Jim Harbaugh NO LONGER coaches at Michigan

[lilMAC25 4,005]

1 hour ago, PilotsError said:

They want the conference to act so they can get rid of a competitor, not because they’re morally outraged. 

Yes.
 

(And I’ll point out that I think Michigan should and will be punished for cheating).

[lilMAC25 4,005]

30 minutes ago, WinningIsHard said:

I have a honest question, if saban or kirby had to actually recruit instead of cheating their balls off would they be as successful? Do we have a couple more titles if we don't lose players to cheating ass paying programs over the last 25 years or so? I don't understand why the cheating has to be so obvious for anybody to do something about it. Michigan should pay, but so should every other cheating slimy shit hook program. 

[Tex Long 4,667]

2 hours ago, USNALonghorn said:

I wish it did, but it doesn’t. My time in service counter started when I graduated. There are some perks that being an academy grad gives you (lineal number bump for promotion), but a four year head start would be way too unfair in front of our ROTC counterparts.

Thank you, I appreciate you. I was puzzled and had gone and checked. Apparently it counts as service time for retirement purposes for enlisted grades (flunkouts who stay in?) but not officers, if I'm reading the legalese correctly. It apparently also counts for non-military fed service time retirement calculations and other purposes that do not refer to officers - again, if I'm reading correctly. Apparently, the dividing line begins upon commission, i.e. when one becomes an officer, which makes sense. Thanks, again.

[Francisco 2.0 32,609]

 

 

[closetojumping 65,531]

4 hours ago, choripan said:

FWIW, I played college football on the defensive side at a major D1 program (walk-on with some PT, not a real guy, though!).

There seems to be a thread here where the media, who has an obvious interest in keeping a story going, and internet people are making a big deal of this.

And with rare exception, most former players, former coaches, and current coaches without a vested interest are like "sign stealing, yeah, we've done it, they've done it. It's part of the game." For my part, I can say that against pretty much every team we played in the early 2000s, we had their signs and we also practiced until we got their favorite base 5-10 plays down cold.

So I don't see the big deal. Good on Meatchicken for being good at what everyone does. The only way I think Michigan meaningfully gets hurt on this is if the NCAA trumps up some sort of technicality.

Others have touched on it, but this take is so fucking weak that it is insulting. 

1) None of us need to have played football at a high level to be qualified to see this situation straight. Some folks did, of course, but that's an irrelevant element. This kind of cheating can be applied in any industry, sport or politics. We don't need to know what a fucking meathead thinks in order to have an opinion. People go to fucking prison for this in other environments.

2) Coaches spend thousands of hours a year trying to get a feel for what an opponent is going to do against them. I wonder why? 

Bluntly, if you can't understand that this level of sophistication gives a team a large and fundamental competitive advantage versus their opponent, then you have your head planted firmly up your asshole and none of us can help you. 

1 hour ago, PilotsError said:

They want the conference to act so they can get rid of a competitor, not because they’re morally outraged. 

I don't disagree, but I don't care anymore. These guys should not be allowed to compete in the playoffs. It's plain as day that they were cheating, the data backs it up, and people should be pissed the fuck off. I think coaches who feel wronged would feel both outrage and self-interest and I don't blame any of them.

39 minutes ago, WinningIsHard said:

I have a honest question, if saban or kirby had to actually recruit instead of cheating their balls off would they be as successful? Do we have a couple more titles if we don't lose players to cheating ass paying programs over the last 25 years or so? I don't understand why the cheating has to be so obvious for anybody to do something about it. Michigan should pay, but so should every other cheating slimy shit hook program. 

It's basically a Black Swan comparison. Mediocristan is where player talents and coaching talents reside. The best player in the nation at a position versus the worst player at the same position at the same level is a big gap, but it isn't the Grand Canyon. It's why Rice could beat Texas and App State could beat Michigan. All of the unknown variables about what 22 moving bodies are about to do still exist as the risk before every snap.

Having another team's signals married to their playcalls resides in Extremistan. The gap between knowing virtually everything the opponent is going to do versus the opponent just working off of film study and practices is not Grand Canyon wide, it's galaxies wide. You have suddenly removed most variables, which are virtually incalculable, for all 22 players' actions after the snap. It's no longer the same game being played. 

[jTower 251]

Did anyone else see this guy at the game?

