Dallas Cowboys 2019 Season Thread -- Aaaah Zeke Out?

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

5 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Richard.  I think this is the end of the road for Marinelli as well as Garrett.  There's no upside to giving the team over to Marinelli unless they think the locker room would respond more to him because he's been there longer.  The thing about bringing in a new staff is we're probably losing Richard and although he's frustrating at times, Moore has showed promise as a coordinator, he just needs a little more experience and to get out from Garrett's thumb.  We'll get over it, but our positional coaching talent has eroded under Garrett especially the last 3 years.  Sucks to lose decent guys.

I actually like John Kitna as Dak's QB coach and think he's had a lot of influence on Dak becoming more aggressive.  I'd like for whoever replaces Garrett to give Kitna a solid look at staying on as QB coach. Prior to Kitna being hired he was interviewed on BaD radio a few times while he was coaching high school ball in Tacoma and later on in Waxahachie. He discussed how much influence Mike Martz had on him in going from a game manager, risk averse QB to an aggressive, force the issue QB. I also vaguely remember someone posting a video of Kitna giving a talk at a coaching symposium discussing the same Mike Martz anecdotes he shared with BaD radio.  

[Iceman 2978]

16 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

This is a post on a Cowboys board about an exchange between a member and an associate of his from Boston. Amusing and sad at the same time.

"With a business associate who is a huge Pats fan - but, a reasonable one and a genuine student of the game. When Dallas had the ball with 2:38 left, a full compliment of time outs and needing to score a TD to win - I made the remark that, "If Dak wants the money, all he's gotta do is go win it."

My friend said, and I quote; "There's no way the league will allow that to happen. The refs will see to it that Tom gets this win. It's been going on for years up here and we all know it. It's to the point where it's almost embarrassing." Three plays later the phantom tripping call -

His next remark was .. "See, I told ya. Dallas couldn't have come in here with a Hall of Fame team and won. It's really not any fun watching them play here in Foxboro .. the outcome is a foregone conclusion."

I officiated many seasons at the NCAA level and left because pressure was applied to, "ensure we had a good, entertaining game." I'll just leave it at that. I've always felt like the pros were above that because it's all about the money with no pretense but, it seems now there are other things at play ... personal agendas, manipulating outcomes for whatever reason.

After 53 years .. I'm just about done.

Now, I don't care what you think about this post as to its validity or my friends sincerity or whatever - all I'm doing is relaying an actual conversation."

That might be significant...if we hadn't witnessed the puddle at Jason Garrett's feet 150 other times in his career.  Knowing the officiating is fucked up is EXACTLY why you don't kick the FG at 6:00 in the 4th, down 7.  But what the fuck do we fans know?  Simple math?

All that other mumbo jumbo is just excuses.  I'm fucking sick of it.  Cowboys have just as shitty a division as the Patriots, and they continually trip over their own dick when they play anyone worth a fuck.  namely, they snatched defeat in the face of victory against Minnesota, , New Orleans, and New England.  IT's fucking old and it is NOT because of the gotdam zebras.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Iceman

['stache 22133]

Everyone keeps complaining about not going for it on 4th and 7. I’m more pissed that the shitty play calling kept getting to 4th down. There is zero chance they would have converted.

Edited November 27, 2019 by 'stache

[Iceman 2978]

The transgressions are too numerous to list. The likelihood that they converted the 4th down is way the fuck higher than kicking a FG and still needing the same score to win.  It was a concession of opportunity.

The passive, reluctant, playing not to lose horseshit is why they end up where they do.

It's Jason Garrett's fucking signature.

[Hate 20248]

I have no problem with them taking the points.  The field position for the Patriots would have been about the same if they hadn't gotten the 4th down as it was after the kickoff.  The Cowboys had 3 timeouts and the two minute warning.  It worked out exactly as it should have and if it hadn't been for the worst call of the NFL year to date, the Cowboys would have continued that drive for at least another 4 plays.  They also would have had a chance to win it instead of just tying the game. 

['stache 22133]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

I have no problem with them taking the points.  The field position for the Patriots would have been about the same if they hadn't gotten the 4th down as it was after the kickoff.  The Cowboys had 3 timeouts and the two minute warning.  It worked out exactly as it should have and if it hadn't been for the worst call of the NFL year to date, the Cowboys would have continued that drive for at least another 4 plays.  They also would have had a chance to win it instead of just tying the game. 

