Jim Harbaugh NO LONGER coaches at Michigan

[Hiphopopotamos 21,158]

 

[Francisco 2.0 32,543]

3 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

 

 

 

Story here:

 

Spoiler

Connor Stalions, the suspended Michigan staffer at the center of the NCAA's sign-stealing probe, purchased tickets in his own name for more than 30 games over the last three years at 11 different Big Ten schools, sources at 11 different league schools told ESPN.

The scope of the University of Michigan's alleged sign-stealing operation includes both video evidence of electronics prohibited by the NCAA to steal signs and a significant paper trail, sources told ESPN. Stalions forwarded the tickets he bought to at least three different people in different areas of the country, sources say, which hints at the breadth of the operation.

The NCAA is expected to receive video evidence this week of illegal technology used in scouting tied to tickets purchased by Stalions, according to sources. An opposing Big Ten school looked up in-stadium surveillance video from a game earlier this year, and sources said the person in the seat of the ticket purchased by Stalions held his smart phone up and appeared to film the home team's sideline the entire game.

Sources confirmed to ESPN that Stalions purchased tickets on both sides of the stadium -- across from each bench -- for Ohio State's game with Penn State on Saturday. Michigan plays both teams in upcoming weeks. According to sources, the tickets purchased by Stalions were not used on Saturday. Stalions' name emerged publicly in an ESPN story on Friday. He was suspended with pay by Michigan.

None of the tickets that the 11 schools told ESPN about involved Michigan as an opponent, per sources. The games involved either one or both of the teams that the Wolverines were playing later that year, according to sources.

Stalions did not respond to ESPN's request for comment. Michigan did not return multiple requests for comment by phone and text.

Michigan on Monday reiterated that it is unable to comment further due to the ongoing investigation.

Michigan is now ranked No. 2 in the AP poll, looking for its third consecutive trip to the College Football Playoff and is the current betting favorite to win the national title.

Sources indicated that Stalions forwarded tickets to at least three other individuals, with the ticket transfer showing up through ticket data tracking. Those tickets were used to get in the game by individuals other than Stalions, including the one in the video the NCAA is expected to receive.

Sources told ESPN last week of an "elaborate" scouting system, and that appears to be emerging less than a week after Yahoo Sports first reported that the NCAA was investigating Michigan's scouting. Stalions often purchased the tickets with his own credit card, according to sources. The sources added that tickets at multiple venues were bought via the online retailers like StubHub or SeatGeek.

The ticket purchases fall into a seat location pattern -- somewhere around the 45-yard line and raised up enough for a clear view of the opposite sideline.

One source told ESPN Stalions bought tickets to five different games at that school over the past three years. Another said it was four games over the past two years. A third source said it was nine games over the last three years. Some of the purchases were single tickets, others were for multiple people and sometimes seats were bought on both sides of the stadium near midfield.

One source said Stalions bought some tickets across from the home sideline in order to scout the home team, which Michigan played that year. But the source added there's also been tickets purchased on the other side of the stadium facing the sideline of the opponent, including one purchase across from the visiting sideline in the weeks before Michigan played Ohio State.

In the back half of last season, for example, tickets were bought by Stalions on both sidelines for one league game where Michigan had both opponents remaining on the schedule.

Officials around the Big Ten are upset, according to sources, as allegations of this type of coordinated and orchestrated capturing of signals looms as distinctly different allegations than the gamesmanship of attempting to de-code signals from across the sideline (in-game stealing is not prohibited under NCAA rules).

The alleged evidence of the signals being captured on film means the Wolverines could now face more scrutiny for violating an additional NCAA rule.

The first NCAA rule in question is scouting in opposing stadiums, which has been in place since 1994. The second potential rule being broken, evidence of which had not been reported prior, could mean that Michigan violated Article 11 subsection H of the NCAA football rulebook: "Any attempt to record, either through audio or video means, any signals given by an opposing player, coach or other team personnel is prohibited."

It's uncertain who was funding the purchases. Stallions makes $55,000 per year, according to the University of Michigan's Website. But the operation included thousands of dollars in ticket sales and the cost of travel to the stadiums.