[Parliament 14,618]

B1G coaches: “Ban Michigan from the post season.  You have the authority.  Use it.”

B1G Commish: “I do.  And banning them will cost each of you millions in bowl money cost sharing.  I’ll do it. Your call.  Tell me what to do.”

Coaches: (silence)

[Ten Bears 2,500]

5 hours ago, choripan said:

FWIW, I played college football on the defensive side at a major D1 program (walk-on with some PT, not a real guy, though!).

There seems to be a thread here where the media, who has an obvious interest in keeping a story going, and internet people are making a big deal of this.

And with rare exception, most former players, former coaches, and current coaches without a vested interest are like "sign stealing, yeah, we've done it, they've done it. It's part of the game." For my part, I can say that against pretty much every team we played in the early 2000s, we had their signs and we also practiced until we got their favorite base 5-10 plays down cold.

So I don't see the big deal. Good on Meatchicken for being good at what everyone does. The only way I think Michigan meaningfully gets hurt on this is if the NCAA trumps up some sort of technicality.

What years did you play for Michigan?

[someguy 1,567]

9 minutes ago, Parliament said:

B1G coaches: “Ban Michigan from the post season.  You have the authority.  Use it.”

B1G Commish: “I do.  And banning them will cost each of you millions in bowl money cost sharing.  I’ll do it. Your call.  Tell me what to do.”

Coaches: (silence)

how much money do you think Michigan would bring in?  The Big 10 distributes all bowl money equally.  A college football playoff spot garners about $6 million.  So assuming Michigan would make the CFP and no other Big 10 school would, that would mean the loss of $6 million over 14 teams, or about $425k.  

I'm guessing the schools aren't sweating that amount of money if they want to see Michigan punished.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,810]

A big issue for me is Harbaugh and Michigan up and down basically saying we didn't do anything wrong and if we did we weren't aware of it. Good luck with that.

[hullabelew 3,730]

Dipshits on sidelines?  

[closetojumping 65,531]

The more I think about this, the more the whole thing pisses me off. Cowardice and greed are running amok. 

The CFP isn't a function of the NCAA. Them saying they're tied to what the NCAA does is bullshit.

The Big 10 hasn't even opened an investigation on this yet. 

Stalions is still fully paid an employed by Michigan. This guy should have been straight-up fired long before right now. It's clearly a fucking payoff for silence. 

People in the media playing the "let's see what the facts are" to avoid offering an opinion, which they're paid to offer, should just be fired. Round them up at each org and fire them if they can't take a position on something like this and have a spine.

Michigan in the past few years has:

-Canceled a Home and Home with UCLA and replaced it with cupcakes

-Canceled a Home and Home with Arkansas and replaced it with cupcakes

-Ignored corona recruiting violations while competitors abided by the rules

-Had their HC in football lie to the NCAA about said recruiting violations

-Had an OC discovered using school equipment and data to stalk and contact students

-Has been caught red-handed in the largest playcalling espionage scandal in the history of the sport

-Has done nothing with their HC while the story unfolds. They've merely hidden behind the notion of the NCAA doing their work and therefore Michigan doesn't have to do anything on their own and won't talk about it either. 

Fuck these people and that school. At some point in the last 5 years, a bunch of coelenterates got together and decided that beating Ohio State and playing for titles was more important than having any integrity as human beings or as an institution. If the NCAA and the Big 10 let's them get away with this, I hope the decisionmakers all wind up with horrible demises to their careers, including shame and ignominy.

This kind of shit should matter. It matters to fans, who pay for all of this shit in one form or another, and having this team continue to work towards a playoff without a hint of repercussions makes a mockery of the sport and our collective interest. 

[Juicy 730]

Uncle Urban and I have the same opinion on something for once. He must be a slappy Michigan fan at heart. 

 

Quote

“This is really the first time, because it’s you and a guy I respect—so I’m very cautious,” Meyer said on the show, per On3 Sports. “I’ve been asked over 100 times to comment on it and I just won’t. But I am going to, I’ll tell you my thoughts: First of all I’m very skeptical of reporters reporting. My experience is they’re wrong most of the time. And that’s not a shot at the media, that’s reality. People say things that they’re reporting that’s just not true. So I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt saying, first of all it’s hard for me to believe that is true.”

 

[Billy Pilgrim 2,079]

2 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Uncle Urban and I have the same opinion on something for once. He must be a slappy Michigan fan at heart. 

