Jim Harbaugh NO LONGER coaches at Michigan

[TexasMan 11,383]

 

[TexasMan 11,383]

 

[TrashMaster G 18,030]

1 hour ago, Mr. Drummond said:

Don't be a poor.

Username checks out.

[msucolt45 4,213]

I honestly didn't know this was illegal.   Even in the 80s we used fake signs and dummy calls all the time for this very reason.    

Exactly! Just as a 3B Coach in Baseball, all the signs, but the crucial sign is the “key” to signal the “true sign/signal”. Look at every FB sideline and there are multiple “visual” signs going on, but which one is the “true” one?

Unless Michigan tapped into Rutgers’ headsets, while at the Big House, then the NCAA has NO questionable problem! Hell every team has a GA with binoculars in the PB looking for signs, to see if they can make sense out of the multiple signs shown to the field. It’s all a guessing game!

Hook’em!!!

[4th&Five 41,904]

[ChiTownDoc 21,323]

3 minutes ago, msucolt45 said:

Exactly! Just as a 3B Coach in Baseball, all the signs, but the crucial sign is the “key” to signal the “true sign/signal”. Look at every FB sideline and there are multiple “visual” signs going on, but which one is the “true” one?

Unless Michigan tapped into Rutgers’ headsets, while at the Big House, then the NCAA has NO questionable problem! Hell every team has a GA with binoculars in the PB looking for signs, to see if they can make sense out of the multiple signs shown to the field. It’s all a guessing game!

Hook’em!!!

Pretty sure it's known to occur - you just can't film or use electronic means to steal. 

[locodos 5,583]

1 minute ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Under the bus you go!

[Davis Lane 5,978]

1 hour ago, Mr. Drummond said:

Don't be a poor.

Username and what not.

[Juicy 729]

5 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

How do you even prove this happened minus written admissions by the meatchicken staff?

Did they see some GA on the grassy knoll?

This is what I was thinking. Unless they somehow are showing video non stop in the football building that was recorded how can you prove it.

Also if true Harbaugh is a fucking idiot. You don't need to steal signs to beat the tomato cans you have played so far so why even risk it. 

State had their out to avoid getting bombed. They should have taken it. 

 

But seriously, how much of an advantage could it be. Signs come in with around 20 seconds on the playclock, so you have to decipher the code, and then try and communicate it out there to your defense somehow before the offense snaps the ball. Seems like it could be exploited easily by the offense by snapping early if the entire defense is trying to look at the sideline to crack the code. 

Schiano is an incredible dirtbag, who used to bomb QB kneels and taught players to go after knees. If it is all brought about by his complaints I would say it is 100% bullshit.  

[Juicy 729]

2 hours ago, closetojumping said:

I'm interested to see what people start coming up with after rewatching the Michigan/Rutgers game. For Schiano to be that convicted at the end of a half, shit had to be obvious to the trained eye. For them to report it to the NCAA, they had to have a visual blueprint of how and who was doing what for Michigan. It had to be compelling enough for the NCAA to start digging and now they're at a spot where think they've got the fucking guy. 

Harbaugh is like a more successful Tom Herman. He's hated by a lot of people, he thinks he's smarter than everyone else, and he doesn't think the rules apply to him. The guy visited Andrew Luck on campus at Stratford when there were no contact rules in place, and he did it easily and on multiple occasions. Someone who was there at the time said it was clear that that's just what Harbaugh did when he visited schools. That shit is illegal and the vast majority of coaches don't attempt it.

If you wanted to try and convince me that Michigan was doing this in prep for PSU and O$U and had 9-10 games of tendencies on both of them I could maybe get behind a conspiracy. However, there is no fucking way Michigan was that concerned about fucking Rutgers that they would have blown their cover for games that actually had an outcome in doubt.

If Schiano was smart, he could have just called up his buddies in columbus, told them about it, and had them change their signs the week of the game. Then he and day could have come out after the fact and been like "we had some thoughts they were stealing signs so we changed them" and really embarrassed harbaugh.

[Tex Long 4,616]

1 hour ago, TexasHooch said:

My understanding is that the rule was actually enacted as an equitability/ cost saving measure in (I think) 1994.  What was happening at the time is that the big dogs were sending scouts in-person to do this kind of recon, but it was viewed as an issue of the haves vs the have-nots.  Notre Dame could send staff to Sister Mary's of the Poor games to pick apart their process, but Sister Mary's couldn't afford to do the same which, they say, created a competitive imbalance.  

That's why film and in-game scouting is fair game, but advanced in-person scouting is not. 

Or so ze Germans want you to believe.

[HtownHorn 15,243]

26 minutes ago, Juicy said:

If you wanted to try and convince me that Michigan was doing this in prep for PSU and O$U and had 9-10 games of tendencies on both of them I could maybe get behind a conspiracy. However, there is no fucking way Michigan was that concerned about fucking Rutgers that they would have blown their cover for games that actually had an outcome in doubt.

If Schiano was smart, he could have just called up his buddies in columbus, told them about it, and had them change their signs the week of the game. Then he and day could have come out after the fact and been like "we had some thoughts they were stealing signs so we changed them" and really embarrassed Harbaugh.

Dude, your coach is a legit psychopath. He definitely did this shit.

[Parliament 14,559]

Stealing offensive signs makes a big difference for sure, but what if they knew the defense's plays as well?  Iirc, our offense did OK against Michigan last year but our defense got torched.  Torched on big plays.

Sparty's original, "We can't play them because it's dangerous," statement is very week.  Just huddle and have a WR walk the play in.

Yeah it would be very dumb if he spied on everyone, not just the good teams.  But Harbaugh is on the autism spectrum somewhere.  Don't put it past him.

[OU Sucks 9,325]

It will be interesting when MSU uses the same signs but then changes the plays to exploit the best defense for the original plays.

[LTtxfan 49,909]

3 hours ago, Mr. Drummond said:

I honestly didn't know this was illegal.   Even in the 80s we used fake signs and dummy calls all the time for this very reason.    

Venables at Clemson was also accused of stealing signals...

 

[Parliament 14,559]

Ohio State huddled most/all plays when we played them in 2020.

[Longboard Horn 41,319]

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1,274]

21 minutes ago, Longboard Horn said:

Never. Just, no.

[Bateshorn 9,989]

Just in: Football coach does thing that every other football coach does. More at 11.

[AeroHorn 793]

Looks like it is lot more prevalent, but may be not that useful during the game itself.

https://theathletic.com/408558/2018/07/02/the-game-within-a-game-secrets-of-a-college-football-signal-stealer/

Spoiler

The game within a game: Secrets of a college football signal stealer

Bruce Feldman

A veteran college football coach who has worked in almost every Power 5 conference is sitting down for a late lunch. This is typically a moment when he would gush about his players. But on this afternoon, in a rare instance, he is gushing about another coach.

“The level of espionage in this sport is insane, and he’s the best I’ve ever seen,” he said as he lowered his voice. “You go from giving up 12- and 14-yard chunks to plays of negative-2 yards. He’s amazing.”

He is a signal stealer.

Well, actually he’s a defensive assistant coach. He also has a rare talent that can — and on several occasions has — changed the course of a college football game. This isn’t a case in which it’s a guy who used intel he brought from a previous staff to burn an old employer. This is next-level stuff. Armed with his trusty binoculars, pen and a pad, he can deliver wondrous bits of info and become an offensive coordinator’s worst nightmare.

He agreed to share some of his secrets with The Athletic to provide insight on the practice of signal stealing in college football. We agreed to not disclose his identity or the details of the teams he’s worked for or faced.

One example of his handiwork came against a conference rival. “I got their stretch, boot and power signals as soon as I saw their first series,” he says, acknowledging the simplicity of the boot giveaway. It was someone on the sideline gesturing as if they were putting boots on. “It’s too simple sometimes because they have to communicate it to the players and they don’t want to add another layer onto the players to not screw it up.

“Their coach makes the call. Right as he makes the call, I said, ‘You’re getting boot.’ They booted right into an edge blitz, and we made a pick.”

