Dallas Cowboys 2019 Season Thread -- Aaaah Zeke Out?

[Vic Mackey 46797]

Dak's accuracy chart. Flawless

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

45 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Pay Dak, this week. I feel good about this season, even though it was just the shitty giants.

See, I’m of the opinion that he’s gonna be expensive as fuck regardless. I like the idea of having him play the whole year as a motivated contract year. It’s not gonna happen, but i wish they would approach it like that 

Edited September 9, 2019 by youdunnf'dup

[Jive Turkey 12500]

I really wish the Cowboys would have held firm with Zeke and let him hold out. Yesterday’s result would have been very similar without Zeke. Today, there would have been panic in the Zeke camp.  The leverage would have moved all to the Dallas side. Oh well.  Doesn’t matter. The Cowboys were never serious about playing hardball with Zeke. 

[Vic Mackey 46797]

1 hour ago, Jive Turkey said:

I really wish the Cowboys would have held firm with Zeke and let him hold out. Yesterday’s result would have been very similar without Zeke. Today, there would have been panic in the Zeke camp.  The leverage would have moved all to the Dallas side. Oh well.  Doesn’t matter. The Cowboys were never serious about playing hardball with Zeke. 

No need to play hardball to grandstand and make a point for your own ego. Zeke has always been apart of the long term plan here. Why fuck around with that? Plus, Zeke always starts off slow to start seasons. He gets going about week 3. 

[Junior Miller 1502]

2 hours ago, Jive Turkey said:

I really wish the Cowboys would have held firm with Zeke and let him hold out. Yesterday’s result would have been very similar without Zeke. Today, there would have been panic in the Zeke camp.  The leverage would have moved all to the Dallas side. Oh well.  Doesn’t matter. The Cowboys were never serious about playing hardball with Zeke. 

Yeah it would have been exactly the same. Pollard could have done the exact same thing Zeke did and Alfred Morris could have handled the little bit Pollard did. And being able to get rid of Zeke's contract after next season would have reduced the monetary impact of Dak's  contract by 12 to 15 million a year. 

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Junior Miller

[Vic Mackey 46797]

2 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

Yeah it would have been exactly the same. Pollard could have done the exact same thing Zeke did and Alfred Morris could have handled the little bit Pollard did. And being able to get rid of Zeke's contract after next season whatever reduced the monetary impact of Dex contract by 12 to 15 million a year. 

 

Thank god you don't run this team. Fucking moron. Some people have no idea how the schedule progresses to getting more difficult and how Zeke will pick up the pace as the season goes on. 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Vic Mackey

[Junior Miller 1502]

For the offense to run at peak efficiency Zeke needs to be in the 10 to 15 carries a game range. If they're running him 23 to 30+ times a game that means they're getting locked into a defensive war and that's not what they should be wanting to do. two of the last three seasons when they played that style every game their defense was completely worn out by the end of the year, especially last season when they had nothing left for the Rams. 

Kellen Moore just showed you everything that I've been saying, it slaps you right in the face, and you still don't seem to realize how the offense needs to be run going forward to maximize the team's potential. If you can't see it now then I guess there's no hope for you and you'll just be locked into this Zeke cocksucking fest forever. 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Junior Miller

['stache 21726]

15 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

No need to play hardball to grandstand and make a point for your own ego. Zeke has always been apart of the long term plan here. Why fuck around with that? Plus, Zeke always starts off slow to start seasons. He gets going about week 3. 

My understanding of another benefit is that we essentially accelerate his big dollar years starting now as opposed to later, while hes in his prime, and lets us move on if necessary earlier if he wears down quickly.

[kingkoopa6 8283]

bruh. that randall cobb stiff arm.

 

"give off me boy!"

I like this Cobb guy

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

16 minutes ago, kingkoopa6 said:

bruh. that randall cobb stiff arm.

 

"give off me boy!"

I like this Cobb guy

I was just talking to my dad about this topic this morning. For all the shit that he was talking, try to imagine Cole Beasley attempting to pull off some of the stuff Cobb did in this game. 40 yard tds downfield, stiff arming defenders and fighting for extra yards to get the first down. Then, after doing that, go look at cole Beasley’s week one stat line. Same shit he always does. I know what the contracts say, but Cobb is just a better football player by everything you would measure a football player on besides health. 

[Patrick Bateman 3874]

Baldinger goes over some subtle changes made by Moore which translated into success yesterday.

