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Dallas Cowboys 2019 Season Thread -- Aaaah Zeke Out?


Patrick Bateman

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2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Huh? He says yesterday was about Prescott and you cite season stats to disprove him?

You're funny. I mean you want to be smart and so you cite analytics and numbers all over the place, your problem is that you don't understand what you're citing. Basically ever.

So...Rocko?

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2 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

As Doug Pederson made adjustment after adjustment and worked to give the injured Eagles a fighting chance on Sunday, Jason Garrett sat back and watched the Cowboys’ season essentially slip away.”

.........................

Teams ultimately need coaches who understand the best possible ways to use their players, even when their original approach goes awry. The Eagles have one. The Cowboys do not. And that’s why, in a season when everything went wrong for the Eagles, they’ll likely be hosting a playoff game while the Cowboys will be sitting at home and wondering what could have been.“

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2019/12/23/21035315/eagles-cowboys-nfc-east-doug-pederson-jason-garrett-coaching
 

yep yep yep. 

Well, in fairness to Jason, he did clap.

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2 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Your image isn’t loading for me for some reason, but go look at Andy Dalton’s prime years. He could put up stats with the best of them. He had one of the best wrs in the league at the time, but he was an above average qb. You don’t pay slightly above average qbs top dollar. I don’t care what other teams have done. I’m not paying a guy 35mil with the hope that maybe one day he develops into that type of qb. Fuck that. Either he has it when you pay him, or he doesn’t. And Dak doesn’t have it yet. I’m not saying he won’t ever get there. He might. But that’s a crazy gamble to take. Accept your fucking discount, or let him test the open market. We really should probably franchise Cooper instead of Dak. You kinda put yourself in that position when you traded a first round pick for him. I would offer Dak a reasonable team friendly contract, and if he doesn’t take it, let him test the market. Straight up.

This isn't slightly above average:

Quote

So, everyone wants to know: who is the most valuable player this year? Despite Lamar Jackson’s effect on the Ravens (which is sizeable), the most valuable player in the NFL this season has been Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson.

In 908 snaps this season, the eighth-year pro has earned 3.1 wins above replacement, almost a full win more than the next-highest player in Dak Prescott (2.2). What’s most impressive about Wilson is that he’s accounted for over half of his team’s total WAR. Seattle is fifth among all NFL teams in cumulative player WAR through the first 14 weeks of the season, but only 19th if you don’t count quarterbacks.

The other MVP frontrunner, Jackson, is sixth in WAR (1.7 wins) through 14 weeks, as his Ravens are second in the NFL in WAR generated by non-quarterbacks and first in WAR generated by offensive linemen. Thus our grading system, and the PFF WAR model built off it, appears to be capturing the fact that Wilson is doing a great deal of the work for the Seahawks, while the Ravens are more of a team effort.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-what-is-pff-war-and-why-it-shows-russell-wilson-is-the-mvp

To keep things in perspective, a 2 WAR player in the NFL would be like a 20 WAR player in MLB, and 1 WAR in MLB is worth around $8-11M.  

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What happened on that 4th and 8th with a season on the line to have Cooper and Cobb not in there?

It looked to me like Cooper ran a deep route on third down and then just immediately ran to the sidelines to take himself out with the season on the fucking line! Now the head coach should have realized this and called timeout to make sure his best players are on the field for the most important play of the season, but there is zero way either those guys should have come anywhere near the sidelines. What championship level player in the history of the sport has ever done that with an entire season riding on one play? 

I think we're starting to see why Oakland was so willing to trade him. He's a nice guy and extremely talented but he doesn't have any "bad motherfuker attitude" in him. 

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41 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

This isn't slightly above average:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-what-is-pff-war-and-why-it-shows-russell-wilson-is-the-mvp

To keep things in perspective, a 2 WAR player in the NFL would be like a 20 WAR player in MLB, and 1 WAR in MLB is worth around $8-11M.  

