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Jim Harbaugh NO LONGER coaches at Michigan

Parliament

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closetojumping

closetojumping 62765

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13 minutes ago, Not a cat said:

I used to argue with a guy that said Barry Bonds juicing didn't matter because you need more than just strength to hit homers.  I finally gave up as once someone makes up their mind, it ain't changing.

And just like the know-nothing idiots dismissing steroids as irrelevant, those of us that understand this shit is a big deal know that the morons dismissing it are flatly on the wrong side of history. These fuckers have tilted the game in ways that fuck with the very fabric of it. 

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Laxtonto

Laxtonto 12090

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41 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

It's been interesting that I have seen some comments about this from certain media and internet corners blowing it off as no big deal with things like "yea but they still gotta stop it or make the play happen" and pointing out things like tOSU having 492 yards against Michigan.  Sure, knowing the play or the defense doesn't for sure mean you are can stop it, but you know where it makes it a LOT more likely......late in a game.  Fatigue starts to set in.  You may not be able to stop what you know is coming in the 1st quarter against a really talented team but I guarantee you it makes it a shitload easier to stop things when everybody has a little tired on them AND you know what's coming.  

The stats I am most curious about at this point all fall back to keeping drives on schedule. How many drives for the opponents got off schedule by knowing it is a run on 2nd down and it gets stuffed to push it to 3rd and 6 or so? How many play-action bombs became sacks or picks because they knew it was a pass? How many how many 3rd or 4th and shorts were stopped because they knew it was instead going to be a some sort of quick pass? How many of the stats for their pass rushers were inflated?

All of these would be manipulated by all of this.

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Helobious

Helobious 9464

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7 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

The stats I am most curious about at this point all fall back to keeping drives on schedule. How many drives for the opponents got off schedule by knowing it is a run on 2nd down and it gets stuffed to push it to 3rd and 6 or so? How many play-action bombs became sacks or picks because they knew it was a pass? How many how many 3rd or 4th and shorts were stopped because they knew it was instead going to be a some sort of quick pass? How many of the stats for their pass rushers were inflated?

All of these would be manipulated by all of this.

It’s hard to tell because of Michigan’s ultra-weak schedule and the fact they were playing big 10 offenses. Ohio state was pretty much the only good offense Michigan played last regular season and they torched them for almost 500 yards. There’s also been a lot of talk Ohio state knew about the sign stealing and switched up some things.

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lilMAC25

lilMAC25 3801

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Not a cat said:

I used to argue with a guy that said Barry Bonds juicing didn't matter because you need more than just strength to hit homers.  I finally gave up as once someone makes up their mind, it ain't changing.

I mean, he’s not wrong, but you aren’t either and what you’re correct about is far more impactful, IMHO.

 

 

Barry (or Mark or Sammy or Jeff) could reduce their swing and get better bat control. That 365 foot fly ball? Now it’s a 415 ft HR.

 

 

Definite advantage.

 

OTOH

A. Pitchers were using it more than any other position.

B. MLB and team management were 100% aware. 

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Wally Fairway

Wally Fairway 5571

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I haven't followed all of this, for the obv reason that it didn't make a shits worth of difference to MSU's horrible fucking program at this time, but is there an idea exactly when this is supposedly to  have started?
Could it have been a couple of years ago when Michigan finally go over the hump from Harb's having good seasons to finally beating the Bucknuts and winning the conference?

Asking for a couple of friends

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Laxtonto

Laxtonto 12090

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Just now, Wally Fairway said:

I haven't followed all of this, for the obv reason that it didn't make a shits worth of difference to MSU's horrible fucking program at this time, but is there an idea exactly when this is supposedly to  have started?
Could it have been a couple of years ago when Michigan finally go over the hump from Harb's having good seasons to finally beating the Bucknuts and winning the conference?

Asking for a couple of friends

Funny enough it looks to have been something that is Post-COVID.  Since it began in 2021 they have "scouted" 30+ games.