 

 

This is the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen and I can’t believe you’re using it to prove your point.

[Juicy 730]

My point would be that it is advantageous for the media to make this look as scandalous as possible for clicks and views. Maybe it comes out that everything being reported is 100% true. Maybe after the investigation happens it comes out that it wasn't as bad as it currently appears. 

 

[Tex Pete 21,511]

2 minutes ago, Juicy said:

My point would be that it is advantageous for the media to make this look as scandalous as possible for clicks and views. Maybe it comes out that everything being reported is 100% true. Maybe after the investigation happens it comes out that it wasn't as bad as it currently appears. 

 

The media doesn’t need for it to “look scandalous.” It IS scandalous. 

[BabaYaga 15,631]

3 minutes ago, Juicy said:

My point would be that it is advantageous for the media to make this look as scandalous as possible for clicks and views. Maybe it comes out that everything being reported is 100% true. Maybe after the investigation happens it comes out that it wasn't as bad as it currently appears. 

 

[Deej 77,871]

10 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Uncle Urban and I have the same opinion on something for once. He must be a slappy Michigan fan at heart. 

 

 

Well, Urban is a proven liar, so at least you two have something in common.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,810]

[MrBig 5,651]

12 minutes ago, Juicy said:

My point would be that it is advantageous for the media to make this look as scandalous as possible for clicks and views. Maybe it comes out that everything being reported is 100% true. Maybe after the investigation happens it comes out that it wasn't as bad as it currently appears. 

 

This is one of the juiciest, most entertaining and scandalous stories to hit college football in a long time. It has cheating, espionage, military, ticket receipts, videos footage, security breaches, etc. And its mostly been crickets outside of those who are hardcore about college football.

No CR, but I think Fox prefers to gloss over it because they have the rights to the Big Ten games. Do advertisers pull out because it’s a league of cheaters? Should Fox lean in and open up the vault of Big Ten games to drive eyeballs to their streaming sites? I’m sure tons of people would love to go back and stream lots of old Big Ten games looking for crazy shit on the sidelines. 

I’m sure everyone is hesitant to make a big move because new stuff keeps coming out almost daily.

[Billy Pilgrim 2,079]

17 minutes ago, Juicy said:

My point would be that it is advantageous for the media to make this look as scandalous as possible for clicks and views. Maybe it comes out that everything being reported is 100% true. Maybe after the investigation happens it comes out that it wasn't as bad as it currently appears. 

 

You’re quoting a guy who has an ax to grind against the media because they bring all the shitty stuff he does to light.

[JBJ 3,830]

6 hours ago, choripan said:

FWIW, I played college football on the defensive side at a major D1 program (walk-on with some PT, not a real guy, though!).

...

For my part, I can say that against pretty much every team we played in the early 2000s, we had their signs and we also practiced until we got their favorite base 5-10 plays down cold.

Lol.  How many of your opponents used offensive sideline signals in the early 2000s?  

[Huckleberry 34,749]

18 minutes ago, Juicy said:

My point would be that it is advantageous for the media to make this look as scandalous as possible for clicks and views. Maybe it comes out that everything being reported is 100% true. Maybe after the investigation happens it comes out that it wasn't as bad as it currently appears. 

 

You get dumber with every post. This isn't reporters saying things. There are pictures. And videos. People are seeing things with their own eyes. 

You would think that Urban Meyer being your moral center might tip you off as to how stupid you're being but I suppose you're fully committed at this point. 

[Dark Horse 2,436]

Who you going to trust, Urban fucking Meyer or your own lying eyes?

 

[Pam Cummings 9,885]

Lulz. Guys! The biggest liar and piece of shit in the sport thinks its a media conspiracy! Must be true!

[BigHornedLurker 2,182]

7 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

You get dumber with every post. This isn't reporters saying things. There are pictures. And videos. People are seeing things with their own eyes. 

This is where I'm at on the topic, there are pictures and paper trails that are known things. This isn't some large circumstantial issue, the opponents signals are on laminated sheets on the Michigan sidelines. 

On National Broadcast Video and Pictures from the stands. 

There is no other rational explanation, the evidence is there, the will to do anything about it is the only thing in question. 

I think its still an open question if there are other scandals, further evidence of deeper organizational involvement, but those punishments do not need to be tied together. 

