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Posted (edited)
  On 10/23/2023 at 7:21 PM, Hiphopopotamos said:

 

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george-costanza-was-that-wrong.gif

 

Story here:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Edited by Francisco 2.0
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Posted

He made $55000 a year.

He used his own card for the tickets.

It's not a huge stretch to believe he was reimbursed from the athletic department.  Or, maybe a booster.  At any rate, this is going to leave a mark.

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Posted (edited)
  On 10/23/2023 at 7:33 PM, locodos said:

I'm sure that the guy making 55k was just eating the cost of the tickets.  Lulz michigan you cheatin' bastidges

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Tickets between the 45-50, higher up in the stands with a clear view...and sometimes, tickets on both sides of the field (hell, last Saturday's game at Ohio State-Penn State he purchased tickets).

On the open market, how much would those tickets have cost between two top 5 teams?

 

  Quote

Sources confirmed to ESPN that Stalions purchased tickets on both sides of the stadium -- across from each bench -- for Ohio State's game with Penn State on Saturday. Michigan plays both teams in upcoming weeks. According to sources, the tickets purchased by Stalions were not used on Saturday. 

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Edited by Francisco 2.0
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Posted
  On 10/23/2023 at 7:36 PM, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

Tickets between the 45-50, higher up in the stands with a clear view...and sometimes, tickets on both sides of the field (hell, last Saturday's game at Ohio State-Penn State he purchased tickets).

On the open market, how much would those tickets have cost between two top 5 teams?

 

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Easily in the $1000s.

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Posted
  On 10/23/2023 at 7:36 PM, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

Tickets between the 45-50, higher up in the stands with a clear view...and sometimes, tickets on both sides of the field (hell, last Saturday's game at Ohio State-Penn State he purchased tickets).

On the open market, how much would those tickets have cost between two top 5 teams?

 

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Did he fly to some games or just drive there and back?  It starts to add up and 55k to live off of doesn't leave a lot of discretionary income.  Maybe they find out a booster was doing more than reimbursing...maybe some suplimental income...  oh hello intuitional control!

Posted
  On 10/23/2023 at 7:40 PM, locodos said:

Did he fly to some games or just drive there and back?  It starts to add up and 55k to live off of doesn't leave a lot of discretionary income.  Maybe they find out a booster was doing more than reimbursing...maybe some suplimental income...  oh hello intuitional control!

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I don't believe he attended any of the games.  From the article:

 

  Quote

Sources indicated that Stalions forwarded tickets to at least three other individuals, with the ticket transfer showing up through ticket data tracking. Those tickets were used to get in the game by individuals other than Stalions, including the one in the video the NCAA is expected to receive.

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But at the same time, you have to assume these people either did it for the love of Michigan football.....or were reimbursed for their travel expenses.

 

 

Posted
  On 10/23/2023 at 7:40 PM, locodos said:

Did he fly to some games or just drive there and back?  It starts to add up and 55k to live off of doesn't leave a lot of discretionary income.  Maybe they find out a booster was doing more than reimbursing...maybe some suplimental income...  oh hello intuitional control!

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It wasn’t just him. 


“Sources indicated that Stalions forwarded tickets to at least three other individuals, with the ticket transfer showing up through ticket data tracking. Those tickets were used to get in the game by individuals other than Stalions, including the one in the video the NCAA is expected to receive.”

Posted (edited)

So, in 2019 Harbaugh was 9-4.  2020 Harbaugh was 2-4.  Covid, so you can take that into consideration.  Here's the season by season record:

2015 10-3

2016 10-3

2017 8-5

2018 10-3

2019 9-4

2020 2-4

 

But beginning in 2021, Harbaugh was 12-2.  Last year was 13-1.  And this year 5-0.  Including beating OSU the past 2 seasons.

And the staffer has been buying tickets for (including this season) 3 seasons now.

Completely coincidental. 

 

Edited by Francisco 2.0
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Posted
  On 10/23/2023 at 8:12 PM, Francisco 2.0 said:

So, in 2019 Harbaugh was 9-4.  2020 Harbaugh was 2-4.  Covid, so you can take that into consideration.

