Jim Harbaugh NO LONGER coaches at Michigan

Chopper · October 30, 2023

Tyler Stalions was suspended from his $55k/year job (I've read with pay) as soon as the story broke.

Michigan did not advance scout TCU. That's probably why they looked like garbage against 'em. It's also why Michigan later expanded their scouting operation to include more non-B10 teams who had a chance to make it to the FCS.

Why doesn't the NCAA do something right away if this is such a big deal, some dipshit asked. The NCAA has rigid rules it must follow. Even if the NCAA sent a notice of proposed major infraction to UM today, Michigan would have 90 days to respond taking any conceivable punishment well past the playoffs. The B10 could possibly step in and enforce conference sportsmanship rules. Or UM could self-enforce.

The alleged violations came to the attention of the NCAA when "an outside investigative firm approached college sports’ governing body with videos and documents detailing the reported scheme that were discovered on computer drives maintained and accessed by multiple Wolverines coaches." https://www.freep.com/story/sports/university-michigan/wolverines/2023/10/25/michigan-football-computers-ncaa-sign-stealing-scandal/71320965007/ I'd guess it came about from tOSU trying to get the full scope of what Harbaugh U. was up to but who knows.

48 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Could this keep an undefeated UM out of CFP?

The selection committee will be instructed to ignore it.

Sandbagging Steve · October 30, 2023

1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

I hate myself for responding to this because I know these thoughts just drift into the idiot abyss, but so be it.

I'm on the baseball board. I also live in Houston. You are confusing the belief that what the Astros did didn't change the outcome of that season with the idea that Houston didn't do anything wrong. The majority of people I read and talk to see it similar to the way I do, and absolutely know that the shit they pulled was corrupt and not just "everyone steals signs in baseball, that's sportsmanship!"

As to your take about Harbaugh being good at Michigan before the cheating, you're just wrong. 10 win seasons aren't enough at a blue blood. 9 wins sure as shit aren't. Will you take them? Sure. Given the last 13 years, 10 wins this year, just like in 2018, can be rationalized for a blue blood fanbase on some mediocre level. But Harbaugh was clearly not advancing beyond that. It got to the point that the guy had to renegotiate his deal due to performance in order to get an extension.

Correct.

Nine or ten wins in the Slow 10 isn't much of a resume. Michigan and tOSU play like a 3/4-game season, OOC, conference, and bowl game combined. Michigan was losing the majority of the games against anyone with a pulse and somehow would lose a game here and there to a cupcake. Suddenly, they start winning the big games on their schedule. The transformation was more significant than the record indicates.

B1G is so terrible. I hope the 4 new additions change that conference. They need better coaches, talent, and schemes. A complete overhaul of the conference. I don't care how many regional TV views they get. It's not going to last the next 50 years unless they change.

GreenspointTexas · October 30, 2023

4 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Tyler Stalions was suspended from his $55k/year job (I've read with pay) as soon as the story broke.

Michigan did not advance scout TCU. That's probably why they looked like garbage against 'em. It's also why Michigan later expanded their scouting operation to include more non-B10 teams who had a chance to make it to the FCS.

Why doesn't the NCAA do something right away if this is such a big deal, some dipshit asked. The NCAA has rigid rules it must follow. Even if the NCAA sent a notice of proposed major infraction to UM today, Michigan would have 90 days to respond taking any conceivable punishment well past the playoffs. The B10 could possibly step in and enforce conference sportsmanship rules. Or UM could self-enforce.

The alleged violations came to the attention of the NCAA when "an outside investigative firm approached college sports’ governing body with videos and documents detailing the reported scheme that were discovered on computer drives maintained and accessed by multiple Wolverines coaches." https://www.freep.com/story/sports/university-michigan/wolverines/2023/10/25/michigan-football-computers-ncaa-sign-stealing-scandal/71320965007/ I'd guess it came about from tOSU trying to get the full scope of what Harbaugh U. was up to but who knows.

The selection committee will be instructed to ignore it.

Wut

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/tcu-knew-of-michigans-alleged-sign-stealing-prior-to-cfp-meeting-used-dummy-signals-in-game-per-reports/#lod9wekt9fq74i3iosg

Texzilla58 · October 30, 2023

Pretty easy solution going forward: radio helmets. And fucking huddle up. You think DKR would be calling plays with fucking big pictures of Kool Aid Man and ET? Fuck no.

Tex Long · October 30, 2023

1 minute ago, Texzilla58 said:

Pretty easy solution going forward: radio helmets. And fucking huddle up. You think DKR would be calling plays with fucking big pictures of Kool Aid Man and ET? Fuck no.

