Jim Harbaugh NO LONGER coaches at Michigan

[BabaYaga 15,212]

As far as I know in the limited digging I've done, we have a MI staffer/coach videoing 30+ games at 11 different stadiums.  Even used his own credit card and name for each game (which I'm sure was reimbursed).  Specifically videoing the sidelines exclusively and passing the tape on for review on calls made in games.  The coaches go back and review the sideline signals relative to the calls made in the games as they prep for upcoming teams.  This is video that game film doesn't focus on and games away from their home stadium with press boxes to better hide filming.

What else did I miss?

 

[Wilcox Cummingtonite 2,869]

1 minute ago, Juicy said:

Cheating still does not equal rape. 

-Barry Switzer

[Deej 76,566]

2 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Cheating still does not equal rape. I am sorry that you think rape is in the same reality of anything that has to do with playing sports. 

I'm just saying you would likely defend your school against any allegation. The fact that you have no issue with your team cheating tells me all I need to know.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,523]

7 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Comparing stealing signs to rape is pretty wild. Not sure how many people are out there living with crippling anxiety and depression over having their signs stolen.

He wasn't comparing the act, he was comparing the myopic rationalization from a fanbase that quite frankly, should know better. It's example number 3,642 of how this thread is flying way over your head.

Look my man, you've provided some decent content over the years here, but you are dead ass wrong on this one. If Ohio State got caught doing the same thing over the (very, very long) recent period where they dominated Michigan, you would be screaming about it at the top of your lungs. 

 

[Radical Larry 28,528]

Pat McAfee is on this pretty big today. Looking at pictures of this all.

Well that’s because McAfee can’t read.

[Pam Cummings 9,581]

1 minute ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

He wasn't comparing the act, he was comparing the myopic rationalization from a fanbase that quite frankly, should know better. It's example number 3,642 of how this thread is flying way over your head.

Look my man, you've provided some decent content over the years here, but you are dead ass wrong on this one. If Ohio State got caught doing the same thing over the (very, very long) recent period where they dominated Michigan, you would be screaming about it at the top of your lungs. 

 

Ohhhh man. If this was OSU getting caught doing this you could nickname @Juicy's horse "Snoop Dogg".

[Parliament 14,134]

Stalions watching the same signs our offense is, then relaying it to his DC.

 

 

[gatormarc 904]

1 hour ago, Juicy said:

At this point in the thread, I would have thought you would have your gag reflex under control.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

You posted a lazy, shitty take and then followed it with recycled drivel. 

Ah yes, the ol' "I don't agree with your opinion, so I'll just say it's lazy" path. Great.

Better tell this guy he's dumber than a box of rocks or he has a weak/uninformed take:

"But another coach with Big Ten and SEC experience asked what the big deal was in practical terms. Between the TV broadcast, coaches' tape and what fans film with their phones and post online, the coach said there's more than enough footage that's accessible without ever leaving the office. "Anything that happens in the public eye hasn't gone too far," the coach said. "To be honest, I can watch TV copy [of] two to three games and get everything I need."

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38727764/what-college-football-coaches-saying-sign-stealing

 

If it's in public, I see it as no different than scouting a team's formation/personnel. Change the signals or realize someone is going to steal them. It's only happened for decades. 

[Juicy 723]

Michigan should learn from this..... if you are going to develop a vast conspiracy that you should do a better job of the conspiracy portion. 

[4th&Five 41,461]

My hope is that Harbs really had no idea it was going on and just thinks he became a much better coach over night.

[Juicy 723]

5 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

My hope is that Harbs really had no idea it was going on and just thinks he became a much better coach over night.

I feel like that could be a possibility. 

I also feel like he is fucking insane enough that his strategy to "show them" is going to be something like refusing to scout any team in advance and just saying "we line up and beat em" and it is going to go horribly wrong. 

[Not a cat 5,619]

13 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Stalions watching the same signs our offense is, then relaying it to his DC.