I’d love to know how many defensive coordinators have said “no way in fuck are we letting Dak beat us today. If we lose, Dak is going to have to beat us” this year. I wonder how many times that’s happened throughout his career. And this isn’t hyperbole, but I think it’s literally 100% of the defensive coordinators that Dak has gone up against his entire career. This isn’t baseball. It isn’t an individual sport played within a team sport. It’s the ultimate team sport.

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You might have a point if Zeke didn't have to scarf down every chance to get 15 touches a game, if that...  on an offense supposedly built around the run.  and I would be cool with Zeke getting receptions as a function of the run game.

He ain't.

and Dak is being dared to beat every team Dallas plays. Looks like he's just below .500.  That ain't a shot at Dak, but rather the wonderboy OC and dipshit HC on the Dallas sidelines.

( if not serious, then ignore this post)

Edited by Iceman
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1 minute ago, Iceman said:

You might have a point if Zeke didn't have 15 touches a game, if that...

and Dak wasn't being dared to beat every team Dallas plays.

( if not serious, then ignore this post)

Don’t you think that has something to do with the looks that teams are giving us? That isn’t a rhetorical question, it’s an honest question. I don’t have the all 22 game film. I know some of it has to do with being behind in games, but a lot of it probably has to do with the looks we’re getting.

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3 minutes ago, Iceman said:

You might have a point if Zeke didn't have 15 touches a game, if that...

and Dak wasn't being dared to beat every team Dallas plays.

( if not serious, then ignore this post)

Why do you think the Cowboys are outliers with respect to other teams loading the box?  NFL, of course only publishes their stats piecemeal, but Dallas doesn't look like an outlier on the Y-axis here.

spacer.png

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1 minute ago, youdunnf'dup said:

They clearly have more heart than us, as cheesy as that is to say. They wanted it more. They played like their season was on the line

I mean if you were playing for clap clap Garrett and Pig Sooey Jerruh how hyped and motivated would you be to get a win by all means necessary? 

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8 minutes ago, perfectchaos007 said:

I mean if you were playing for clap clap Garrett and Pig Sooey Jerruh how hyped and motivated would you be to get a win by all means necessary? 

I get that, but after a certain point, how much pride do you actually have? You have ertz out there playing with a broken rib because their season is on the line. I don’t care if the coaches did sub Cooper out. Do you think any top flight wr with an ounce of pride is just going to accept that? Fuck no. I feel like if cooper said “uhh no, S my D, it’s 4th and 8 with our season on the line. I’m not coming out of this game”, the coaches would honor that. I’m not fully convinced he wanted to be out there. His body language was shit all game. I think he was perfectly content with Tavon Austin and Ventell Bryant taking his spot in that moment. 
 

Garrett isn’t a good coach. But this game was on the players as much as the coaches IMO. And if I had to place more blame on the players or the coaches, I’m putting it on the players.

Edited by youdunnf'dup
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2 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I get that, but after a certain point, how much pride do you actually have? You have ertz out there playing with a broken rib because their season is on the line. I don’t care if the coaches did sub Cooper out. Do you think any top flight wr with an ounce of pride is just going to accept that? Fuck no. I feel like if cooper said “uhh no, S my D, it’s 4th and 8 with our season on the line. I’m not coming out of this game”, the coaches would honor that. I’m not fully convinced he wanted to be out there. His body language was shit all game. I think he was perfectly content with Tavon Austin and Ventell Bryant taking his spot in that moment. 
 

Garrett isn’t a good coach. But this game was on the players as much as the coaches IMO. And if I had to place more blame on the players or the coaches, I’m putting it on the players.

Good point, and Zeke sat his ass down too on a 4th down which is why we went with Pollard (and he fumbled). On one hand I get it, if you're not feeling 100% then sitting out may be the right move, but if you're one of the best players on your team (like I believe Zeke and Cooper are), then even a banged up version of those players are better than whats behind them. Ertz realized that he was "that guy" on the Eagles and played with a broken rib like a boss.

