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Jim Harbaugh NO LONGER coaches at Michigan

Parliament

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Juicy

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7 minutes ago, Jebus said:

Tell me again why we don't just have radios in the helmets?  Or playcall wristbands that could easily be changed out at any time?

Because how would that make Michigan better than everyone else? Keep sign stealing alive. Make college football great again. 

 

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Zeus

Zeus 6018

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14 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Brent Venables come on down! 
 

https://www.wbrz.com/news/lsu-suspected-clemson-of-sign-stealing-in-2019-national-championship-game/

Sign stealing isn't the issue. 

It's an insane amount of sign stealing where you pay people to go to opponents games specifically to steal signs. That's over the line, obviously. 

 

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GopherRock

GopherRock 1765

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3 minutes ago, JesusSweatDuck said:

Just put radios in the helmets of FBS schools and be done with this.  Give Michigan a couple season post season ban and slap Harbaugh with a show cause penalty.  

You forgot the part about the directional Michigans and Cleveland State being handed the death penalty. 

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Tex Pete

Tex Pete 20342

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48 minutes ago, Jebus said:

Tell me again why we don't just have radios in the helmets?  Or playcall wristbands that could easily be changed out at any time?

I worked with a HS that would use wristbands and change them each week as they advanced deeper into the playoffs. Don't know if they had specific warnings on teams stealing signs or just did it as a precaution.

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Tex Pete

Tex Pete 20342

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31 minutes ago, Jebus said:

so I guess the difference between 49-0 and 30-34 was that Venables was able to get his sign stealing operation rolling at OU then

 

There were definitely points in our game this year that it appeared they knew our plays.

Kinda reminiscent of Venables' prior stint in Norman, no? Fucking cheater.

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22059

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I’m in the camp that wants all players to have radios/whatever in their helmets. I thought it was badass what TCU did to fake out Michigan. I also think Michigan’s sign stealing operation is wrong. I get a lot of coaches steal signs and don’t want to change to headsets. I also think Vegas isn’t liking any of this. 

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Tex Pete

Tex Pete 20342

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Just now, The_Great_Hornsby said:

Maybe I am the retard... I thought this was offensive sign stealing operation. Do they hold up signs for the defense? I guess I have never noticed that if they did. 

It was both. And yes, defenses use hand signs. Every defense I am aware of does.

Hell, I remember huddling on defense in HS some years.

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13581

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10 hours ago, C-Man said:

Joel Klatt was on The Ticket this week and said basically the same thing. Said the Michigan thing isn’t that big a deal since so many are doing this to some extent. They could put radios in the helmets ten years ago but none of the coaches who are doing this want to eliminate the need for signals, since they rely on stealing them.

If it is as Klatt describes it, then to me that makes it an even bigger deal. 

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22059

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2 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

If it is as Klatt describes it, then to me that makes it an even bigger deal. 

Klatt’s main thing has always been the NCAA isn’t a governing body and is total ass. This is what happens when you don’t have a true authority. He also compared it like going 15 miles per hour over the speeding limit—you get caught you’re getting a ticket. Whether you think the speed limit is bullshit or not. I agree with him on the NCAA. 

Edited by Nicole44
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closetojumping

closetojumping 62604

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16 hours ago, Juicy said:


Believe it is some light stalking of coeds, and accessing their grades and personal information Nothing to do with football.

Seriously though. Michigan needs someone to vet all these analyst hires. Harbaugh is just like ,”are you a psycho, stalker or racist? Come on down”

Light stalking? There's such a thing as "light stalking"? You Big 10 motherfuckers are a creepy group of losers. Jesus.

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13581

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12 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Klatt’s main thing has always been the NCAA isn’t a governing body and is total ass. This is what happens when you don’t have a true authority. He also compared it like going 15 miles per hour over the speeding limit—you get caught you’re getting a ticket. Whether you think the speed limit is bullshit or not. I agree with him on the NCAA. 

I think most everyone agrees the NCAA is next to useless when it comes to enforcement. What I'm addressing, as I understand it being described, is there is a critical mass of coaches who fight to keep these rules in place with the intention of breaking the rules for a competitive advantage. Either allow everyone (within the law) recording technology in efforts to steal signs or put radios in helmets. Don't insist on rules that you have intention of following. 

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22059

Posted
Posted
Just now, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

I think most everyone agrees the NCAA is next to useless when it comes to enforcement. What I'm addressing, as I understand it being described, is there is a critical mass of coaches who fight to keep these rules in place with the intention of breaking the rules for a competitive advantage. Either allow everyone (within the law) recording technology in efforts to steal signs or put radios in helmets. Don't insist on rules that you have intention of following. 