That interception, a pick-six, was a game changer, and by the end of the day they had held a gifted quarterback and his offense to less than half their offensive production from a year earlier.

This season, the business of signal stealing could become more challenging. In May, the NCAA passed a rule limiting the number of people who can use headsets during a game to 20, including the 15 coaches (head coach, 10 assistants and four graduate assistants). The other five headsets will go to four players and one other staffer who is in a non-coaching role. “What a drastic change that may be for some schools,” said one Power 5 coordinator who suspects some programs used those additional headsets as part of their signal-stealing operation.

Coaches say they noticed a dramatic difference in staffs piled into the press boxes from around 2005, when there would usually be five total coaches upstairs, to around 2012, when some schools had 14 or 15 staffers in there. If you’re an off-the-field assistant trying to steal signals, “Now you’re gonna have to stand right beside the (defensive coordinator),” says a veteran signal stealer who has worked in multiple Power 5 conferences. “And you won’t get information clearly, fast enough, with confidence in front of 80,000 people to make a difference.”

Not that anyone thinks this will put an end to the sideline sleuthing.

---

Just how common is signal-stealing espionage in college football? The Athleticspoke to more than 20 coaches who estimated that 80 percent to 90 percent of college teams do some form of it. Several of the coaches contacted for this story have worked in the FBS and the NFL and said there is considerably more signal stealing in college than the pros. The two biggest reasons for that: the NFL’s speaker system through which a coach talks to earpieces in the helmets of the quarterback on offense and to the middle linebacker on defense, and most NFL teams huddle much more than college teams.

The guru of all signal stealers was the NFL’s Howard Mudd. The Indianapolis Colts offensive line coach from 1998 to 2009 under Tony Dungy led a unit that allowed the fewest sacks in the NFL over that dozen-year period when Peyton Manning’s offense was shredding the league.

“The urban myth is true,” a former Colts player says. “Howard had an unbelievable ability to decipher those signals and the codes in a way that very few could and do it instantaneously and have a read on it, and to be able to communicate it quickly enough.

“That’s half the battle — OK, I’ve got the sign, it’s like in baseball, I’m standing on second base and have the catcher’s sign. Well, how do I communicate it to the batter in a way that I’m not tipping my hand as well? There’s games on every side of it. How quickly in real time can that be relayed to the coordinator before the play comes in to be able to actually take advantage of it? And they were the best at it.”

Even though teams love as much information as possible, the bottom line for elite quarterbacks is knowing whether pressure is coming. That explains why most teams have a whole practice period on offense that is designated for blitz pickup. Teams first want the quarterback to stay upright, healthy and maintain possession. They also recognize that if they know it is coming and the quarterback can get the right protection and right play — and the defense doesn’t check out of it — the defense is vulnerable.

“Peyton was unbelievable with, ‘OK, the blitz is coming, now watch me decipher which blitz and I’m going to absolutely feast upon it,” the former Colt says. “Those signals, by the way, changed because that urban legend (Mudd’s signal-stealing acumen) was such that everybody in the NFL knew about him, too. When they played Peyton and Howard Mudd, they knew. They weren’t dumb. They were mixing signals and doing all they could to try and change those signals, but Howard’s ability to not only go into a game with some of that code but also to decipher it in-game, that’s where the magic really was. That’s why they were so elite.

“It was, ‘OK, here’s the hand to the boot. Here’s the hand to the elbow. Here’s shooting a bow-and-arrow. Here’s any number of these different signals. Rubbing their chest, doing an exploding dynamite, or maybe it was super subtle — they’re taking their hat off or touching their ear.’ There is absolutely an advantage when you know it’s coming, and those guys can crack the code of which pressure it is based on the safety, based on look, based on tendency, based on the whole Rolodex that Peyton would be able to go through.”

NFL teams are skilled enough to change signals on the fly during a game. The college game doesn’t have that level of sophistication. It’s a more elementary process, but the increase in staff sizes at the FBS level has created more opportunities for bigger programs to engage in it.

One longtime coach who has spent more than two decades as a college defensive coordinator says, “If you sneak in and go to somebody’s practice, it’s unethical. If somebody’s steals my signals, that’s on me. It’s up to you to keep things changed up.”

The coach added that his eyes were opened later in his career when his head coach hired a staffer whose main role was to steal signals. “That was pretty much all he did. He studied a lot of TV copies. That’s where he got most of his stuff. He could get everything — formation and play — and he would have it early. What he told me, and it really resonated, was if you can get three or four calls, that makes a huge difference in the game. It’s all worth it. After that, I realized I gotta hide my signals. It was a big deal to hide everything we did from then on. I don’t think people realize how easy it is to get your signals if you’re not really being discreet.”

Defensive coordinators’ biggest fears are the offense knowing what coverage they are playing. The ready-set-check-with-me teams, which have the quarterback and everybody else except the center look over to the sideline, are the ones that spook defensive staffs the most.

Nothing, though, is more unsettling for a coach than when he suspects the other team is onto them. To that point, if a coach doesn’t expect a former colleague to spill the beans on him, he is kidding himself. NFL teams often debrief new players about their old teams. In college, most of the turnover isn’t player-related, it’s coach-related. And dealing with college kids who don’t play football for a living makes coaches more hesitant to overhaul signals even though they are fully aware of the risk of not doing so.

“You know it when they’ve got you because you start thinking, they’re not that lucky,” says one coach, who said his players came to the sideline shaken after they heard an opponent calling out their code word for a specific blitz. “The players are looking at me like I’ve got three heads.”

---

Our signal stealer stumbled onto this craft in his first year, when he was making next-to-nothing as an entry-level staffer. His role on game day was to sit upstairs in the coaches’ box and call out personnel for the defensive coordinator. He thought to himself, how can I be of more value?

Over the years, he’s developed his methodology. “I’m writing down everything — hand on nose, arm out, hand on top of head. … What is the actual play? Are they signaling numbers in? Or is the signal a word? It’s just about being methodical and matching early what you see and getting confirmation of the little things. I just try to really pay attention and write down notes.”

He’s learned many coaches don’t change their signals. They don’t want to think about extra steps because they have to process and do a lot in a hurry, he says. And they don’t want their players getting bogged down trying to recall things that might not be intuitive.

“It’s a giant math problem,” the coach says. “I can’t help myself doing it a lot of times. It’s a puzzle.”

A three-fingers sign is a common tip for 11 personnel (one running back, one tight end and three wideouts). The Longhorns hand-gesture is common for 12 personnel (one running back, two tight ends, two wideouts). A fist is often used for 21 personnel (two backs, one tight end, two wideouts). “Some teams don’t care about giving you that information, but it can help your call defensively,” the coach says.

Such information, when relayed to the defensive coordinator, can afford him an additional three or four seconds to make his decision. If the offense is going to be in 22 personnel (two running backs and two tight ends), the defense better have some heavy people in the game to counter, whereas against 10 personnel (one back and four wideouts), the defense probably will want to be in nickel or dime.

Boise State, for example, has frustrated rival staffs for years with its mass substitutions on offense, which don’t appear to be signaled in and send defensive coordinators scrambling.

Identifying personnel can be a thankless role that involves repeatedly and furiously counting up bodies.

A former college assistant now coaching in the NFL recalls when a staffer was right on every snap but one. He yelled out “11” but hadn’t noticed that the player who appeared to be a receiver wearing No. 88 was a tight end wearing a scrunched-up No. 83. The defense was playing the pass and got gashed by a power running play.

Pregame recon is a must for a staffer whose duty it is to identify personnel before defensive coordinators make their call: This guy has high socks. That guy has three wristbands on his right arm. That guy has wristbands on both elbows. Seeing who is coming out of the game is just as important as seeing who is coming in. And it is chaotic, especially when the official who is supposed to stand over the ball to give the defense time to match up sometimes doesn’t.

“Shit’s happening so fast,” says one staffer in his late 30s who has spent time at the NFL and college levels. “It ain’t easy.”