I agree, taking the points wasn't even close to the worst thing from Garrett, and you're right, it worked out in that they made the stop and started driving. A call here and there is not Garrett's weakness, it's his entire offensive philosophy that is sometimes completely chickenshit, and sometimes completely counter-intuitive (not throwing more against Minnesota, and not running more against NE, and all running plays being the same shit over and over without any imagination). And even without the tripping call, there was no chance whatsoever they were getting into the endzone once the field shortened and NE defense tightened up. It happened every single drive. Garrett would have gone full conservative past the NE 30 and the game would end on a failed 4th down play since he'd have no choice but to go for it had they gotten that far.

[Mo Horn 8938]

interesting. I'd rather have Lincoln, although that probably means the Meyer goes to blow u.

[Iceman 2978]

Ahhh, the Cowboys return to their early Jerry Days roots... exactly how much of the criminal element would Urban require to win?

[Vic Mackey 47955]

 

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

Never been on #teamGarrett and don't know anyone who has, but it's odd to me that this game could be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back when, in truth, the outcome was decided by poor officiating rather than poor coaching.

But, hey, if it gets The Clapper replaced by someone with more acumen and imagination, then by all means, let's continue piling on.

[futureman 22699]

22 hours ago, dcar00 said:

he sucks as a coach, but I've seen nothing to say he doesn't treat all players equally. you think Belichick "relates".  guess Dez needs clicks.

belichick doesn’t need to “relate” to black athletes, he just needs to know how to talk to them, and he does.  it seems like jason garrett might not be able to.  though dez is somewhat of a special case and as far as I know dez is the only player to say this about garrett publicly. 

[Pato del Muerto 53500]

24 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Never been on #teamGarrett and don't know anyone who has, but it's odd to me that this game could be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back when, in truth, the outcome was decided by poor officiating rather than poor coaching.

But, hey, if it gets The Clapper replaced by someone with more acumen and imagination, then by all means, let's continue piling on.

Because the poor coaching left us vulnerable to poor officiating. 
not just the last fg either. The punt block, the offense throughout the game, the other 4th down calls, the first fg try into the wind. The punt formation penalty that caused a rekick that lost 20 yards net. It all goes back to chickenshit decisions, poor decisions, and inferior coaching of the players to know what to do. 

['stache 22133]

1 hour ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Never been on #teamGarrett and don't know anyone who has, but it's odd to me that this game could be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back when, in truth, the outcome was decided by poor officiating rather than poor coaching.

But, hey, if it gets The Clapper replaced by someone with more acumen and imagination, then by all means, let's continue piling on.

I don't understand why this game was the proverbial straw because his ineptitude has been obvious for years, but I'm glad its happening now. The game also was against the best franchise of the last 20 years on the road in bad weather and was close (in addition to the officiating blunder). How was this not a big deal after the Jets game or the Minnesota game? In the Minnesota game they obviously sold out to stop Zeke, which worked, but Garrett and Co. flat out refused to throw more or adjust by varying the run plays. It was the same up the middle play into a brick wall over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. That game was a lot more frustrating for me than the Pats game.

Edited November 27, 2019 by 'stache

[Vic Mackey 47955]

1 hour ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Never been on #teamGarrett and don't know anyone who has, but it's odd to me that this game could be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back when, in truth, the outcome was decided by poor officiating rather than poor coaching.

But, hey, if it gets The Clapper replaced by someone with more acumen and imagination, then by all means, let's continue piling on.

It was much more coaching than officiating. There is always a boiling point and a breaking point. This could have been it for Jerry. As always, they went away from what was working like the Vikings game. Zeke was getting going and they go away from it. Passing game was working in the Vikings and they go away from it. Never fails with this staff.

[C-Man 27779]

2 hours ago, Mo Horn said:

interesting. I'd rather have Lincoln, although that probably means the Meyer goes to blow u.

Urban Meyer has never coached a single day in the NFL. Personally, I think Riley could have a higher likelihood of NFL success simply because I feel he's an innovative offensive mind.

[Iceman 2978]

Does Richard stay or go with Garrett?

If it were to beRiley. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Iceman

['stache 22133]

32 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Urban Meyer has never coached a single day in the NFL. Personally, I think Riley could have a higher likelihood of NFL success simply because I feel he's an innovative offensive mind.

He's a fucking winner with an ego. Basically the opposite of the dickless ginger. He could toe the line between running things his way and kissing Jerry's ass where necessary. I'd be fully on board with a Meyer hire. 