Case 1 is effectively concluded, and so should its punishment 

Edited November 2, 2023 by BigHornedLurker

[Hmbre97 6,337]

This is how I picture Juicy reading through this thread as new evidence gets released/posted

[Juicy 730]

23 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

You forgot "Lone Wolf"

Just now, Hmbre97 said:

This is how I picture Juicy reading through this thread as new evidence gets released/posted

Its pretty close. 

[Laxtonto 13,328]

8 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

It's basically a Black Swan comparison. Mediocristan is where player talents and coaching talents reside. The best player in the nation at a position versus the worst player at the same position at the same level is a big gap, but it isn't the Grand Canyon. It's why Rice could beat Texas and App State could beat Michigan. All of the unknown variables about what 22 moving bodies are about to do still exist as the risk before every snap.

Having another team's signals married to their playcalls resides in Extremistan. The gap between knowing virtually everything the opponent is going to do versus the opponent just working off of film study and practices is not Grand Canyon wide, it's galaxies wide. You have suddenly removed most variables, which are virtually incalculable, for all 22 players' actions after the snap. It's no longer the same game being played. 

I think some people want to naively fall back into the idea that the player still has to make a play and ignore the concept that all plays are not independent of each other.

Having any one play in itself is a huge advantage from the players standpoint, but when it gets outlandish is when you know it multiple plays in a row from a play caller’s standpoint . What then compounds it is when you know it multiple plays in a row and it lets you then dictate situational play calling.

So you know the play calls and see reactive on D and so you force more 3 and outs or limit times the O crosses midfield. Now because of it, you are forcing the opposing D to play more and become fatigued. So even if you can’t react as dynamically on O yourself, you are wearing down the defense more and more and steadily winning the battle of field position.

Where this then gets even worse is now you have opponents getting behind sooner and therefore needing to be more aggressive in play calling, which tend to have to lead to plays with a  large boom or bust component to begin with, but now you know what most of the calls are… Any play call you don’t recognize you signal to the D to play conservative and limit a potential big play. Any trick play or high leverage situation you know the play call for would lead to that much higher likelihood of a big loss of yards…

The whole thing is a fucking spiral. Know the plays, limit their O, which puts their D on the field more plus the advantage they f knowing their sideline calls to audible, which leads to more scoring/tired D, which leads to a more aggressive opponents O, which leads to bigger loss of yards, and you back on O against a tired D again….

[gatormarc 938]

18 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

You’re quoting a guy who has an ax to grind against the media because they bring all the shitty stuff he does to light.

He's always had an adversarial role with regards to the media.

Back at Florida, he verbally attacked an Orlando Sentinel reporter for quoting a Florida player comparing Tebow to Brantley and threatened to ban the paper from practice for 5 years.

[ClubWhatever 12,324]

Huh, so Urban did it too

[closetojumping 65,531]

3 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

I think some people want to naively fall back into the idea that the player still has to make a play and ignore the concept that all plays are not independent of each other.

Having any one play in itself is a huge advantage from the players standpoint, but when it gets outlandish is when you know it multiple plays in a row from a play caller’s standpoint . What then compounds it is when you know it multiple plays in a row and it lets you then dictate situational play calling.

So you know the play calls and see reactive on D and so you force more 3 and outs or limit times the O crosses midfield. Now because of it, you are forcing the opposing D to play more and become fatigued. So even if you can’t react as dynamically on O yourself, you are wearing down the defense more and more and steadily winning the battle of field position.

Where this then gets even worse is now you have opponents getting behind sooner and therefore needing to be more aggressive in play calling, which tend to have to lead to plays with a  large boom or bust component to begin with, but now you know what most of the calls are… Any play call you don’t recognize you signal to the D to play conservative and limit a potential big play. Any trick play or high leverage situation you know the play call for would lead to that much higher likelihood of a big loss of yards…

The whole thing is a fucking spiral. Know the plays, limit their O, which puts their D on the field more plus the advantage they f knowing their sideline calls to audible, which leads to more scoring/tired D, which leads to a more aggressive opponents O, which leads to bigger loss of yards, and you back on O against a tired D again….

Great points. The whole issue is nonlinear. It's part of what makes the whole "hurrrrrrrr, duurrrrrrrr, you still gotta make the play!" nonsense, spouted by players and coaches who aren't particularly bright, along with various talking heads, just fucking laughable. You don't have to make one play with the odds stacked against. You have to make all of the plays with the odds against you, and if you fail to, the problem augments on you at great speed.

