Dallas Cowboys 2019 Season Thread -- Aaaah Zeke Out?

[dcar00 14960]

1 hour ago, Dr Fear said:

 

Of course its the big day.  Its Tuesday...

 

[Trey3216 15452]

2 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

7 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

I wouldn't doubt a bit if the Cowboys dangled Collins straight up to Houston for Clowney.  However, the injury to McGovern(sp?) perhaps changed the trajectory on what they were wanting to do.  

Houston doesnt have clowney....

They did about a week ago before having to put McGovern on IR due to a setback  

Edited September 3, 2019 by Trey3216

[Post Oak 20564]

15 minutes ago, Viper said:

http://twitter.com/undisputed/status/1168884662758006784

 

 

7-year deal and mega deal sound good for Zeke but it really doesn't mean much.  I wouldn't be surprised if it's a 5-year ext on top of his last two years.  

Then look for guarantees.

Of course most everyone here knows that.

[Bone3421 716]

They did about a week ago before having to put McGovern on IR due to a setback  

Oh, my bad i didnt know the post from 10min
Ago wasnt actually talking about trading players that teams dont own...

I would say the cowboys could dangle deshaun watson for devante adams. Then we can win SB and it also helps cover for coopers heel injury

[Vic Mackey 47953]

2 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

7-year deal and mega deal sound good for Zeke but it really doesn't mean much.  I wouldn't be surprised if it's a 5-year ext on top of his last two years.  

Then look for guarantees.

Of course most everyone here knows that.

Exactly. Contract length and total dollars mean nothing in the NFL. It's all about the guaranteed. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 minute ago, Vic Mackey said:

Exactly. Contract length and total dollars mean nothing in the NFL. It's all about the guaranteed. 

And I would imagine the cowboys want some kind of language in the contract that says “if Zeke gets suspended, then x happens”. I’m sure him and his agent are smart enough to understand that Zeke is absolutely dumb enough/under a microscope enough that they can’t agree to something like that being in the contract. 

[Trey3216 15452]

8 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

Oh, my bad i didnt know the post from 10min
Ago wasnt actually talking about trading players that teams dont own...

I would say the cowboys could dangle deshaun watson for devante adams. Then we can win SB and it also helps cover for coopers heel injury

I don't think you're getting what I was saying.  

Before the Texans traded Clowney, and before the McGovern had a setback that resulted in him getting put on IR, I wouldn't doubt if the Cowboys dangled Collins for Clowney.  It was talked about several times on multiple media platforms that it wouldn't be a bad idea to try given the Texans (at that time) dearth of talent on the OLine.

 

Or, apparently, you have no imagination or comprehension skills.  

Edited September 3, 2019 by Trey3216

[Trey3216 15452]

8 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Exactly. Contract length and total dollars mean nothing in the NFL. It's all about the guaranteed. 

The only reason the contract length means anything is how you spread out the guaranteed money.  

[Bone3421 716]

I don't think you're getting what I was saying.  
Before the Texans traded Clowney, and before the McGovern had a setback that resulted in him getting put on IR, I wouldn't doubt if the Cowboys dangled Collins for Clowney.  It was talked about several times on multiple media platforms that it wouldn't be a bad idea to try given the Texans (at that time) dearth of talent on the OLine.
 
Or, apparently, you have no imagination or comprehension skills.  

I figured that while i was typing....but i was already committed

And its more fun the other way

[Bone3421 716]

The only reason the contract length means anything is how you spread out the guaranteed money.  

Yup...if its 7 years im guessing the first 2 years we are buying out of rookie deal will be cap friendly then the hits come down the road

[Machinator 32103]

 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

90 million? Dafuq

[Vic Mackey 47953]

Good. Now those people who said we would be fine with Pollard/Morris for the season can stfu 

[Vic Mackey 47953]

[Machinator 32103]

 

[C-Man 27779]

14 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

90 million? Dafuq

This. Any deal better be littered with terms where if gets out and acts a fool, the Cowboys can wash their hands of Zeke.

[Machinator 32103]

 

[Dr Fear 1290]

16 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

90 million? Dafuq

Devil in the details.