Would it be unethical and/or illegal to either jam the helmet frequency or listen in on it? Could you just hire a third party to do it for you?

Chopper · October 30, 2023

2 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Wut

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/tcu-knew-of-michigans-alleged-sign-stealing-prior-to-cfp-meeting-used-dummy-signals-in-game-per-reports/#lod9wekt9fq74i3iosg

Wut? That and they didn't advance scout tcu aren't mutually exclusive.

Helobious · October 30, 2023

15 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Wut? That and they didn't advance scout tcu aren't mutually exclusive.

They’d have to be mutually exclusive. What’s the benefit of using fake signs if Michigan never knew what the original signs were.

immamac · October 30, 2023

@Juicy seriously man you gotta fuck off from this thread. Your posts read like Texags shit. I’m a Michigan fan as well and this is straight up cheating as bad as it gets. I don’t think they are blowing people out because of this and I don’t know how many games it changed the outcome of, but that’s besides the point. The point is they fucking cheated and are cheaters whether they want to be or not or whether it was helpful or not. Just keep it to the news and commentary supporting this being not a death penalty punishment and you’ll be fine. You are well on your way to getting crowdsourced if you keep it up and I’m not going to fucking save you.

Not a cat · October 30, 2023

38 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

Would it be unethical and/or illegal to either jam the helmet frequency or listen in on it? Could you just hire a third party to do it for you?

It's a testament to the stupidity on this thread that I started seriously responding to this before my sarcasm detector went off.

Tex Long · October 30, 2023

Just now, Not a cat said:

It's a testament to the stupidity on this thread that I started seriously responding to this before my sarcasm detector went off.

Part of it is that we (and other schools) have people who are not part of the Athletic Department and who could, and perhaps would, do exactly that. I'm mildly surprised no one AFAIK has been caught tapping the sideline comms.

Juicy · October 30, 2023

20 minutes ago, immamac said:

@Juicy seriously man you gotta fuck off from this thread. Your posts read like Texags shit. I’m a Michigan fan as well and this is straight up cheating as bad as it gets. I don’t think they are blowing people out because of this and I don’t know how many games it changed the outcome of, but that’s besides the point. The point is they fucking cheated and are cheaters whether they want to be or not or whether it was helpful or not. Just keep it to the news and commentary supporting this being not a death penalty punishment and you’ll be fine. You are well on your way to getting crowdsourced if you keep it up and I’m not going to fucking save you.

I agree with most of what you said. I don't think "let's see how this actually ends up" is a completely unreasonable take to have. You don't have to be paranoid to see that this is a PR attack that Michigan can't respond to. Did stallions go outside the lines, absolutely. Does him having a google drive that his minions uploaded their videos to mean that harbaugh knew and supported what he was doing? I would like to see how it plays out before I make that call.

Quote

How egregious can it be? Brian Kelly on the whole thing:

"…this isn't the first time we've heard of sign stealing," he said, "whether there is proposed sign stealing or people were buying tickets to other games. This is all part of why this should not even be part of the equation."

Kelly said the tangible effect of stealing signals is debatable. In 32 years of coaching, he said, he has never believed they lost a game because of it.

"I've never come back to the office and go, they got us," he added.

If this is such a tremendous advantage why would the NCAA go thirty years without implementing a quick fix? Why would football coaches—the most paranoid group of professionals anywhere on this earth—not go to un-hackable wristbands? The claims that this is the WORST SCANDAL EVER simply do not align with the behavior of anyone in the sport for the last three decades.

Chopper · October 30, 2023

4 minutes ago, Helobious said:

They’d have to be mutually exclusive. What’s the benefit of using fake signs if Michigan never knew what the original signs were.

Your question is illogical. TCU getting warned about sign stealing only shows one or two coaches were suspicious of sign stealing, not that they were aware of the full scope of UHarbaugh's sources and methods. The full extent only began to be put together once an external investigator contacted the NCAA, and B10 schools searched Tyler Stallions name in their ticket database and saw he purchased tickets to view all other conference opponents.

Tex Long · October 30, 2023

2 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Your question is illogical. TCU getting warned about sign stealing only shows one or two coaches were suspicious of sign stealing, not that they were aware of the full scope of UHarbaugh's sources and methods. The full extent only began to be put together once an external investigator contacted the NCAA, and B10 schools searched Tyler Stallions name in their ticket database and saw he purchased tickets to view all other conference opponents.

True, assuming by "one or two" you mean lebenty-lebben.

Chopper · October 30, 2023

9 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

True, assuming by "one or two" you mean lebenty-lebben.