 

But beginning in 2021, Harbaugh was 12-2.  Last year was 13-1.  And this year 5-0.  Including beating OSU the past 2 seasons.

And the staffer has been buying tickets for (including this season) 3 seasons now.

Completely coincidental. 

 

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What makes me laugh are the people who have reacted with "no big deal". Uh, no. This is on par with what the Astros were doing in many ways, and they continue to be villified for it years later. It also caused multiple people to lose their jobs and the loss of key assets (draft picks) to boot.

If Michigan is scaling spying to traveling to video multiple opponents for multiple weeks and then paying fucking codecrackers to solve for it and then using it during games, then that is nothing to wave away. That should be something that gets people fired, including Harbaugh, and has them vacating records, losing scholarships and playoff/bowl eligibility.

If some other school is caught doing it, they should have the same punishment. I know Texas doesn't do it since they don't even self-scout and haven't since the Royal era. 

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Posted
  On 10/23/2023 at 8:12 PM, Francisco 2.0 said:

So, in 2019 Harbaugh was 9-4.  2020 Harbaugh was 2-4.  Covid, so you can take that into consideration.  Here's the season by season record:

2015 10-3

2016 10-3

2017 8-5

2018 10-3

2019 9-4

2020 2-4

 

But beginning in 2021, Harbaugh was 12-2.  Last year was 13-1.  And this year 5-0.  Including beating OSU the past 2 seasons.

And the staffer has been buying tickets for (including this season) 3 seasons now.

Completely coincidental. 

 

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@immamac was just telling people that Sark and Co. need to be more like the Michigan staff. Season 7 Oops GIF by Workaholics

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Posted
  On 10/23/2023 at 8:34 PM, immamac said:

8-5 worst season out of the last 8 and 2CFP appearances and 3 more NY6? Yep sign me the fuck up for that. 

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I actually like Michigan, so it pained me to type that but you are very critical of Sark and it's probably not warranted all the time. I needed to point out that this example here is why Texas has trouble getting over that fucking hump, we don't cheat. Michigan usually doesn't cheat, so they apparently are terrible at it. I don't want to kick you while you are down though. Carry on. 

Posted (edited)
  On 10/23/2023 at 8:20 PM, closetojumping said:

What makes me laugh are the people who have reacted with "no big deal". Uh, no. This is on par with what the Astros were doing in many ways, and they continue to be villified for it years later. It also caused multiple people to lose their jobs and the loss of key assets (draft picks) to boot.

If Michigan is scaling spying to traveling to video multiple opponents for multiple weeks and then paying fucking codecrackers to solve for it and then using it during games, then that is nothing to wave away. That should be something that gets people fired, including Harbaugh, and has them vacating records, losing scholarships and playoff/bowl eligibility.

If some other school is caught doing it, they should have the same punishment. I know Texas doesn't do it since they don't even self-scout and haven't since the Royal era. 

Expand  

 

For people not understanding why is such a big deal, let me break it down a bit more.

This is how I would do it from a brute-force approach. Take a full game-long recording of both sidelines and then get the all 22 recording on that game. Put the video of one team sideline on one screen and the all 22 on the other. Start with one sideline video.  For every D or O alignment look at the placards or signs sent in and then match it to the formation and play/route tree. By the end of the game you should be able to figure out any play that has been called 3 or 4 times. Also, look for how/when audibles come in and if they are decoy calls that were pre-planned shifts as a disguise on both O and D. This should allow you full team set of signals. Then do the same thing for the other team.

Once you have "decoded" the signs then watch the next set of film or even just any game that shows playcalls and the sidelines against that team to confirm their signs and you have successfully broken their calls. When it comes to gameday, you set whoever is the sign steal guy with a view of the opposing signal caller and then decipher calls in real-time. On D you set up in a base and then look to the sideline to adjust. On O you can call then audible from the sideline.