[Pato del Muerto 53485]

15 million a year for 6 years. I hope it’s back loaded on salary so that the team can cut him after 4 and not have too much dead money. 

[C-Man 27779]

ESPN uses their cute FPI to simulate the NFL season. Cowboys finish in a three-way tie for second at 7-9. Eagles win division.

Cowboys W's: Giants (Week 1), Dolphins (3), Eagles (7), Giants (9), Lions (11), Bills (13), Redskins (17)

Cowboys L's: Redskins (Week 2), Saints (4), Packers (5), Jets (6), Vikings (10), Patriots (12), Bears (14), Rams (15), Eagles (16)

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess Garrett doesn't survive a 7-9 finish in 2019.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26942340/we-simulated-entire-2019-nfl-season-scores-storylines-all-267-games

[ChemicalHorn 364]

3 minutes ago, C-Man said:

ESPN uses their cute FPI to simulate the NFL season. Cowboys finish in a three-way tie for second at 7-9. Eagles win division.

 

 

Losses to Redskins and Jets? Okay then...

[Pam Cummings 9868]

From falling out of the draft because his ex got murdered to signing a $50m deal. Good for La'el.

[Trey3216 15452]

I just laid $100 each to win the conference and the SB.  LFG!! 

[Junior Miller 1502]

26 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

90 million? Dafuq

Lulz. So 11 starters on offense and 7 of them including QB and a near 20 a year WR will be on big money paid deals. With the hard cap you can really only afford 8-9 per team. 

All for an offense that in 3 years of the Dak Zeke offense have gone from 5th in scoring in '16 to 14th in '17 to 22nd last season. They just saw their defense carry a below average offense to the 2nd round of the playoffs and said let's lock up this below average offense and let most of the defense outside Tank, Jaylon, and LVE walk within 2 off-seasons. 

Looking forward to seeing them lose 31-17 a ton going forward. You almost have to be Brewster's Millions level trying to blow it to be this stupid. 

[C-Man 27779]

8 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

Lulz. So 11 starters on offense and 7 of them including QB and a near 20 a year WR will be on big money paid deals. With the hard cap you can really only afford 8-9 per team. 

All for an offense that in 3 years of the Dak Zeke offense have gone from 5th in scoring in '16 to 14th in '17 to 22nd last season. They just saw their defense carry a below average offense to the 2nd round of the playoffs and said let's lock up this below average offense and let most of the defense outside Tank, Jaylon, and LVE walk within 2 off-seasons. 

Looking forward to seeing them lose 31-17 a ton going forward. You almost have to be Brewster's Millions level trying to blow it to be this stupid. 

Perhaps. But the Cowboys are in good long-term shape along the offensive and defensive lines. That's not a bad spot to be in. (Personally, I think I'd stop right where they are once they get Zeke signed. I don't see how Dak is a $30M+/year contributor -- not with this cap/team situation anyway. It's maybe also foolish throwing $20M/year at Amari.

[Machinator 32103]

 

[Junior Miller 1502]

4 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Perhaps. But the Cowboys are in good long-term shape along the offensive and defensive lines. That's not a bad spot to be in. (Personally, I think I'd stop right where they are once they get Zeke signed. I don't see how Dak is a $30M+/year contributor -- not with this cap/team situation anyway. It's maybe also foolish throwing $20M/year at Amari.

Problem is they can't stop here. Dak may not be a $30+ QB but you have to pay him because QBs are the hardest position in the game to replace. Chances of finding another QB at even 70% of his level aren't great if Dak walks. 

The easiest position to replace in the game? RB. By far. The guy they're supposedly about to throw away 15 a year on for at least approx 4 years before they can reasonably get out of it with minimal cap hit. 

Also, they do not look nearly good at DL after this season. Quinn walks, Malik Collins walks, most likey have to cut Crawford for cap, A. Woods walks if he plays himself into a decent contract, and who knows what Gregory and Taco can bring. Not to mention Byron Jones and Anthony Brown are up followed by Chidobe, Woods, and Lewis the following off-season, and in a league that now puts a big premium on DBs, especially corner and FS. There's a reason Belichick always puts money into his secondary.

