Jim Harbaugh NO LONGER coaches at Michigan

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

Wow. I have a lot of problems with this. Mack's tenure wasn't perfect, but it was a lot better than anything Michigan has sniffed since... what, the late 40s? Colt doesn't go out in 2010 and Mack likely has 2 titles. There's a chance we were the best team in the country in 2008, too, but we'll never know I guess. 

And it might rub some the wrong way, but I find it hard to beleive we weren't doing similar things behind the scenes in the 2000s as everyone else that was perennialy in national title conversation was. I don't know if I would even call it "cheating" but I would roll my eyes at the notion that our players under Mack were some troop of Bible thumping, hit-the-books, morally-upstanding young gentlemen.

Sure, our standards were above the Oklahomas and LSUs of the world, but Texas is a better school that historically hasn't needed to be as dirty as its neighbors. 

And four national titles is a strange goalpost. No one but Saban has achieved that. 

So no, we aren't Alabama, we aren't quite tOSU or Oklahoma (unfortunately) but good Lord we sure as shit aren't Michigan. 5 bowl wins in the past 21 years? They aren't all NY6 but we have 12.

One, I think you're taking some things a bit too literally. Change it to three national titles, or two, if that works better for you. I could not care less how many times we coulda shoulda or secretly were the best team in the country. As a program, we've won one national title in fifty years. We've won six conference titles* in the last thirty years, three since the formation of the Big 12 in 1996. We don't win enough.

Two, I'm not arguing our players are too nice, although I think most of our teams since the mid-80s have been disproportionately filled with talented pussies. I'm arguing that football has a comparatively reduced importance at Texas and Michigan compared to our rivals. We have that in common, as well as the reason(s) why it's so. 

Lastly, Michigan's last national title was eight years before our last one. Their last conference title was six years before our last one. Over the last thirty years, they're the 11th winningest program in the country; we're 16th. Great, we have a bunch more bowl wins than them, thanks to our proclivity for dominating the Holiday, Alamo, and Texas Bowls, respectively. 

Leaving the hyper-specific on-field ways in which Texas and Michigan's records do not perfectly align since 1998 or whenever, my point was that both programs are too easily satisfied with finishing second as long as they can tell themselves that finishing first requires compromises both illegal and merely unethical and We're Above That. We are a university with a football program; we tell ourselves OU is just a football factory with a shit school attached to it, to make us feel better about them winning the Big 12 every year. Michigan does the same thing with Ohio State. Go out to MGoBlog and spend a few minutes reading about what they think about Justin Fields' course load at Ohio State. Then go over to any Ohio State site and see if their fans seem bothered by the implication or accusation that there's something wrong with having a semi-pro semi-student at QB. 

* counting the bullshit 1994 five-way tie for 2nd behind ineligible A&M

Edited August 7, 2020 by SwanderedTalent

[ztejas 43419]

9 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

One, I think you're taking some things a bit too literally. Change it to three national titles, or two, if that works better for you. I could not care less how many times we coulda shoulda or secretly were the best team in the country. As a program, we've won one national title in fifty years. We've won six conference titles* in the last thirty years, three since the formation of the Big 12 in 1996. We don't win enough.

Totally agree. And I was just responding to what you wrote. Just making the point that there's a difference between contending and not winning (Oklahoma) and straight up not contending (Michigan). Not that we've done much of either in the past decade.

9 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I'm arguing that football has a comparatively reduced importance at Texas and Michigan compared to our rivals. We have that in common, as well as the reason(s) why it's so. 

Again, I agree. But we also don't bend over backwards for OU the way that Michigan does. Yes Mack got mudholed way too many times, but even in our worst decade ever and a very good decade for OU we won 3 times. Is that acceptable? No. And it shouldn't be. But good Lord OU has never come close to owning us in that series the way that tOSU has owned Michigan the past 15, 20 years.

9 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Lastly, Michigan's last national title was eight years before our last one. Their last conference title was six years before our last one. Over the last thirty years, they're the 11th winningest program in the country; we're 16th. Great, we have a bunch more bowl wins than them, thanks to our proclivity for dominating the Holiday, Alamo, and Texas Bowls, respectively. 