Overly simplified chaos theory is another way to look at a football game and each team's plans. Each team starts with a set of plans and players, then the game starts, 22 variables interact on each play and things fractal out into the unknown as the game unfolds. If one side is able to govern the variables and environment in some form, however, they're no longer operating on the same theoretical playing field and in far higher degree of control of the overall outcome.

Sure, no advantage there alright.

[WinningIsHard 4,171]

the notion that former football players aren't that upset about teams knowing their plays as they are called is most likely only true in the case of the bad mother fuckers on the field. Ricky williams, vince young, adrian peterson, Suh, derrick johnson, leonard davis, etc. These are guys who can whip peoples asses 1 on 1 even if the other guy knows what's coming. It's bullshit for the rest of the population which is 99%. I remember playing at mary hardin baylor as a freshman and the worst plays were when your coach would say "line it up and run it again", the other side knew what was coming and it was a shit show. LB's would smash into gaps with reckless abandon, safeties would crash down full speed. It fucking sucked. If I was looking across at all conference or all american defensive players and they knew what was coming....ball game. 

[hullabelew 3,730]

31 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Lol.  How many of your opponents used offensive sideline signals in the early 2000s?  

Not sure what you mean by this but high schools have used offensive and defensive sideline signals since the 70s.  We had two coaches sending the play in with signals.  One was live, the other was a dummy.  

['stache 22,146]

Urban: “Social media is bad too. Someone reported that Harbaugh was fingering some young coed’s butthole at a bar. I don’t believe those stories are true.”

[JBJ 3,830]

7 minutes ago, hullabelew said:

Not sure what you mean by this but high schools have used offensive and defensive sideline signals since the 70s.  We had two coaches sending the play in with signals.  One was live, the other was a dummy.  

No.  Defensive signals were common. Offensive signals weren't at all.  We had zero offensive signals.  Even in two minute we used a rote script and audible calls.  Nothing was ever signaled in from the sideline.

I only ever played one team that used offensive signals.

[hullabelew 3,730]

4 minutes ago, JBJ said:

No.  Defensive signals were common. Offensive signals weren't at all.  We had zero offensive signals.  Even in two minute we used a rote script and audible calls.  Nothing was ever signaled in from the sideline.

I only ever played one team that used offensive signals.

In 1978, our small 2A school signaled in off/def plays from the sidelines. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by hullabelew

[JBJ 3,830]

3 minutes ago, hullabelew said:

In 1978, our small 2A school signaled in off/def plays from the sidelines.  

Seems weird to me. I played Tx 5A D3 and D1 in the late 90s- early 00s.

Maybe it fell out of favor and came back with HUNH.

[conVINCEd 21,477]

We ran the option.  No need to steal our signals.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,810]

1 hour ago, Juicy said:

Uncle Urban and I have the same opinion on something for once. He must be a slappy Michigan fan at heart. 

 

 

or currently be employed by a TV network that has a vested interest in the Big10.  He's on the opposing team of the ESPN is pushing an agenda argument.

 

[Laxtonto 13,328]

So I don’t know of you guys ever saw it, but 4 or 5 years ago there was a great video about developing a phone app to crack baseball signals. It is a super simple concept and something my undergrads can do.

What I am curious with now is how hard is it to do the same thing in real time with in game sign data? Or is this even a topic I should be saying out loud? All it is is an im sequence identification algorithm overlayed with some type of formational concept. 
 

I wonder how many play calls would it take to reach a point where you could accurately determine a set of signals were pass or run? How many to get deeper into things like route trees or run direction… 

I am fairly sure this could be something that could be done in real time and develop an app that gets put on the sideline and press box ipads. You could even take away the manual component and set up a camera in game and live capture their signs and load it straight into the machine….

Ill shut up now before this opens Pandora’s box..

[JBJ 3,830]

7 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

We ran the option.  No need to steal our signals.

West coast flex bone. Maybe our playcalls were just too complicated to signal.

[Gucci_Suit 2,829]

51 minutes ago, hullabelew said:

Not sure what you mean by this but high schools have used offensive and defensive sideline signals since the 70s.  We had two coaches sending the play in with signals.  One was live, the other was a dummy.  

Confirmed. 