As has been reported by SI it was a "I have a feeling they knew our signs" thing. That's the point. Other coaches weren't saying, "Well, you see, Michigan has this guy Tyler Stallions, and he has a whole network of ex-coaches he sends to video record opponents games using tickets he purchased mid-level at the 45 yard line with instructions to keep the camera pointed at the sideline guys sending in the signs."

Edited October 30, 2023 by Chopper
typo

Tex Long · October 30, 2023

Oh, well, if SI said something, that's all we need. So "other coaches" is definitively "one or two", must be.

chainsaw · October 30, 2023

21 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Does him having a google drive that his minions uploaded their videos to mean that harbaugh knew and supported what he was doing? I would like to see how it plays out before I make that call.

I'd like to know if Harbaugh wised up to the fact that Sonny Dykes was wised up to their signals being read. It sure seems like Michigan made a few defensive adjustments at halftime.

locodos · October 30, 2023

The upside of all this is going to be the fan reaction. Looking forward to the Game Day takes... In before "Harbaugh stole my other signs"

Well, that and the results of the FBI investigation.

Edited October 30, 2023 by locodos

Zeus · October 30, 2023

9 minutes ago, immamac said:

@Juicy seriously man you gotta fuck off from this thread. Your posts read like Texags shit. I’m a Michigan fan as well and this is straight up cheating as bad as it gets. I don’t think they are blowing people out because of this and I don’t know how many games it changed the outcome of, but that’s besides the point. The point is they fucking cheated and are cheaters whether they want to be or not or whether it was helpful or not. Just keep it to the news and commentary supporting this being not a death penalty punishment and you’ll be fine. You are well on your way to getting crowdsourced if you keep it up and I’m not going to fucking save you.

yes and comparing this to the Astros is bullshit too

4th&Five · October 30, 2023

3 minutes ago, locodos said:

The upside of all this is going to be the fan reaction. Looking forward to the Game Day takes... In before "Harbaugh stole my other signs"

Well, that and the results of the FBI investigation.

nope

locodos · October 30, 2023

2 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

nope

damnit

Tex Long · October 30, 2023

The Pirate took care of this the old-fashion way. He only had like six plays, and they were all known by everybody. Whether it was a pass or a run, which way, and to whom it was given, the QB often didn't know until the play started, and even then it depended on who he was reading.

Steal my signs? Go ahead, see how many fingers I hold up. Whatever you do, two or more of your guys will be wrong.

If he'd ever had a D...

Helobious · October 30, 2023

3 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

The Pirate took care of this the old-fashion way. He only had like six plays, and they were all known by everybody. Whether it was a pass or a run, which way, and to whom it was given, the QB often didn't know until the play started, and even then it depended on who he was reading.

Steal my signs? Go ahead, see how many fingers I hold up. Whatever you do, two or more of your guys will be wrong.

If he'd ever had a D...

I think Chip Kelly’s Oregon teams only had about 30 plays total

BabaYaga · October 30, 2023

4 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

The Pirate took care of this the old-fashion way. He only had like six plays, and they were all known by everybody. Whether it was a pass or a run, which way, and to whom it was given, the QB often didn't know until the play started, and even then it depended on who he was reading.

Steal my signs? Go ahead, see how many fingers I hold up. Whatever you do, two or more of your guys will be wrong.

If he'd ever had a D...

This also allowed them to run their plays so quickly. This is how they always beat the ags. Farmers had no depth and those O-line splits wore the trenches out. Once the starters were gassed, it was lights out. What was the game after Mack told the reporters he subbed something like 13 guys JUST on the DL in the game?

Laxtonto · October 30, 2023

11 minutes ago, Chopper said:

As has been reported by SI it was a "I have a feeling they knew our signs" thing. That's the point. Other coaches weren't saying, "Well, you see, Michigan has this guy Tyler Stallions, and he has a whole network of ex-coaches he sends to video record opponents games using tickets he purchased mid-level at the 45 yard line with instructions to keep the camera pointed at the sideline guys sending in the signs."

This also goes back to the rumors of warning teams about the ball boys as well. Just because teams are very suspicious about Michigan's level of knowledge of their play calls and designs does not mean that teams had any idea at the level they were going.

People were suspicious of the level of information Michigan had about play calls and went and picked approaches that they thought were logical explanations. Just by looking through old-fashioned examples of gameday gamesmanship, teams know some teams push the rules to get an edge. So with MeCheaten, some thought it was sideline shenanigans, some thought it was old signs or playbooks being passed about, and it makes me wonder if some of the wild rumors teams blamed it on extra spotters in suites. All of those things are teams just trying to get a grip on a phenomenon that supposedly happens in a game in real-time and trying to come up with an in-game counter to stop this real-time activity.