RPO with motion:

Multi motion to get LBs to give false step into screen:

Details.  Dak's development:

And some stats (which may not mean much, have to see with larger SS):

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Patrick Bateman

[Junior Miller 1502]

Baldinger saying Jerry was wrong. Everyone is having a great time after all. 

[DougO 5238]

Nothing really that complex about the newish offense, just addition by subtraction. Linehan was smothering the offense with his predictability. Now they do things more like an actual NFL team. Good for the big-headed midget.

Edited September 10, 2019 by DougO

[Soul Glo 54]

Oh yeah. Feel-good Monday....

[Pig Bellmont 8660]

8 hours ago, Jive Turkey said:

I really wish the Cowboys would have held firm with Zeke and let him hold out. Yesterday’s result would have been very similar without Zeke. Today, there would have been panic in the Zeke camp.  The leverage would have moved all to the Dallas side. Oh well.  Doesn’t matter. The Cowboys were never serious about playing hardball with Zeke. 

I’m with this 100%

[Vic Mackey 46797]

Demarcus gives no fucks about this fucking dorky kid in a Giants jersey lmao. And also didn't apologize for it haha

[Vic Mackey 46797]

Also, I find it funny you have people actually wanting to put lesser talent on the field. And for what? Saving some money for dry powder reasons? Lulz. the goal is to put the best players on the field. Signing Zeke might mean some mid level player on defense goes elsewhere. Big fucking deal. Who gives a shit about saving money. Get the best players on the field and go win. You want to replace one of the best RBs in the league with some run of the mill backup. Awesome strategy. 

Dallas has the cap space to sign every fucking player they need to keep and will be just fine. They have played the cap over the years for this very moment (to sign their own). But for some reason, fans are obsessed with saving money because they think that wins championships. Eagles and Rams went all in when they could and it worked for them. This isn't MLB where you are building for the next decade. NFL doesn't work like that. Zeke in this offense makes it better. You have to respect him every time he is out there. You don't have to respect Pollard or Morris. He opens up so much. And if Kellen is opening up this offense, even better. Pick your poison. Pollard or Morris are not threats at the main backs.

[Hornius Emeritus 12349]

Dallas player is the fastest since 2017. Pretty amazing to watch him track down Saquon. 

 

 

[gyroprotagonist 2591]

yeah, i thought no way in hell anyone catches him.  then cheeto just kept gaining and maintaining the angle to get him out of bounds.

[Junior Miller 1502]

36 minutes ago, gyroprotagonist said:

yeah, i thought no way in hell anyone catches him.  then cheetah just kept gaining and maintaining the angle to get him out of bounds.

 

[Vic Mackey 46797]

[Quagmire 2140]

bruh. that randall cobb stiff arm.
 
"give off me boy!"
I like this Cobb guy

No shit, for a little dude that was a hell of stiff arm.

[immortal13 4059]

7 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Also, I find it funny you have people actually wanting to put lesser talent on the field. And for what? Saving some money for dry powder reasons? Lulz. the goal is to put the best players on the field. Signing Zeke might mean some mid level player on defense goes elsewhere. Big fucking deal. Who gives a shit about saving money. Get the best players on the field and go win. You want to replace one of the best RBs in the league with some run of the mill backup. Awesome strategy. 

Dallas has the cap space to sign every fucking player they need to keep and will be just fine. They have played the cap over the years for this very moment (to sign their own). But for some reason, fans are obsessed with saving money because they think that wins championships. Eagles and Rams went all in when they could and it worked for them. This isn't MLB where you are building for the next decade. NFL doesn't work like that. Zeke in this offense makes it better. You have to respect him every time he is out there. You don't have to respect Pollard or Morris. He opens up so much. And if Kellen is opening up this offense, even better. Pick your poison. Pollard or Morris are not threats at the main backs.

Fans act like it's their money

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

 

[Post Oak 20171]

45 minutes ago, Quagmire said:

 

 

No shit, for a little dude that was a hell of stiff arm.

 

 

Cobb's only on a one year deal.  I think Dev would be a great replacement if they decide not to resign him or even if they do. 

Great hands. Great speed and built like a bowling ball.

Just something I thought about Sunday watching him

[Vic Mackey 46797]

Dak wins NFC Offensive Player of the Week.

[Drew 2268]

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 10:23 AM, Vic Mackey said:

Dak's accuracy chart. Flawless

Yeah, but those 4 balls weren't perfect.  STILL has work to do

-Dak Hater

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 1:14 PM, Vic Mackey said:

No need to play hardball to grandstand and make a point for your own ego. Zeke has always been apart of the long term plan here. Why fuck around with that? Plus, Zeke always starts off slow to start seasons. He gets going about week 3. 