I agree. If the NCAA weren’t useless we’d have radios in helmets and it’s not left up to the coaches. Naturally, if left to their own devices without a competent governing body, of course many want to keep stealing signs and don’t want radios—they count on their advantage of sign stealing. Weak ass NCAA. 

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Jebus

Jebus 1305

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23 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

I agree. If the NCAA weren’t useless we’d have radios in helmets and it’s not left up to the coaches. Naturally, if left to their own devices without a competent governing body, of course many want to keep stealing signs and don’t want radios—they count on their advantage of sign stealing. Weak ass NCAA. 

Why just make clear rules that would clean up the dirty aspects of the game when you can just leave the rules and enforcement up to the scumbag used car salesmen?

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NWBuck

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33 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

I agree. If the NCAA weren’t useless we’d have radios in helmets and it’s not left up to the coaches. Naturally, if left to their own devices without a competent governing body, of course many want to keep stealing signs and don’t want radios—they count on their advantage of sign stealing. Weak ass NCAA. 

I thought this was interesting 

 

 

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15290

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50 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

I agree. If the NCAA weren’t useless we’d have radios in helmets and it’s not left up to the coaches. Naturally, if left to their own devices without a competent governing body, of course many want to keep stealing signs and don’t want radios—they count on their advantage of sign stealing. Weak ass NCAA. 

Could these be susceptible in any way to either jamming or having calls intercepted?  Asking for a friend.....

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squib

squib 1120

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1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

Could these be susceptible in any way to either jamming or having calls intercepted?  Asking for a friend.....

Down by 5 in the 4th quarter.   4th and 1 on the 35 yard line.   30 seconds to go.   QB lines up. And then....

 

Screenshot 2023-10-27 at 11.21.39 AM.png

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Laxtonto

Laxtonto 12080

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We are getting closer and closer to a world that to keep sports competitive we will need to impose rules about banning the use of real time AI during games as well… 

Set up a videographer on the side line during the game and overlay it with your teams video feed recording of the all 22. Take the signs from the first drive and all 22 and let it run for 15 to 20 minutes in real time and see what spits out about play probabilities. While that is running do an additional run with the first 2 drives to refine the model, then 3 and ect. Most likely by halftime you have a large set of confirmed signs….
 

This is something I could probably do myself (or at least assign some of my grad students to do) with minimal difficulty. Just need the realtime video and time stamps, plus a formation capture and play result catalog system and then something that can recognize either the boards or all the individual signal callers. The issue will be less about can it do it and more about processing time, data integration, and data management. The bottleneck won’t be cracking the code in real-time (very minimal sequences and limited unique inputs) as the processing time to find and match would be measured in seconds if not minutes. The time constraint would be the real-time video tracking system and how quickly it process.
 

But in truth you could go low tech and do all the data capture by hand with GAs watching your feeds and get probabilistic solutions of codes every drive that should stabilize fairly quickly. The fully automated concept is cool since less people means more secrecy and potentially a faster answer, but in practice you need 4 GAs and a laptop and you could crank out models as quickly as they GAs input the data each drive.

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21151

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19 hours ago, USC_TMB said:

Somebody has a serious hard-on for Harbaugh (obviously the NCAA, but someone outside).  The dude must have pissed off everyone in the coaching world and killed some powerful leader’s puppy. The normal line of thinking is, sensitive information doesn’t just get out unless someone wants it out. For sure the “fan” is a complete moron the way he went about things, but the speed AND the depth of the information leakage makes me think this goes beyond just cheating.

Harbaugh is seriously boned as far as collegiate coaching goes, Michigan will sacrifice him in an effort to save the “Harvard of the West” rep. Will an NFL team scoop him up? Hell, Belichick is still coaching, so…

He’s a fucking prick by most accounts so it could be anyone.  Love it.  

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Noozak

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12 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

 

We are getting closer and closer to a world that to keep sports competitive we will need to impose rules about banning the use of real time AI during games as well… 

Set up a videographer on the side line during the game and overlay it with your teams video feed recording of the all 22. Take the signs from the first drive and all 22 and let it run for 15 to 20 minutes in real time and see what spits out about play probabilities. While that is running do an additional run with the first 2 drives to refine the model, then 3 and ect. Most likely by halftime you have a large set of confirmed signs….
 