[C-Man 27779]

27 minutes ago, 'stache said:

He's a fucking winner with an ego. Basically the opposite of the dickless ginger. He could toe the line between running things his way and kissing Jerry's ass where necessary. I'd be fully on board with a Meyer hire. 

I'm not sure he'd be worse. But not sure his strengths translate to the NFL. It's not very often a college coach makes jump to NFL and is successful. Carroll did it but he's spent way more years in the NFL than college. Saban was a .500 coach in two seasons with Miami. Spurrier was a train wreck in Washington. Chip Kelly was a mild success in Philly and then went 2-14 with the Niners. Jury is still out on Kliff in the desert.

[Pato del Muerto 53500]

5 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I'm not sure he'd be worse. But not sure his strengths translate to the NFL. It's not very often a college coach makes jump to NFL and is successful. Carroll did it but he's spent way more years in the NFL than college. Saban was a .500 coach in two seasons with Miami. Spurrier was a train wreck in Washington. Chip Kelly was a mild success in Philly and then went 2-14 with the Niners. Jury is still out on Kliff in the desert.

Jimmy Johnson 

[C-Man 27779]

1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Jimmy Johnson 

Thirty years ago

[Pato del Muerto 53500]

I agree that your math is correct

[Tired Horn 836]

IN my dreams the Cowboys are able to hire away Lincoln Riley and Oklahoma decides to replace him with Jason Garrett.

[Junior Miller 1502]

The Sirois had a good point. Why not Greg Roman? 

He gets OL to play like beasts and would be great with a QB like Dak. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

10 hours ago, Iceman said:

That might be significant...if we hadn't witnessed the puddle at Jason Garrett's feet 150 other times in his career.  Knowing the officiating is fucked up is EXACTLY why you don't kick the FG at 6:00 in the 4th, down 7.  But what the fuck do we fans know?  Simple math?

All that other mumbo jumbo is just excuses.  I'm fucking sick of it.  Cowboys have just as shitty a division as the Patriots, and they continually trip over their own dick when they play anyone worth a fuck.  namely, they snatched defeat in the face of victory against Minnesota, , New Orleans, and New England.  IT's fucking old and it is NOT because of the gotdam zebras.

While this may be true this year, historically it isn't.  3 Super Bowls have come out of this division in the last 12 years. The AFC East can barely string together that many non-Patriot playoff appearances in the last 12 years. 

[michaelpshayes 417]

21 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

The Sirois had a good point. Why not Greg Roman? 

He gets OL to play like beasts and would be great with a QB like Dak. 

Jerry would cut off his dick within 5 minutes and tell him you're keeping Marinelli and Richard and whatever other lackey Jerry wants ...you either get a big name with some power or Jerry will kneecap them out of the box 

[irishtexan 11712]

IN my dreams the Cowboys are able to hire away Lincoln Riley and Oklahoma decides to replace him with Jason Garrett.

If the boys hire Riley I’d bet dollars to donuts they hire urban Meyer. Which would fuck UT for a decade.

[futureman 22699]

1 hour ago, irishtexan said:

If the boys hire Riley I’d bet dollars to donuts they hire urban Meyer. Which would fuck UT for a decade.

urban meyer isn’t going to norman oklahoma you fuckwit. 

[Junior Miller 1502]

He went to a worse place in bumbfuck Columbus OH. 2019 OKC is Manhattan compared to that shithole. 

[Irish Wrist Watch 1503]

Roman sounds like the ticket. Marinelli is doing a good job with the D. No reason why Roman wouldn't consider at least talking to him to find out if he can make any changes to the D that Roman wants. I don't think Marinelli has designs on the HC job. If he is the brains behind that offense, then getting him out of Baltimore might be the best way to keep them from having a dynasty. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Irish Wrist Watch

[dcar00 14963]

6 hours ago, futureman said:

belichick doesn’t need to “relate” to black athletes, he just needs to know how to talk to them, and he does.  it seems like jason garrett might not be able to.  though dez is somewhat of a special case and as far as I know dez is the only player to say this about garrett publicly. 

I can agree that Dez is a special case, alright.

[Underdog 29187]

38 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

He went to a worse place in bumbfuck Columbus OH. 2019 OKC is Manhattan compared to that shithole. 

Manhattan, Kansas? 