None of it those types of issues are something that you can combat when the cheating is not happening in game in real-time but instead through a concerted effort to decode signs through earlier obtained sideline video and pairing with other data well before the game ever started.

I think teams are so angry about this because everyone was used to guarding their systems from an in-game real-time issue and so no one was really prepared for something of this level of sophistication. I think this is the biggest issue here and why now people have such a visceral reaction to the concept.

UTEE97 · October 30, 2023

1 hour ago, Tex Long said:

Would it be unethical and/or illegal to either jam the helmet frequency or listen in on it? Could you just hire a third party to do it for you?

As long as a Michigan staffer doesn't jam the frequency by himself, they should be in the clear, per Juicy.

Tex Long · October 30, 2023

8 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

... so no one was really prepared for something of this level of sophistication.

This is the issue. A goodly portion of the narrative looks to be remorse of the "God DAMMIT, why didn't we think of that?" variety.

Chopper · October 30, 2023

36 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

Oh, well, if SI said something, that's all we need. So "other coaches" is definitively "one or two", must be.

Apparently you, who believes hiring a 3rd party to commit infractions absolves one of any moral or legal dilemma from breaching said infractions, also believe that every coach in the B10 knew of Michigan's operation and yet it was only reported to the NCAA this month.

I guarantee one of the schools that had a partial clue about the extent of it was tOSU but only after last year's game.

Tex Long · October 30, 2023

2 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Apparently you, who believes hiring a 3rd party to commit infractions absolves one of any moral or legal dilemma from breaching said infractions, also believe that every coach in the B10 knew of Michigan's operation and yet it was only reported to the NCAA this month.

I guarantee one of the schools that had a partial clue about the extent of it was tOSU but only after last year's game.

Are you laboring under the assumption that accompanying your hyperbolic blather with pictures makes it more believes believe believable?

Zeus · October 30, 2023

This pussy is getting ROASTED lmao

PittsburghTiger · October 30, 2023

23 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Apparently you, who believes hiring a 3rd party to commit infractions absolves one of any moral or legal dilemma from breaching said infractions, also believe that every coach in the B10 knew of Michigan's operation and yet it was only reported to the NCAA this month.

I guarantee one of the schools that had a partial clue about the extent of it was tOSU but only after last year's game.

This is the argument that forces one to twist like a pretzel.

Zeus · October 30, 2023

How does this cheating scandal effect your legacy?

"team is refreshed I'm refreshed, uh..."

Fudge Nuggets · October 30, 2023

On 10/28/2023 at 5:24 AM, Victor R. Franko said:

So if you're Joe Blow, somewhat college football educated, do you go underground when the lawyers, investigators, and NCAA come knocking. I would spill my guts as soon and fast as I could. I ain't taking any kind of punishment or fine, or ridicule for any football program. as loyal as I may or may not be, not even the Longhorns would get my silence.

Snitches get stitches.

BigHornedLurker · October 30, 2023

8 minutes ago, Zeus said:

How does this cheating scandal effect your legacy?

"team is refreshed I'm refreshed, uh..."

InB4 "I did not have relations with that play sheet"

Tex Long · October 30, 2023

All things considered, the preferred outcome for many of us is an asteroid strike in Ann Arbor on November 11, or November 25, or both.

closetojumping · October 30, 2023

11 minutes ago, Zeus said:

How does this cheating scandal effect your legacy?

"team is refreshed I'm refreshed, uh..."

Fuck that shitbag. He acts surprised that people in the press are doing their jobs for once and actually asking him uncomfortable questions. I hope they do not relent on his ass. Just pepper him in the post game PC after the Purdue blowout with one question after another on this shit.

markstanco · October 30, 2023

5 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

I say leave Juicy alone. I appreciate having other teams' fans and perspectives here, even if I think their takes are iditioc at times.

Juicy is being blindly obtuse on this, as are some other posters. Some Longhorn fans would act the same if it were Texas, though I think most of us would not. It is clear that Michigan took this way farther than any CFB program we are aware of. I am hoping positive change comes to the NCAA as a result.

I also hope it ends with Brent Venables being banned from CFB for being a cheating piece of shit.

Good point. Most were against the Casey Horny hire by Herman, but some were fine with it using the "its in the past" argument.

Zeus · October 30, 2023

1 minute ago, closetojumping said:

Fuck that shitbag. He acts surprised that people in the press are doing their jobs for once and actually asking him uncomfortable questions. I hope they do not relent on his ass. Just pepper him in the post game PC after the Purdue blowout with one question after another on this shit.