This is something I could probably do myself (or at least assign some of my grad students to do) with minimal difficulty. Just need the realtime video and time stamps, plus a formation capture and play result catalog system and then something that can recognize either the boards or all the individual signal callers. The issue will be less about can it do it and more about processing time, data integration, and data management. The bottleneck won’t be cracking the code in real-time (very minimal sequences and limited unique inputs) as the processing time to find and match would be measured in seconds if not minutes. The time constraint would be the real-time video tracking system and how quickly it process.
 

But in truth you could go low tech and do all the data capture by hand with GAs watching your feeds and get probabilistic solutions of codes every drive that should stabilize fairly quickly. The fully automated concept is cool since less people means more secrecy and potentially a faster answer, but in practice you need 4 GAs and a laptop and you could crank out models as quickly as they GAs input the data each drive.

I've wondered why we haven't seen people do something even more simple than ingesting live data. With down, distance, quarter, time left, score differential, and whatever other features that are useful; can you readily predict what play someone is going to call? Is that prediction even useful? 

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Tex Long

Tex Long 4384

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The extent and (apparent) accuracy of information seems to me to be far far far more likely to involve an (at least recently) inside source than some Columbo-level detective work. I'm thinking Harbaugh's abrasive personality and behavior has landed him (and the school) in this pile of shit. I'm enjoying the popcorn and gruntlement aspects of the show.Richly deserved by all - them and us.

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blutow

blutow 238

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2 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

Klatt’s main thing has always been the NCAA isn’t a governing body and is total ass. This is what happens when you don’t have a true authority. He also compared it like going 15 miles per hour over the speeding limit—you get caught you’re getting a ticket. Whether you think the speed limit is bullshit or not. I agree with him on the NCAA. 

Yeah, lots of people speed and take their chances, but most try to be smart about it.  If someone blows through a school zone doing 80, they are probably getting a ride to the station.  The level of stupidity that UM appears to have exhibited here is pretty impressive.  Whether NCAA can or will do anything about it will be an interesting watch. 

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Nigel Tufnel

Nigel Tufnel 199

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2 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

There were definitely points in our game this year that it appeared they knew our plays.

Kinda reminiscent of Venables' prior stint in Norman, no? Fucking cheater.

Without question.  But more than likely it was due to sitting down with Brennan Thompson over the prior months to get a better idea of what UT does.

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NWBuck

NWBuck 8552

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Posted (edited)

Idea from elsewhere on the intertrons... 

Fine Michigan $10 million. 

Use the money to outfit all of the other FBS schools with helmet receivers. 

Require Michigan to huddle and use players to shuttle plays in and out. 

Edited by NWBuck
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Vertigo

Vertigo 20276

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2 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

There were definitely points in our game this year that it appeared they knew our plays.

Kinda reminiscent of Venables' prior stint in Norman, no? Fucking cheater.

100%. I remember seeing the entire defense do zero reads on the way to blowing up some plays in the earlier parts of the game. 

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closetojumping

closetojumping 62604

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9 minutes ago, Nigel Tufnel said:

Without question.  But more than likely it was due to sitting down with Brennan Thompson over the prior months to get a better idea of what UT does.

Why does this notion keep popping up on this site? It's absurd. Brennan Thompson couldn't get formations and plays correct when he was at Texas. That's part of why he wasn't playing. That's one of the reasons they were fine with him hitting the road. Suddenly he's going to show up at OU and go Rain Man on the UT playcalling system? GTFO with that nonsense.

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T-shirt Sip

T-shirt Sip 2100

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3 hours ago, Zeus said:

Sign stealing isn't the issue. 

It's an insane amount of sign stealing where you pay people to go to opponents games specifically to steal signs. That's over the line, obviously. 

 

The NCAA has no rules against sign-stealing, but it does ban in-person, in-season advanced scouting of opponents and the use of electronic equipment to record opponents’ signals.

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Vertigo

Vertigo 20276

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3 hours ago, NWBuck said:

I thought this was interesting 

 

 

At this point, there is a well worn path on the issue thanks to the NFL. It's not like the warranty magically keeps a school from being sued in the event of a major issue. The NFL is far more exposed than college football because they don't have any sovereign immunity. What I don't want to see is that teams go to radios and then the coaches are giving them all of the pre snap reads and telling them where to throw up until the ball is snapped. It will incentivize teams to go up tempo again so that the coaches can make reads at the line once they see the defense. 

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Jebus

Jebus 1305

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Posted

 

9 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

What I don't want to see is that teams go to radios and then the coaches are giving them all of the pre snap reads and telling them where to throw up until the ball is snapped. It will incentivize teams to go up tempo again so that the coaches can make reads at the line once they see the defense. 

Don’t the radios shut off at a certain point of the play clock in the nfl? Like 15 seconds left on the play clock or something like that?

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