Any advance intel is welcome when a team is trying to decipher signals and codes. It can be something detected from an opponent’s previous games or something gleaned from a close coaching peer who has played the opponent.

Technology is making them more vulnerable, too. Cameras and audio quality always are improving, and each season a handful of teams get burned by something that anyone on their couch could pick up if they knew what to look for. Many head coaches have a staffer watch a TV copy of a game broadcast in hopes of matching a gesture with a play. One Power 5 offensive coordinator told The Athletic he studies a TV copy every week to see what he can find. He also said, “I hate when they (TV cameras) pan to us.”

“You’d be shocked what you can get off the TV copy,” a Big 12 defensive coach says.

Some teams have weekly “skunk meetings” in which staffers gather whatever info they can from the TV copy. However, that intel comes with a caveat: If a coach thinks his guys can handle it, use it. If not, just read the keys and play ball.

Still, the former college assistant now working in the NFL calls studying the TV copy “the new signal stealing. It’s like playing poker. How do I know if he has a full house? Does he scratch his face? Everybody has a tell.”

---

College teams have taken pretty extreme measures to cloak how they get their plays in from the sideline — Oregon held up five bedsheets stretched across PVC frames to shield its sideline signalers from Arizona State’s staff in 2015. One of the coaches The Athletic spoke to said his team resorted to holding up towels to try to mask things from its opponent but realized its own players couldn’t see the signals. Just exchanging film has caused some dustups between staffs.

“Because they don’t want you to see their communication, they actually edit the film they send to their opponents so they don’t show them from the sideline communicating to the quarterback,” says the veteran signal stealer who has worked in multiple Power 5 conferences. “Their film guys are taught, ‘Hey, listen, you don’t start this frickin’ edit until we’re at the line.’

“I’ve had head coaches get pissed off because they feel like teams are leaving out motions and stuff. But the ones complaining about that the most are the ones who are probably cheating.”

An offensive coach in the Pac-12 says to throw defenses off the scent during the game, his team has three different signals for some go-to plays. “Defensive guys are paranoid,” he says. “You hit one out-and-up on ’em, and they won’t bite again for another five weeks.”

Deducing who is the live guy — the person sending in the signal for the actual play to be run — is crucial, but it’s not impossible to do. If a team has three signalers, for example, they might not finish their signals at the same time. Based on how the quarterback or offense reacts, it can be discerned which is the live call.

“Figuring out their live guy to me is just common sense,” our signal stealer says. “Some people will change it and mix it up. I think their third-string quarterback probably won’t be live. He’s usually just a dummy guy. The coach needs it to go right. They don’t want to take any delay-of-game penalty. Sometimes, the guy who is live will stand a bit further forward. You can also usually tell from the body language of who the quarterback is looking at or who stops signaling and then the QB turns around. There’s always, always some little tells because they’ve got to communicate it quickly and efficiently. And, those (huge bingo) cards with the four random images are irrelevant 99 percent of the time. It just refers to how fast they wanna go or is a decoy.”

Some teams, conversely, don’t care if their opponent figures out which call is live, because they can’t adjust to it fast enough, he says. “We’re always running into a time constraint for it to be usable information.”

On a sideline, there are all sorts of possible targets. One guy who was charting players didn’t realize he’d been tipping off whether it was a run or pass until later in the season after a buddy on a different team broke the news to him. Run calls are a lot shorter: Green Right 93 Blast. Pass calls are longer: Blue Right, F-Short, Two-Jet, Flanker Drive. “Based on the time you would spend writing, we would have somebody watching you,” he was told, realizing that if defensive coordinators know if the play is a run or a pass, it is an enormous opportunity for them to get an eighth player in the box or play zone coverage.

One 30-something offensive coordinator scoffs at the notion of a defensive coordinator thinking he’s gained an advantage if he knows whether a play is going to be a run or a pass. “Those days are over with all of the RPOs and stuff we give our quarterback,” the offensive coordinator said. “I probably call runs 75 percent of the time (which actually translates into more of a 50-50 balance). I trust our quarterback to get us into the right thing because we spend so much time with him on worst-case scenarios.”

---

Our signal stealer talks to his defensive coordinator over the headset. He doesn’t want the players paying any attention to it — they should just focus on their game process. When he’s pretty sure he has something, he’ll say “ALERT!” and relay what he thinks is coming.

“You’re not gonna be right all the time. It’s the cost of doing business,” he says. “DCs get it. They understand what’s going on. I’ve never had a DC get mad at me. Even if you don’t get what you expect, you still have to be fundamentally sound.

“There’s been numerous times, though, where it’s more trouble than it’s worth. I’ve guessed wrong. You think it’s power and they run counter — ‘Aw, fuck.’ ”

He won’t act on anything within the first series: “I’m pretty analytical,” he says. “I don’t like to make broad statements that early in the game; maybe it’s a common play. I’m gonna let them run it again before I say, ‘Hey, Coach, that’s power.’

“Your data set isn’t big. If you advance scout people, like I’m pretty sure a few programs do, they’ll watch those things to write ’em down to match plays and signals, and it could really help. But if they only run power three times a game, there’s still a little hesitation and doubt.”

Many signals he’s figured out seem fairly intuitive. He’s deduced a team’s signal for running the power play (it relies on a double team at the point of attack and then a lead blocker coming in to clean up any nearby linebacker) when one of the signals punches one hand into the other as if to say, “I’m strong.” Another team’s signal was simulating barbell curls. Another was a flexed biceps pose.

“I’ve gotten power on third-and-short where we’ve had a cross blitz inside against it,” he says. “You match it up with plays you’re expecting from a scouting report.”

A signal he once got for four verts (four receivers running routes straight upfield) was one hand sliding off another upward with palms facing each other, as if taking off. He realized one opponent’s signal for four verts was tapping their wrists, like time to go. Putting a hand in front of one’s face has been used for a screen pass. Pretending to draw a beer from an imaginary tap could be a draw play.

Sometimes it seems just too easy, like when one Power 5 powerhouse drilled another by almost 40 points thanks in part to the rival defensive coordinator’s motioning what looked like a big zero above his head that proved to be a dead giveaway for a zero blitz call (cornerbacks on an island with no deep help).

Detecting when a hard count is coming also is a big plus. One team’s signal for that was looking like they were shivering, arms folded, hands rubbing their biceps to alert Freeze! Freeze! Freeze! “Sometimes, they’d do binoculars with their hands cupped around their eyes — see what the defense is gonna do.” Another was pretending to use a camera and triggering it with their index finger to take a picture.

Another proud moment for our signal stealer was getting an opponent’s call for zone read with a bubble. That was from someone holding their hands lined up with pinkies side to side in front of them, as if they were reading a book.

He is on high alert for double moves. Numerous times he’s noticed a chop-and-go preceded by a sideways tomahawk chop with something like a fist added to the end of it. In those moments, the defensive response is to be in more of a soft coverage and have the secondary play off and not break on the ball.

Defenses are most vulnerable at the start of a drive or after a quarter change, because the offense has 25 players standing around their coaches near the sideline. Who will come out of that pack and onto the line of scrimmage is anyone’s guess.

“It’s the only thing I’d usually give them ahead of time is one verts or double moves,” our signal stealer says. “ ‘Play it soft. If they throw a hitch on you, they get a hitch on you.’ ”

Signal stealing, of course, is a two-way street. Our signal stealer says he thinks that picking up defensive signals probably would be a lot easier than picking up offensive signals. “On D, you have to signal it in a lot faster, so there are a lot of one-signal deals,” he says. “There’s a lot more variables to the offensive side.”

The Pac-12 offensive coach says he’s more worried about his players tipping off a signal in warmups than anything being compromised during the game. “They’re dicking around in pregame and are creatures of habit and don’t even realize they’re doing it,” he says.

In reality, coaches tend to remember the one or two instances when clever detective work led to a game-changing play. What is the cost-benefit of all the effort that goes into it? That probably depends on the quality of work of the person who is doing it.