Even if the school doesn't sell the ticket directly, it can electronically trace the tickets to their home games, sources said, including the time the person entered. School officials around the Big Ten began to trace Stalions' purchases on Friday, soon after ESPN named Stalions as a person of interest in the NCAA's probe early Friday morning (sources said the NCAA has interest in his computer as part of the investigation).

The schools began discovering Stalions had bought the tickets himself, and it raised suspicions because either the home school or visitors were future Michigan opponents. Stalions is a retired captain in the United States Marine Corps who bragged on LinkedIn of his knack for "identifying and exploiting critical vulnerabilities and centers of gravity in the opponent scouting process." He'd been a volunteer at Michigan, according to LinkedIn, from 2015 to 2022 before being hired full time in May 2022.

Soon after ESPN identified him as a central part of the probe, he erased multiple social media accounts.

Michigan, which was already amid an NCAA investigation for alleged illegal recruiting during the COVID-19 recruiting dead period, has pledged full cooperation with the latest investigation. There's no precedent to indicate what any potential punishment would be for Michigan or coach Jim Harbaugh, as NCAA enforcement has never seen a case of this scope in signal stealing.

The allegations against Michigan could be greater than what got the New England Patriots in trouble during the SpyGate scandal that unfolded during the 2007 season. The crux of those allegations revolved around in-game taping of opponents' signals during Patriots games.

The potential of these allegations being added to the NCAA case could increase coach Jim Harbaugh's exposure to punishment by the NCAA's head coach responsibility rules, which essentially state the head coach is responsible for everything that happens in his program, whether they are aware of it or not.

Michigan coach Jim Harbaugh said after Michigan's 49-0 win over Michigan State: "There's been stuff. There's been attempts to diminish the team in a lot of ways, starting with the easy schedule. They just play."

Last week, he denied "illegally stealing signals" in a statement.

"I do not have any knowledge or information regarding the University of Michigan football program illegally stealing signals, nor have I directed any staff member or others to participate in an off-campus scouting assignment," he said on Thursday. "I have no awareness of anyone on our staff having done that or having directed that action.

Michigan has a bye this week before playing Purdue at home on Nov. 4.

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Francisco 2.0

[4th&Five 41,904]

[Francisco 2.0 32,543]

He made $55000 a year.

He used his own card for the tickets.

It's not a huge stretch to believe he was reimbursed from the athletic department.  Or, maybe a booster.  At any rate, this is going to leave a mark.

[locodos 5,583]

I'm sure that the guy making 55k was just eating the cost of the tickets.  Lulz michigan you cheatin' bastidges

[MrBig 5,602]

These young people have to use their credit cards to benefit from the rewards points. 

[Francisco 2.0 32,543]

5 minutes ago, locodos said:

I'm sure that the guy making 55k was just eating the cost of the tickets.  Lulz michigan you cheatin' bastidges

 

Tickets between the 45-50, higher up in the stands with a clear view...and sometimes, tickets on both sides of the field (hell, last Saturday's game at Ohio State-Penn State he purchased tickets).

On the open market, how much would those tickets have cost between two top 5 teams?

 

Quote

Sources confirmed to ESPN that Stalions purchased tickets on both sides of the stadium -- across from each bench -- for Ohio State's game with Penn State on Saturday. Michigan plays both teams in upcoming weeks. According to sources, the tickets purchased by Stalions were not used on Saturday. 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Francisco 2.0

[Brothahorn 10,096]

They still have Big Boys?

[HtownHorn 15,243]

1 minute ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

Tickets between the 45-50, higher up in the stands with a clear view...and sometimes, tickets on both sides of the field (hell, last Saturday's game at Ohio State-Penn State he purchased tickets).

On the open market, how much would those tickets have cost between two top 5 teams?

 

Easily in the $1000s.

[locodos 5,583]

1 minute ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

Tickets between the 45-50, higher up in the stands with a clear view...and sometimes, tickets on both sides of the field (hell, last Saturday's game at Ohio State-Penn State he purchased tickets).

On the open market, how much would those tickets have cost between two top 5 teams?

 

Did he fly to some games or just drive there and back?  It starts to add up and 55k to live off of doesn't leave a lot of discretionary income.  Maybe they find out a booster was doing more than reimbursing...maybe some suplimental income...  oh hello intuitional control!