All it really would take is once you break the code to set up a call sheet of what calls are blitzes and where they are coming from and be set to audible. On D it is even easier just by being able to prepare for run vs pass, especially on short yardage and down-specific criteria. Talk about an insane advantage.. You know if it is a run or pass most plays. Know when a trick play is called (wouldn't be in the dataset of play calls and so its an instant tipoff). Know when they are going to blitz and to which side.. a play caller like Sark would destroy a team with that type of knowledge.

This is a brute force approach that once you have the video could be done by a group of GAs in a few days or so. Hard part would be making sure you have the camera in the right spot all game and the it is purely a mechanism of just charting calls, formations, and plays. Should be easy to break with little heavy effort.

 


 

Edited by Laxtonto
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Posted
  On 10/23/2023 at 8:43 PM, Laxtonto said:

 

For people not understanding why is such a big deal, let me break it down a bit more.

This is how I would do it from a brute-force approach. Take a full game-long recording of both sidelines and then get the all 22 recording on that game. Put the video of one team sideline on one screen and the all 22 on the other. Start with one sideline video.  For every D or O alignment look at the placards or signs sent in and then match it to the formation and play/route tree. By the end of the game you should be able to figure out any play that has been called 3 or 4 times. Also, look for how/when audibles come in and if they are decoy calls that were pre-planned shifts as a disguise on both O and D. This should allow you full team set of signals. Then do the same thing for the other team.

Once you have "decoded" the signs then watch the next set of film or even just any game that shows playcalls and the sidelines against that team to confirm their signs and you have successfully broken their calls. When it comes to gameday, you set whoever is the sign steal guy with a view of the opposing signal caller and then decipher calls in real-time. On D you set up in a base and then look to the sideline to adjust. On O you can call then audible from the sideline.

All it really would take is once you break the code to set up a call sheet of what calls are blitzes and where they are coming from and be set to audible. On D it is even easier just by being able to prepare for run vs pass, especially on short yardage and down-specific criteria. Talk about an insane advantage.. You know if it is a run or pass most plays. Know when a trick play is called (wouldn't be in the dataset of play calls and so its an instant tipoff). Know when they are going to blitz and to which side.. a play caller like Sark would destroy a team with that type of knowledge.

This is a brute force approach that once you have the video could be done by a group of GAs in a few days or so. Hard part would be making sure you have the camera in the right spot all game and the it is purely a mechanism of just charting calls, formations, and plays. Should be easy to break with little heavy effort.

 


 

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Also been mentioned that a lot of the hurry up tempo teams that then sometimes wait and look back to the sideline for new calls would benefit greatly from being able to get not just a read of the defensive alignment, but also a quick look at defensive signals before possibly making adjustments or just running called play.

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Posted
  On 10/23/2023 at 7:59 PM, Evil Bill Obrien said:

Would think he would at least use a fake name to buy all these tickets just so it isn't so easy to track everything down...

Season 5 Nbc GIF by The Office

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Seriously how fucking stupid is this guy? 

Using his own credit card and buying the tickets in his own name? 

Just get some dang Visa gift cards to do the purchase at least and have the receipt sent to a burner email account. 

There's no way Harbaugh didn't know about this and he deserves to get burned. Wow.

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Posted
  On 10/23/2023 at 8:57 PM, MonkeyDoughnut said:

tempo teams that then sometimes wait and look back to the sideline for new calls would benefit greatly from being able to get not just a read of the defensive alignment, but also a quick look at defensive signals before possibly making adjustments or just running called play.

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This is probably true for both O and D. Go tempo and do the sideline look to pick the route tree or heaven forbid setup a perfectly timed running play. On D set in base and then know to crash the line if it is an interior run or prepare for something sideline to sideline. Knowing the signals even 15 seconds before the snap would have a major impact on the game.

Posted
  On 10/23/2023 at 9:06 PM, Wilcox Cummingtonite said:

Harbaugh thinks he can get away with pretty much anything. He probably can and will.

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This may not be that. People that keep referring to the old NCAA slap on the wrist shit aren't paying attention here. 