Agreed.

If the media doesn't go at it they are a bunch of pussies because NOTHING is interesting about big 10 football this year There's 2 good teams, everyone else is a cupcake.

Tex Long · October 30, 2023

"We are dealing with an ongoing situation here, and I cannot comment on it at this time."

Is there a bingo card square for that?

Mr. Drummond · October 30, 2023

2 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Agreed.

If the media doesn't go at it they are a bunch of pussies because NOTHING is interesting about big 10 football the last 30 years. There's 2 good teams, everyone else is a cupcake.

FIFY

Laxtonto · October 30, 2023

2 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

"We are dealing with an ongoing situation here, and I cannot comment on it at this time."

Is there a bingo card square for that?

Well if you have either a crisis management or PR firm involved, it should be considered center square as a given. Nothing in all of that means anything other than he has been advised to not say anything.

Tex Long · October 30, 2023

1 minute ago, Laxtonto said:

Well if you have either a crisis management or PR firm involved, it should be considered center square as a given. Nothing in all of that means anything other than he has been advised to not say anything.

I was predicting, not quoting.

Laxtonto · October 30, 2023

Just now, Tex Long said:

I was predicting, not quoting.

LOL

Well that was the gist of most of it...

WhatTheBuck · October 30, 2023

22 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

All things considered, the preferred outcome for many of us is an asteroid strike in Ann Arbor on November 11, or November 25, or both.

What good would an asteroid strike in Ann Arbor on November 11 do for you?

Tex Long · October 30, 2023

6 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

What good would an asteroid strike in Ann Arbor on November 11 do for you?

Keeps the grounds crew busy for two weeks.

Texasrocks · October 30, 2023

1 hour ago, Tex Long said:

The Pirate took care of this the old-fashion way. He only had like six plays, and they were all known by everybody. Whether it was a pass or a run, which way, and to whom it was given, the QB often didn't know until the play started, and even then it depended on who he was reading.

Harbaugh: "Why did you give me a 30 page transcript of what looks like a cooking show?"

Staffer: "Coach, that was Leach walking his QBs through their game plan for tomorrow."

Tex Long · October 30, 2023

17 minutes ago, Texasrocks said:

Harbaugh: "Why did you give me a 30 page transcript of what looks like a cooking show?"

Staffer: "Coach, that was Leach walking his QBs through their game plan for tomorrow."

Okay, listen up. We're going to plat Meatchicken tomorrow, and... uh, speaking of meat, what're we gonna do? I'll tell you. First, we're gonna start with a roux...

Doc Sam Beckett · October 30, 2023

51 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Fuck that shitbag. He acts surprised that people in the press are doing their jobs for once and actually asking him uncomfortable questions.

If you think hiring his brother to investigate Michigan makes Ryan Day a shitbag, then I hope you don't hear anything else about him.

By the way, I don't think Day did it. Hiring his brother, that is

Tex Long · October 30, 2023

One of the points in this whole thing is the fact, the undeniable fact, that Harbaugh is an extremely unlikable shitbag, with no discernible personality at all. Nothing there for anyone to hang a compliment on. If he has hair plugs, there's nothing separating him from MensaTom Herman other than being a pretty good football coach.

Coelenterate Fuccboi · October 30, 2023

3 hours ago, immamac said:

@Juicy seriously man you gotta fuck off from this thread. Your posts read like Texags shit. I’m a Michigan fan as well and this is straight up cheating as bad as it gets. I don’t think they are blowing people out because of this and I don’t know how many games it changed the outcome of, but that’s besides the point. The point is they fucking cheated and are cheaters whether they want to be or not or whether it was helpful or not. Just keep it to the news and commentary supporting this being not a death penalty punishment and you’ll be fine. You are well on your way to getting crowdsourced if you keep it up and I’m not going to fucking save you.

Might want to sit this one out as well, considering your attack on the Texas coaching staff and using Michigan as an example of where Texas should be, well AFTER the cheating allegations had come out.

closetojumping · October 31, 2023

1 hour ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

If you think hiring his brother to investigate Michigan makes Ryan Day a shitbag, then I hope you don't hear anything else about him.

By the way, I don't think Day did it. Hiring his brother, that is

I don’t think you quoted the right post. Mine wasn’t about Day or OSU. It was about Harbaugh’s behavior at his press conference.

That said, if it was actually Day that did the hiring, I’ll laugh and be surprised. I have been assuming that Vegas hired the investigative firm.

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Jim Harbaugh NO LONGER coaches at Michigan

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