They're handing out contracts like they don't believe one of the best defenses in the league last season, and a defense that carried the team to the playoffs, is worth keeping around in lieu of one of the bottom 1/3 offenses in the game. It's nuts and further exemplifies why they haven't sniffed a conference championship game in going on 24 years

[Quagmire 2148]

The fuck hairstyle is that ?

[Dr Fear 1290]

The fuck hairstyle is that ?

Recent open brain surgery look.

[Vito Andolini 9450]

Michael Irvin would cut you if you gave him that look

[kevwun 16438]

That part down the middle would make Alfalfa jealous.

[Vic Mackey 47953]

2 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

Lulz. So 11 starters on offense and 7 of them including QB and a near 20 a year WR will be on big money paid deals. With the hard cap you can really only afford 8-9 per team. 

All for an offense that in 3 years of the Dak Zeke offense have gone from 5th in scoring in '16 to 14th in '17 to 22nd last season. They just saw their defense carry a below average offense to the 2nd round of the playoffs and said let's lock up this below average offense and let most of the defense outside Tank, Jaylon, and LVE walk within 2 off-seasons. 

Looking forward to seeing them lose 31-17 a ton going forward. You almost have to be Brewster's Millions level trying to blow it to be this stupid. 

Jesus christ you are the dumbest fucking person on this message board. Fucking dumb ass.

They have every single important player locked up long term. Have one of the highest cap space in all of the league. You just named every single important player on defense ans they will be locked up. Newsflash, those are the top 3 paid players. The rest of the defense is on low paying contracts or rookie deals. Do you even understand how fluid rosters are dumb fuck? In 5 years, you will be transitioning at the middle and bottom portions of your rosters while the core of this team will still be here. 

I love how this pisses you off because you say dumber and dumber shit as the days goes on.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

*Check number of conference championship games we've gone to in the last 20 years*

Yeah we should give our front office the benefit of the doubt here.

[Junior Miller 1502]

This dipshit has no idea how a hard salary cap league works. Every other team in the league has to start losing players to free agency or trade once they start paying a high priced quarterback, but the Cowboys are miraculously going to be able to sign 7 players including the quarterback and a replaceable RB to top-five position money and still sign all of the necessary defensive pieces to higher end position money. Which they surely will be asking for because every player expects top of position money from the Cowboys. 

Even La'el Collins, who is maybe a top 12 or so right tackle in the league, just got a contract that will be only 1 million shy in guaranteed money from the highest-paid right tackle in the league.

Just for shits and giggles Vic go ahead and break down the exact cap number for each of these signings plus the players on contract. Then factor in a 6 for 90 55 guaranteed for Zeke, a 5 for 100 60 guaranteed for Cooper, and the exact same contract Wentz got for Dak (which is low balling what it will really be). Then explain exactly how, under the current salary cap, they will be able to re-sign all of those defensive players I mentioned that are coming free in the next two seasons. Trust me Vic, you don't know jack fucking shit. 

The only way the Collins deal make sense is if they're planning on cutting Tyron after this season and moving Collins to left tackle. Which seems kind of crazy because Collins is only a decent right tackle and Tyron is still extremely elite the 13 or so games he plays every year. I've been trying to work these scenarios and figure out a single way any of these moves make sense and I can't find one at all. I don't see any possible way outside of historically elite drafting over the next 4 to 5 drafts that this team doesn't regress horribly on defense and as a team starting next season.

 

[Drew 2923]

5 hours ago, Post Oak said:

7-year deal and mega deal sound good for Zeke but it really doesn't mean much.  I wouldn't be surprised if it's a 5-year ext on top of his last two years.  

Then look for guarantees.

Of course most everyone here knows that.

 

5 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Exactly. Contract length and total dollars mean nothing in the NFL. It's all about the guaranteed. 

Both of these.  All that'll happen is First Take and Undisputed and all the other shock jocks will talk about 7 Years 90 million and how good/bad it is, when it's probably really a 5 year deal, max, with very little dead money, if any, after that.  It'll probably not hurt the cap at all either.