[Wally Fairway 5,678]

1 hour ago, Juicy said:

Uncle Urban and I have the same opinion on something for once. He must be a slappy Michigan fan at heart. 

Could it be that in your heart that Juicy is a Florida/Tebow and OSU fan?
just askin

[Steamboat1874 4,391]

Give every player on offense and defense a wristband with all of the plays numbered.

Send the play number in from the sidelines which can by done by three or four guys with only one of them being "Hot".

Change the wristbands every quarter.

Problem solved.

[ruitxn 299]

5 minutes ago, Gucci_Suit said:

Confirmed. 

Two coaches on the sidelines sending real and dummy plays.  No wonder you lost.

[Hagbard Celine 11,289]

3 hours ago, closetojumping said:

Extremistan

ipso facto, meatchicken didn't have roach signs, but georgia did

Edited November 2, 2023 by Hagbard Celine
derp

[89Horn 1,742]

1 hour ago, MrBig said:

This is one of the juiciest, most entertaining and scandalous stories to hit college football in a long time. It has cheating, espionage, military, ticket receipts, videos footage, security breaches, etc. And its mostly been crickets outside of those who are hardcore about college football.

No CR, but I think Fox prefers to gloss over it because they have the rights to the Big Ten games. Do advertisers pull out because it’s a league of cheaters? Should Fox lean in and open up the vault of Big Ten games to drive eyeballs to their streaming sites? I’m sure tons of people would love to go back and stream lots of old Big Ten games looking for crazy shit on the sidelines. 

I’m sure everyone is hesitant to make a big move because new stuff keeps coming out almost daily.

I agree with your post.  I just LOLd at the bolded part because it sounded like Stefon on SNL news describing the new hottest bar in Washington DC.

[gatormarc 938]

20 minutes ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Give every player on offense and defense a wristband with all of the plays numbered.

Send the play number in from the sidelines which can by done by three or four guys with only one of them being "Hot".

Change the wristbands every quarter.

Problem solved.

Just don't grab the wrong wristbands

-2019 Florida vs Georgia

Edited November 2, 2023 by gatormarc

[hornbri 1,511]

NSIAP

https://theathletic.com/5024796/2023/11/02/big-ten-coaches-call-michigan-sign-stealing/?source=twitterhq

Spoiler

Big Ten football coaches frustrated with conference stance on Michigan: ‘We want something done now’

For the past two weeks, coaches across college football have been riveted by the alleged Michigan sign-stealing scheme, but inside the Big Ten, the topic has been more than just a curiosity. On Wednesday’s Big Ten coaches video call with commissioner Tony Petitti, and after Jim Harbaugh left the call, that frustration was voiced loud and clear, according to conference coaches, who said they don’t feel like the new Big Ten commissioner is “motivated” to do anything about the Wolverines.

“There is just a ton of frustration,” a Big Ten coach told The Athletic on Thursday morning. “Look at Jim Harbaugh’s record before this started. The guy was on the hot seat before 2021, and now he’s like the king of college football. … No doubt this all has had a profound effect.

“This guy’s being investigated for three different things now between the (alleged) illegal signal stealing, the (alleged) illegal recruiting during COVID and that investigation into the offensive coordinator and alleged computer hacking. There are guys (on that call) who could lose jobs, and then there’s this guy over here (Harbaugh) who is gonna get a new, bigger contract now, and they won’t do anything about him.”

Asked to describe the tone of the coaches’ sentiment expressed to Petitti, another Big Ten coach called it “angry” — particularly at the Big Ten’s lack of action, or even apparent interest in taking any.

“Everybody’s upset,” that coach told The Athletic. “Why is nothing being done? We want to know, what else do you need to know to take action? We (the Big Ten head coaches) want something done now. I don’t think people understand the advantage that what they’re (allegedly) doing gives you. People think, ‘OK, now that everybody knows, we all can just move on.’ Like, ‘now, it’s fair.’ Well, no, it isn’t. Not at all. This changes the way you operate. A lot of teams have been doing things a certain way for years. Now, it’s forcing you to teach your players a whole new way to communicate just for them. People think that this is just advanced scouting. This was damn near espionage.”

A third Big Ten head coach told The Athletic that this is “one of the most egregious breaches in the spirit of the game” he’s ever heard of.