1) This is "integrity of the game" shit. It's not a wild ass bagman story where assholes can chuckle and say "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'!" This is Pete Rose betting on MLB games or the Astros stealing signs with a paid codecracker and cameras. It's ruining the actual competitiveness of the sport.

2) Other major powers in the Big 10, if not spanning the landscape, are fucking pissed off about this. Ohio State is very interested in seeing this investigated thoroughly and, if evidence creates certainty about the past few years, they're going to want blood. These things matter with a coward, and the NCAA is a coward as an organization.

3) There is actionable evidence, allegedly. If the evidence exists and the NCAA has the support of member institutions, they're not going to need to sit around on this for years and worry over testimony and depositions.

4) Michigan itself is going to face the prospect of needing to do something to save face if this keeps getting worse. They can't waive it off and have quirky Coach Harbaugh skipping a few shitty games while everyone laughs. 

5) Harbaugh was defiant with regard to the last NCAA investigation and made fools of them. This is a vindictive org. If they have a chance to take a kill shot here, they're going to want to do it. 

The only difference here between some of the other cheating scandals and this one is the lack of a commissioner with sweeping powers at his discretion. Maybe that is enough for the NCAA to be the eunuch folks expect. If the evidence is really there, it should be interesting to see how much the threat of a lawsuit from Michigan causes restraint. 

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Posted

This is closer to the potential domino effect that I expect this could lead to. If he wasn't reimbursed by the school, then who did and were they Michigan boosters? This could be extremely toxic for anyone remotely close to it.

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Posted
  On 10/23/2023 at 9:22 PM, closetojumping said:

This may not be that. People that keep referring to the old NCAA slap on the wrist shit aren't paying attention here. 

1) This is "integrity of the game" shit. It's not a wild ass bagman story where assholes can chuckle and say "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'!" This is Pete Rose betting on MLB games or the Astros stealing signs with a paid codecracker and cameras. It's ruining the actual competitiveness of the sport.

2) Other major powers in the Big 10, if not spanning the landscape, are fucking pissed off about this. Ohio State is very interested in seeing this investigated thoroughly and, if evidence creates certainty about the past few years, they're going to want blood. These things matter with a coward, and the NCAA is a coward as an organization.

3) There is actionable evidence, allegedly. If the evidence exists and the NCAA has the support of member institutions, they're not going to need to sit around on this for years and worry over testimony and depositions.

4) Michigan itself is going to face the prospect of needing to do something to save face if this keeps getting worse. They can't waive it off and have quirky Coach Harbaugh skipping a few shitty games while everyone laughs. 

5) Harbaugh was defiant with regard to the last NCAA investigation and made fools of them. This is a vindictive org. If they have a chance to take a kill shot here, they're going to want to do it. 

The only difference here between some of the other cheating scandals and this one is the lack of a commissioner with sweeping powers at his discretion. Maybe that is enough for the NCAA to be the eunuch folks expect. If the evidence is really there, it should be interesting to see how much the threat of a lawsuit from Michigan causes restraint. 

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I tend to agree with your points. This isn’t just stealing them during a game.  This is full blown Houston astros sign stealing-esque 

Posted

Lots of people willing to dig on Meatchicken because of dickhead Harbaugh

Lots of crazy stats in this thread about their performance in this timeframe.. need to look at Dabo'/Venables as well..

 

 

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Posted (edited)

The TCU game makes more sense now, for two reasons.

The Stallion may not have contemplated getting tix for a TCU game, because reasons. And TCU ran at fast tempo last year, so even if they had the signs, the pace they played at could offset that.  Playing either ultra fast or huddling can negate sign stealing.

 

Also, this theory from some rando makes sense:

 

Screenshot2023-10-23at5_01_36PM.thumb.png.1f28d12672f40b452a30021113dce549.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Francisco 2.0
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Posted
  On 10/23/2023 at 9:22 PM, closetojumping said:

3) There is actionable evidence, allegedly. If the evidence exists and the NCAA has the support of member institutions, they're not going to need to sit around on this for years and worry over testimony and depositions.

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Hopefully there are some federal indictments and FBI wire taps out there, the NCAA can really lay down the hammer with such evidence. 

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