Sure - and now you're venturing into highlighting how dogshit we were in the 2010s. You aren't going to get an argument for me that that was somehow an acceptable stretch for our program, and I hope we are able to come out of it. If we can't, then the comparison gets a lot more merit. But really - this last 10 years is the only reason Texas is starting to look like Michigan. From WW2 to 2010 we were a legit blueblood and they fell somewhere into that next tier. 

9 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

my point was that both programs are too easily satisfied with finishing second as long as they can tell themselves that finishing first requires compromises both illegal and merely unethical and We're Above That.

I'm not sure I buy that this is how we view football - and it certainly isn't how we've viewed it historically - we don't sit on as high of a horse as Michigan. I do think we have gotten really shitty at winning in the past 10 years, and that the game has passed us by too much. We spent too long bathing in 05 and making excuses for 08 and 09. Mack let everything go to shit. Strong made it all worse. Herman has underperformed (although I don't think I would trade him for Harbaugh just yet). So I hope that the university and BMDs and campus culture has not gotten too pussywhipped to take us into a place of no return. I'd like to think we are still just a hire away from a much needed course correction. We'll see if Herman has anything left before we go back to the drawing board. 

9 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

We are a university with a football program; we tell ourselves OU is just a football factory with a shit school attached to it, to make us feel better about them winning the Big 12 every year. Michigan does the same thing with Ohio State. Go out to MGoBlog and spend a few minutes reading about what they think about Justin Fields' course load at Ohio State. Then go over to any Ohio State site and see if their fans seem bothered by the implication or accusation that there's something wrong with having a semi-pro semi-student at QB. 

Agreed. 

Thanks for the reply - glad I could coax a little more out of you. I think we are on fairly common ground, I just think the Michigan comp is a little unfair still and kind of a surface level take. But maybe that's because OU has gotten soft along with us and made the rivalry comparison a little gentler. Lord knows they aren't content with being regular season darlings every year and getting their asses handed to them once the lights are on. 

[Horn80 6119]

On 2/27/2020 at 11:45 AM, 4th&Five said:

you seen the saints the last 3 years? pretty close and more condensed.

Truth.  Need to keep sharp objects away from Saint fans during the playoffs.  

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

Thanks for the reply - glad I could coax a little more out of you. I think we are on fairly common ground, I just think the Michigan comp is a little unfair still and kind of a surface level take. 

Likewise, and to some extent I agree that Michigan and Texas is kind of a facile comparison. I do think it fits better than you're allowing though, but that's just an opinion based on the fact that I think I'm more familiar with Michigan football than you are.

The main difference in our positions is that I think you think a lot more highly of Texas football's place in the CFB hierarchy. I think when it comes time to negotiate TV deals or the CFB Superconference, we will have the most important seat at the table. We're the flagship university, program, and brand in one of exactly two states in America that is football-mad and rapidly growing (Florida being the other). We matter, I'm pretty sure we always will.

We don't win like we should matter this much, though. The program took a wrong turn in the mid-70s and it has never fully recovered. Every year that goes by without us actually winning something, the numbers just get more astounding. Six conference titles in 30 years doesn't even work out to one per four-year recruiting class on average, meaning there's a good chance you can sign with Texas and never win a conference title. One national title in fifty years-- I mean, when you take in aggregate our win percentage and the resources of this program and state and this is all we can muster*, what is your explanation for it? Do you think it's just bad luck?

* meaning either our total success over the last fifty years, or even Mack Brown's fifteen years here if you want to limit it to that, take your pick-- Mack Brown should be the floor for our football program, not its ceiling. 

[Herpa Derpa 6125]

14 hours ago, Brothahorn said:

Wilson – a first-round pick in 2020 NFL Draft – was once a heavy Michigan lean, with 91 percent of the 247Sports Crystal Ball predictions calling for him to commit to the Wolverines over Georgia and Alabama.

Then, Jim Harbaugh happened.

“Harbaugh did something weird,” Wilson told Bartsool Sports' Bussin' With the Boys podcast. “He did something super weird.”

Turns out, Harbaugh was extremely insistent on his shoe game.

“Remember when they first got the deal with Jordan?” Wilson said. ”He just wouldn’t take off his cleats. He came to my in-home visit with cleats on his feet. And I have hardwood floors. And he’s just walking around with cleats bro. After that, it was over.”