“They (Michigan) have been manipulating the game and cheating the game for two-and-a-half years. To know exactly what the other team is doing, Michigan might as well have been playing with 15 guys on the field,” he said. “What’s the message the Big Ten is sending now by doing nothing? Win now, pay later? We might as well just send people to (scout) their practices and their games. It doesn’t encourage anybody to follow the rules. It’s just telling them to do the opposite and say, f— it.”

GO DEEPER

Michigan should be punished, say 94% of CFB coaches in our poll. What else did it reveal?

The NCAA is investigating Michigan’s football program amid allegations that the Wolverines used illegal in-person scouting and the recording of signals to steal signs this season. Ahead of the Michigan-Michigan State game on Oct. 21, the Big Ten approached MSU and said it was made aware of “credible evidence” regarding the sign-stealing allegations. The Big Ten said it would monitor the NCAA’s investigation into Michigan.

“The Big Ten is so much more powerful than the NCAA,” that third Big Ten coach said. “Why are you just sitting back and doing nothing about this? The Big Ten can’t pound its chest for the last 30 years about how it does the right thing ethically (when other conferences like the SEC won’t) and then have this go on. If this were a team in the bottom half of the Big Ten, would this be handled in the same way?

“When a running back gets hurt against Michigan because they knew exactly what play was coming, will that kid and his family have the ability to sue the Big Ten?”

The NCAA investigation is ongoing, a process that typically moves slowly, which makes it difficult to imagine it will reach a resolution by the time the postseason begins. The Big Ten does have the ability to act under its sportsmanship policy, but that doesn’t mean that it would want to act quickly or decisively before the NCAA completes its entire investigation and allows Michigan a chance to respond to its findings.

This is an unprecedented situation; whatever Petitti decides to do (or not do) will set a precedent. The Big Ten itself doesn’t have investigators, so it needs to rely upon the NCAA to do that part — and to determine who else was involved in the alleged scouting scheme. It’s not clear exactly what the coaches would want the league to do to punish Michigan; banning the team from competing in the Big Ten championship, for example, would harm players who had nothing to do with the sign-stealing apparatus.

A source briefed on the coaches’ call said Big Ten coaches are concerned about whether Michigan “should represent the Big Ten.”

“No matter what happens, if Michigan continues to move forward, the clouds will follow,” the source said. “They’re reading the tea leaves and wondering why the Big Ten hasn’t done anything yet. Every week and every day that goes by, people are like, ‘Something’s gotta give.’ It’s getting a little bit out of hand when you see him (allegedly) on the Central Michigan sideline. The playing field is not level right now. How can you have a team that you know has a competitive advantage over you still being allowed to play? That’s what the coaches are grappling with.”

“It feels like (former commissioner) Kevin (Warren) taking over and then COVID,” the source continued. “Tony’s walking into this situation, and people are calling for the league to make a statement before they have all the facts.”

Despite frustration from all corners of the conference, sources at four different Big Ten schools said they do not expect the conference to levy any sort of punishment against Michigan before the season ends.

Earlier this week, Central Michigan said it is investigating whether suspended Michigan staffer Connor Stalions was on the CMU sideline during the Chippewas’ Sept. 1 game at Michigan State. Screenshots of a person who looks similar to Stalions began circulating online Monday night, and The Athletic obtained more photos of the person on the sideline Tuesday.

Stalions, who was suspended with pay by Michigan on Oct. 20, is at the center of the NCAA’s investigation into the alleged scouting and sign-stealing scheme. Stalions bought tickets to games in at least seven Big Ten stadiums before those teams played the Wolverines over the past three seasons, including the 2023 season, sources told The Athletic last month. Purchasing the tickets is not a violation of NCAA rules, but using them to scout and record other teams would violate the rules, prohibiting in-person, on-campus scouting and the audio or video recording of signals.

On Monday, coach Jim Harbaugh met with reporters and said “the people that know us the most think the most of us” as Michigan faces the NCAA investigation. He has denied knowledge of the alleged scouting.

Required reading

• Jim Harbaugh’s turbulent Michigan 2023 timeline: From NFL rumors to an NCAA investigation
• Third-party investigative firm brought information regarding Michigan sign-stealing to NCAA: Source
• Jim Harbaugh promised a ‘gold standard’ for Michigan football NCAA compliance. What now?

(Photo: Rick Osentoski / USA Today)

Great quotes in there. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by hornbri