I wonder if this was something they cooked up over COVID when they were playing games in empty stadiums and could really see how hard it was to ID signs in game, even without the added distraction of the crowd and crowd noise and all the extra people on the sideline.

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tx ind

tx ind 7013

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SIAP, but the Frogs knew and got ahead of them.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/tcu-knew-of-michigans-alleged-sign-stealing-prior-to-cfp-meeting-used-dummy-signals-in-game-per-reports/

Spoiler

TCU reportedly had knowledge of Michigan's alleged sign-stealing scheme when the two teams met in the 2022 College Football Playoff semifinal, Yahoo Sports reports. According to the report, the Horned Frogs staff used "dummy signals" in the team's stunning 51-45 upset win over the Wolverines after they were tipped off to suspicious activity from the Michigan coaching staff.  

An anonymous TCU coach told Yahoo Sports that Sonny Dykes' staff used outdated play-call signals at various points in the game. TCU players were instructed to ignore the signals and run the plays as originally called. The Horned Frogs, who entered the contest as roughly a touchdown underdog, never trailed in the game. They built a 21-3 lead in the first half before ultimately hanging on for a six-point victory and advancing to the College Football Playoff National Championship against Georgia. 

"Sometimes we froze a play before the snap," the coach told Yahoo! Sports. "We'd call a play and then we'd signal in another play with an old signal but we told players to run the original play."

Suspended Wolverines analyst Connor Stalions allegedly spearheaded an operation that saw more than 30 tickets bought over a three-year period with the purpose of filming and decoding play-call signals. Included were games to a dozen Big Ten venues and four games involving non-Big Ten CFP contenders that Michigan suspected it might face. While sign-stealing itself is not a NCAA violation, in-person scouting and recording of opponents is prohibited. 

TCU, to this point, has not been reported as a school that Michigan allegedly attempted to scout. NCAA enforcement staffers reportedly arrived to Michigan's campus this week to interview members of Wolverines coach Jim Harbaugh's coaching staff regarding the alleged activity. 

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21469

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:


Could it have been a couple of years ago when Michigan finally go over the hump from Harb's having good seasons to finally beating the Bucknuts and winning the conference?

Asking for a couple of friends

Supposedly.

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Parliament

Parliament 14272

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7 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

I haven't followed all of this, for the obv reason that it didn't make a shits worth of difference to MSU's horrible fucking program at this time, but is there an idea exactly when this is supposedly to  have started?
Could it have been a couple of years ago when Michigan finally go over the hump from Harb's having good seasons to finally beating the Bucknuts and winning the conference?

Asking for a couple of friends

Fall of 2021, which coincides with when they got good.  STEALING SIGNS WAS NOT THE ONLY REASON.  They turned some coordinators over at the same time and had good talent.  The irony is they woulda been a good team regardless.  Good chance they woulda beat Ohio State in 2021, and definitely 2022.  As noted above, we just plain forgot how to tackle.

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closetojumping

closetojumping 62765

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26 minutes ago, Helobious said:

IMG_3820.jpeg.b0e6e1bf88d7398b3e3c1caec29a97a9.jpeg

The most on brand move ever on this board is for you, dipshitted clown that you are, to support the sign stealing efforts at Michigan.  I’d like to hire you as a personal assistant. On every key decision, just ask you what you think, and make sure we’re doing the exact opposite. 

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Viper

Viper 12109

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1 minute ago, closetojumping said:

The most on brand move ever on this board is for you, dipshitted clown that you are, to support the sign stealing efforts at Michigan.  I’d like to hire you as a personal assistant. On every key decision, just ask you what you think, and make sure we’re doing the exact opposite. 

He's the closest thing we have to branding iron

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Laxtonto

Laxtonto 12090

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Sounds like MeCheaten has had a long history of shady things regarding sidelines before this..