Yes, Jim Harbaugh missed out on the No. 16 player in the country because he wore cleats inside his house, for some reason, and refused to take them off.

But it turns out, this wasn't exactly a one-time thing. It seems Harbaugh pretty much just always wears cleats. Former Michigan corner Jourdan Lewis said Harbaugh wears cleats on all the team's chartered flights – something a New York Times photograph confirms. Former Michigan wide receiver Amara Darboh even went as far as to say he's "never seen him in tennis shoes."

He's a clown. Cleats are his clown shoes.

[VABuckeye 2472]

I can buy that as a football program Ohio State resembles Oklahoma.  They both put a premium on winning,

Academically, there is no comparison between the two.  Ohio State is leagues better than Oklahoma in academics.  Is Ohio State Texas or scum academically?  No, but it's a damned good university.

[ztejas 43419]

23 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

We don't win like we should matter this much, though. The program took a wrong turn in the mid-70s and it has never fully recovered. Every year that goes by without us actually winning something, the numbers just get more astounding. Six conference titles in 30 years doesn't even work out to one per four-year recruiting class on average, meaning there's a good chance you can sign with Texas and never win a conference title. One national title in fifty years-- I mean, when you take in aggregate our win percentage and the resources of this program and state and this is all we can muster*, what is your explanation for it? Do you think it's just bad luck?

* meaning either our total success over the last fifty years, or even Mack Brown's fifteen years here if you want to limit it to that, take your pick-- Mack Brown should be the floor for our football program, not its ceiling. 

Yes, we should have more national championships. Although the "one title in 50 years" is a little cherrypicked for the sake of your argument. We have 4 in the past 60 when you include our best decade. 

Luck is certainly a part of it. Akers should have had one in the 80s, Mack should have had at least 2. There are universes where Mack falls ass-backwards into 3 national titles. 

I mean I'm sure if you did some regression of "expected national championships" we would be more along the lines of 7 or 8 and not 4. We have as many top 5 and top 10 finishes since WW2 as all but a very, very select handful of programs. 

At the end of the day we are to football what Kansas is to basketball, with one more championship. KU has 3 titles in 9 tries in the big game and another 6 Final Four appearances where they didn't make the final. Unfortunately there are going to be programs that have more hardware than they should and less, and Texas football is part of the latter. What's also infuriating is that Texas baseball is part of the latter as well. 6 titles in 36 fucking CWS appearances is a tough pill to swallow. 

22 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

Academically, there is no comparison between the two.  Ohio State is leagues better than Oklahoma in academics.  Is Ohio State Texas or scum academically?  No, but it's a damned good university.

I don't think anyone here is comparing universities academically at face value. The comparison is how student athletes are treated and what is required from them academically. Which at OU and tOSU is jack shit. 

[WhatTheBuck 28778]

On August 6, 2020 at 3:18 PM, Horn80 said:

How does he keep his job with 0-5 vs Ohio St and losing 4 Bowl games in a row?  

He seemed like the perfect hire and they pulled out all the stops to bring him home. He's a legacy so he's going to get an extremely long leash. Also, they have no idea what the fuck they're going to do if he doesn't work out. 

[Herpa Derpa 6125]

19 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Also, they have no idea what the fuck they're going to do if he doesn't work out. 

Hire a competent coach who manages not to look like a jackass every other day?

On a half-serious note, if the true blue (and maize) Michigan Money Men have a scintilla of forethought, they start lining up Brinks trucks in front of Urban's house until he says yes.

[WhatTheBuck 28778]

On August 7, 2020 at 3:55 PM, VABuckeye said:

I can buy that as a football program Ohio State resembles Oklahoma.  They both put a premium on winning,

Academically, there is no comparison between the two.  Ohio State is leagues better than Oklahoma in academics.  Is Ohio State Texas or scum academically?  No, but it's a damned good university.

U.S. News & World Report rankings:

Michigan: 25
Texas: 48
Ohio State: 54
Oklahoma: 132

[WhatTheBuck 28778]

2 minutes ago, Herpa Derpa said:

Hire a competent coach who manages not to look like a jackass every other day?

On a half-serious note, if the true blue (and maize) Michigan Money Men have a scintilla of forethought, they start lining up Brinks trucks in front of Urban's house until he says yes.