“The thought of signal stealing is really, really cool, but the practicality of it isn’t all that helpful,” our signal stealer says. “It totally is a game within a game, but sometimes you do wonder if the juice is actually worth the squeeze.”

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by AeroHorn

[Not a cat 5,804]

55 minutes ago, AeroHorn said:

Looks like it is lot more prevalent, but may be not that useful during the game itself.

https://theathletic.com/408558/2018/07/02/the-game-within-a-game-secrets-of-a-college-football-signal-stealer/

  Reveal hidden contents

The game within a game: Secrets of a college football signal stealer

Bruce Feldman

A veteran college football coach who has worked in almost every Power 5 conference is sitting down for a late lunch. This is typically a moment when he would gush about his players. But on this afternoon, in a rare instance, he is gushing about another coach.

“The level of espionage in this sport is insane, and he’s the best I’ve ever seen,” he said as he lowered his voice. “You go from giving up 12- and 14-yard chunks to plays of negative-2 yards. He’s amazing.”

He is a signal stealer.

Well, actually he’s a defensive assistant coach. He also has a rare talent that can — and on several occasions has — changed the course of a college football game. This isn’t a case in which it’s a guy who used intel he brought from a previous staff to burn an old employer. This is next-level stuff. Armed with his trusty binoculars, pen and a pad, he can deliver wondrous bits of info and become an offensive coordinator’s worst nightmare.

He agreed to share some of his secrets with The Athletic to provide insight on the practice of signal stealing in college football. We agreed to not disclose his identity or the details of the teams he’s worked for or faced.

One example of his handiwork came against a conference rival. “I got their stretch, boot and power signals as soon as I saw their first series,” he says, acknowledging the simplicity of the boot giveaway. It was someone on the sideline gesturing as if they were putting boots on. “It’s too simple sometimes because they have to communicate it to the players and they don’t want to add another layer onto the players to not screw it up.

“Their coach makes the call. Right as he makes the call, I said, ‘You’re getting boot.’ They booted right into an edge blitz, and we made a pick.”

That interception, a pick-six, was a game changer, and by the end of the day they had held a gifted quarterback and his offense to less than half their offensive production from a year earlier.

This season, the business of signal stealing could become more challenging. In May, the NCAA passed a rule limiting the number of people who can use headsets during a game to 20, including the 15 coaches (head coach, 10 assistants and four graduate assistants). The other five headsets will go to four players and one other staffer who is in a non-coaching role. “What a drastic change that may be for some schools,” said one Power 5 coordinator who suspects some programs used those additional headsets as part of their signal-stealing operation.

Coaches say they noticed a dramatic difference in staffs piled into the press boxes from around 2005, when there would usually be five total coaches upstairs, to around 2012, when some schools had 14 or 15 staffers in there. If you’re an off-the-field assistant trying to steal signals, “Now you’re gonna have to stand right beside the (defensive coordinator),” says a veteran signal stealer who has worked in multiple Power 5 conferences. “And you won’t get information clearly, fast enough, with confidence in front of 80,000 people to make a difference.”

Not that anyone thinks this will put an end to the sideline sleuthing.

---

Just how common is signal-stealing espionage in college football? The Athleticspoke to more than 20 coaches who estimated that 80 percent to 90 percent of college teams do some form of it. Several of the coaches contacted for this story have worked in the FBS and the NFL and said there is considerably more signal stealing in college than the pros. The two biggest reasons for that: the NFL’s speaker system through which a coach talks to earpieces in the helmets of the quarterback on offense and to the middle linebacker on defense, and most NFL teams huddle much more than college teams.

The guru of all signal stealers was the NFL’s Howard Mudd. The Indianapolis Colts offensive line coach from 1998 to 2009 under Tony Dungy led a unit that allowed the fewest sacks in the NFL over that dozen-year period when Peyton Manning’s offense was shredding the league.

“The urban myth is true,” a former Colts player says. “Howard had an unbelievable ability to decipher those signals and the codes in a way that very few could and do it instantaneously and have a read on it, and to be able to communicate it quickly enough.

“That’s half the battle — OK, I’ve got the sign, it’s like in baseball, I’m standing on second base and have the catcher’s sign. Well, how do I communicate it to the batter in a way that I’m not tipping my hand as well? There’s games on every side of it. How quickly in real time can that be relayed to the coordinator before the play comes in to be able to actually take advantage of it? And they were the best at it.”

Even though teams love as much information as possible, the bottom line for elite quarterbacks is knowing whether pressure is coming. That explains why most teams have a whole practice period on offense that is designated for blitz pickup. Teams first want the quarterback to stay upright, healthy and maintain possession. They also recognize that if they know it is coming and the quarterback can get the right protection and right play — and the defense doesn’t check out of it — the defense is vulnerable.

“Peyton was unbelievable with, ‘OK, the blitz is coming, now watch me decipher which blitz and I’m going to absolutely feast upon it,” the former Colt says. “Those signals, by the way, changed because that urban legend (Mudd’s signal-stealing acumen) was such that everybody in the NFL knew about him, too. When they played Peyton and Howard Mudd, they knew. They weren’t dumb. They were mixing signals and doing all they could to try and change those signals, but Howard’s ability to not only go into a game with some of that code but also to decipher it in-game, that’s where the magic really was. That’s why they were so elite.

“It was, ‘OK, here’s the hand to the boot. Here’s the hand to the elbow. Here’s shooting a bow-and-arrow. Here’s any number of these different signals. Rubbing their chest, doing an exploding dynamite, or maybe it was super subtle — they’re taking their hat off or touching their ear.’ There is absolutely an advantage when you know it’s coming, and those guys can crack the code of which pressure it is based on the safety, based on look, based on tendency, based on the whole Rolodex that Peyton would be able to go through.”

NFL teams are skilled enough to change signals on the fly during a game. The college game doesn’t have that level of sophistication. It’s a more elementary process, but the increase in staff sizes at the FBS level has created more opportunities for bigger programs to engage in it.

One longtime coach who has spent more than two decades as a college defensive coordinator says, “If you sneak in and go to somebody’s practice, it’s unethical. If somebody’s steals my signals, that’s on me. It’s up to you to keep things changed up.”

The coach added that his eyes were opened later in his career when his head coach hired a staffer whose main role was to steal signals. “That was pretty much all he did. He studied a lot of TV copies. That’s where he got most of his stuff. He could get everything — formation and play — and he would have it early. What he told me, and it really resonated, was if you can get three or four calls, that makes a huge difference in the game. It’s all worth it. After that, I realized I gotta hide my signals. It was a big deal to hide everything we did from then on. I don’t think people realize how easy it is to get your signals if you’re not really being discreet.”

Defensive coordinators’ biggest fears are the offense knowing what coverage they are playing. The ready-set-check-with-me teams, which have the quarterback and everybody else except the center look over to the sideline, are the ones that spook defensive staffs the most.

Nothing, though, is more unsettling for a coach than when he suspects the other team is onto them. To that point, if a coach doesn’t expect a former colleague to spill the beans on him, he is kidding himself. NFL teams often debrief new players about their old teams. In college, most of the turnover isn’t player-related, it’s coach-related. And dealing with college kids who don’t play football for a living makes coaches more hesitant to overhaul signals even though they are fully aware of the risk of not doing so.

“You know it when they’ve got you because you start thinking, they’re not that lucky,” says one coach, who said his players came to the sideline shaken after they heard an opponent calling out their code word for a specific blitz. “The players are looking at me like I’ve got three heads.”

---

Our signal stealer stumbled onto this craft in his first year, when he was making next-to-nothing as an entry-level staffer. His role on game day was to sit upstairs in the coaches’ box and call out personnel for the defensive coordinator. He thought to himself, how can I be of more value?

Over the years, he’s developed his methodology. “I’m writing down everything — hand on nose, arm out, hand on top of head. … What is the actual play? Are they signaling numbers in? Or is the signal a word? It’s just about being methodical and matching early what you see and getting confirmation of the little things. I just try to really pay attention and write down notes.”