All of this.  NO reason to mess around.

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 1:21 PM, Junior Miller said:

Yeah it would have been exactly the same. Pollard could have done the exact same thing Zeke did and Alfred Morris could have handled the little bit Pollard did. And being able to get rid of Zeke's contract after next season would have reduced the monetary impact of Dak's  contract by 12 to 15 million a year. 

 

No it wouldn't.  Some of those play fakes(particularly the one in the Red Zone that allowed Witten to strolling for a TD) were better because Zeke was in there.

I know some advanced stat nerd will say it's the same regardless...but I watched the ENTIRE defense, even the DB to the far right, go with Zeke and just let Witten waltz right past them.

Sure the play fake would work with Pollard, but I doubt it's quite that effective, at least on that play.

 

Also, you still don't understand contracts, or the Cap so please stop.

1 hour ago, Vic Mackey said:

Dak wins NFC Offensive Player of the Week.

No doubt.

[Vic Mackey 46797]

 

[Pig Bellmont 8660]

On 9/10/2019 at 12:28 PM, Vic Mackey said:

Also, I find it funny you have people actually wanting to put lesser talent on the field. And for what? Saving some money for dry powder reasons? Lulz. the goal is to put the best players on the field. Signing Zeke might mean some mid level player on defense goes elsewhere. Big fucking deal. Who gives a shit about saving money. Get the best players on the field and go win. You want to replace one of the best RBs in the league with some run of the mill backup. Awesome strategy. 

Dallas has the cap space to sign every fucking player they need to keep and will be just fine. They have played the cap over the years for this very moment (to sign their own). But for some reason, fans are obsessed with saving money because they think that wins championships. Eagles and Rams went all in when they could and it worked for them. This isn't MLB where you are building for the next decade. NFL doesn't work like that. Zeke in this offense makes it better. You have to respect him every time he is out there. You don't have to respect Pollard or Morris. He opens up so much. And if Kellen is opening up this offense, even better. Pick your poison. Pollard or Morris are not threats at the main backs.

Point of order: Dallas fans are obsessed with the cap because ownership has done a terrible fucking job of managing it over the past 15+ years. 

[Drew 2268]

1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Point of order: Dallas fans are obsessed with the cap because ownership has done a terrible fucking job of managing it over the past 15+ years. 

Point of order, that's wrong.  They have actually been VERY good at handling the cap for the last 5-8 years at least.  The decade before that? Maybe you have a point.

Even Romo's Cap Hit(which was a unique situation as he retired early and Dak unseated him) and Dez's cap hit did not adversely affect their cap.

[Vic Mackey 46797]

4 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Point of order: Dallas fans are obsessed with the cap because ownership has done a terrible fucking job of managing it over the past 15+ years. 

They actually have reigned in the cap pretty well now. They got all those terrible contracts off the books and all that dead money. They managed it perfectly. We have enough room to sign every talented player we have and want to stay here for the core. Dak, Cooper, Zeke, Fred, Tyron. Zach, Collins, DLaw, Jaylon. There is your core. You build around that. They will get their entire offense under contract for the next half decade. Zeke is probably the best RB in the league. Cooper is top 10. Both are very young. Dak is a top 10 QB. Zach and Fred are top 3 at their positions.

Then they should be able to sign LVE in a few years. They have set themselves up well. My only complaint is that Garrett is still here but if Kellen can be out boy wonder genius, he could cancel out Garrett. I think we need to move on from Rod on defense, too.

[Vic Mackey 46797]

This article is pretty fun. Can't remember the last time a publication like Deadspin posted something positive about Dallas on the field.

 

The Cowboys Look Fun As Hell

https://deadspin.com/the-cowboys-look-fun-as-hell-1838044163?utm_medium=socialflow&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&fbclid=IwAR0rhZwOWrvsalbtDLmJ5v8BDpz9mrAdMQl31ERh9A8qnMiylCGx1TyroII

[Junior Miller 1502]

For the most part they have managed the cap ok. They have to sign Dak and Cooper and the Lael Collins signing is kind of weird because on the surface they had set up the last 2 drafts to let Collins walk. I wonder if his signing signals they think McGovern has high bust probability. 

The horrible signing is Zeke. Unless the cap is going up 50+ million in the next two years you just can't justify paying 4 of the 5 starting OL high position money, paying a QB high position money, and paying a RB the richest contract ever. Look at what San Diego did to replace Gordon's production and look at how Moore used his backs in this game.

