Dallas Cowboys 2019 Season Thread -- Aaaah Zeke Out?

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

7 minutes ago, anacardo said:

This puzzles me too.  Vander Esch looked like one of the best natural tacklers I'd ever seen in my life to my less-than-expert eye his rookie year.  So good at just dusting dudes right at the point of contact; they drop or they go backwards, no yards after contact.  This year he looks like he's showing just occasional flashes of those kinds of plays that used to be pretty much automatic.  Can't figure it out.  

I have a feeling LVE is a little banged up. The real puzzling one is Jaylen Smith. He’s just a liability when he’s doing anything other than blitzing right now.

[futureman 22473]

31 minutes ago, anacardo said:

This year he looks like he's showing just occasional flashes of those kinds of plays that used to be pretty much automatic.  Can't figure it out

he’s playing hurt.  

[Patrick Bateman 3916]

2 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Apparently this play was an RPO and the coverage dictated that he should hand the ball off. Obviously didn’t expect Fredrick (or Connor?) to get beat as badly as they did. 
 

not sure if that’s true at all, but that’s what’s been floating around Cowboys Twitter. 

Safety didn't show in the box and came head up on the TE, so showing 6 in the box and 1 on 1 blocking.  If it's a RPO, you go with the run which is what we did.  Connor is supposed to strike and then get to the second level as he has to get across the face of Kendricks, the LB.  He does a piss poor job of striking but even so, the tackle is Frederick's man and I have no idea what he's doing.  It's like he doesn't even realize where folks are and takes a false step upfield rather than coming to drive the tackle out of the play.  His 2nd down whiff is even more fucking egregious.  It's all in the link above with Baldinger. 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Patrick Bateman

[dcar00 14243]

3 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

This pic says it all. But more than that, why in the fuck are we running a run play towards him with the game on the line? 

this play specifically.  if you watch the broadcast connor is supposed to double and then climb to the linebacker.  the DL slants and Connor gives a half hearted bump and releases.  Frederick is unable to get to the DL.  you can see frederick get pissed after the play.  I'm not sure if he's pissed at himself or pissed at Connor.

[Catdaddyhorn 3446]

2 hours ago, futureman said:

dak is the luckiest qb in the league.  should have thrown two pick sixes last night and about five in the last three weeks.  he throws some horrifically bad balls.  the fact that it hasn’t been more of an issue is similar to having a high BABIP in baseball; he will stop being so lucky in short order.  

but, he isn’t winning games anyway so it might be irrelevant. 

There are plenty of advanced metrics that say you're completely wrong about this, but as usual you don't care and will continue spouting your bullshit all over this board. 

[futureman 22473]

Just now, Catdaddyhorn said:

There are plenty of advanced metrics that say you're completely wrong about this, but as usual you don't care and will continue spouting your bullshit all over this board. 

I’d love to see them.  you know, if they exist. 

[dcar00 14243]

It wouldn't surprise me if Zimmer knew what looks to throw to get Dak to give. the most egregious thing is if we just check to a stop route at the marker at the top of the screen its a first down.

Dak needs to start overriding ginger and the boise state puppet

[gsoda3 3263]

It wouldn't surprise me if Zimmer knew what looks to throw to get Dak to give. the most egregious thing is if we just check to a stop route at the marker at the top of the screen its a first down.
Dak needs to start overriding ginger and the boise state puppet

The entire first half Minnesota got Dak to audible in to runs on first downs.

[anacardo 217]

21 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

It wouldn't surprise me if Zimmer knew what looks to throw to get Dak to give. the most egregious thing is if we just check to a stop route at the marker at the top of the screen its a first down.

Dak needs to start overriding ginger and the boise state puppet

You're asking him to go full Peyton; full Romo.  That's heady air to draw. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3446]

I’d love to see them.  you know, if they exist. 

There's more in depth stuff than this, but here's a look at the league leaders in % of bad throws.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/passing_advanced.htm

[Catdaddyhorn 3446]

He's up there in a similar spot for balls thrown in harms way as well which explicitly negates what you implied up above. 

[anacardo 217]

  If you very crudely call the third-easiest strength of schedule and the shackles of Gingerball a wash, I find it difficult to argue that Dak hasn't been a top 5 QB itl this season.  