[futureman 22699]

44 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

He went to a worse place in bumbfuck Columbus OH. 2019 OKC is Manhattan compared to that shithole. 

god, you’re dumb. 

[Junior Miller 1502]

Concerning the first down marker controversy 

 

Is it another Patriots scandal? Not exactly.

There was a mistake, but it seems to have come on the spot of the ball. Here’s the official play-by-play:

2-8-DAL 49 (4:33) D.Prescott pass deep middle to M.Gallup to NE 29 for 22 yards (D.Harmon) [D.Wise]. P9

PENALTY on NE-D.Wise, Roughing the Passer, 15 yards, enforced at NE 29. X10

1-10-NE 14 (4:03) E.Elliott right guard to NE 11 for 3 yards (D.Hightower, J.Collins).

Except the ball wasn’t spotted at the 14-yard line for first down. It was at the 15, for whatever reason. And presumably, the chain gang was off by a yard too, and fixed it after Dallas’ first-down play.

No, officials weren’t just randomly moving the first-down marker in the middle of a series of downs to help the Patriots

Edited November 28, 2019 by Junior Miller

[Surly Bevo 25741]

So they gave them a shitty spot at the 15 and then made the chain adjustment to make them need to go for 11 yards????  I don't think that's conspiracy that just sounds incompetent.

[Junior Miller 1502]

No they're saying just misplaced the chains on first down. The play to Gallup went to the 29 and then then 15 yd penalty moved it to the 14 but the chain crew fucked up and put it at the 15 - 5. During first down they realized it so after the play they moved it to the 14 - 4. What I want to know was on first down was the ball spotted correctly on the 14 or did they spot it on the 15

[Surly Bevo 25741]

If you watch that video while it is a still photo the Cowboys are pretty clearly lined up ready to run a play from the 15, so unless the officials then came in before they ran the play and moved the ball up a yard they ultimately gave them 11 yards to gain for a first down.

[Vic Mackey 47955]

5 hours ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

Roman sounds like the ticket. Marinelli is doing a good job with the D. No reason why Roman wouldn't consider at least talking to him to find out if he can make any changes to the D that Roman wants. I don't think Marinelli has designs on the HC job. If he is the brains behind that offense, then getting him out of Baltimore might be the best way to keep them from having a dynasty. 

Marinelli is doing a good job? This defense is not good. His specialty is DL and they get blown off the ball constantly, especially right up the middle. Secondary is horrendous and has no idea how to track the ball in the air or make any sort of play.

3 drives sum up the defense this year and they are the following:

Saints game - We finally take a lead after offense played poor all game. And what did the defense do right after? They let a 9 minute drive and the Saints got the lead back.

Vikings game - Offense makes a huge fury and we take a lead. What does the defense do right after? Let the Vikings shove the ball down their throats and take the lead back.

Patriots game - We just cut the lead to 13-9 late in the game. About 5-7 minutes left and all timeouts left. What did the defense do? Let the Patriots run clock and flip the field and pin us 95 yards away. There was a 3rd and 11 that if the offense just fucking made a play, we make them punt and we get good field position. 

But this defense rarely ever makes a fucking play when we need to. Our starting field position is last in the league. This offense is asked to drive down the length of the field constantly. But people pat this defense on the back if they force a punt except forcing a punt is not equal on every drive. If you let the other team drive 40--50 yards before punting vs getting a quick stop and punting, huge differences in field position we are gaining and losing.

When will this defense ever make a huge play in crunch time? Get a turnover or something. Quick 3 and out when needed. Anything.

[Irish Wrist Watch 1503]

11 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Marinelli is doing a good job? This defense is not good. His specialty is DL and they get blown off the ball constantly, especially right up the middle. Secondary is horrendous and has no idea how to track the ball in the air or make any sort of play.

3 drives sum up the defense this year and they are the following:

Saints game - We finally take a lead after offense played poor all game. And what did the defense do right after? They let a 9 minute drive and the Saints got the lead back.

Vikings game - Offense makes a huge fury and we take a lead. What does the defense do right after? Let the Vikings shove the ball down their throats and take the lead back.

Patriots game - We just cut the lead to 13-9 late in the game. About 5-7 minutes left and all timeouts left. What did the defense do? Let the Patriots run clock and flip the field and pin us 95 yards away. There was a 3rd and 11 that if the offense just fucking made a play, we make them punt and we get good field position. 