He’s learned many coaches don’t change their signals. They don’t want to think about extra steps because they have to process and do a lot in a hurry, he says. And they don’t want their players getting bogged down trying to recall things that might not be intuitive.

“It’s a giant math problem,” the coach says. “I can’t help myself doing it a lot of times. It’s a puzzle.”

A three-fingers sign is a common tip for 11 personnel (one running back, one tight end and three wideouts). The Longhorns hand-gesture is common for 12 personnel (one running back, two tight ends, two wideouts). A fist is often used for 21 personnel (two backs, one tight end, two wideouts). “Some teams don’t care about giving you that information, but it can help your call defensively,” the coach says.

Such information, when relayed to the defensive coordinator, can afford him an additional three or four seconds to make his decision. If the offense is going to be in 22 personnel (two running backs and two tight ends), the defense better have some heavy people in the game to counter, whereas against 10 personnel (one back and four wideouts), the defense probably will want to be in nickel or dime.

Boise State, for example, has frustrated rival staffs for years with its mass substitutions on offense, which don’t appear to be signaled in and send defensive coordinators scrambling.

Identifying personnel can be a thankless role that involves repeatedly and furiously counting up bodies.

A former college assistant now coaching in the NFL recalls when a staffer was right on every snap but one. He yelled out “11” but hadn’t noticed that the player who appeared to be a receiver wearing No. 88 was a tight end wearing a scrunched-up No. 83. The defense was playing the pass and got gashed by a power running play.

Pregame recon is a must for a staffer whose duty it is to identify personnel before defensive coordinators make their call: This guy has high socks. That guy has three wristbands on his right arm. That guy has wristbands on both elbows. Seeing who is coming out of the game is just as important as seeing who is coming in. And it is chaotic, especially when the official who is supposed to stand over the ball to give the defense time to match up sometimes doesn’t.

“Shit’s happening so fast,” says one staffer in his late 30s who has spent time at the NFL and college levels. “It ain’t easy.”

Any advance intel is welcome when a team is trying to decipher signals and codes. It can be something detected from an opponent’s previous games or something gleaned from a close coaching peer who has played the opponent.

Technology is making them more vulnerable, too. Cameras and audio quality always are improving, and each season a handful of teams get burned by something that anyone on their couch could pick up if they knew what to look for. Many head coaches have a staffer watch a TV copy of a game broadcast in hopes of matching a gesture with a play. One Power 5 offensive coordinator told The Athletic he studies a TV copy every week to see what he can find. He also said, “I hate when they (TV cameras) pan to us.”

“You’d be shocked what you can get off the TV copy,” a Big 12 defensive coach says.

Some teams have weekly “skunk meetings” in which staffers gather whatever info they can from the TV copy. However, that intel comes with a caveat: If a coach thinks his guys can handle it, use it. If not, just read the keys and play ball.

Still, the former college assistant now working in the NFL calls studying the TV copy “the new signal stealing. It’s like playing poker. How do I know if he has a full house? Does he scratch his face? Everybody has a tell.”

---

College teams have taken pretty extreme measures to cloak how they get their plays in from the sideline — Oregon held up five bedsheets stretched across PVC frames to shield its sideline signalers from Arizona State’s staff in 2015. One of the coaches The Athletic spoke to said his team resorted to holding up towels to try to mask things from its opponent but realized its own players couldn’t see the signals. Just exchanging film has caused some dustups between staffs.

“Because they don’t want you to see their communication, they actually edit the film they send to their opponents so they don’t show them from the sideline communicating to the quarterback,” says the veteran signal stealer who has worked in multiple Power 5 conferences. “Their film guys are taught, ‘Hey, listen, you don’t start this frickin’ edit until we’re at the line.’

“I’ve had head coaches get pissed off because they feel like teams are leaving out motions and stuff. But the ones complaining about that the most are the ones who are probably cheating.”

An offensive coach in the Pac-12 says to throw defenses off the scent during the game, his team has three different signals for some go-to plays. “Defensive guys are paranoid,” he says. “You hit one out-and-up on ’em, and they won’t bite again for another five weeks.”

Deducing who is the live guy — the person sending in the signal for the actual play to be run — is crucial, but it’s not impossible to do. If a team has three signalers, for example, they might not finish their signals at the same time. Based on how the quarterback or offense reacts, it can be discerned which is the live call.

“Figuring out their live guy to me is just common sense,” our signal stealer says. “Some people will change it and mix it up. I think their third-string quarterback probably won’t be live. He’s usually just a dummy guy. The coach needs it to go right. They don’t want to take any delay-of-game penalty. Sometimes, the guy who is live will stand a bit further forward. You can also usually tell from the body language of who the quarterback is looking at or who stops signaling and then the QB turns around. There’s always, always some little tells because they’ve got to communicate it quickly and efficiently. And, those (huge bingo) cards with the four random images are irrelevant 99 percent of the time. It just refers to how fast they wanna go or is a decoy.”

Some teams, conversely, don’t care if their opponent figures out which call is live, because they can’t adjust to it fast enough, he says. “We’re always running into a time constraint for it to be usable information.”

On a sideline, there are all sorts of possible targets. One guy who was charting players didn’t realize he’d been tipping off whether it was a run or pass until later in the season after a buddy on a different team broke the news to him. Run calls are a lot shorter: Green Right 93 Blast. Pass calls are longer: Blue Right, F-Short, Two-Jet, Flanker Drive. “Based on the time you would spend writing, we would have somebody watching you,” he was told, realizing that if defensive coordinators know if the play is a run or a pass, it is an enormous opportunity for them to get an eighth player in the box or play zone coverage.

One 30-something offensive coordinator scoffs at the notion of a defensive coordinator thinking he’s gained an advantage if he knows whether a play is going to be a run or a pass. “Those days are over with all of the RPOs and stuff we give our quarterback,” the offensive coordinator said. “I probably call runs 75 percent of the time (which actually translates into more of a 50-50 balance). I trust our quarterback to get us into the right thing because we spend so much time with him on worst-case scenarios.”

---

Our signal stealer talks to his defensive coordinator over the headset. He doesn’t want the players paying any attention to it — they should just focus on their game process. When he’s pretty sure he has something, he’ll say “ALERT!” and relay what he thinks is coming.

“You’re not gonna be right all the time. It’s the cost of doing business,” he says. “DCs get it. They understand what’s going on. I’ve never had a DC get mad at me. Even if you don’t get what you expect, you still have to be fundamentally sound.

“There’s been numerous times, though, where it’s more trouble than it’s worth. I’ve guessed wrong. You think it’s power and they run counter — ‘Aw, fuck.’ ”

He won’t act on anything within the first series: “I’m pretty analytical,” he says. “I don’t like to make broad statements that early in the game; maybe it’s a common play. I’m gonna let them run it again before I say, ‘Hey, Coach, that’s power.’

“Your data set isn’t big. If you advance scout people, like I’m pretty sure a few programs do, they’ll watch those things to write ’em down to match plays and signals, and it could really help. But if they only run power three times a game, there’s still a little hesitation and doubt.”

Many signals he’s figured out seem fairly intuitive. He’s deduced a team’s signal for running the power play (it relies on a double team at the point of attack and then a lead blocker coming in to clean up any nearby linebacker) when one of the signals punches one hand into the other as if to say, “I’m strong.” Another team’s signal was simulating barbell curls. Another was a flexed biceps pose.

“I’ve gotten power on third-and-short where we’ve had a cross blitz inside against it,” he says. “You match it up with plays you’re expecting from a scouting report.”

A signal he once got for four verts (four receivers running routes straight upfield) was one hand sliding off another upward with palms facing each other, as if taking off. He realized one opponent’s signal for four verts was tapping their wrists, like time to go. Putting a hand in front of one’s face has been used for a screen pass. Pretending to draw a beer from an imaginary tap could be a draw play.

Sometimes it seems just too easy, like when one Power 5 powerhouse drilled another by almost 40 points thanks in part to the rival defensive coordinator’s motioning what looked like a big zero above his head that proved to be a dead giveaway for a zero blitz call (cornerbacks on an island with no deep help).