[Francisco 2.0 32,543]

Just now, locodos said:

Did he fly to some games or just drive there and back?  It starts to add up and 55k to live off of doesn't leave a lot of discretionary income.  Maybe they find out a booster was doing more than reimbursing...maybe some suplimental income...  oh hello intuitional control!

I don't believe he attended any of the games.  From the article:

 

Quote

Sources indicated that Stalions forwarded tickets to at least three other individuals, with the ticket transfer showing up through ticket data tracking. Those tickets were used to get in the game by individuals other than Stalions, including the one in the video the NCAA is expected to receive.

 

But at the same time, you have to assume these people either did it for the love of Michigan football.....or were reimbursed for their travel expenses.

 

 

[4th&Five 41,904]

1 minute ago, locodos said:

Did he fly to some games or just drive there and back?  It starts to add up and 55k to live off of doesn't leave a lot of discretionary income.  Maybe they find out a booster was doing more than reimbursing...maybe some suplimental income...  oh hello intuitional control!

It wasn’t just him. 

“Sources indicated that Stalions forwarded tickets to at least three other individuals, with the ticket transfer showing up through ticket data tracking. Those tickets were used to get in the game by individuals other than Stalions, including the one in the video the NCAA is expected to receive.”

[ClubWhatever 12,277]

College students will do anything for a free ticket and a steak burrito. Michigan fans or not.  

[WinningIsHard 4,171]

I seem to recall hearing some similar grumblings about venables over the years, stealing signs at oklahoma and clemson while he was DC. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,762]

Apparently on the Penn State vs Ohio State tickets he bought on both sides of the stadium went unused...  That is even more incriminating.

[Evil Bill Obrien 3,493]

36 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

 

Would think he would at least use a fake name to buy all these tickets just so it isn't so easy to track everything down...

[Laxtonto 13,013]

8 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Apparently on the Penn State vs Ohio State tickets he bought on both sides of the stadium went unused...  That is even more incriminating.

How much would a ticket between the 45s in the lower bowl cost for Saturdays OSU/PSU game?

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,762]

4 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

How much would a ticket between the 45s in the lower bowl cost for Saturdays OSU/PSU game?

around $1k each

[Francisco 2.0 32,543]

So, in 2019 Harbaugh was 9-4.  2020 Harbaugh was 2-4.  Covid, so you can take that into consideration.  Here's the season by season record:

2015 10-3

2016 10-3

2017 8-5

2018 10-3

2019 9-4

2020 2-4

 

But beginning in 2021, Harbaugh was 12-2.  Last year was 13-1.  And this year 5-0.  Including beating OSU the past 2 seasons.

And the staffer has been buying tickets for (including this season) 3 seasons now.

Completely coincidental. 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Francisco 2.0

[Butch Had Not 3,053]

Don't worry all,  Michigan will have to vacate a bunch of wins in 5 years when this "investigation" wraps up. 

Hit them where it hurts.

[closetojumping 65,246]

1 minute ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

So, in 2019 Harbaugh was 9-4.  2020 Harbaugh was 2-4.  Covid, so you can take that into consideration.

 

But beginning in 2021, Harbaugh was 12-2.  Last year was 13-1.  And this year 5-0.  Including beating OSU the past 2 seasons.

And the staffer has been buying tickets for (including this season) 3 seasons now.

Completely coincidental. 

 

What makes me laugh are the people who have reacted with "no big deal". Uh, no. This is on par with what the Astros were doing in many ways, and they continue to be villified for it years later. It also caused multiple people to lose their jobs and the loss of key assets (draft picks) to boot.

If Michigan is scaling spying to traveling to video multiple opponents for multiple weeks and then paying fucking codecrackers to solve for it and then using it during games, then that is nothing to wave away. That should be something that gets people fired, including Harbaugh, and has them vacating records, losing scholarships and playoff/bowl eligibility.

If some other school is caught doing it, they should have the same punishment. I know Texas doesn't do it since they don't even self-scout and haven't since the Royal era. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,913]

The NCAA will get to the bottom of this. I hear the boys down at the crime lab are working over time. They have them working in shifts.