1 hour ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

*Check number of conference championship games we've gone to in the last 20 years*

Yeah we should give our front office the benefit of the doubt here.

Fair point.  But we can't justify the last 23 years as the same thing as the last 4-5.  If you can't see a complete change in this front office and the way the team has been built the last several years, no one can help you.

6 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

This dipshit has no idea how a hard salary cap league works. Every other team in the league has to start losing players to free agency or trade once they start paying a high priced quarterback, but the Cowboys are miraculously going to be able to sign 7 players including the quarterback and a replaceable RB to top-five position money and still sign all of the necessary defensive pieces to higher end position money. Which they surely will be asking for because every player expects top of position money from the Cowboys. 

Even La'el Collins, who is maybe a top 12 or so right tackle in the league, just got a contract that will be only 1 million shy in guaranteed money from the highest-paid right tackle in the league.

Just for shits and giggles Vic go ahead and break down the exact cap number for each of these signings plus the players on contract. Then factor in a 6 for 90 55 guaranteed for Zeke, a 5 for 100 60 guaranteed for Cooper, and the exact same contract Wentz got for Dak (which is low balling what it will really be). Then explain exactly how, under the current salary cap, they will be able to re-sign all of those defensive players I mentioned that are coming free in the next two seasons. Trust me Vic, you don't know jack fucking shit. 

The only way the Collins deal make sense is if they're planning on cutting Tyron after this season and moving Collins to left tackle. Which seems kind of crazy because Collins is only a decent right tackle and Tyron is still extremely elite the 13 or so games he plays every year. I've been trying to work these scenarios and figure out a single way any of these moves make sense and I can't find one at all. I don't see any possible way outside of historically elite drafting over the next 4 to 5 drafts that this team doesn't regress horribly on defense and as a team starting next season.

 

 

And I'll wage you don't have much of understanding of the Cap as you think.  The cap is a fungible thing that can be adjusted and pushed around.  The Cowboys are doing what they can to keep it that way.  They've ALWAYS been able to sign who they want if they need too, and have NOT been hurt by a single contract lately.  Even when Romo AND Dez were dead money last year they still were able to have a good team with decent depth.  They have a shit ton of cap space next season, and the cap is only going up.

You asking Vic to add up all the cap numbers and tack on Zekes deal...but you still don't comprehend how those numbers actually affect the cap each year.  You think a "15 mil a year" deal for Zeke actually means it's "15 mil a year" and that's not the case at all.  With the signing bonus spread out and the guaranteed money only lasting a certain amount of years, none of these contracts they've signed will stop them from keeping anyone they want, and actually it helps them in the long run by keeping some of these guys to very reasonable deals.

You're worse than Stephen A and Wilbon at this point.

[Junior Miller 1502]

1 hour ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

*Check number of conference championship games we've gone to in the last 20 years*

Yeah we should give our front office the benefit of the doubt here.

I've become convinced they either 1) are very poor at evaluation and team building from a contracts standpoint or 2) expect Jerry to be dead within 2 years and are pushing the chips all in/mortgaging the 3-5 year future to toss a hail Mary and pray. 

[Junior Miller 1502]

2 minutes ago, Drew said:

 

Both of these.  All that'll happen is First Take and Undisputed and all the other shock jocks will talk about 7 Years 90 million and how good/bad it is, when it's probably really a 5 year deal, max, with very little dead money, if any, after that.  It'll probably not hurt the cap at all either.

Fair point.  But we can't justify the last 23 years as the same thing as the last 4-5.  If you can't see a complete change in this front office and the way the team has been built the last several years, no one can help you.

 

And I'll wage you don't have much of understanding of the Cap as you think.  The cap is a fungible thing that can be adjusted and pushed around.  The Cowboys are doing what they can to keep it that way.  They've ALWAYS been able to sign who they want if they need too, and have NOT been hurt by a single contract lately.  Even when Romo AND Dez were dead money last year they still were able to have a good team with decent depth.  They have a shit ton of cap space next season, and the cap is only going up.