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6 minutes ago, perfectchaos007 said:

Good point, and Zeke sat his ass down too on a 4th down which is why we went with Pollard (and he fumbled). On one hand I get it, if you're not feeling 100% then sitting out may be the right move, but if you're one of the best players on your team (like I believe Zeke and Cooper are), then even a banged up version of those players are better than whats behind them. Ertz realized that he was "that guy" on the Eagles and played with a broken rib like a boss.

Zeke hit his head pretty hard on the 2nd down, two plays before that pollard fumble. Other than that he played literally every snap. I don’t question zeke’s toughness or his heart. He may not be having the season we’re used to, but he’s one of the few guys on this team that I don’t question when it comes to him asking out on a play. When you go back and look at that replay, his head bounced off the grass like a basketball, and he immediately got up and waived to the sideline. Cooper on the other hand...

Edited by youdunnf'dup
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11 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I get that, but after a certain point, how much pride do you actually have? You have ertz out there playing with a broken rib because their season is on the line. I don’t care if the coaches did sub Cooper out. Do you think any top flight wr with an ounce of pride is just going to accept that? Fuck no. I feel like if cooper said “uhh no, S my D, it’s 4th and 8 with our season on the line. I’m not coming out of this game”, the coaches would honor that. I’m not fully convinced he wanted to be out there. His body language was shit all game. I think he was perfectly content with Tavon Austin and Ventell Bryant taking his spot in that moment. 
 

Garrett isn’t a good coach. But this game was on the players as much as the coaches IMO. And if I had to place more blame on the players or the coaches, I’m putting it on the players.

His body language has been shit since at least the Patriots game. He's played like a pussy for nearly half of the season. If Cooper is truly hurt then why has Devin Smith been inactive for nearly every game the entire season? 

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41 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Why do you think the Cowboys are outliers with respect to other teams loading the box?  NFL, of course only publishes their stats piecemeal, but Dallas doesn't look like an outlier on the Y-axis here.

spacer.png

what would you do if you were a DC?  Oh, it doesn't matter because carrottop lets you dictate the game.

Dallas should NOT be high on running a heavy offense.  They shouldn't have to with their personnel.

 

Edited by Iceman
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Thing I'm most depressed about is completely wasting Dak's rookie contract years. 

Now we have monster Dak/Zeke contracts, the highest paid OL in football and any one of them might break down down any second (getting old and beat up) and then who knows with Cooper.

On the defensive side Jaylon Smith and D law are both making big money. Already regretting both contracts. D law is obviously a good player but he had five sacks this season. Don't really care what the advanced stats say thats not good enough for someone making top 5 DE in the NFL kind of money....And Jaylon woof. He looked so lost at times.

Edited by Loch Ness Monster
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55 minutes ago, LonghornJudas said:

Oh, so there's an evaluation and action for players, but not the head coach. OK...

God forbid JJ has to admit JG was a failure. He will just let JGs contract expire and not outright fire his ass. I understand JG was on the radio today and pretty much threw KM and another coach under the bus for the 4th and 8 call. What exactly would you say you do here, Garrett (cue Office Space clip)?

i mean other than clap and spit and stare wordlessly at the field? 
JJ is ultimately to blame behind the last 24 years. It’s his show. His coach. His players. His cap space or lack thereof. 
I heard rumors that JJ will probably go for a coach he knows and is comfortable with and has history with—if it comes to that. Bringing back Norv to be OC blah blah blah. Because JJ can’t allow us to see the truth. That his delusional desire for a MNC that isn’t Connected to Jimmy and to recreate the same 1990’s team simply cannot work without a real coach that has real controls over personnel decisions. 

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Good point was made about why this team is such an embarrassing piece of shit. Yesterday in a fight for a single game for the division and a playoff spot you had Ertz getting his ribs fractured early yet doing everything to play through it. Had another eagles player with a messed up elbow fighting to play through it. 