Quote

Multiple sources from one Big Ten school told SI that a coach at a different school called them before playing Michigan to warn them about Wolverines ball boys on their sideline listening to play calls and communicating information to the Michigan sideline—holding the football up in one hand to indicate an expected pass, and in the other hand to indicate a run, for instance.

 

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Helobious

Helobious 9464

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19 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

The most on brand move ever on this board is for you, dipshitted clown that you are, to support the sign stealing efforts at Michigan.  I’d like to hire you as a personal assistant. On every key decision, just ask you what you think, and make sure we’re doing the exact opposite. 

I haven’t “supported” shit. I just think this isn’t the huge crazy earthshattering scandal everyone thinks it is. What’s michigans record in big time games against equally talented opponents the past 3 seasons? 3-3? Pretty much all their games have been against little sisters of the poor that have nowhere near the talent level of Michigan. I also truly think Stallions was dumb/insane enough to buy those tickets with his own money, which really muddies the water on if actual violations occurred. There’s nothing in the NCAA rulebook prohibiting a team from buying in-person video of an opponent from a 3rd party. You just can’t send an actual staff member in person to a game. 

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closetojumping

closetojumping 62765

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19 minutes ago, Helobious said:

I haven’t “supported” shit. I just think this isn’t the huge crazy earthshattering scandal everyone thinks it is. What’s michigans record in big time games against equally talented opponents the past 3 seasons? 3-3? Pretty much all their games have been against little sisters of the poor that have nowhere near the talent level of Michigan. I also truly think Stallions was dumb/insane enough to buy those tickets with his own money, which really muddies the water on if actual violations occurred. There’s nothing in the NCAA rulebook prohibiting a team from buying in-person video of an opponent from a 3rd party. You just can’t send an actual staff member in person to a game. 

I’m fascinated that you are able to type this many sentences in a row. 
 

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Pam Cummings

Pam Cummings 9647

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33 minutes ago, Helobious said:

I haven’t “supported” shit. I just think this isn’t the huge crazy earthshattering scandal everyone thinks it is. What’s michigans record in big time games against equally talented opponents the past 3 seasons? 3-3? Pretty much all their games have been against little sisters of the poor that have nowhere near the talent level of Michigan. I also truly think Stallions was dumb/insane enough to buy those tickets with his own money, which really muddies the water on if actual violations occurred. There’s nothing in the NCAA rulebook prohibiting a team from buying in-person video of an opponent from a 3rd party. You just can’t send an actual staff member in person to a game. 

Oh god. It's worse than i thought. Michigan might not be allowed to field a team next year.

Edited by Pam Cummings
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Laxtonto

Laxtonto 12090

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17 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Oh god. It's worse than i thought. Michigan might not be allowed to field a team next year.

This falls more into teams knew something was up and for the most part blamed the ball boys instead of the flat-out insanity of thinking Michigan had already recorded their sideline and deciphered their entire set of signs before the game ever started. It is always easier to blame the old-school techniques that people just assume happen vs. stretching your imagination to come up with a form of cheating that they wouldn't have used/heard of in the past...

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Pam Cummings

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6 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

This falls more into teams knew something was up and for the most part blamed the ball boys instead of the flat-out insanity of thinking Michigan had already recorded their sideline and deciphered their entire set of signs before the game ever started. It is always easier to blame the old-school techniques that people just assume happen vs. stretching your imagination to come up with a form of cheating that they wouldn't have used/heard of in the past...

Oh i was just making the joke that whatever Helobious thinks, you should bet your house on the opposite to happen. I actually have no clue what will happen here, but think Michigan looks dirty.

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Juicy

Juicy 727

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18 minutes ago, Hornlover said:

When they release the first CFP standings tomorrow, it will be absolutely hilarious if they just completely leave off Michigan. The schadenfreude would be so deliciously sweet.

It would be hilarious for sure. The odds of it happening are 0% though. 

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Parliament

Parliament 14272

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15 minutes ago, alincoln said:

The Stalions are favored by 31 against Purdue this week.  I wonder if the cheating revelations have impacted the line at all.  Purdue probably isn't the greatest litmus test.

