Texas 2020 general election

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

7 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

The problem here, and I can't be the only one, is that someone who used to consider the policy differences as a big driver of my voting behavior (I never got the angst over Obamacare, I cared about foreign policy and fiscal conservatism but baffled at abortion being something people give a fuck about) I absolutely, in no way shape or form trust or will trust the Republicans again. Even if I liked some of their policies, the men making those policies went so far down the rabbit hole of gutless shitbaggery, and their complete lack of morals and arguable wealthy/elite/white agenda has been so laid bare, I can't trust them again with anything. I don't care if they promised me a full proof way to balance the budget and lower our debt by 10 trillion in 2 years. I don't. Fucking. Trust. Them. 

And I can't be the only one, or even a tiny percentage. 

Yeah- that's the argument for permanent minority party status. The counter from Longhorn Matt and Behold and some others is ehhhh- that's not how it works they will be back. I think both points of view are completely plausible.  Once the Regan Democrats left they became Republicans, they didn't go back to being democrats in a lot of cases and it flipped the Congress and turned it red for the first time in 2 generations when Newt finished off the transformation. I think Trump can have the opposite effect. or maybe not.  Both things really could plausibly happen. 

Texas is smack dab in the middle of this, obviously, as we have changing demographics, huge net internal migration, immigration etc.  It's changed a lot since I moved here in 1990 and it's changing a lot more- obviously.  Will be really interesting to follow. 

[Bateshorn 9882]

9 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

If America is a center right country as you said then that list of shit isn't popular with 2/3 of the electorate.  If it's a center right country that loses you a landslide election in 2022 and probably in 2024 in a universe where the GOP doesn't nominate a moron (I know- hard to remember all the way back to 2012, but go with me on that). 

I think you are wrong and we are no longer the center right country that we were (at least compared to the past- maybe still compared to Europe) so if I was a liberal I'd certainly run that way instead of incremental changes, but...

Sorry- need to stop there- this isn't the thread for that.  

I meant we are a center right nation relative to the rest of the world. I also think White Americans view themselves as center right, but in reality, they are mush more liberal than they know/acknowledge, except on issues of race.  But higher taxes on the rich, addressing climate change, more health care (or even some public option), cleaning up the environment, making abortion safe, legal, and rare, and spending big on transportation are all popular.  I'm not going to bury this thread with stats, but some googling will show you quite a bit of survey backing on the issues.  The truth is, the GOP's policies are generally pretty unpopular when you ask people about them in a neutral environment.  It's only when tribalism comes into play that people over look the policy dissonance.

We also haven't had a Democrat president who enacted a progressive agenda since LBJ.  Clinton was, by any standard, fairly conservative, and I would argue Obama was dead middle, at best. In retrospect, if you include Jimmy Carter's fiscal conservatism, America has only had a non conservative president from 2008-2016 since Johnson announced he wouldn't run for reelection.  That's 50 fucking years. Strom Thurmond knew exactly where the wind was blowing when he switched parties in 1964.

Biden has the opportunity to change that dynamic by being a bold visionary leader and not the same feckless democrat we've all come to expect.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Bateshorn

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11667]

8 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

If America is a center right country as you said then that list of shit isn't popular with 2/3 of the electorate.  If it's a center right country that loses you a landslide election in 2022 and probably in 2024 in a universe where the GOP doesn't nominate a moron (I know- hard to remember all the way back to 2012, but go with me on that). 

I think you are wrong and we are no longer the center right country that we were (at least compared to the past- maybe still compared to Europe) so if I was a liberal I'd certainly run that way instead of incremental changes, but...

Sorry- need to stop there- this isn't the thread for that.  

it would be center right if they just (1) ditched the racism angle; (2) remembered they were supposed to be center right, instead of plutocratic nightmare.  the public consciousness has moved too far on acknowledging disparate treatment among whites and minorities in a million different areas, and the right's refusal to acknowledge that poisons their positions across the board.   and the massive wealth hording, murdering the middle class fiscal purity tests are just insane.