You asking Vic to add up all the cap numbers and tack on Zekes deal...but you still don't comprehend how those numbers actually affect the cap each year.  You think a "15 mil a year" deal for Zeke actually means it's "15 mil a year" and that's not the case at all.  With the signing bonus spread out and the guaranteed money only lasting a certain amount of years, none of these contracts they've signed will stop them from keeping anyone they want, and actually it helps them in the long run by keeping some of these guys to very reasonable deals.

You're worse than Stephen A and Wilbon at this point.

if you're going to make that accusation then I extend the same question to you. Bring the math to the table and explain how everything I've said isn't correct given the current contracts, figures that we know, and the estimated contracts for Zeke, Dak, and Cooper. 

I've done the calculations myself given the current cap level and a factored in  3% increase, but if you're so sure you know what you're talking about refute everything I've said with actual data. I do this kind of stuff for a living but that doesn't mean I can't make a mistake on a fun little side project I'm calculating in between meetings. I don't believe I have but if you're so sure then show it. 

[Junior Miller 1502]

I'll even give you a head start. The NFL cap is set for 2019 at 188.2 million. There's been between a 5 and 10 million growth in cap annually over the last several years so for the next four to five years valuation you can factor between 3 and 6% annually in cap growth.

The Cowboys current salary cap number is easy to find as is their contracts on the books and when they expire. Use the same estimated figures I listed above for the QB/RB/WR deals and use the figures we've been told for Jaylon and La'el's new deals. 

For the defensive players I listed coming up in the next two years it's reasonable to expect Jones will request a top 5 CB contract from the Cowboys if he has another season like last year and guys like Brown/Woods/Malik Collins I'll leave you leeway to estimate what they can reasonably get given their statistical position rank. 

Have at it. 

[Drew 2923]

And Jones shouldn't get that contract.  He'll get paid even higher elsewhere and they'll let him go if that's the case.  If he wants a team friendly deal like Collins/Jaylon, then they'll sign him up.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Dak on his rookie deal was our window (including this year).

Once Dak is receiving 32+ million a year yeah, things are gonna be tough.

[Gucci_Suit 2828]

5 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

I just laid $100 each to win the conference and the SB.  LFG!! 

You’ve inspired me to do the same. Walking up to counter at MGM now. 

[futureman 22698]

5 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

From falling out of the draft because his ex got murdered to signing a $50m deal. Good for La'el.

this is his third contract.  he’s already set for life.

['stache 22133]

Cap nerd fights not going away.

[In10se 175]

3 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

This dipshit has no idea how a hard salary cap league works. Every other team in the league has to start losing players to free agency or trade once they start paying a high priced quarterback, but the Cowboys are miraculously going to be able to sign 7 players including the quarterback and a replaceable RB to top-five position money and still sign all of the necessary defensive pieces to higher end position money. Which they surely will be asking for because every player expects top of position money from the Cowboys. 

Even La'el Collins, who is maybe a top 12 or so right tackle in the league, just got a contract that will be only 1 million shy in guaranteed money from the highest-paid right tackle in the league.

Just for shits and giggles Vic go ahead and break down the exact cap number for each of these signings plus the players on contract. Then factor in a 6 for 90 55 guaranteed for Zeke, a 5 for 100 60 guaranteed for Cooper, and the exact same contract Wentz got for Dak (which is low balling what it will really be). Then explain exactly how, under the current salary cap, they will be able to re-sign all of those defensive players I mentioned that are coming free in the next two seasons. Trust me Vic, you don't know jack fucking shit. 

The only way the Collins deal make sense is if they're planning on cutting Tyron after this season and moving Collins to left tackle. Which seems kind of crazy because Collins is only a decent right tackle and Tyron is still extremely elite the 13 or so games he plays every year. I've been trying to work these scenarios and figure out a single way any of these moves make sense and I can't find one at all. I don't see any possible way outside of historically elite drafting over the next 4 to 5 drafts that this team doesn't regress horribly on defense and as a team starting next season.

 

 

3 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

if you're going to make that accusation then I extend the same question to you. Bring the math to the table and explain how everything I've said isn't correct given the current contracts, figures that we know, and the estimated contracts for Zeke, Dak, and Cooper. 