[WinningIsHard 4,171]

14 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

So, in 2019 Harbaugh was 9-4.  2020 Harbaugh was 2-4.  Covid, so you can take that into consideration.  Here's the season by season record:

2015 10-3

2016 10-3

2017 8-5

2018 10-3

2019 9-4

2020 2-4

 

But beginning in 2021, Harbaugh was 12-2.  Last year was 13-1.  And this year 5-0.  Including beating OSU the past 2 seasons.

And the staffer has been buying tickets for (including this season) 3 seasons now.

Completely coincidental. 

 

@immamac was just telling people that Sark and Co. need to be more like the Michigan staff. 

[immamac 44,199]

4 minutes ago, WinningIsHard said:

@immamac was just telling people that Sark and Co. need to be more like the Michigan staff. 

8-5 worst season out of the last 8 and 2CFP appearances and 3 more NY6? Yep sign me the fuck up for that. 

[ClubWhatever 12,277]

I'm sure some CEO coach / control freak is going to let some kid tell his DC and OC stuff between plays without knowing shit about what it is.  Yep.  

[Chooky 13,337]

Connor Stalions made it even more insulting by wearing a lampshade over his head in the stands. 

[WinningIsHard 4,171]

1 minute ago, immamac said:

8-5 worst season out of the last 8 and 2CFP appearances and 3 more NY6? Yep sign me the fuck up for that. 

I actually like Michigan, so it pained me to type that but you are very critical of Sark and it's probably not warranted all the time. I needed to point out that this example here is why Texas has trouble getting over that fucking hump, we don't cheat. Michigan usually doesn't cheat, so they apparently are terrible at it. I don't want to kick you while you are down though. Carry on. 

[Parliament 14,559]

Yeah the investigation will last a long time, but Michigan is gonna push Harbaugh out for this.

[Laxtonto 13,013]

23 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

What makes me laugh are the people who have reacted with "no big deal". Uh, no. This is on par with what the Astros were doing in many ways, and they continue to be villified for it years later. It also caused multiple people to lose their jobs and the loss of key assets (draft picks) to boot.

If Michigan is scaling spying to traveling to video multiple opponents for multiple weeks and then paying fucking codecrackers to solve for it and then using it during games, then that is nothing to wave away. That should be something that gets people fired, including Harbaugh, and has them vacating records, losing scholarships and playoff/bowl eligibility.

If some other school is caught doing it, they should have the same punishment. I know Texas doesn't do it since they don't even self-scout and haven't since the Royal era. 

 

For people not understanding why is such a big deal, let me break it down a bit more.

This is how I would do it from a brute-force approach. Take a full game-long recording of both sidelines and then get the all 22 recording on that game. Put the video of one team sideline on one screen and the all 22 on the other. Start with one sideline video.  For every D or O alignment look at the placards or signs sent in and then match it to the formation and play/route tree. By the end of the game you should be able to figure out any play that has been called 3 or 4 times. Also, look for how/when audibles come in and if they are decoy calls that were pre-planned shifts as a disguise on both O and D. This should allow you full team set of signals. Then do the same thing for the other team.

Once you have "decoded" the signs then watch the next set of film or even just any game that shows playcalls and the sidelines against that team to confirm their signs and you have successfully broken their calls. When it comes to gameday, you set whoever is the sign steal guy with a view of the opposing signal caller and then decipher calls in real-time. On D you set up in a base and then look to the sideline to adjust. On O you can call then audible from the sideline.

All it really would take is once you break the code to set up a call sheet of what calls are blitzes and where they are coming from and be set to audible. On D it is even easier just by being able to prepare for run vs pass, especially on short yardage and down-specific criteria. Talk about an insane advantage.. You know if it is a run or pass most plays. Know when a trick play is called (wouldn't be in the dataset of play calls and so its an instant tipoff). Know when they are going to blitz and to which side.. a play caller like Sark would destroy a team with that type of knowledge.

This is a brute force approach that once you have the video could be done by a group of GAs in a few days or so. Hard part would be making sure you have the camera in the right spot all game and the it is purely a mechanism of just charting calls, formations, and plays. Should be easy to break with little heavy effort.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Laxtonto

[Steel Shank 9,533]

Anything that helps increase the chances of our kicking their asses next year is fine by me! lol!!