That's what you want from running backs and you can get it with cheap mid-round guys. Having the rest of the league figure that out while you're paying a back the most money ever is a disadvantage going forward in a razor thin margin league. Since the 2019 draft class is looking pretty bust right now they either need the cap ceiling to explode greatly or to have the next two drafts filled with the defensive talent of the 2016 draft. That's tough to do. Otherwise this season looks like the open window before they start losing the mid level guys that make up a very necessary part of a contending team. 

Anyway, enough contract talk as the season is on. Now let's just hope they hit their one shot in the last year of this window. 

 

[Post Oak 20171]

It's important to remember that the reason PA worked and will continue to work is because of the threat of Zeke.  

That will be the case in every game until Zekes wheels fall off.  

I'm pumped about Moore making Daks life easier but it still starts with teams trying to stop Zeke.

 

[Vic Mackey 46797]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Cobb runs circles around Beasley. Saying Pollard coulda done what Zeke did is laughable. He was given the same exact number of carries and produced less than half the yardage. Glad we have Zeke. In a lot of games this year, we will need double his carry load from Sunday. 

Exactly. Pollard looked exactly what he is. A backup RB and that's it. He's no longer running against backup defenders playing half speed in scrimmages. As well as running vanilla schemes. It counts now and the speed is way different than preseason and he's playing against starters. People said the same junk when Emmitt was holding out. That this line was so good, we could plug anyone in. False. Zeke is light years better than Pollard. In every aspect. Zeke didn't even play one down of football in 9 months and zero training camp and he comes in and looks much better than the boy wonder Pollard. As he should. Zeke will only get better.

[Vic Mackey 46797]

Chris Simms talking about Dak's new throwing motion

 

[Vic Mackey 46797]

51 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

It's important to remember that the reason PA worked and will continue to work is because of the threat of Zeke.  

That will be the case in every game until Zekes wheels fall off.  

I'm pumped about Moore making Daks life easier but it still starts with teams trying to stop Zeke.

 

No one respects Pollard at all. Teams respect Zeke and have to account for him when he's on the field. He opens this offense so much. Pollard is a run of the mill backup RB. 

[Junior Miller 1502]

3 hours ago, Post Oak said:

It's important to remember that the reason PA worked and will continue to work is because of the threat of Zeke.  

That will be the case in every game until Zekes wheels fall off.  

I'm pumped about Moore making Daks life easier but it still starts with teams trying to stop Zeke.

 

That's actually a fairly common misnomer. All of the stats show the level and success of the running game don't impact playaction much. Any professional running back is good enough to burn a defense of they don't respect the run at all. 

[Irish Wrist Watch 1340]

It makes sense that NY was overplaying the run. The next opponent may back off a bit after Dak's success against NY. Wouldn't be surprised to see Zeke put up 125 yards this week.

[gyroprotagonist 2591]

13 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

That's actually a fairly common misnomer. All of the stats show the level and success of the running game don't impact playaction much. Any professional running back is good enough to burn a defense of they don't respect the run at all. 

Yeah, just look at the deadspin article and the TD pass to Jarwin was 3 defenders biting like hell with Zeke not in there at RB.  

Quote

The data says there’s no correlation between play action success and a strong or established running game. Two plays later, Prescott and the Cowboys demonstrated exactly how this looks. Elliott isn’t even on the field, but as Prescott faked a handoff to Tony Pollard, two Giants linebackers plus safety Antoine Bethea got sucked in. The result was an easy touchdown to tight end Blake Jarwin

It's just human nature and ingrained in defenders from the time the put on pads.  They are going to bite or at least pause on a fake hand off no matter who is back there.  No defender is consciously saying "That guy is not Zeke so I don't need help out on run D at all.  I'll just stay back here and provide better coverage" .  D coordinators may be wishing that, but it does not seem true yet.

[Junior Miller 1502]

46 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

This is ridiculous. “All of the stats”. Sounds convincing. 

Its like you’re trying really hard to be contrarian, but you’re not cheeky and fun like futureman. You’re cruel and tragic. Very simply, the threat of Zeke in play action is significant. The threat of an untested 4th round rookie....is not. 

Nope, you're a dope. There's no strong correlation in the data, you're just parroting old school misnomers that data has rendered obsolete. 

Here's one analysis for starters:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/rushing-success-and-play-action-passing

There's plenty more if you want to look. 

[Junior Miller 1502]

Futureman says stupid shit to get a rise out of people. 