[Bateshorn 9882]

1 minute ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

it would be center right if they just (1) ditched the racism angle; (2) remembered they were supposed to be center right, instead of plutocratic nightmare.  the public consciousness has moved too far on acknowledging disparate treatment among whites and minorities in a million different areas, and the right's refusal to acknowledge that poisons their positions across the board.   and the massive wealth hording, murdering the middle class fiscal purity tests are just insane.

There's just no other way to explain how the GOP is actually pulling 40+ percent of the vote share, if you look at the abject incompetence and cruelty they've evinced over the last 4 years.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

40 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

It's why I argue Biden should abolish the filibuster and go hard if he takes back the Senate.  Establish your vision of governance and make it happen.  If Americans don't like it, they don't like it. But they might if you aren't fighting Mitch McConnell as a drag anchor on everything.

DING!  There’s no reason Biden shouldn’t do this but the excuses will be “but but we’ll lose the senate and the house!”  It’s horseshit.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11667]

1 minute ago, Bateshorn said:

There's just no other way to explain how the GOP is actually pulling 40+ percent of the vote share, if you look at the abject incompetence and cruelty they've evinced over the last 4 years.

that's true.  they are definitely getting their votes from those that enjoy terribleness right now.  i just think that the 40% they are getting now would be sprinkled left and right if they were barred from voting based on racial sort of stuff, and the other 60% would be sprinkled left and right if the right wasn't so appalling.  it would be a complete realignment.  

 

to pick one example of going from left to right, do you think that the educated class right now, that is something like 3-1 in favor of biden, really prefers leftist policies that much?  your average CPA or engineer or computer programmer?  I think a substantial number are just repulsed by the last 20 years of GOP lying and WT-ness.  

[Bateshorn 9882]

The truth about governance in this country is it doesn't work.  And that's really because of the Senate, which allows the party out of power to thwart the party in power, denying it the ability to act on it's electoral promises and creating the inertia that is rotting our country to the core and makes most people think governance doesn't work.  There is no state government that allows it's minority the level of power that we give the minority of the Senate. 

Our modern government is basically the vision of the 88th Congress from 1964. We are living in a Great Society shell that successive GOP administrations and Congresses have beaten on to make it more ineffectual, and democrats have failed to update and modernize.  It hasn't really been substantially and broadly updated except in a few areas since then.  No fucking shit everybody thinks government doesn't work:  We are driving around in a rusted out chevy impala that's had the original 409 swapped out for 2 litre 4 banger.

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

9 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

that's true.  they are definitely getting their votes from those that enjoy terribleness right now.  i just think that the 40% they are getting now would be sprinkled left and right if they were barred from voting based on racial sort of stuff, and the other 60% would be sprinkled left and right if the right wasn't so appalling.  it would be a complete realignment.  

 

to pick one example of going from left to right, do you think that the educated class right now, that is something like 3-1 in favor of biden, really prefers leftist policies that much?  your average CPA or engineer or computer programmer?  I think a substantial number are just repulsed by the last 20 years of GOP lying and WT-ness.  

Biggest realignment would come from culturally conservative minorities that vote Dem imo bc the GOP is the party of people still fighting against civil rights. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11667]

7 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

litre

not on my watch

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

So you’re saying we need big structural change? 

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

29 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I meant we are a center right nation relative to the rest of the world. I also think White Americans view themselves as center right, but in reality, they are mush more liberal than they know/acknowledge, except on issues of race.  But higher taxes on the rich, addressing climate change, more health care (or even some public option), cleaning up the environment, making abortion safe, legal, and rare, and spending big on transportation are all popular.  I'm not going to bury this thread with stats, but some googling will show you quite a bit of survey backing on the issues.  The truth is, the GOP's policies are generally pretty unpopular when you ask people about them in a neutral environment.  It's only when tribalism comes into play that people over look the policy dissonance.

We also haven't had a Democrat president who enacted a progressive agenda since LBJ.  Clinton was, by any standard, fairly conservative, and I would argue Obama was dead middle, at best. In retrospect, if you include Jimmy Carter's fiscal conservatism, America has only had a non conservative president from 2008-2016 since Johnson announced he wouldn't run for reelection.  That's 50 fucking years. Strom Thurmond knew exactly where the wind was blowing when he switched parties in 1964.