Detecting when a hard count is coming also is a big plus. One team’s signal for that was looking like they were shivering, arms folded, hands rubbing their biceps to alert Freeze! Freeze! Freeze! “Sometimes, they’d do binoculars with their hands cupped around their eyes — see what the defense is gonna do.” Another was pretending to use a camera and triggering it with their index finger to take a picture.

Another proud moment for our signal stealer was getting an opponent’s call for zone read with a bubble. That was from someone holding their hands lined up with pinkies side to side in front of them, as if they were reading a book.

He is on high alert for double moves. Numerous times he’s noticed a chop-and-go preceded by a sideways tomahawk chop with something like a fist added to the end of it. In those moments, the defensive response is to be in more of a soft coverage and have the secondary play off and not break on the ball.

Defenses are most vulnerable at the start of a drive or after a quarter change, because the offense has 25 players standing around their coaches near the sideline. Who will come out of that pack and onto the line of scrimmage is anyone’s guess.

“It’s the only thing I’d usually give them ahead of time is one verts or double moves,” our signal stealer says. “ ‘Play it soft. If they throw a hitch on you, they get a hitch on you.’ ”

Signal stealing, of course, is a two-way street. Our signal stealer says he thinks that picking up defensive signals probably would be a lot easier than picking up offensive signals. “On D, you have to signal it in a lot faster, so there are a lot of one-signal deals,” he says. “There’s a lot more variables to the offensive side.”

The Pac-12 offensive coach says he’s more worried about his players tipping off a signal in warmups than anything being compromised during the game. “They’re dicking around in pregame and are creatures of habit and don’t even realize they’re doing it,” he says.

In reality, coaches tend to remember the one or two instances when clever detective work led to a game-changing play. What is the cost-benefit of all the effort that goes into it? That probably depends on the quality of work of the person who is doing it.

“The thought of signal stealing is really, really cool, but the practicality of it isn’t all that helpful,” our signal stealer says. “It totally is a game within a game, but sometimes you do wonder if the juice is actually worth the squeeze.”

 

This sounds like us and OU for some reason-

Sometimes it seems just too easy, like when one Power 5 powerhouse drilled another by almost 40 points thanks in part to the rival defensive coordinator’s motioning what looked like a big zero above his head that proved to be a dead giveaway for a zero blitz call (cornerbacks on an island with no deep help).

[Gaffords 774]

8 hours ago, msucolt45 said:

Exactly! Just as a 3B Coach in Baseball, all the signs, but the crucial sign is the “key” to signal the “true sign/signal”. Look at every FB sideline and there are multiple “visual” signs going on, but which one is the “true” one?

Unless Michigan tapped into Rutgers’ headsets, while at the Big House, then the NCAA has NO questionable problem! Hell every team has a GA with binoculars in the PB looking for signs, to see if they can make sense out of the multiple signs shown to the field. It’s all a guessing game!

Hook’em!!!

Big 10 coaches have been complaining about him doing this for a couple of years now.   

It's not hard to key in on the real signal caller within a few plays.   Match up the signals with the plays on the field and code cracked.  

Michigan fans are starting to get unhappy with all the smoke circling Harbaugh.   It reminds me of Jimbo with FSU.  The year after he won his NC, there was already FSU fans  not liking the flies surrounding his program... 

Not all programs care to win at any cost.    *Cough* aggy *cough*

[z009 65]

I'm surprised anyone cares about this. If coaches don't like sign-stealing, use a huddle offense. Otherwise, it's fair game. 

[cmontexas 3,331]

8 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Venables at Clemson was also accused of stealing signals...

 

Rece Davis was on the radio a couple days after RRS and swore that on Ewers first pick that it looked like OU started moving in that direction before the ball was even snapped and he surmised that they had picked up one of our signs

[Iguana 229]

Interesting.  We huddled some late against OU.  I thought it was to help our backup center.  It makes you wonder.

[Juicy 729]

4 hours ago, Gaffords said:

 

Michigan fans are starting to get unhappy with all the smoke circling Harbaugh.  

 

no they aren't. Literally everyone wants a lifetime contract at this point. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,762]

3 hours ago, cmontexas said:

Rece Davis was on the radio a couple days after RRS and swore that on Ewers first pick that it looked like OU started moving in that direction before the ball was even snapped and he surmised that they had picked up one of our signs

Venerables is the guy who has been accused of sign stealing forever. Accused of having a team of GAs dedicated to the task.

[BurntOrange&White 41,650]

22 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Venerables is the guy who has been accused of sign stealing forever. Accused of having a team of GAs dedicated to the task.

Teams that go really fast or huddle have been his achilles heel

Edited October 20, 2023 by BurntOrange&White

[Royale with cheese 1,491]

3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Teams that go really fast or huddle have been his achilles heal. 

 

[BurntOrange&White 41,650]

3 minutes ago, Royale with cheese said:

 

fuck it's early and auto correct got me

[Parliament 14,559]

There are two things here.  

1) Stealing signs in-game.  Likely very common, not against the rules, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

2) Sending agents to other games to steal signs and bring details home.  Probably(?) common?  Clearly against the rules.

Coach Harbaugh stands accused of #2.  Punishment will be meted out.  Likely not a big punishment, and likely not until 2024.

[Bateshorn 9,989]

1 hour ago, Juicy said:

no they aren't. Literally everyone wants a lifetime contract at this point. 

This.  The rapidity at which Michigan fans have thrown their holier than thou attitude over the side for Harbaugh is breathtaking. 

[alincoln 2,390]

Just now, Parliament said:

Punishment will be meted out.  Likely not a big punishment, and likely not until 2024.

Why initiate the investigation now instead of in 10 weeks?  Michigan-TCU makes complete sense now.  A little harder to stop the run when you don't know whether its coming.  Michigan doesn't give up 150 yards on the ground all season and then TCU gouges them for 263.       

[lilMAC25 3,969]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38700739/michigan-staffer-eyed-center-elaborate-scouting-scheme-sources-say

 

 

A low-level staffer with a military background has emerged as one of the linchpins in the NCAA investigation into Michigan's alleged sign-stealing operation, sources told ESPN on Thursday.

Connor Stalions, a football analyst with the Wolverines and a retired captain in the United States Marine Corps, is a person of interest in the investigation into whether No. 2-ranked Michigan violated an NCAA rule by scouting future opponents in person at games, sources said. The NCAA prohibited such scouting in 1994.

Sources said the NCAA enforcement staff's level of interest in Stalions is so significant it sought access to his computer as part of its investigation. Sources indicated that the process is underway, although it's uncertain what investigators will find.

Attempts by ESPN to reach Stalions were not returned. Michigan athletic director Warde Manuel did not return a request seeking comment.

A source told ESPN that the Wolverines have used an "elaborate" scouting system to steal signals from future opponents since at least 2021. With the ongoing NCAA investigation into Michigan recruiting and coach Jim Harbaugh potentially facing additional penalties there, this separate investigation could significantly increase his exposure to additional suspension.

 

In a statement Thursday, Harbaugh denied any knowledge of or involvement in the alleged scheme to steal opponents' signals through scouting trips to out-of-town games. Harbaugh said he would fully cooperate in any investigations and doesn't "condone or tolerate anyone doing anything illegal or against NCAA rules."

"I do not have any knowledge or information regarding the University of Michigan football program illegally stealing signals, nor have I directed any staff member or others to participate in an off-campus scouting assignment," Harbaugh said in the statement.

If the allegations are proven to be true, Michigan would have violated NCAA Bylaw 11.6.1, which states: "Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited."

Michigan and the Big Ten were notified by the NCAA of the investigation Wednesday, and the conference said it had notified the Wolverines' future opponents, including Michigan State, which hosts Michigan in East Lansing on Saturday.

"The Big Ten Conference considers the integrity of competition to be of utmost importance and will continue to monitor the investigation," the conference said in a statement.