LOL

[4th&Five 41526]

Yeah, there’s about the same chance Texas hires Stoops. 

[Tex Pete 20348]

On 8/6/2020 at 10:19 PM, Brothahorn said:

Former Michigan corner Jourdan Lewis said Harbaugh wears cleats on all the team's chartered flights – something a New York Times photograph confirms. Former Michigan wide receiver Amara Darboh even went as far as to say he's "never seen him in tennis shoes."

Sounds like JoePuh. Does Harbaugh also like to fuck little boys?

[WhatTheBuck 28778]

25 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Sounds like JoePuh. 

How so?

[Tex Pete 20348]

[Horn80 6119]

14 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

He seemed like the perfect hire and they pulled out all the stops to bring him home. He's a legacy so he's going to get an extremely long leash. Also, they have no idea what the fuck they're going to do if he doesn't work out. 

Agree at the time, he appeared to be the perfect hire but at some point you would think there are minimum requirements in the win/loss category that he is not coming close to meeting expectations for what his salary is.  If you get paid the big bucks (3rd-highest-paid head coach) like he is, then he’s got to produce conference championships and/or more bowl wins or be fired.  

[mulletpelini 5211]

The guy was going to coach at KU.  He was always going to fail.  It was his destiny.

[LTtxfan 49184]

Still can't believe Michigan has struggled so much at QB...

(Thanks to @texifornia for finding this tweet...)

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by LTtxfan

[Juicy 727]

I think this is the year Jimmy's seat starts to become uncomfortably warm. Looking like 6-3 is best case scenario and 4-5 could happen (Minny, Wiscy, Pedo, O$U and the crossover because they wont do repeat games will likely be Iowa), still not beating O$U, and not just speaking out publicly but actively protesting against the university president's decision, are all terrible looks. 

Hopefully Milton is the truth, Michigan fans are comparing him to Cam and VY already. I think Drew Henson is a better comparison but I guess we will see. 

No contract for next season and a mutual breakup could actually happen. If it does bring Chris Partridge back as the HC and just let him recruit like crazy and hire some stud coordinators. 

 

[Wally Fairway 5544]

1 hour ago, Juicy said:

 If it does bring Chris Partridge back as the HC and just let him recruit like crazy and hire some stud coordinators. 

FWIW - IMO, recruiting isn't the problem in Ann Arbor

[Juicy 727]

1 minute ago, Wally Fairway said:

FWIW - IMO, recruiting isn't the problem in Ann Arbor

When O$U is bringing in a top 2 class every year it is definitely a problem.

[4th&Five 41526]

QB recruiting is.

[Wally Fairway 5544]

15 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

QB recruiting is.

or QB development, or game planning, or having a system and find a QB not picking the best QB you can find and changing your offense yearly to fit him (rinse, wash, repeat)

I've learned to love Harbs (not as much Columbus loves him, but still)

[Juicy 727]

6 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

 

I've learned to love Harbs (not as much Columbus loves him, but still)

That seems odd as a state fan... If there is one thing Jimmy has done well it is beat Staee

 

[Wally Fairway 5544]

44 minutes ago, Juicy said:

That seems odd as a state fan... If there is one thing Jimmy has done well it is beat Staee

Thanks for proving my point - Jimmy is 3-2 against State; and that makes UM fans happy

[Juicy 727]

1 hour ago, Wally Fairway said:

Thanks for proving my point - Jimmy is 3-2 against State; and that makes UM fans happy

do you not remember before Jimmy? they were 1-6. Now they are 3-1 in the last 4 years. That's a big turnaround. 

I am not happy with Harbaugh, but it has nothing to do with the Bunyan Rivalry. Well maybe he should have went max protect in the trouble with the snap game. 

 

[mulletpelini 5211]

Calling my shot.  This is the year that Michigan finally beats OSU.  Has to be.  It's 2020.  This. is. the. year.

and then he'll leave Michigan for a job with the NY Jets.

It's perfect really.

[WhatTheBuck 28778]

On September 21, 2020 at 1:19 PM, Wally Fairway said:

FWIW - IMO, recruiting isn't the problem in Ann Arbor

I'd say it is. Obviously, QB recruitment and development has been a problem. I'm not sure why they ran Brandon Peters off in favor of Shea Patterson. But traditionally when Michigan has success they do it with recruits from Ohio and Harbaugh hasn't recruited Ohio well. 