Dude was a straight up monster last night.  If we'd found a way to win in spite of ourselves it would go down as one of the signature victories of his career to date. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by anacardo

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

this play specifically.  if you watch the broadcast connor is supposed to double and then climb to the linebacker.  the DL slants and Connor gives a half hearted bump and releases.  Frederick is unable to get to the DL.  you can see frederick get pissed after the play.  I'm not sure if he's pissed at himself or pissed at Connor.

Fredrick was clearly pissed off at someone (not himself). Either Connor, or the coaching staff because of the miscommunication, but he was visibly pissed off at someone. First time I’ve seen him like that.

[Catdaddyhorn 3446]

Watching the replay it's clear as day that Connor was supposed to engage on the double team way more than he did. As @gsoda3 said time has to pass before Connor moves on to block the LB to avoid a potential penalty on a pass.  

[Blanton 170]

8 hours ago, RoyalBevo21 said:

Agreed. I know he's a Horn and we love our Texas exes, but Connor is extremely mediocre.

More so bad than mediocre IMO

[futureman 22473]

6 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

There's more in depth stuff than this, but here's a look at the league leaders in % of bad throws.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/passing_advanced.htm

‘bout what I expected from you.

he threw two balls that easily should have been pick sixes on sunday and about five in the past three weeks.  he throws some horrifically bad balls.  and you offered exactly nothing to disprove it. 

[Landomatic 3813]

7 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

He's up there in a similar spot for balls thrown in harms way as well which explicitly negates what you implied up above. 

Not necessarily.  There have absolutely been several throws that he was really lucky weren't picked.  Your stats just show a total number of throws that fall into that category.  It doesn't account for the "when they're bad, they're REALLY bad" factor.  I think that's what @futureman was getting at.  And I agree with him.  There's "that was an ill-advised throw, he's probably lucky it wasn't picked" and then there's "holy shit what a horrible fucking throw, how the fuck did that not get picked, that lucky mother fucker" and Dak has had a lot of the latter.

I don't think there are stats that differentiate between the two (or I'm missing it if there are), but there is definitely a difference.  I know it's mostly a bit for @futureman, but there is no doubt Dak is one of those weird anomaly QBs whose numbers on paper don't always match up with the old eye test on the field.

I guess that's the reason for the phrase "stats can be misleading".

Edited November 12, 2019 by Landomatic

[C-Man 27230]

Connor is having knee surgery today. Sorry if that was mentioned. Didn't see it if it was.

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2019/11/11/20960334/report-connor-williams-to-have-knee-surgery-on-tuesday-xavier-sua-filo-will-start-in-his-absence

Quote

Sunday night was rough on the Dallas Cowboys as they lost their fourth game of the season, a gut-wrenching defeat against the Minnesota Vikings.

It was a consequential loss for Dallas in more ways than one, though. In his day-after press conference Jason Garrett told the world that left guard Connor Williams was a bit banged up in the loss. Apparently it was slightly severe as he’s going to have surgery on Tuesday. Xavier Su’a-Filo will start in his place.

Michael Gehlken

 

✔@GehlkenNFL

 

 

Cowboys LG Connor Williams to undergo arthroscopic knee surgery on Tuesday. Xavier Su’a-Filo will start in his absence. Optimism he will avoid injured reserve.

 

49

4:54 PM - Nov 11, 2019

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20 people are talking about this

 

 

 

As the Cowboys are hopeful that Connor will avoid injured reserve that means they think he’ll be back in a few weeks. There are only seven weeks left in the season so it’s hard to know just how long they anticipate him being absent, plus the Cowboys are almost two weeks away from playing on short rest on Thanksgiving Day.

Xavier Su’a-Filo had moments of promise when he filled in for Williams last season, but he also had some moments of struggle. Here’s hoping we get a lot of the former as the Cowboys need to get back on track quickly.

 

[hookem48 4700]

12 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

 

i blame connor more than frederick there.  connor should've engaged him before getting to the second level.  you can't just stick a hand out there at the snap. 

 

also if it was an RPO why would connor have looked to get downfield that quickly?  we would've been flagged if dak had chosen to pass. 

 

well Frederick damn sure though it was someone else's fault, he immediately started screaming at the coaches on the sideline 

[JimmyJames 12271]

7 hours ago, Blanton said:

More so bad than mediocre IMO

My uninformed opinion is that he’s playing out of position.