Even though Harbaugh said he had no knowledge of the alleged scheme, pursuant to NCAA Bylaw 11.1.2.1, a head coach is "presumed to have knowledge of what is occurring in his program and therefore, can be responsible for the actions of his staff and individuals associated with the program."

Earlier this year, the NCAA "removed the rebuttable presumption from head coach responsibility, making whether the head coach promoted compliance and/or monitored the program relevant to penalty determinations only."

"I have no awareness of anyone on our staff having done that or having directed that action," Harbaugh said in his statement. "No matter what program or organization that I have led throughout my career, my instructions and awareness of how we scout opponents have always been firmly within the rules."

Around Michigan's football building, Stalions is known to technically work in the recruiting department under director of recruiting Albert Karschnia. But a source said it was known in the building that he spent much of his time deciphering opponents' signals, often watching television copies of opponents' games. On Stalions' Instagram page, there are photos of him on the sideline next to two of Michigan's former defensive playcallers, Don Brown and Mike Macdonald.

"He had one role," said a source with knowledge of Michigan's staff.

What is crucial to the NCAA case isn't what Stalions did while breaking down television copies of games to learn and decode opponents' signals. It's whether or not illicit methods were used, which are alleged to include opponent scouting in different venues and was outlawed by the NCAA nearly three decades ago as a cost-cutting measure to bring more equity to the sport.

Sign stealing also violates NCAA rules if a team uses electronic equipment to decipher signals and relay the information to players and coaches. According to the 2023 NCAA football rule book, "any attempt to record, either through audio or video means, any signals given by an opposing player, coach or other team personnel is prohibited."

The allegations against Michigan appear to transcend the normal coach griping about opposing coaches stealing signals, as the depth of the allegations -- and the Big Ten's on-record affirmation of an investigation -- hint at something much more significant.

The allegations have rattled coaches and administrators around the Big Ten.

"This is worse than both the Astros and the Patriots -- it's both use of technology for a competitive advantage and there's allegations that they are filming prior games, not just in-game," a Big Ten source said. "If it was just an in-game situation, that's different. Going and filming somewhere you're not supposed to be. It's illegal. It's too much of an advantage."

Stalions, a graduate of the United States Naval Academy, was hired as an off-field analyst at Michigan in May 2022, according to a bio on his LinkedIn account. In the bio, Stalions wrote that he attempts to "employ Marine Corps philosophies and tactics into the sport of football regarding strategies in staffing, recruiting, scouting, intelligence, planning and more."

Among the skills Stalions wrote about on LinkedIn were "identifying the opponent's most likely course of action and most dangerous course of action" and "identifying and exploiting critical vulnerabilities and centers of gravity in the opponent scouting process."

The son of two Michigan alumni, Stalions enrolled at the Naval Academy and was a student assistant for the Midshipmen from 2013 to 2016. After being commissioned as a second lieutenant in the Marine Corps in 2017, Stalions worked as a graduate assistant at Navy before beginning his military training, according to his LinkedIn account.

While he was stationed at Camp Pendleton in California, Stalions wrote, he served as a volunteer assistant coach at Michigan from May 2015 to May 2022.

"On top of my daily duties as a Logistics Officer leading [40-plus] at a time, I volunteered for the Michigan football staff, flying back [and] forth on my own dime, assisting the defensive staff," Stalions wrote.

In a profile of Stalions on the website Soldiers to Sidelines in January 2022, he said he purchased a house and rented each of the bedrooms on Airbnb, while sleeping on the couch, to help pay for his travel to Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Stalions retired as a captain in the Marine Corps in May 2022 and joined Michigan's staff as an off-field analyst.

Harbaugh already faces NCAA charges of failure to cooperate and head coach responsibility related to alleged recruiting violations during the COVID-19 dead period. A violation by a member of his coaching staff could trigger another charge of head coach responsibility, which could be a Level I violation.

The NCAA Committee on Infractions rejected a four-game negotiated suspension for Harbaugh in the recruiting case, and Michigan self-imposed a three-game suspension. With that case still needing to be resolved, an additional head coach responsibility charge based on alleged signal stealing would significantly increase his exposure to additional punishment, including a longer suspension.

Michigan still is facing four Level II violations, which are considered less serious, from those alleged violations. The NCAA is not expected to announce a ruling in that case until 2024.

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by lilMAC25

[Parliament 14,559]

26 minutes ago, alincoln said:

Why initiate the investigation now instead of in 10 weeks?  Michigan-TCU makes complete sense now.  A little harder to stop the run when you don't know whether its coming.  Michigan doesn't give up 150 yards on the ground all season and then TCU gouges them for 263.       

So teams they play the rest of the season can change their gameplan? 

[VABuckeye 2,481]

14 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Pretty sure it's known to occur - you just can't film or use electronic means to steal. 

The crux oif this is that you can't send a scout to another game with the express purpose of stealing signs then tying those signs to the plays on the field.

[Wally Fairway 5,664]

56 minutes ago, Royale with cheese said:

 

finominle

[Bateshorn 9,989]

I assume every team quietly does this.  I’m sure there’s an alumni at just about every opponents game who happens to have his iPhone out during offensive series and taping the game.  That video then just happens to end up in the coaches hands. Some GA then locks themselves in a basement office and goes over the tape.

That Harbaugh would be arrogant enough to do it so openly and brazenly also doesn’t surprise me at all. 

[ChiTownDoc 21,323]

7 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

The crux oif this is that you can't send a scout to another game with the express purpose of stealing signs then tying those signs to the plays on the field.

I just hate Harbaugh.  Makes you guys likable.   Almost.  

[Pam Cummings 9,823]

Thats kinda weird that youre allowed to use videotape and broadcast footage to steal the signs but sending a guy to do it is illegal.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,762]

I'm all for blatant sign stealing. It's a dumb rule that is way behind the times. I have a hard time believing most teams aren't doing it in some form or fashion. They tried to get helmet comms for college but not surprisingly some SEC coaches were against it... only reason I can think they would be against it is they think they are better at stealing signs that their opponents.

[Parliament 14,559]

25 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I’m sure there’s an alumni at just about every opponents game who happens to have his iPhone out during offensive series and taping the game.  That video then just happens to end up in the coaches hands. Some GA then locks themselves in a basement office and goes over the tape.

 

Sending it to a GA might get you looped into the same rule.  Just post it on Twitter late on Friday.  Let the GA get it from there.  

22 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Thats kinda weird that youre allowed to use videotape and broadcast footage to steal the signs but sending a guy to do it is illegal.

Weird rule, but a clear rule.  And rules must be enforced.

21 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

It's a dumb rule that is way behind the times.

Old rules that don't make the game less watchable, or risk player safety are cool.  There's a simple fix to all this: sub one player every time, and have him walk the play to the huddle.  Can't steal that.

[Bateshorn 9,989]

9 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Sending it to a GA might get you looped into the same rule.  Just post it on Twitter late on Friday.  Let the GA get it from there.  

Weird rule, but a clear rule.  And rules must be enforced.

Old rules that don't make the game less watchable, or risk player safety are cool.  There's a simple fix to all this: sub one player every time, and have him walk the play to the huddle.  Can't steal that.

The Twitter idea is genius. 
 

subbing allows the defense to sub.  That’s part of the reason the sign system has arisen: it’s a way to get the play in and keep pressure on the D. 
 

Im also not surprised that Schiano was too dumb to change his indicator sign from series to series.  Arrogant fool.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Bateshorn

[Treefidy 1,504]

6 hours ago, z009 said:

I'm surprised anyone cares about this. If coaches don't like sign-stealing, use a huddle offense. Otherwise, it's fair game. 

Some modern theory (HUNH) feasts off getting defensive personnel into conflict with mismatches and wearing them out through not allowing substitutions.  If you’re running a huddle offense without signals that means you’re sending the call in which lets the defense adjust personnel and spell winded players.  

