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Posted
  On 11/9/2023 at 6:47 PM, Hornlover said:

In the end, all the legal posturing and bullshit about whether or not Harbaugh knew or whether Day turned them in, or who else was also stealing signs are all smoke designed to obfuscate the issue. All that matters is that:

1. There is ample evidence that Michigan Football broke the rules
2. Jim Harbaugh is the head coach, and he is ultimately responsible for what goes on in his organization

So all of the other shit about what anybody else was doing and whether or not Harbaugh knew doesn't matter. He's the responsible party.

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Mr BS has spoken. : r/cfbmemes

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Posted
  On 11/9/2023 at 7:50 PM, Wally Fairway said:

So would the Eagles/Giants/Redskins fans 

I am still hoping that Jimmah stay at UM - because if you put the recency bias/cheating years behind you his record is:
He can beat the bad teams but struggled against good teams, now the struggle is gone. What do you think changed?

vs. Ohio St - 2-6
vs MSU  - 5-4 (and except for 2 years we have sucked since 2016)
vs Penn St - 6-2
vs Notre Dame - 1-1
bowl games - 1-6

Excluding the last 2 years of their cheating 
OSU 0-6
MSU 3-4
PSU 4-2
bowl games - 1-4 ( I guess it is harder to chaat in bowl games)

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Dude took a QB who wanted to be a political activist more than he wanted to make millions being a QB to the Super Bowl…

 

He’d kill it at Dallas.

Posted
  On 11/9/2023 at 10:24 PM, Helobious said:

Harbaugh can very easily argue he was still a good coach before stallions came along. Stallions took him to the next level.

IMG_3839.jpeg.5758b9f9e665daae5b2b1c99d76c4732.jpeg

 

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Given how awful that conference has been, I don't know if his record before the cheating was "good." He lost most of the games that mattered. 

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Posted

Not that I have any idea how this works, but I’m surprised that some enterprising lawyer hasn’t filed a class action suit against UM on behalf of every fan who has purchased a ticket in the last 3 years. Home or away. UM fan or not. When you buy a ticket for a game, you expect a fair contest on the field and not a fixed game.

And while I’m uncertain who would win, a $200-300m lawsuit would get UM’s attention. It also could start to create a UM vs Harbaugh scenario because UM’s best legal defense could be that they also did not know about the cheating and therefore they’re not the party to be sued.

and the lawsuit amount could be even higher since some fans have bought tickets on the secondary market. 

 

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Posted (edited)

This would be a Big 10 punishment, not NCAA. 3 game suspension under the rule they're using while on the surface to us seems lame it is actually the most severe punishment ever. Usually it's just fines and such. NCAA could still come in and hand punishment down as well once they conclude. 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
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Posted
  On 11/10/2023 at 2:34 PM, WBT said:

How is Michigan only favored by 4.5 this week?

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Because UM hasn’t played anyone yet, their run game has appeared less dominant than it was last year, psu is #1 in run defense at like 1.8 yds/play, and also #1 in sacks. Every other team has sold out to stop the run against UM but not had the talent to stop the pass while doing that. PSU might be able to. They probably can for a half, but if their offense is as bad as it was against OSU, the D wears down in the 2nd half and UM runs away. 

Had PSU not gotten called for D holding on a sack fumble return for a TD that instead gave OSU a 1st down at like the 15 yard line where they scored a couple of plays later, PSU probably wins that game, is ranked top 3, and favored by 4.5. Shoulda, coulda, woulda. 

Most likely scenario is something like UM up 10-6 at halftime and then winning like 27-13. 

Posted
  On 11/10/2023 at 3:26 PM, BurntOrange&White said:

This would be a Big 10 punishment, not NCAA. 3 game suspension under the rule they're using while on the surface to us seems lame it is actually the most severe punishment ever. Usually it's just fines and such. NCAA could still come in and hand punishment down as well once they conclude. 

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Yeah..... the ncaa will bring the hammer down. Just ask Bill self. 

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Posted (edited)

I get that some feel that a suspension today is unfair with a big game tomorrow but maybe Harbaugh shouldn't have cheated in the first place. When guilty you don't get to set the type and date of your punishment.  Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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Posted

Sources allege Big Ten referees were seen with Big 12 ref Kevin Mar. Michigan will be watching the officiating closely as they cannot blame the absence of their sign stealing operation when their season goes off the rails. 

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Posted

There is a lot of talk from apologists who are saying that no punishments should be handed down until all of the evidence is known. The evidence will never be known unless Harbaugh, Minter and Stalions agree to cooperate.  The NCAA and the Big Ten have no method to compel them to talk, and the 3 have no reason to talk to those organizations.

And for people that want to laugh this off, if the sign stealing wasn't a big deal and didn't impact the play on the field, then why did Michigan do it?

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Posted (edited)
  On 11/10/2023 at 5:36 PM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

There is a lot of talk from apologists who are saying that no punishments should be handed down until all of the evidence is known. The evidence will never be known unless Harbaugh, Minter and Stalions agree to cooperate.  The NCAA and the Big Ten have no method to compel them to talk, and the 3 have no reason to talk to those organizations.

And for people that want to laugh this off, if the sign stealing wasn't a big deal and didn't impact the play on the field, then why did Michigan do it?

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Yep. Certain people think this is a murder trial or something where we have to have a clear and direct link of Stalions handing Harbaugh a binder full of signals and Stalions saying "here's those signals you told me to steal, coach" and Harbaugh saying "thank you for following my very specific instructions to illegally steal these signals, Connor".

Edited by Pam Cummings
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Posted

Michigan can't hide under the lone wolf argument. The cheating occured by a paid member of the staff who ultimately reports to Harbaugh and the AD. They benefited from this scheme more than the "lone wolf" who had to have a side hustle to make ends meet while Harbaugh and the university made millions. Not hard to understand unless you are a Michigan fan.

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Posted
  On 11/10/2023 at 6:16 PM, Pam Cummings said:

Yep. Certain people think this is a murder trial or something ...

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Murder? No. But millions of dollars? Yep. 

It seems that quite a lot of coaches have opinions that having scouts at future opponents' games is not at all uncommon. The fact is, the prohibition is against attending the games at all, and not whether cameras are used. Banning cameras, mics and such is a separate rule, having  to do with in-game activities. I'd be surprised if Meatchicken hasn't been violating that as well, but that's not been mentioned.

I'm guessing that the admission - or at least, characterization - that NFL football is "entertainment", which obviates a presumption of "fairness" may well lie at the heart of the matter in this case.

Are we not entertained?

Posted
  On 11/10/2023 at 6:16 PM, Pam Cummings said:

Yep. Certain people think this is a murder trial or something where we have to have a clear and direct link of Stalions handing Harbaugh a binder full of signals and Stalions saying "here's those signals you told me to steal, coach" and Harbaugh saying "thank you for following my very specific instructions to illegally steal these signals, Connor".

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Yes, This is why you see ex-Michigan folks and some "impartial" commentators who are asking for a pause to let this play out. Let's not rush to judgment. Everyone should have their chance to defend themselves. Blah blah blah.

Their playbook:

Step 1: Deny

Step 2: Raise the bar to proving the case. Equate it to due process for a criminal.

Step 3: ???

Step 4: Profit

Harbaugh should be suspended for the remainder of the season, or at least through the Big Ten Championship game. Unsure if the Big Ten has any say over bowls and definitely does not have a say in the CFP. Then if the NCAA also wants to punish Michigan, they will vacate all of the victories over the last 3 years. Which only impact the all-time win record that Michigan owns. 

 

 

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