Yet the cowboys had two of their biggest star players in Cooper and Zeke taking themselves out of the game in key situations because they're soft. 

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6 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

This is my hope. Someone that has the politeness publicly of Garrett, to appease Jerry’s ego, but also one that could go into his office and say, “Jerry, I know you’ve gotta have your press conferences after the game. I knew it coming into taking this job - this is your team and you’ve gotta let the world know that at every opportunity.  But we are having open tryouts for kicker next week and I have every intention of cutting Maher. You need to stop answering those personnel questions, and defer the media to me.”

Garrett was incapable of doing that and it undermined him greatly. There’s a way to do it with a guy with a giant ego, and Garrett was too passive. He also can’t really coach as aggressively as you need to in today’s NFL. 

Garrett was incapable of scaring his players, and it wasn't just Jones' interference. Garrett was/is weak. Didn't Jimmy Johnson, early in his first season, fire a fairly popular starting cornerback for shaking hands with an opponent after a loss (and smiling), or something like that? (The name Everett rings a bell) There was never any question in those players' minds as to who controlled their future. They respected Johnson. They snicker at Clappy behind his back. They probably  feel much the same way about Jones.

Edited by Irish Wrist Watch
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1 minute ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

Garrett was incapable of scaring his players, and it wasn't just Jones' interference. Garrett was/is weak. Didn't Jimmy Johnson, early in his first season, fire a starting cornerback for shaking hands with an opponent after a loss (and smiling), or something like that? There was never any question in those players' minds as to who controlled their future. They respected Johnson. They snicker at Clappy behind his back.

It’s like kiddos with their parents. One parent says no so the kids go to the other parent to get their way. It’s human nature. JJ controls everything and while I have no doubt the players have some sort of friendly relationship with JG he’s not really in control of jackshit and they all know it. Nothing really will change as long as JJ insists on making the kind of decisions that most owners stay out of. Oh well. I almost hate that the season still has a ray of hope in it. Small though it is. The Eagles are still really beat up and could honestly lose to the Giants. What kills me is that we couldn’t win when we controlled our own destiny. Didn’t have enough fire to do it.

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Kellen Moore called a perfectly fine game. I have no problem with him. The defense didn’t play its best game, but it made enough plays to win. Make the god damn throw and hit your wr in stride. Catch the fucking ball when it does hit you in the hands. You can’t go out there, throw the ball and catch it for them. So many drives were stalled dead in their tracks yesterday with bad passes and dropped passes. 

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20 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

 

 

This is the thing right here. All 11 on the field weren't doing their jobs well enough often enough. Or maybe there’s about 4-5 players per play that are more critical to the success of any given play, and one of those didn’t do his job too often. 
 

it could be the players, but there’s been different players from romo and dez to how ever many others. The constant for a good while is the head coach and above. 

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9 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

 The constant for a good while is the head coach and above. 

The constant has been JJ as the face of the franchise.  He should be like other owners, cashing checks and collecting trophies.  He's just incapable of doing it.  Fuck him and may he rot in hell.  I'm going to start blaming the fans that pay to go see Cowboys games from now on.  Boycott the stupid mother fucker.  Don't buy any gear.  I know he will get NFL money, but if that stadium is empty of Cowboys fans  maybe he will get the message...but probably not. 

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The Cowboys will continue to go nowhere until Jerry shows his commitment to winning by making material changes. Starting by his stepping down as GM and his hiring someone who is committed to building a winning team. 

But that isn’t happening, and as long as Jerry isn’t willing to do everything in his power to build a winning team, the Cowboys won’t be a winning team. 

No GM with Jerry’s piss poor track record would still have their job in a well functioning organization. 