[Vic Mackey 47080]

Lmao this coaching staff

[Vic Mackey 47080]

Garrett wastes so much talent. But of course, you will have certain people still blame Dak after every single loss...

 

[C-Man 27230]

Bucs release Vernon Hargreaves. Should the Cowboys have any interest? He's got two career INTs in 35 games so he would seem to fit right in.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 hour ago, Vic Mackey said:

Lmao this coaching staff

This is unbelievable, but also very predictable lol. Anyone with common sense knows that Tavon Austin was told to fair catch that ball. That’s why he’s in the league. To return punts. You really think he’s going to fair catch a ball with that much space in front of him when that’s literally the only reason he’s in the league. 

[C-Man 27230]

4 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

This is unbelievable, but also very predictable lol. Anyone with common sense knows that Tavon Austin was told to fair catch that ball. That’s why he’s in the league. To return punts. You really think he’s going to fair catch a ball with that much space in front of him when that’s literally the only reason he’s in the league. 

Not to mention I think he's already waiving his arm in the air as soon as the ball leaves the punter's foot. I think that might've had something to do with Tavon having space in front of him as some Vikings slowed up.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 minute ago, C-Man said:

Not to mention I think he's already waiving his arm in the air as soon as the ball leaves the punter's foot. I think that might've had something to do with Tavon having space in front of him as some Vikings slowed up.

They assumed we were going to try to block the punt. They weren’t set up for punt return coverage. Maybe it’s a combination of both, but they were definitely more focused on making sure their punt didn’t get blocked.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

 

Did anyone else catch this last night lol. 

[Drew 2492]

22 hours ago, Pimphand said:

I don't know why this continues to be so fucking funny, but easily my favorite meme in any setting right now. pos rep.

20 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Unless something has drastically changed from last year, XSF is a better guard than Connor right now. It seems like Connor got his job back because of a lot of politics, because XSF didn’t lose his job last year. He got hurt near the end of the year and Connor stepped in and played well enough. But that’s your 2nd round pick, and XSF is a guy that anyone could’ve signed. 
 

Just makes you wonder what’s really going on, because we ran the ball pretty damn effectively last year with Looney and XSF. Not saying they’re better, but we got better results last year. Maybe it’s Zeke, maybe Fredrick has regressed more than we could’ve imagined, who knows.

Dude no.  XSF WAS better than Connor through 8 games last year.  There's no denying that.  Over the last half Connor went from being as good to flat better.  He was clearly better in the offseason and preseason(just check practice/game reports and twitter feeds from back then).

Now I'm not saying he's been great or even good.  But he's definitely better than XSF is right now and just about any football guy says so.  If you want to move on from Conner XSF is a down grade for sure.

19 hours ago, RoyalBevo21 said:

Agreed. I know he's a Horn and we love our Texas exes, but Connor is extremely mediocre.

He's been up and down.  Some games he's been good, some bad.  Definition of mediocre.  Doesn't mean he's a bust, but it doesn't help that he's automatically the worst offensive lineman on this team. Stands out more. 

Still hope McGovern steps up next season.

8 hours ago, futureman said:

‘bout what I expected from you.

he threw two balls that easily should have been pick sixes on sunday and about five in the past three weeks.  he throws some horrifically bad balls.  and you offered exactly nothing to disprove it. 

Except the actual stat's that back up exactly what he says?

I know it's fun and low hanging fruit to trash Dak for 2-3 throws a game that are bad...but you don't EVER hear that about the same amount of throws other QB's have that are just as bad.  Curse of being the Cowboys QB and over scrutinized.  We sat here last year and trashed him for missing a deep throw every game, but when you watch other games you see other QB's, even the great Brees and Rodgers, missing open WR's deep as well.

[Junior Miller 1502]

For some crazy reason Connor Williams playing guard looks like an undersized athletic tackle trying to play guard. 

Kind of like when La'el Collins was played at guard and looked like shit before getting injured after only 3 games. 