Harbaugh has moved UM up in the recruiting rankings but hasn't matched OSU. I don't follow recruiting all that closely but if Harbaugh has gotten a commitment from a recruit that OSU offered, it's been a rare occasion. Also, I've heard multiple reports that Harbaugh doesn't have any sort of organized recruiting strategy. It's just up to the assistants to go recruit whomever. If that's true then that's a pretty strong indictment of the way he runs his program. 

[Tribe171 10]

8 hours ago, mulletpelini said:

Calling my shot.  This is the year that Michigan finally beats OSU.  Has to be.  It's 2020.  This. is. the. year.

and then he'll leave Michigan for a job with the NY Jets.

It's perfect really.

Might want to hold off on that prediction a few weeks. The Minnesota win is not looking so hot after last night.

[4th&Five 41526]

beat osu?

Edited October 31, 2020 by 4th&Five

[Funk Doctor Spock 12190]

People comparing us to Michigan have no idea what they're talking about. We're much, much worse than Michigan, especially since we recruit circles around them and still only manage 7-8 wins. 

[Nolacycling 893]

Favored by 20+. Lol.

[4th&Five 41526]

Lulz. Still no QB and with those corners OSU can name the score. 

[Horn80 6119]

State better than Michigan.  And what exactly do you do here Harbaugh?

[VABuckeye 2472]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[mulletpelini 5211]

Mullet curse still in full effect, no matter the year.  I believe Tom Herman will not be at Texas next year, calling my shot.

[Bogeywon 2519]

As a michigan fan I hope osu hangs 100 on us so we can fire this trash can of a coach

[Parliament 14257]

As an Ohio State fan, I hope to hang 100 on you as well.

[Bogeywon 2519]

59 minutes ago, Parliament said:

As an Ohio State fan, I hope to hang 100 on you as well.

You will and I won’t even care. 

[Funk Doctor Spock 12190]

6 minutes ago, Bogeywon said:

You will and I won’t even care. 

Welcome to apathy 

[Wally Fairway 5544]

The transitive property tells me next week is trouble because Indiana > Rutgers > MSU > Michy

Therefore Indiana >>> Michy

[heso 2792]

Record through 66 games:

Jim Harbaugh at Michigan: 48-18

Bo Pelini at Nebraska: 48-18

[Wally Fairway 5544]

The transitive property tells me next week is trouble because Indiana > Rutgers > MSU > Michy

Therefore Indiana >>> Michy

[Juicy 727]

Let's hope he is crossing the T's and dotting the Is on his resignation letter. 

Give me Fleck, give me Harsin, give me Herman, give me literally anyone other than this shell of a coach. 

If Michigan could get bieniemy  Venables or steal Urban Meyer from Texas that would be great. If they can't still have to make a move. Give me a 16 year old madden kid at this point. 

[RomaVicta 29907]

Wandering the coaching desert is hell. ScipioTex said that Harbaugh might be in play when we replaced Mack and missed on Saban. The prospect was exciting. A sure thing. A proven winner. Check all the boxes.

You just never know. Go back and look at all the sure things. It's a crap shoot. 

Meyer seems to be the exceptional candidate like Saban. Swinney likely is another, but can you be sure if his success is limited to one place? Fit is important. I thought Harbaugh's prospective problem at Texas was fit, but I would have cheered had we signed him.

Just musing. I hate coaching instability. I think that's one of the reasons I'm drawn to Traylor. I want a 25 year coach. I also want a Masserati and a, well, fill in the blank yourself, you get the picture.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 hour ago, Juicy said:

If Michigan could get bieniemy  Venables or steal Urban Meyer from Texas that would be great.

you have a better shot at Bob Stoops than Urban Meyer

Bienemy seems like a perfect fit, though, as an opposite-guardrail/overreaction to Harbaugh's failure. I hope he ends up there. 

[66BUFF 2562]

Michigan down 24.-7 going into halftime against Indiana.  Think Harbaugh wants to get canned and get out of Ann Arbor.

[TXpride 544]

He's done

[VABuckeye 2472]

[FOXHOUND 1021]

Overshown has been making plays today.