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,762]

7 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

 

For people not understanding why is such a big deal, let me break it down a bit more.

This is how I would do it from a brute-force approach. Take a full game-long recording of both sidelines and then get the all 22 recording on that game. Put the video of one team sideline on one screen and the all 22 on the other. Start with one sideline video.  For every D or O alignment look at the placards or signs sent in and then match it to the formation and play/route tree. By the end of the game you should be able to figure out any play that has been called 3 or 4 times. Also, look for how/when audibles come in and if they are decoy calls that were pre-planned shifts as a disguise on both O and D. This should allow you full team set of signals. Then do the same thing for the other team.

Once you have "decoded" the signs then watch the next set of film or even just any game that shows playcalls and the sidelines against that team to confirm their signs and you have successfully broken their calls. When it comes to gameday, you set whoever is the sign steal guy with a view of the opposing signal caller and then decipher calls in real-time. On D you set up in a base and then look to the sideline to adjust. On O you can call then audible from the sideline.

All it really would take is once you break the code to set up a call sheet of what calls are blitzes and where they are coming from and be set to audible. On D it is even easier just by being able to prepare for run vs pass, especially on short yardage and down-specific criteria. Talk about an insane advantage.. You know if it is a run or pass most plays. Know when a trick play is called (wouldn't be in the dataset of play calls and so its an instant tipoff). Know when they are going to blitz and to which side.. a play caller like Sark would destroy a team with that type of knowledge.

This is a brute force approach that once you have the video could be done by a group of GAs in a few days or so. Hard part would be making sure you have the camera in the right spot all game and the it is purely a mechanism of just charting calls, formations, and plays. Should be easy to break with little heavy effort.

 

 

Also been mentioned that a lot of the hurry up tempo teams that then sometimes wait and look back to the sideline for new calls would benefit greatly from being able to get not just a read of the defensive alignment, but also a quick look at defensive signals before possibly making adjustments or just running called play.

[The Dog 44,771]

1 hour ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

Would think he would at least use a fake name to buy all these tickets just so it isn't so easy to track everything down...

Seriously how fucking stupid is this guy? 

Using his own credit card and buying the tickets in his own name? 

Just get some dang Visa gift cards to do the purchase at least and have the receipt sent to a burner email account. 

There's no way Harbaugh didn't know about this and he deserves to get burned. Wow.

[Wilcox Cummingtonite 3,543]

Harbaugh thinks he can get away with pretty much anything. He probably can and will.

[Laxtonto 13,013]

8 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

tempo teams that then sometimes wait and look back to the sideline for new calls would benefit greatly from being able to get not just a read of the defensive alignment, but also a quick look at defensive signals before possibly making adjustments or just running called play.

This is probably true for both O and D. Go tempo and do the sideline look to pick the route tree or heaven forbid setup a perfectly timed running play. On D set in base and then know to crash the line if it is an interior run or prepare for something sideline to sideline. Knowing the signals even 15 seconds before the snap would have a major impact on the game.

[Hiphopopotamos 21,158]

As a Bears fan I welcome the NCAA making an example of Jim Harbaugh.

[closetojumping 65,246]

3 minutes ago, Wilcox Cummingtonite said:

Harbaugh thinks he can get away with pretty much anything. He probably can and will.

This may not be that. People that keep referring to the old NCAA slap on the wrist shit aren't paying attention here. 

1) This is "integrity of the game" shit. It's not a wild ass bagman story where assholes can chuckle and say "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'!" This is Pete Rose betting on MLB games or the Astros stealing signs with a paid codecracker and cameras. It's ruining the actual competitiveness of the sport.

2) Other major powers in the Big 10, if not spanning the landscape, are fucking pissed off about this. Ohio State is very interested in seeing this investigated thoroughly and, if evidence creates certainty about the past few years, they're going to want blood. These things matter with a coward, and the NCAA is a coward as an organization.

3) There is actionable evidence, allegedly. If the evidence exists and the NCAA has the support of member institutions, they're not going to need to sit around on this for years and worry over testimony and depositions.

4) Michigan itself is going to face the prospect of needing to do something to save face if this keeps getting worse. They can't waive it off and have quirky Coach Harbaugh skipping a few shitty games while everyone laughs. 