 

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30 minutes ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

Garrett was incapable of scaring his players, and it wasn't just Jones' interference. Garrett was/is weak. Didn't Jimmy Johnson, early in his first season, fire a fairly popular starting cornerback for shaking hands with an opponent after a loss (and smiling), or something like that? (The name Everett rings a bell) There was never any question in those players' minds as to who controlled their future. They respected Johnson. They snicker at Clappy behind his back. They probably  feel much the same way about Jones.

asthma field is over there brah ------->>>>

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3 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Everson Walls. He just didn’t get resigned the following year. And he won a championship with the Giants that following year playing a crucial role. Sometimes new coaches have to shake some shit up. It happens. 

At best, that’s the second most remembered thing he did in a cowboys uniform. 

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4 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Garrett isn’t a good coach. But this game was on the players as much as the coaches IMO. And if I had to place more blame on the players or the coaches, I’m putting it on the players.

The problem imho is the coaches aren't getting the talent or motivation out of the players. We've seen what they can do coached up and motivated, but that's just a couple games a season. Everyone has become comfortable and complacent with their position and the routine in Frisco. Nobody on this team should be comfortable or complacent.

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1 hour ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

Garrett was incapable of scaring his players, and it wasn't just Jones' interference. Garrett was/is weak. Didn't Jimmy Johnson, early in his first season, fire a fairly popular starting cornerback for shaking hands with an opponent after a loss (and smiling), or something like that? (The name Everett rings a bell) There was never any question in those players' minds as to who controlled their future. They respected Johnson. They snicker at Clappy behind his back. They probably  feel much the same way about Jones.

 

here is the article about Jimmy being pissed about Everson .....guessing Jimmy would not enjoy the jersey exchanges that happen these days

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/11/14/Johnson-says-cornerback-Everson-Walls-can-play-better/2995627022800/

Everson was a HOF finalist a couple of years ago..... he was a lot more than popular 

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I don't know why fans are complaining that Cooper wasn't in late. He shouldn't have been in because he had been mailing it in all night, like most of the last 6 games. He should have been in the the game less.

I wish Jarwin had been forced into the game plan more in the last several weeks. He's one of the more dynamic receivers they had and they need to get him more in the offense, even if it means more 2 TE sets, or sitting Witten down more. But that would require making an adjustment.

It's not like they never play against teams with decent receiving TEs that kill them regularly to learn that from. Like the one they played yesterday.

Edited by DougO
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1 hour ago, RPM said:

The problem imho is the coaches aren't getting the talent or motivation out of the players. We've seen what they can do coached up and motivated, but that's just a couple games a season. Everyone has become comfortable and complacent with their position and the routine in Frisco. Nobody on this team should be comfortable or complacent.

You’re not wrong, but again, some of it is just about playing with intensity. How much motivation do you really need from your coaches to play in a “division championship” win or go home game against your biggest rival. It’s one thing if you just get flat out out-coached. That really didn’t happen yesterday. They just played harder than us. They played with more heart than we did. They cared more than we did. To me, that’s on the players. You should be able to go into that game with no coaches on your sideline, and play like your season is on the line. We’re “talented” but I’m really starting to question whether we have the “right kind of guys” on this team. 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Everson Walls. He just didn’t get resigned the following year. And he won a championship with the Giants that following year playing a crucial role. Sometimes new coaches have to shake some shit up. It happens. 

Walls was past his prime and didn't fit what the JJ defensive scheme called for, a more athletic Cb that can cover. Walls was never that, he was just a gamer that had great instincts. He might have made a decent safety. Glad he got his ring, and he's a great guy. Very humble dude, unusual for a Db of his stature.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I think Cowboys and Aggies will won Super Bowl and SEC, respectively, next year. What do you think Randolph?

The Cowboys have bad team chemistry. That falls completely on the General Manager. 

Until Jerry is willing to do everything in his power to help the team become a winning program, the Cowboys won’t be a winning program. 

Jerry needs to step aside and name a new GM. 

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I think a lot of times Garrett's teams had decent chemistry, they played for him, they were tight knit. They just weren't a well coordinated team. This year they did seem entitled and had spent all offseason huffing their own farts and kept expecting the troubles to pass so they could return to glory.