 

 

The players around him are helping signal it in. I'm amazed there hasn't been some whispers since your average college age kid can't help but talk about shit.

Be interesting to know what that tech gunslinger sign meant and what OSU was running.  You'd have to reverse engineer that the same way Stalion did.  See what each Michigan signal meant and was it always a great counter to what offense did 

[alincoln 2,364]

Michigan is now the Astros of college football.  Like the Astros, Michigan will ultimately have to fire the staff to begin the process of distancing the program from the institutional cheating.  Unlike the Astros, the players who enabled Michigan to compete at a high level in the Big 10 through the advantages provided by cheating will also move on.  The relatively immediate staff and player turnover will enable Michigan to turn the page from its disgraceful "Cheating Era" far quicker than the Astros.  That said, the irony of the ultimate Michigan man destroying once and for all the self righteous myth of Michigan's moral superiority over its competition is high comedy.  Michigan is now just another pig in the shit together with the likes of Death Penalty SMU, Pedo State and Rapelor. Going forward, this cheating scandal will define Harbaugh's Michigan. 

[Laxtonto 11,932]

9 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Stalions watching the same signs our offense is, then relaying it to his DC.

 

 

WOW.... the O looks over to audible, then right as they call the play in, Stalions signals "1 or up" and the entire sideline behind him starts jumping up and down waving that in to the D...  Yes, the play was still a passing TD from the 4, but how often did they know on a down that could be either a run or pass that it was going to be a pass?

No need to worry about run fits or play action if you know it going to be a pass. No need for the pashrush to respect the fake and go straight to the QB on every known passing play.

This actually makes me curious on how often on 2nd and 3rd and 2-5 yards did the DL get a sack by not having to respect the run fake... Also now makes you question the total sack numbers out of Michigan...

[closetojumping 62,240]

6 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Ah yes, the ol' "I don't agree with your opinion, so I'll just say it's lazy" path. Great.

Better tell this guy he's dumber than a box of rocks or he has a weak/uninformed take:

"But another coach with Big Ten and SEC experience asked what the big deal was in practical terms. Between the TV broadcast, coaches' tape and what fans film with their phones and post online, the coach said there's more than enough footage that's accessible without ever leaving the office. "Anything that happens in the public eye hasn't gone too far," the coach said. "To be honest, I can watch TV copy [of] two to three games and get everything I need."

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38727764/what-college-football-coaches-saying-sign-stealing

 

If it's in public, I see it as no different than scouting a team's formation/personnel. Change the signals or realize someone is going to steal them. It's only happened for decades. 

You showed up on the thread, equivocated and poo poo'ed without even a vague comprehension of the facts, and I called you on it for being a spineless dumbass. Now you're doubling down and referencing one anonymous coach who doesn't seem to understand what's happening either. 

If this were no big deal, Michigan wouldn't have been doing this kind of extensive work in the first place. They wouldn't have immediately suspended one of the people involved once the evidence, or part of it, was shown to them. 11 schools in the conference wouldn't be collaborating with one another and sharing notes on their own signals and gameplans from prior periods to better inform the NCAA and their own conference. Their own conference wouldn't be warning future opponents over safety concerns. The fucking program wouldn't be going 23-11 against the spread. That's sustained, statistically anomalous performance against a machine that shreds normal variance noise on the regular. 

If you are too stupid to follow along and fathom what's happening, just do yourself and the rest of us a favor by sparing us your thread shitting nonsense. When you wake up one day and find yourself aligned with Juicy and Helobious on an issue and against all others, it should be a clue to you that you are the imbecile and the other guys are simply trying to help you get your shit together.

[Da Fino 2,740]

45 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Lulz. Calm down there big guy.
 

 

That tweet isn't even relevant. 

[alincoln 2,364]

28 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Stalions watching the same signs our offense is, then relaying it to his DC.

 

The "low level staffer" (per Michigan) has the authority to make defensive audibles during the first quarter of Michigan-tOSU. Completely normal practice.  