They should have just moved Williams to swing tackle in camp and admitted they fucked up taking a tackle in the 2nd round because they didn't anticipate resigning Collins. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Junior Miller

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

@Drew

I don’t know what “football guys” you’re listening to lol but if they’re an employee or the Dallas cowboys you have to understand that politics are in play right now. 2nd rd pick vs guy we picked up off the street. I’m not necessarily saying that you’re wrong, but I’ve never seen XSF make the glaring mistakes that Connor has. He’s clearly stronger, and I want my guard to be able to get a push. And I don’t care what the practice reports say. Do it in a games. I know what I’ve seen from Connor in games, and it’s below average (outside of the rams game last year, which looks like an anomaly at this point)

[Catdaddyhorn 3446]

Not necessarily.  There have absolutely been several throws that he was really lucky weren't picked.  Your stats just show a total number of throws that fall into that category.  It doesn't account for the "when they're bad, they're REALLY bad" factor.  I think that's what [mention=430]futureman[/mention] was getting at.  And I agree with him.  There's "that was an ill-advised throw, he's probably lucky it wasn't picked" and then there's "holy shit what a horrible fucking throw, how the fuck did that not get picked, that lucky mother fucker" and Dak has had a lot of the latter.
I don't think there are stats that differentiate between the two (or I'm missing it if there are), but there is definitely a difference.  I know it's mostly a bit for [mention=430]futureman[/mention], but there is no doubt Dak is one of those weird anomaly QBs whose numbers on paper don't always match up with the old eye test on the field.
I guess that's the reason for the phrase "stats can be misleading".

You can stick with the "stats are for losers" camp, but if you don't mind I'll rely on empirical data.

Here's 2018 adjusted interceptions data which factors in the type of passes you're describing. Dak was 8th in the league in adjusted interceptions rate.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/adjusted-interceptions-2018

[Catdaddyhorn 3446]

Here's a description of the type of passes they're tallying.

[Landomatic 3813]

15 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

You can stick with the "stats are for losers" camp, but if you don't mind I'll rely on empirical data.

Here's 2018 adjusted interceptions data which factors in the type of passes you're describing. Dak was 8th in the league in adjusted interceptions rate.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/adjusted-interceptions-2018

Never said stats are for losers.  I love stats.  I probably refer to them as much as anyone on this site when I'm in a football argument discussion.  But, they don't always tell the whole story.  Plus your numbers are from last year.  I'm talking about this year.  Particularly in the games we lost.  There were some head-scratcher throws for sure.  Maybe that's normal for every QB in the league?  I don't know, I don't watch much NFL outside the Cowboys.

[Trey3216 15347]

6 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

Never said stats are for losers.  I love stats.  I probably refer to them as much as anyone on this site when I'm in a football argument discussion.  But, they don't always tell the whole story.  Plus your numbers are from last year.  I'm talking about this year.  Particularly in the games we lost.  There were some head-scratcher throws for sure.  Maybe that's normal for every QB in the league?  I don't know, I don't watch much NFL outside the Cowboys.

Have you accounted for the scenarios that the offense has been in re:the losses?    Behind, gotta catch up, be aggressive, et al.    

[Catdaddyhorn 3446]

As far as I can tell football outsiders evaluates this stat after the season is over. I think his rate will increase in this area compared to last year due to the obvious change in making riskier throws this season.  However given the fact that his numbers in other areas that tend to track with adjusted ints (ie expected completion % vs actual completion %) I doubt he'll fall outside the top 12. Dak is straight up slinging the ball around this year,  and he is performing far beyond what I thought he was capable of. Unfortunately with our risk averse HC and extremely overrated defense it will probably all go to waste.  

[Blanton 170]

5 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

My uninformed opinion is that he’s playing out of position.

Not tall/athletic enough to be an NFL tackle

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 minutes ago, Blanton said:

Not tall/athletic enough to be an NFL tackle

Well he doesn’t appear to be strong enough to be an NFL guard. I think he could be an adequate to good NFL right tackle. Not ideal size but I think he has enough athleticism to pull that off. He had enough to be an excellent left tackle in college.

[Blanton 170]

3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Well he doesn’t appear to be strong enough to be an NFL guard. I think he could be an adequate to good NFL right tackle. Not ideal size but I think he has enough athleticism to pull that off. He had enough to be an excellent left tackle in college.

He cashed in on a really good season and good on him for doing so. 

Had Connor played longer in college, he would've probably had a less than stellar sample size for NFL GM's to evaluate him on. 