 

 

I think it’s fair to run the same betting spreads until Michigan proves it one way or the other.

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closetojumping

closetojumping 62765

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43 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Which staffer went to games? A staffer definitely bought the tickets, but which one attended the games? 

 

35 minutes ago, Juicy said:

you literally said a staffer went to games. What game is being played. You stated something that did not happen. 

This is exactly what every person on the Michigan end is doing. Posters like this buffoon, people in the media carrying water for them, and people within the program itself.

They're going to tediously whittle and obfuscate any time they can be overly literal. They're going to claim that no one of merit knew anything at all and look at us with a straight face and tell anyone to prove it. Nevermind any evidence that actually does that, they're going to act like this is whole thing needs to be sorted as though in a court of law and claim ignorance and technicality, over and over again until everyone else is bored and moves on. 

Only problem, this isn't a court of law. They root for a program that has now woven into its fabric the need to cheat at a weaponized level in order to remain relevant at the national level. Every victory from 2021 to here forward for Michigan is tainted. The program is run by an all-time dirtbag who was so shitty at his job that he was on the verge of being fired by his alma mater until he took cheating to a level that ruined the integrity of the game.

And all of the fans and alumni that continue to defend this from here are worthless shitheads too. Just absolute pieces of shit.

11 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

They did by proxy.

That fuckface knows that. He's just doing what he's been doing since this story broke on this thread - running interference, playing stupid, and generally detracting from the overall dialogue. 

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Royale with cheese

Royale with cheese 1467

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52 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Which staffer went to games? A staffer definitely bought the tickets, but which one attended the games? 

Si and I went to the circus.

He got hit with a bowling pin.

We got even with that circus,

we bought tickets to all our opponents' games on both sides of the field so we could switch perspectives at halftime, but we didn't go in. 

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Juicy

Juicy 727

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8 minutes ago, alincoln said:

I don't think he's playing 

The rule is the rule. Staffers can't attend games. The staffer didn't attend games. I am sorry that offends people but pushing the limits of the rule seems to be pretty common. I guess we will see what the ncaa ultimately rules, but its a spirit of the law letter of the law situation. 

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Teamdirtyleg

Teamdirtyleg 1060

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4 minutes ago, Juicy said:

The rule is the rule. Staffers can't attend games. The staffer didn't attend games. I am sorry that offends people but pushing the limits of the rule seems to be pretty common. I guess we will see what the ncaa ultimately rules, but its a spirit of the law letter of the law situation. 

So this is your position?

Wow!

My view of Michigan and their fanbase has really changed in the last week or two.

How does it feel to have zero integrity?

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Juicy

Juicy 727

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Just now, Teamdirtyleg said:

So this is your position?

Wow!

My view of Michigan and their fanbase has really changed in the last week or two.

How does it feel to have zero integrity?

I honestly don't have a view right now. Everything reported is reported with 100% slant against Michigan, they are making it look as horrible as possible for clicks. Michigan can't respond so they have to just sit there and take it. I tend to lean that the truth is somewhere in the middle. Do I think it is that is is such a horrible ordeal that it is going to cost Michigan anything more than a fine, no. 

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15302

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2 minutes ago, Juicy said:

I honestly don't have a view right now.

lol, yes you do

 

3 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Everything reported is reported with 100% slant against Michigan

What's the "positive" slant?  It was done, but it's no big deal?  Everyone does it?  We just got caught?  What?

 

3 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Michigan can't respond so they have to just sit there and take it.

Because they're in the middle of a formal investigation brought upon them by dozens of schools and mounting evidence that this has been going on for years.  It's not an isolated event.  Then the consideration that there is a history with the head coach, including recent COVID violations with recruits.

 

5 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Do I think it is that is is such a horrible ordeal that it is going to cost Michigan anything more than a fine, no. 

There it is - "well yeah, we got caught, but everyone else does it too and it's not a big deal"

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