[Texasrocks 2,124]

I understand what Michigan is accused of doing. I'm also absolutely positive I don't give a shit, regardless of what the rule is.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

You showed up on the thread, equivocated and poo poo'ed without even a vague comprehension of the facts, and I called you on it for being a spineless dumbass. Now you're doubling down and referencing one anonymous coach who doesn't seem to understand what's happening either. 

If this were no big deal, Michigan wouldn't have been doing this kind of extensive work in the first place. They wouldn't have immediately suspended one of the people involved once the evidence, or part of it, was shown to them. 11 schools in the conference wouldn't be collaborating with one another and sharing notes on their own signals and gameplans from prior periods to better inform the NCAA and their own conference. Their own conference wouldn't be warning future opponents over safety concerns. The fucking program wouldn't be going 23-11 against the spread. That's sustained, statistically anomalous performance against a machine that shreds normal variance noise on the regular. 

If you are too stupid to follow along and fathom what's happening, just do yourself and the rest of us a favor by sparing us your thread shitting nonsense. When you wake up one day and find yourself aligned with Juicy and Helobious on an issue and against all others, it should be a clue to you that you are the imbecile and the other guys are simply trying to help you get your shit together.

No, I showed up on a thread and had a different opinion than you. Instead of saying "Hey, here's why it's a big deal..." or "Hey, here's why the take is wrong..." you launched immediately into trying to shit on me. In the past three posts you've called me "dumber than a box of rocks," said the take was "lazy, shitty," called me a "spineless dumbass" called me "too stupid to follow along" and an "imbecile."  Impressive. Can't say I've ever gotten that worked up over a message board, but whatever floats your boat.

I understand the facts. I still don't think it's a big deal given that it was all in public. Sorry that offends you. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,145]

2 minutes ago, Texasrocks said:

I understand what Michigan is accused of doing. I'm also absolutely positive I don't give a shit, regardless of what the rule is.

Whatever team ends up at #5 in final bowl committee ranking this year is likely going to give a shit. Alabama players from last season probably give a shit.. but Bama so...

[JFKFC 4,878]

1 minute ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Whatever team ends up at #5 in final bowl committee ranking this year is likely going to give a shit.

If MM plays well, it could be us.

[BurntOrange&White 39,655]

 

[ClubWhatever 12,087]

6 minutes ago, Texasrocks said:

I understand what Michigan is accused of doing. I'm also absolutely positive I don't give a shit, regardless of what the rule is.

Cheating fucks, especially smug asshole cheating fucks, don't bother you?  

[Steamboat1874 4,032]

I have always thought that if you suspect someone is stealing your signs.......fucking change them, every series if need be.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

Cheating fucks, especially smug asshole cheating fucks, don't bother you?  

That's where I'm hung up a little. If it's against the rules, it's against the rules. Got to punish that.

I just don't think it should be against the rules given how easily available it is to see signs. 

[Pam Cummings 9,581]

15 minutes ago, Texasrocks said:

I understand what Michigan is accused of doing. I'm also absolutely positive I don't give a shit, regardless of what the rule is.

When you look at their record(and record against the spread) for before they started doing is vs after they started doing it, and take into account that they didnt bother to do it with TCU last year because they didnt think of them as a potential playoff opponent, this most certainly altered the outcome of some of these games. It's a huge deal.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Pam Cummings

[Pam Cummings 9,581]

4 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

That's where I'm hung up a little. If it's against the rules, it's against the rules. Got to punish that.

I just don't think it should be against the rules given how easily available it is to see signs. 

It's clear as day that it was beneficial to these fuckers. The record before and after speaks for itself.

[Guest]

Just now, Pam Cummings said:

When you look at their record(and record against the spread) for before they started doing is vs after they started doing it, and take into account that they didnt bother to do it with TCU last year because they didnt think of them as a potential playoff opponent, this most certainly altered the outcome of some of these games. It's a huge deal.

You don't think there are too many variables to definitively say that this scheme is what put them over the top? I mean, until this broke, I don't recall anyone suggesting that Michigan was somehow cheating because they were good against the spread.