[Junior Miller 1502]

2 hours ago, Blanton said:

Not tall/athletic enough to be an NFL tackle

He's very athletic and definitely athletic enough to be in NFL tackle. 

Is he long enough to be an NFL left tackle for a right-handed quarterback? There's definitely doubt there

His most likely position to succeed is right tackle. He's definitely athletic enough and he has enough size if he really works at it to be a good NFL right tackle. Especially if he got into a zone scheme where he can utilize that quickness moreso than a power blocking scheme

Edited November 13, 2019 by Junior Miller

[Blanton 170]

16 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

He's very athletic and definitely athletic enough to be in NFL tackle. 

Is he long enough to be an NFL left tackle for a right-handed quarterback? There's definitely doubt there

His most likely position to succeed is right tackle. He's definitely athletic enough and he has enough size if he really works at it to be a good NFL right tackle. Especially if he got into a zone scheme where he can utilize that quickness moreso than a power blocking scheme

Take of the orange-tinted shades, brother. 

He's been getting his ass handed to him pretty regularly since entering the NFL. He cashed in on a stellar college season, which is great, but he is not good enough to be a tackle in the NFL. 

[Junior Miller 1502]

5 minutes ago, Blanton said:

Take of the orange-tinted shades, brother. 

He's been getting his ass handed to him pretty regularly since entering the NFL. He cashed in on a stellar college season, which is great, but he is not good enough to be a tackle in the NFL. 

Once again he's playing a position he isn't physically able to play and in a blocking scheme that isn't the best fit for his abilities. 

Put Amare Cooper at fullback and see how great he looks.  Put Frederick at left tackle and he'd be a disaster. Put Tyron at center and he'd be horrible. Playing the position you fit matters. He was worth a look as a RT but incredibly stupid to draft as a guard. 

[Blanton 170]

4 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

Once again he's playing a position he isn't physically able to play and in a blocking scheme that isn't the best fit for his abilities. 

Put Amare Cooper at fullback and see how great he looks.  Put Frederick at left tackle and he'd be a disaster. Put Tyron at center and he'd be horrible. Playing the position you fit matters. He was worth a look as a RT but incredibly stupid to draft as a guard. 

Fair enough. 

I'm gonna go

Edited November 13, 2019 by Blanton

[dcar00 14243]

19 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Watching the replay it's clear as day that Connor was supposed to engage on the double team way more than he did. As @gsoda3 said time has to pass before Connor moves on to block the LB to avoid a potential penalty on a pass.  

correct on the RPO also the responsibility for Connor is to control the DL in the double first enough for Frederick to take control before attempting to get to the 2nd level.  I'm not sure where the DL lined up.  was he head up on Frederick or shaded to Connor?

[futureman 22473]

https://sports.yahoo.com/ellie-goulding-threatens-cancel-cowboys-215210584.html

dumb cunt. 

[Patrick Bateman 3916]

7 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

@Drew

I don’t know what “football guys” you’re listening to lol but if they’re an employee or the Dallas cowboys you have to understand that politics are in play right now. 2nd rd pick vs guy we picked up off the street. I’m not necessarily saying that you’re wrong, but I’ve never seen XSF make the glaring mistakes that Connor has. He’s clearly stronger, and I want my guard to be able to get a push. And I don’t care what the practice reports say. Do it in a games. I know what I’ve seen from Connor in games, and it’s below average (outside of the rams game last year, which looks like an anomaly at this point)

XSF rated out worse than Connor last year by PFF and Connor's gotten better since.  There's no doubt CW is the weakest link on the OL (although Frederick is probably 2nd now which is a shame), but it's revisionist history to think XSF is some sort of under appreciated stalwart.  He should be an okay next man up, but....

 

[Vic Mackey 47080]

[Catdaddyhorn 3446]

 

More of a publicity stunt than anything else. 

[Mileslong 4728]

No doubt part of the out of court settlement. If he was good he would already be signed, no one wants this clown

[Vic Mackey 47080]

[Patrick Bateman 3916]

Some plays from the all 22 from Sunday.  There's a lot going on in this play.  From Jaylon having no clue what's going on in this play and then taking a terrible angle, to Dlaw showing unbelievable hustle.  The is the all 21. 

Our LB play is abysmal this year.  Lee has easily been our best guy.

To wit... both guys miss the tackle here.  LVE first.