Biden has the opportunity to change that dynamic by being a bold visionary leader and not the same feckless democrat we've all come to expect.

I've got a lot of thoughts on this but not going to share here. I've been accused of threadjacks (probably fairly at times) by continuing down the rabbit hole of what I consider to be replying back to interesting discussions (which I think this is) but this has fuck all to do with 2020 Texas Elections. I'd welcome you cross posting this on the thread I started on Center Right? or starting your own thread on this. 

[Brisketexan 104465]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

Second. 

Thirded.  I will never trust them again.

When someone shows you how utterly shitty, craven, and cruel they are....believe them.

[Ghost of LL 15348]

3 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

Sorry, I was drinking with the wife, I try to put down the phone after a certain hour.

I just think that trying to finesse the GOP they way Obama tried in 2008-2010 is going to lead to compromises that make the legislation easily attacked, or completely ineffectual, or just doing nothing at all. McConnell is going to fight the Democrats tooth and nail the whole way, so you may be looking at 2 solid years of budget standoffs, automatically dead legislation in the Senate, etc.  The only thing the Democrats will be able to do is raise taxes because of reconciliation, which while popular, makes for some rough 2022 campaigning.  

Abolish the filibuster, voting  rights reform, end gerrymandering, fix the nation's finances, bring most of the troops home, fix Obamacare, pass an infrastructure bill, pass a big education bill, address climate change, enact judicial reform, bring in DC and Puerto Rico.  Then campaign in 2022 as a transformative presidency with more work to do. Go big or go home.  I think if Biden goes small, he's going to get his ass handed to him in 2022.  He might also if he goes big, but he'll have some pretty radical reforms for the party to run on 2024. Most the things in the democrat platform are popular with about 2/3 of the electorate.  I think where the democrats get roughed up is when they come off as weak and ineffectual.  It allows the GOP to keep rebrand itself as the power/winner party.

I love this man.  He speaks truth.

Run as a transformational president who gets shit done in 2022.  And run against Donald Trump, how played golf while Rome burned.  Because you absolutely know that Trump will allow himself to be used as a foil.  Because Trump won't retire into the background like every other former president.  He'll be out there yelling and holding rallies and getting ready for his 2024 campaign.

[Bookman 4610]

4 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

The problem here, and I can't be the only one, is that someone who used to consider the policy differences as a big driver of my voting behavior (I never got the angst over Obamacare, I cared about foreign policy and fiscal conservatism but baffled at abortion being something people give a fuck about) I absolutely, in no way shape or form trust or will trust the Republicans again. Even if I liked some of their policies, the men making those policies went so far down the rabbit hole of gutless shitbaggery, and their complete lack of morals and arguable wealthy/elite/white agenda has been so laid bare, I can't trust them again with anything. I don't care if they promised me a full proof way to balance the budget and lower our debt by 10 trillion in 2 years. I don't. Fucking. Trust. Them. 

And I can't be the only one, or even a tiny percentage. 

The way I see it, the Republicans are the party of corruption and ineptitude, and they have no ability to govern this country. Because of that, their policies are tainted.

For example, 10 years ago I was all in favor of having a tight border. Now, I think we should open it. They can't be any worse than the Trumpkins living here.

[Ghost of LL 15348]

29 minutes ago, Bookman said:

The way I see it, the Republicans are the party of corruption and ineptitude, and they have no ability to govern this country. Because of that, their policies are tainted.

For example, 10 years ago I was all in favor of having a tight border. Now, I think we should open it. They can't be any worse than the Trumpkins living here.

The Cubans in South Florida will set you straight on this.

[Bookman 4610]

Back when I did insurance defense I defended a Cuban truck driver. That guy was the biggest asshole I’ve ever met.

[Gil Bang 25865]

 

[atomheartbevo 89362]

 

[StassneyHorn 6534]

In Special Election news, Salon Shelley is going directly at Abbott. A masked Abbott and masked Drew Springer against freedom and liberty lovers like herself and Donald Trump