I've done the calculations myself given the current cap level and a factored in  3% increase, but if you're so sure you know what you're talking about refute everything I've said with actual data. I do this kind of stuff for a living but that doesn't mean I can't make a mistake on a fun little side project I'm calculating in between meetings. I don't believe I have but if you're so sure then show it. 

 

3 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

I'll even give you a head start. The NFL cap is set for 2019 at 188.2 million. There's been between a 5 and 10 million growth in cap annually over the last several years so for the next four to five years valuation you can factor between 3 and 6% annually in cap growth.

The Cowboys current salary cap number is easy to find as is their contracts on the books and when they expire. Use the same estimated figures I listed above for the QB/RB/WR deals and use the figures we've been told for Jaylon and La'el's new deals. 

For the defensive players I listed coming up in the next two years it's reasonable to expect Jones will request a top 5 CB contract from the Cowboys if he has another season like last year and guys like Brown/Woods/Malik Collins I'll leave you leeway to estimate what they can reasonably get given their statistical position rank. 

Have at it. 

Boom and fucking head shot. Damn drew and vic got a fat dick slap right across the face. Haven't seen a roasting like that in a while.

Damn, that was brutal

[Trey3216 15452]

Let me do a little bit of research and see what contracts have what triggers and I’ll see what I can come up with.  Dallas never makes a contract that they can’t pull a lever here or push a button there to move cap money.  

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Wentz and Goff already locked up for a long while.

Feel like Daks asking price will be even higher than what they got by next offseason.

[Junior Miller 1502]

39 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

Let me do a little bit of research and see what contracts have what triggers and I’ll see what I can come up with.  Dallas never makes a contract that they can’t pull a lever here or push a button there to move cap money.  

There are outs on deals after 3-5 years once the guaranteed has been paid but they come at a cost. For one there's always a little dead money tied to it, but you also have to replace the player that you cut. The main ones after this season or Tyron and Tyrone Crawford, and they will almost certainly have to cut Crawford after the year and Tyron within another year at the latest. Maybe Tyron has told them his back is so bad and he doesn't want surgery so this will be his last year, and if so the Collins signing makes more sense but does he project to left tackle at all? 

Regardless, all these deals and the deal for Zeke won't effect them this year but starts hurting them not season and really gets bad in years 3 and 4. You can back load deals to make a little wiggle room but with so many big contracts all kind of starting within a two-year span you can't properly stagger them to time your cuts. When you're tying up 60% of the cap in 7 offensive players and you just gave a 105 million contract to a DE and another large one to a LB you don't have much left to keep other guys.

That would be bad but not horrific if it's for an offense that consistently ranks at the top of the league, but they're doing that to keep an offense that was 22nd in scoring and middle to bottom half of the league in a ton of stats. That is what makes absolutely zero sense. It would make more sense if they paid Dak but not Zeke or Cooper and not La'el, and used the money to keep the defense together that was top 10 in the league. 

[Trey3216 15452]

I’m aware how the system works man.  Like I said, Dallas writes contracts in a manner that enables money to be moved around when need be.  Tyron’s contract extension had triggers that were able to be used on pretty much an annual basis.  It basically allows you to move guaranteed money around which affects the cap in different ways.   It’s gonna be tight, but they’ll be able to move money on Martin and Frederick’s contracts, could cut Tyron and Tyrone, and a few other things.   Collins isn’t playing left tackle as he is left handed, and you tend to jab better with your opposite hand (which is a huge part of edge pass blocking).  

 

Anyway, I think they’re gonna be able to get more deals done than seems possible, as they’ll cut players or spread money across years to make the cap work.  Stephen helped write the cap laws, he kind of knows how to rig the contracts 

[SurlyBDR 23153]

4 hours ago, futureman said:

this is his third contract.  he’s already set for life.

Good thing he's not doing anything stupid with that money like buying bracelets, rings, watches and stupid fucking haircuts. 

[futureman 22698]

Just now, SurlyBDR said:

Good thing he's not doing anything stupid with that money like buying bracelets, rings, watches and stupid fucking haircuts. 

well he saved some money not paying for that rim-job.