From the first season of Garrett the problem has been the same, the same stale formulas over and over, getting outcoached, lack of adjustments, getting the minimum out of the team's talents and not figuring out how to feature things they can actually do well, and minimize their weaknesses, while exploiting the weaknesses of the opponent. Everybody knows that the Cowboys do and how to stop it, and when they do they have nowhere to go. When your OL no longer dominates and our D isn't ballin' at top speed, it's gonna get you beat. Teams that had any kind of decent intellect in coaching played the Cowboys like a $2 fiddle every time.

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13 minutes ago, RPM said:

source.gif

And therein lies the truth. Jerry Jones is an 80 yr old GM with no track record of success who insists he’s going to get it right eventually. 

The Cowboys suck on the field because the organization isn’t serious about finding the best available minds and having them focus their energies on building a winning organization. 

So if Jerry isn’t willing to do everything in his power to build a winning team, why is anyone surprised the Cowboys aren’t a winning team? 

Edited by Randolph Duke
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1 hour ago, michaelpshayes said:
 

here is the article about Jimmy being pissed about Everson .....guessing Jimmy would not enjoy the jersey exchanges that happen these days

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/11/14/Johnson-says-cornerback-Everson-Walls-can-play-better/2995627022800/

Everson was a HOF finalist a couple of years ago..... he was a lot more than popular 

Thanks. I remembered wrong. That was thirty years ago. Jimmy told him to get to the locker room and later said Walls would lose some playing time.

I did find this with a Google search. Johnson cut running back  Curvin Richards for fumbling... last game of the season - on the way to a Super Bowl.  

Quote

During the last game of the 1992 regular season, when the Cowboys were playing the Chicago Bears, the team rested most of its regular players in the fourth quarter (including Smith), to prepare for the upcoming playoffs. Richards saw extensive playing time and scored a touchdown, but also committed two costly fumbles in a 27-14 win.[6] The next day, Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson released him, citing the fact that he could not tolerate a running back with a fumbling problem going into the playoffs, even though he would not be able to replace his roster spot by signing a new player, that he would have to pay him in full for all of the remaining games and eventually would have to give him a Super Bowl ring. Thus, Richards missed the entire 1992 postseason, including the Cowboys' 52-17 win over the Buffalo Bills in Super Bowl XXVII.[7]

Those were the days...

Often, when a team makes a lot of mistakes, it's because they're not well coached. They don't work hard enough in practice. They don't get enough reps. They drop balls. They blow assignments. The coach isn't smart enough to know his team isn't ready or he's too much of a pussy to hold them to account. Look no further than special teams to see that Garrett was a clueless fucking coach. Belichick would never tolerate the bullshit we saw on the field Sunday afternoon.

Edited by Irish Wrist Watch
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1 hour ago, DougO said:

I don't know why fans are complaining that Cooper wasn't in late. He shouldn't have been in because he had been mailing it in all night, like most of the last 6 games. He should have been in the the game less.

I wish Jarwin had been forced into the game plan more in the last several weeks. He's one of the more dynamic receivers they had and they need to get him more in the offense, even if it means more 2 TE sets, or sitting Witten down more. But that would require making an adjustment.

It's not like they never play against teams with decent receiving TEs that kill them regularly to learn that from. Like the one they played yesterday.

Witten sucks the fucking life out of this offense. Jarwin has so much potential but that selfish fuckstick had to come back and get a charity give away from this team because they have no idea what they are doing. Remember when people actually bought that Witten would have to earn his role back and his snaps would be decreased? Lmao. Dude walked back after he "retired" or quit and did zero to earn his way back. These 3 yard routes suck the life out of anything we try to do. Mind numbing how this guy still gets on the field as often as he does. He adds zero. Jarwin is cheap right now. Dynamic. Speedy. Can stretch the field. Why the hell did we bring back Witten for $5mill to do nothing?

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