5) Harbaugh was defiant with regard to the last NCAA investigation and made fools of them. This is a vindictive org. If they have a chance to take a kill shot here, they're going to want to do it. 

The only difference here between some of the other cheating scandals and this one is the lack of a commissioner with sweeping powers at his discretion. Maybe that is enough for the NCAA to be the eunuch folks expect. If the evidence is really there, it should be interesting to see how much the threat of a lawsuit from Michigan causes restraint. 

[Helobious 9,755]

Imagine stealing signs to gain an edge on stopping the average big 10 offense. 

[Laxtonto 13,013]

This is closer to the potential domino effect that I expect this could lead to. If he wasn't reimbursed by the school, then who did and were they Michigan boosters? This could be extremely toxic for anyone remotely close to it.

[BurntOrange&White 41,652]

7 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

This may not be that. People that keep referring to the old NCAA slap on the wrist shit aren't paying attention here. 

1) This is "integrity of the game" shit. It's not a wild ass bagman story where assholes can chuckle and say "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'!" This is Pete Rose betting on MLB games or the Astros stealing signs with a paid codecracker and cameras. It's ruining the actual competitiveness of the sport.

2) Other major powers in the Big 10, if not spanning the landscape, are fucking pissed off about this. Ohio State is very interested in seeing this investigated thoroughly and, if evidence creates certainty about the past few years, they're going to want blood. These things matter with a coward, and the NCAA is a coward as an organization.

3) There is actionable evidence, allegedly. If the evidence exists and the NCAA has the support of member institutions, they're not going to need to sit around on this for years and worry over testimony and depositions.

4) Michigan itself is going to face the prospect of needing to do something to save face if this keeps getting worse. They can't waive it off and have quirky Coach Harbaugh skipping a few shitty games while everyone laughs. 

5) Harbaugh was defiant with regard to the last NCAA investigation and made fools of them. This is a vindictive org. If they have a chance to take a kill shot here, they're going to want to do it. 

The only difference here between some of the other cheating scandals and this one is the lack of a commissioner with sweeping powers at his discretion. Maybe that is enough for the NCAA to be the eunuch folks expect. If the evidence is really there, it should be interesting to see how much the threat of a lawsuit from Michigan causes restraint. 

I tend to agree with your points. This isn’t just stealing them during a game.  This is full blown Houston astros sign stealing-esque 

[Laxtonto 13,013]

 

[Laxtonto 13,013]

Lots of people willing to dig on Meatchicken because of dickhead Harbaugh

Lots of crazy stats in this thread about their performance in this timeframe.. need to look at Dabo'/Venables as well..

 

 

[UTGrad98 2,331]

The big 10 should kick them out and the ncaa should make them join the pac 12 starting in 2024.

[The Dog 44,771]

Maybe this gets the NCAA out of the stone age and they put radios in QB helmets like the NFL does. We got pitchcom out of the Astros scandal.

[PittsburghTiger 6,320]

10 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

 

Is that the guy?

5 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Maybe this gets the NCAA out of the stone age and they put radios in QB helmets like the NFL does. We got pitchcom out of the Astros scandal.

I heard that could be coming next year.

[Laxtonto 13,013]

 

Staples is a douchebag but a decent quick 5 minutes on what this means

[MontereyMX 922]

10 minutes ago, UTGrad98 said:

The big 10 should kick them out and the ncaa should make them join the pac 12 starting in 2024.

why wait?? 

[The Dog 44,771]

 

[Francisco 2.0 32,543]

The TCU game makes more sense now, for two reasons.

The Stallion may not have contemplated getting tix for a TCU game, because reasons. And TCU ran at fast tempo last year, so even if they had the signs, the pace they played at could offset that.  Playing either ultra fast or huddling can negate sign stealing.

 

Also, this theory from some rando makes sense:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Francisco 2.0

[gernblansten 3,254]

34 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

3) There is actionable evidence, allegedly. If the evidence exists and the NCAA has the support of member institutions, they're not going to need to sit around on this for years and worry over testimony and depositions.

Hopefully there are some federal indictments and FBI wire taps out there, the NCAA can really lay down the hammer with such evidence. 

[Francisco 2.0 32,543]

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Francisco 2.0