Last year Michigan had the same record against the spread as Texas:

[Sbbruin 21,734]

12 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

 

Wow that looks bad.

[BurntOrange&White 39,655]

How are some of you dumb motherfuckers not comprehending the difference between deciphering signs within a game vs a complete scheme including purchasing tickets to over 30 games, recording said signs at games with camera phone, and creating a whole scouting product because of that?

[Parliament 14,134]

15 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

 

We changed our signs before the game, so this had no impact.  No excuse though .

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

How are some of you dumb motherfuckers not comprehending the difference between deciphering signs within a game vs a complete scheme including purchasing tickets to over 30 games, recording said signs at games with camera phone, and creating a whole scouting product because of that?

Surly makes you dumb.

[Sleep off ugly 279]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

How are some of you dumb motherfuckers not comprehending the difference between deciphering signs within a game vs a complete scheme including purchasing tickets to over 30 games, recording said signs at games with camera phone, and creating a whole scouting product because of that?

Thanks for saving me time. I was about to write a polemic saying the same damn thing.

[CashMcCoy 3,199]

2 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

When you look at their record(and record against the spread) for before they started doing is vs after they started doing it, and take into account that they didnt bother to do it with TCU last year because they didnt think of them as a potential playoff opponent, this most certainly altered the outcome of some of these games. It's a huge deal.

Pretty sure the Thamel report or another journalist said the thought is that they have scouted potential CFP opponents at some point in the past three seasons, there just haven’t been any sources besides other Big Ten schools to come forward so far. It was clear that TCU was a major threat to be in the playoff by mid-November. I think one of the best parts of all this would be if it comes out they used tickets to a TCU game and still gave up 51.

[Tex Long 4,348]

4 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

... Last year Michigan had the same record against the spread as Texas:
 

And both lost to TCU. Hmmmm...

[Guest]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

How are some of you dumb motherfuckers not comprehending the difference between deciphering signs within a game vs a complete scheme including purchasing tickets to over 30 games, recording said signs at games with camera phone, and creating a whole scouting product because of that?

My take is that I don't see how it's any different than scouting an opponent's formation or watching film of their tendencies. 

Now if they were sneaking into a closed practice or bugging offices, then I have a problem with that.

But a public game with 100,000 people, millions watching, and cameras everywhere? If that's against the rules, then punish it. But it doesn't keep me up at night as a scandal. 

[BurntOrange&White 39,655]

Just now, FirstTimeCaller said:

My take is that I don't see how it's any different than scouting an opponent's formation or watching film of their tendencies. 

Now if they were sneaking into a closed practice or bugging offices, then I have a problem with that.

But a public game with 100,000 people, millions watching, and cameras everywhere? If that's against the rules, then punish it. But it doesn't keep me up at night as a scandal. 

Then you're one blind dumb motherfucker.

Edited October 24, 2023 by BurntOrange&White

[Laxtonto 11,932]

Just now, Sbbruin said:

Wow that looks bad.

I didn’t even catch it was the first drive of the game….

 

And people say, just change the signs… we are talking about massive playbooks that generally take an offseason plus a camp to get a FR up to game speed and we now should complicate the issue by every week changing how we call or name stuff? That is a bit nuts if only half of the matchup has to do so. It’s the time allocation to redo this every week is the issue.

 

I do think we will see some serious move by at least the current slate of Michigan opponents to have a wrist band set of calls like Sam used for your team “quarterback” on O and D, but rotate that list every quarter or half. It would still cause some hiccups as it could only be used as an audible sheet or set of plays all based on the primary formation, but it is better than the current setup.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,145]

2 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

My take is that I don't see how it's any different than scouting an opponent's formation or watching film of their tendencies. 

Now if they were sneaking into a closed practice or bugging offices, then I have a problem with that.

But a public game with 100,000 people, millions watching, and cameras everywhere? If that's against the rules, then punish it. But it doesn't keep me up at night as a scandal. 

Difference:

    Before - They run right 26% of the time from this formation.