I say things that are legitimately correct. You're just too stupid to realize it. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Junior Miller

[gsoda3 3211]

how the line blocks matters more on play action than who's taking the handoff. 

[Drew 2268]

22 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

For the most part they have managed the cap ok. They have to sign Dak and Cooper and the Lael Collins signing is kind of weird because on the surface they had set up the last 2 drafts to let Collins walk. I wonder if his signing signals they think McGovern has high bust probability. 

The horrible signing is Zeke. Unless the cap is going up 50+ million in the next two years you just can't justify paying 4 of the 5 starting OL high position money, paying a QB high position money, and paying a RB the richest contract ever. Look at what San Diego did to replace Gordon's production and look at how Moore used his backs in this game.

 

 

Is that like the LVE pick showed that Jaylon was probably a bust?  Not even likely.

McGovern is hurt and taking a long time to recover.  He was drafted to provide depth in the future, and more than likely, he or Williams is the Tryon replacement.

Just stop with the Zeke signing.  It was NOT bad.  They can get away from him before he starts to decline, and that's ALL that matters, since his contract will not stop them from signing anyone.

[Vic Mackey 46797]

[Vic Mackey 46797]

[Braff Zacklin 13332]

Put me in the "overpaid for Zeke" camp. Didn't think he had much leverage given his offseason troubles, but $90M later shows what I know.

Also put me in the "Zeke is not easily replaceable" camp. He's a big part of our offense and helps Dak immensely, even on days when his numbers are underwhelming.

Yes, it's possible to have both beliefs; they aren't contradictory or mutually exclusive.

Don't have a problem with Witten's return--he's a favorite and a legend--but wish he'd accepted the veteran minimum or something far more reasonable than $4.5M/yr. But that's on Jerrah and his boy. Besides, it's only a 1-year deal and the space was there, so I guess Jerrah threw him a bone. He's certainly earned it.

Honestly, a consistent pass rush is the only thing that will keep us out of the Super Bowl (barring injuries, of course). Linebackers are good, secondary is solid, and we're OK against the run (still having Rams nightmares), but an elite pass rush would cover up any mistakes.

Maybe with Kellen calling the shots on offense, we can simply outscore everyone, a la the NFC version of the Chiefs.

 

[Vic Mackey 46797]

1 hour ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Put me in the "overpaid for Zeke" camp. Didn't think he had much leverage given his offseason troubles, but $90M later shows what I know.

Also put me in the "Zeke is not easily replaceable" camp. He's a big part of our offense and helps Dak immensely, even on days when his numbers are underwhelming.

Yes, it's possible to have both beliefs; they aren't contradictory or mutually exclusive.

Don't have a problem with Witten's return--he's a favorite and a legend--but wish he'd accepted the veteran minimum or something far more reasonable than $4.5M/yr. But that's on Jerrah and his boy. Besides, it's only a 1-year deal and the space was there, so I guess Jerrah threw him a bone. He's certainly earned it.

Honestly, a consistent pass rush is the only thing that will keep us out of the Super Bowl (barring injuries, of course). Linebackers are good, secondary is solid, and we're OK against the run (still having Rams nightmares), but an elite pass rush would cover up any mistakes.

Maybe with Kellen calling the shots on offense, we can simply outscore everyone, a la the NFC version of the Chiefs.

 

Defense is what did the Chiefs in. They could not get the Pats off the field in the 1st half and the Pats just dominated and gassed them. Also, they could not get Brady off the field at all in the 4th qtr and OT. And they had one of the most explosive offenses we have seen. Their offense did give them a few lead late but their defense shit both of them away and did not even allow their offense to see the ball in OT. I have no confidence in just trying to outscore everyone. At some point this defense needs to carry their own weight, something they never do in the playoffs. Well, the divisional round that is. They get gutted constantly in that round and that goes back a decade. 

We have no consistent pass rush at all and our run defense, especially up the middle is soft. I worry about that. The offense will be fine. 

[Vic Mackey 46797]

I have read his attitude is terrible and childish and that is a big part of why they have made him inactive and in no hurry to play him.

 

[DougO 5238]

On 9/11/2019 at 8:46 PM, Vic Mackey said:

No one respects Pollard at all. Teams respect Zeke and have to account for him when he's on the field. He opens this offense so much. Pollard is a run of the mill backup RB. 

Pollard might be a good runner/receiver, we will see. But as I said long ago when he was the star of camp, he won't see the field very much in real games until he learns pass protection, and he has a loooong way to go with that.