But this defense rarely ever makes a fucking play when we need to. Our starting field position is last in the league. This offense is asked to drive down the length of the field constantly. But people pat this defense on the back if they force a punt except forcing a punt is not equal on every drive. If you let the other team drive 40--50 yards before punting vs getting a quick stop and punting, huge differences in field position we are gaining and losing.

When will this defense ever make a huge play in crunch time? Get a turnover or something. Quick 3 and out when needed. Anything.

 

We'll know more today. This D held the Saints with Brees, I believe, to 12 pts. They held the Patriots to 13. (Bad weather doesn't necessarily translate into low scoring - receivers have an advantage). Seems in that game, there were some squirrely things on the Patriots' last drive (Officials). D's get tired when their fucking offensive unit is three and out or six and out all game. The problems with this team are offense and ST related. And Slappy, of course.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Irish Wrist Watch

[Vic Mackey 47955]

Meanwhile our coach stands around and claps and wears a headset for no damn reason. He never talks to any coach or give any input. Clap clap clap clap. All the good coaches are in involved and want the details.

 

 

[Irish Wrist Watch 1503]

13 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

No they're saying just misplaced the chains on first down. The play to Gallup went to the 29 and then then 15 yd penalty moved it to the 14 but the chain crew fucked up and put it at the 15 - 5. During first down they realized it so after the play they moved it to the 14 - 4. What I want to know was on first down was the ball spotted correctly on the 14 or did they spot it on the 15

I could be wrong, but I don't think the markers on that side of the field were the official ones. They wouldn't be moving them as the team lines up. They were just markers to give the offense an idea of where they needed to be to get a first. As I mentioned earlier, the extra yard could have kept Dak from deciding to run for the first. 

Just curious, but was the resulting pass to the back of the end zone. Seems I recall the defender giving our tight end a push before the ball got there to make sure that he couldn't come down in bounds. Nobody's talked about it, but I'm pretty sure that's pass interference if the ball is on the way.

[Irish Wrist Watch 1503]

5 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Meanwhile our coach stands around and claps and wears a headset for no damn reason. He never talks to any coach or give any input. Clap clap clap clap. All the good coaches are in involved and want the details.

 

You're damn right on Garrett. Does he ever look at anything, like a cheat sheet? He isn't involved in any details. He's there to call time outs, and that's about all.

FWIW, he's never struck me as the kind of coach who, during the season, puts in twelve hour days, seven days a week. He looks more like the guy who can't wait to get out the door at 5pm. In some jobs, that works fine, but not in the NFL. Not at the money these people make against the hungriest competition in the world. In the world of coaching, Garrett is a slacker. On the sidelines - he's a fucking slacker. I get the feeling that once the game starts, nobody wants anything to do with him. You look at Bellichick. He's all over the place, screaming this or that. Never looks happy. Looks like he just lost his best friend. Looks like he just found out his wife is having sex with his next door neighbor.

[Pam Cummings 9868]

15 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

So they gave them a shitty spot at the 15 and then made the chain adjustment to make them need to go for 11 yards????  I don't think that's conspiracy that just sounds incompetent.

They gave us awful spots the entire game. It was a joke.

['stache 22133]

I mentioned a few pages back how he never seems to be talking in the headset, always looks miserable, not in a “we need to do better” kind of way, but a “is it over yet?” kind of way. I seriously don’t get the dynamic of him as head coach. Why is he even there?

Edited November 28, 2019 by 'stache

[Irish Wrist Watch 1503]

BTW, The Cowboys have the sixth best defense in the league. https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/view/defense

Same site. We're the best in offense, the Worst in ST, near the bottom in turnovers (in a bad way). Why do we keep losing to good teams? 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Irish Wrist Watch

[futureman 22699]

1 hour ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

Why do we keep losing to good teams? 

quarterback play. 

[markstanco 12787]

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Special teams being the worst in the NFL, not forcing turnovers against most teams, coaching

[anacardo 217]

My gut estimate is that we give away about 4-5 points a game consistently with awful coaching decisions, particularly in high-leverage / clutch situations, and terrible clock, tempo and TO management.  

[DougO 5265]

Season is officially over and Garrett is toast. Time to tank for the better draft pick...as if it's even necessary to tank.

[perfectchaos007 6780]

What's sad is I still think the Cowboys will be in the division race until week 17 where it will be a playoffs due or die @ Philly. Bet the farm on Philly to win and cover the spread by a wide margin