[Evil Bill Obrien 3,493]

1 hour ago, lilMAC25 said:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38700739/michigan-staffer-eyed-center-elaborate-scouting-scheme-sources-say

 

  Reveal hidden contents

A low-level staffer with a military background has emerged as one of the linchpins in the NCAA investigation into Michigan's alleged sign-stealing operation, sources told ESPN on Thursday.

Connor Stalions, a football analyst with the Wolverines and a retired captain in the United States Marine Corps, is a person of interest in the investigation into whether No. 2-ranked Michigan violated an NCAA rule by scouting future opponents in person at games, sources said. The NCAA prohibited such scouting in 1994.

Sources said the NCAA enforcement staff's level of interest in Stalions is so significant it sought access to his computer as part of its investigation. Sources indicated that the process is underway, although it's uncertain what investigators will find.

Attempts by ESPN to reach Stalions were not returned. Michigan athletic director Warde Manuel did not return a request seeking comment.

A source told ESPN that the Wolverines have used an "elaborate" scouting system to steal signals from future opponents since at least 2021. With the ongoing NCAA investigation into Michigan recruiting and coach Jim Harbaugh potentially facing additional penalties there, this separate investigation could significantly increase his exposure to additional suspension.

 

In a statement Thursday, Harbaugh denied any knowledge of or involvement in the alleged scheme to steal opponents' signals through scouting trips to out-of-town games. Harbaugh said he would fully cooperate in any investigations and doesn't "condone or tolerate anyone doing anything illegal or against NCAA rules."

"I do not have any knowledge or information regarding the University of Michigan football program illegally stealing signals, nor have I directed any staff member or others to participate in an off-campus scouting assignment," Harbaugh said in the statement.

If the allegations are proven to be true, Michigan would have violated NCAA Bylaw 11.6.1, which states: "Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited."

Michigan and the Big Ten were notified by the NCAA of the investigation Wednesday, and the conference said it had notified the Wolverines' future opponents, including Michigan State, which hosts Michigan in East Lansing on Saturday.

"The Big Ten Conference considers the integrity of competition to be of utmost importance and will continue to monitor the investigation," the conference said in a statement.

Even though Harbaugh said he had no knowledge of the alleged scheme, pursuant to NCAA Bylaw 11.1.2.1, a head coach is "presumed to have knowledge of what is occurring in his program and therefore, can be responsible for the actions of his staff and individuals associated with the program."

Earlier this year, the NCAA "removed the rebuttable presumption from head coach responsibility, making whether the head coach promoted compliance and/or monitored the program relevant to penalty determinations only."

"I have no awareness of anyone on our staff having done that or having directed that action," Harbaugh said in his statement. "No matter what program or organization that I have led throughout my career, my instructions and awareness of how we scout opponents have always been firmly within the rules."

Around Michigan's football building, Stalions is known to technically work in the recruiting department under director of recruiting Albert Karschnia. But a source said it was known in the building that he spent much of his time deciphering opponents' signals, often watching television copies of opponents' games. On Stalions' Instagram page, there are photos of him on the sideline next to two of Michigan's former defensive playcallers, Don Brown and Mike Macdonald.

"He had one role," said a source with knowledge of Michigan's staff.

What is crucial to the NCAA case isn't what Stalions did while breaking down television copies of games to learn and decode opponents' signals. It's whether or not illicit methods were used, which are alleged to include opponent scouting in different venues and was outlawed by the NCAA nearly three decades ago as a cost-cutting measure to bring more equity to the sport.

Sign stealing also violates NCAA rules if a team uses electronic equipment to decipher signals and relay the information to players and coaches. According to the 2023 NCAA football rule book, "any attempt to record, either through audio or video means, any signals given by an opposing player, coach or other team personnel is prohibited."

The allegations against Michigan appear to transcend the normal coach griping about opposing coaches stealing signals, as the depth of the allegations -- and the Big Ten's on-record affirmation of an investigation -- hint at something much more significant.

The allegations have rattled coaches and administrators around the Big Ten.

"This is worse than both the Astros and the Patriots -- it's both use of technology for a competitive advantage and there's allegations that they are filming prior games, not just in-game," a Big Ten source said. "If it was just an in-game situation, that's different. Going and filming somewhere you're not supposed to be. It's illegal. It's too much of an advantage."

Stalions, a graduate of the United States Naval Academy, was hired as an off-field analyst at Michigan in May 2022, according to a bio on his LinkedIn account. In the bio, Stalions wrote that he attempts to "employ Marine Corps philosophies and tactics into the sport of football regarding strategies in staffing, recruiting, scouting, intelligence, planning and more."

Among the skills Stalions wrote about on LinkedIn were "identifying the opponent's most likely course of action and most dangerous course of action" and "identifying and exploiting critical vulnerabilities and centers of gravity in the opponent scouting process."

The son of two Michigan alumni, Stalions enrolled at the Naval Academy and was a student assistant for the Midshipmen from 2013 to 2016. After being commissioned as a second lieutenant in the Marine Corps in 2017, Stalions worked as a graduate assistant at Navy before beginning his military training, according to his LinkedIn account.

While he was stationed at Camp Pendleton in California, Stalions wrote, he served as a volunteer assistant coach at Michigan from May 2015 to May 2022.

"On top of my daily duties as a Logistics Officer leading [40-plus] at a time, I volunteered for the Michigan football staff, flying back [and] forth on my own dime, assisting the defensive staff," Stalions wrote.

In a profile of Stalions on the website Soldiers to Sidelines in January 2022, he said he purchased a house and rented each of the bedrooms on Airbnb, while sleeping on the couch, to help pay for his travel to Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Stalions retired as a captain in the Marine Corps in May 2022 and joined Michigan's staff as an off-field analyst.

Harbaugh already faces NCAA charges of failure to cooperate and head coach responsibility related to alleged recruiting violations during the COVID-19 dead period. A violation by a member of his coaching staff could trigger another charge of head coach responsibility, which could be a Level I violation.

The NCAA Committee on Infractions rejected a four-game negotiated suspension for Harbaugh in the recruiting case, and Michigan self-imposed a three-game suspension. With that case still needing to be resolved, an additional head coach responsibility charge based on alleged signal stealing would significantly increase his exposure to additional punishment, including a longer suspension.

Michigan still is facing four Level II violations, which are considered less serious, from those alleged violations. The NCAA is not expected to announce a ruling in that case until 2024.

 

"This is worse than both the Astros and the Patriots -- it's both use of technology for a competitive advantage and there's allegations that they are filming prior games, not just in-game," a Big Ten source said. "If it was just an in-game situation, that's different. Going and filming somewhere you're not supposed to be. It's illegal. It's too much of an advantage."

 

 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,762]

35 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Sending it to a GA might get you looped into the same rule.  Just post it on Twitter late on Friday.  Let the GA get it from there.  

Weird rule, but a clear rule.  And rules must be enforced.

Old rules that don't make the game less watchable, or risk player safety are cool.  There's a simple fix to all this: sub one player every time, and have him walk the play to the huddle.  Can't steal that.

It's just another rule designed to protect the "poor" but instead just favors the "rich" that can afford to find ways around it. Just add the helmet comms like NFL did 30 years ago.

[BabaYaga 15,532]

3 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Just add the helmet comms like NFL did 30 years ago.

I always wished you could buy player helmet-cam packages ala Nascar.  Not coach/player interactions/plays, but individual players like you have in the NFL.  

[4th&Five 41,904]

 

[ClubWhatever 12,277]

More from ESPN article

 

in May 2022, according to a bio on his LinkedIn account. In the bio, Stalions wrote that he attempts to "employ Marine Corps philosophies and tactics into the sport of football regarding strategies in staffing, recruiting, scouting, intelligence, planning and more."

Among the skills Stalions wrote about on LinkedIn were "identifying the opponent's most likely course of action and most dangerous course of action" and "identifying and exploiting critical vulnerabilities and centers of gravity in the opponent scouting process."

[lilMAC25 3,969]

17 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

These pics are of him on the Michigan sideline. How’s he elsewhere scouting other teams live, and on the sidelines at the same time?

Edited October 20, 2023 by lilMAC25