    After - They are running left outside tackle this play

[4th&Five 41,461]

2 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

My take is that I don't see how it's any different than scouting an opponent's formation or watching film of their tendencies. 

Now if they were sneaking into a closed practice or bugging offices, then I have a problem with that.

But a public game with 100,000 people, millions watching, and cameras everywhere? If that's against the rules, then punish it. But it doesn't keep me up at night as a scandal. 

are you sure you're a sports fan?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Then you're one blind dumb motherfucker.

[closetojumping 62,240]

25 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

No, I showed up on a thread and had a different opinion than you. Instead of saying "Hey, here's why it's a big deal..." or "Hey, here's why the take is wrong..." you launched immediately into trying to shit on me. In the past three posts you've called me "dumber than a box of rocks," said the take was "lazy, shitty," called me a "spineless dumbass" called me "too stupid to follow along" and an "imbecile."  Impressive. Can't say I've ever gotten that worked up over a message board, but whatever floats your boat.

I understand the facts. I still don't think it's a big deal given that it was all in public. Sorry that offends you. 

I offered in the first response to you a choice - you are either a dumbass or you haven't followed along and should read the thread. That was helpful instruction if you were just ignorant. The problem was revealed in your latter posts, however. It wasn't really ignorance, just dickless stupidity. It doesn't offend me at all, but I do enjoy ripping on it. 

I any event, there's a simple solution here and it will end my part of this on this thread. 

[Parliament 14,134]

3 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

 

 

I do think we will see some serious move by at least the current slate of Michigan opponents to have a wrist band set of calls like Sam used for your team “quarterback” on O and D, but rotate that list every quarter or half. It would still cause some hiccups as it could only be used as an audible sheet or set of plays all based on the primary formation, but it is better than the current setup.

And lotsa huddling.

[Pam Cummings 9,581]

13 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

You don't think there are too many variables to definitively say that this scheme is what put them over the top? I mean, until this broke, I don't recall anyone suggesting that Michigan was somehow cheating because they were good against the spread.

Last year Michigan had the same record against the spread as Texas:

Wtf would that have to do with anything? Seriously, are you this dense?

[Laxtonto 11,932]

4 minutes ago, Parliament said:

And lotsa huddling.

You could call the formation and personnel package from the sidelines to get the players set and then the qb call the play at the line, but it does impact the ability of the outside WRs to get the play call…

So in essence it would really impact the spread teams, which would also be interesting to track…

 

There just isn’t a ton of great solutions without using tech in the helmet, and that might be a bridge too far for a portion of the CFB teams

Edited October 24, 2023 by Laxtonto

[bad_teammate 13,132]

11 minutes ago, Parliament said:

We changed our signs before the game, so this had no impact.  No excuse though.

Having to change your signs potentially does have a major impact. The game is highly choreographed and involves a ton of people. Changes of any kind are a big deal, and that's the entire purpose behind the rules against stealing signs.

If my guys get to get used to the same calls and signs so often it's instinct and your guys have to take more time to think about it and coordinate because you're changing them due to my illegal sign-stealing, that is an advantage for me. A competitive advantage. Football is a game of fractions of a second and a game of inches.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

There just isn’t a ton of great solutions without using tech in the helmet, and that might be a bridge too far for a portion of the CFB teams

I mean, this is going to end up being the solution and I'd guess as soon as next year. Going to miss the three backup QBs in different color mesh jerseys doing crazy signs.

[alincoln 2,364]

7 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

There just isn’t a ton of great solutions without using tech in the helmet, and that might be a bridge too far for a portion of the CFB teams

But not a bridge too far for the the big conferences.

[Laxtonto 11,932]

7 minutes ago, alincoln said:

But not a bridge too far for the the big conferences.

It’s not the big conferences that are the problem. Having 6 to 8 wired helmets (maybe more depending on subs and packages etc) is going to be expensive ask for some of the non-power schools. It will definitely not be accepted in FCS or below….

[Juicy 723]