on the vanguard of seedy and dark money enterprises that we all abhor as being so intertwined with government/politics/influence and rent seeking behavior in contemporary America. To the point in fact that he was the reason the citizens united Supreme Court case had to be considered  

Oh wait, he personified it to the point of being a caricature. I don’t need reason’s puff piece to try and distract from that. 

Also, are you drunk? You keep boasting about this sotamayor event as if it lends any credibility and I’m not sure why you think I am under the impression you are a stooge for David Koch. I was just pointing out that lobbing a passive aggressive bomb insulting people and and then acting butthurt when people respond in kind and revising your intention as “just posting a link to inform you retarded rubes” is somewhat disingenuous. 

Edited by sidis
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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted

All valid thoughts on your part.  I am more disappointed than you are in his retroactive anointment by a foundation I have loyally served for 15 years.  

One thing we know is his influence and approaches won't fully be unpacked for several years.  He left behind a lot of "dead man's switches" on assets with directives that won't be fully realized until you and I are much, much older.  

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Damn my respect for Ron Paul just went down even more. You can’t blame the sons for the sins of the father at all IMO but you can sometimes somewhat for the other way around. Apparently Ron was either an extremely shitty father, was a complete fraud as a human being, or just got really unlucky by having a complete piece of shit son. I know I’d be disappointed if this guy was my son. 

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30214

Posted
Posted
Gonna post this here.  Most of you will predictably scoff at it.  I am not a fan of theirs.  Most of you don't know the ideology of David it seems:
https://reason.com/2019/08/23/rip-david-koch/?utm_medium=email
Doesn't make any excuses for him, it's just some information that most of you won't come across because you live in an echo chamber.  
 

Puff piece from source he owned. Which verified he funded anti gay GOP candidates even though he was a personal libertarian.

Echo chamber indeed


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