Alex Jones

[Chopper 17230]

Shot and chaser:

 

[troph 24783]

3 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

SCROTUM!!!!

Yeah. Story has been told before but  a few years ago I went to lunch there  with @Pescado_Rojo @Kyrie Eleison and @Brisketexan, and they were out. Out of Chili.

At the Texas Chili Parlor. 

I fucking loved Austin access TV and catharsis. The hippie commune lady too. vintage Alex Jones was entertaining as hell I’ll admit. His videos infiltrating what was it called redwood something or other with the effigies and burning owls. Omg that was amazing entertainment. 

[jimmyjazz 45899]

Nothing topped Zendik Farm.

[troph 24783]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

Nothing topped Zendik Farm.

That was it omg yes!!! I’d come home from work waiting tables and stay up til 3am watching all that shit. Fond memories.

[Sawbonz 27547]

The loons are out in force in the comments to Berenson 

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

Just looking at him there’s no way he doesn’t have a massive heart attack really soon.  Hope it’s in court and people think he’s joking around so he just flops around and dies.

[6th Street 6392]

51 minutes ago, troph said:

I fucking loved Austin access TV and catharsis. The hippie commune lady too. vintage Alex Jones was entertaining as hell I’ll admit. His videos infiltrating what was it called redwood something or other with the effigies and burning owls. Omg that was amazing entertainment. 

Bohemian grove 

[staboner 4969]

fuck you alex jones fuckface

[Mdhorn 5948]

6 hours ago, HenryJames said:

First they came for the before picture, and I said nothing because fuck him. Then they came for the after picture, and I still said nothing because it’s the same as the before picture.

He smiles with his bellybutton.  If only that smile was on its way to the pokey.  

[Upgrayedd 5810]

35 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Just looking at him there’s no way he doesn’t have a massive heart attack really soon.  Hope it’s in court and people think he’s joking around so he just flops around and dies.

During sentencing 

[staboner 4969]

ive had a shit fucking day but i am just to the fucking moon on seeing this BS. no one else i can think of deserves it more. waste of fucking space and time you shithead

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

4 minutes ago, staboner said:

ive had a shit fucking day but i am just to the fucking moon on seeing this BS. no one else i can think of deserves it more. waste of fucking space and time you shithead

No nukes…and Alex Jones gets his ass handed to him on a platter?  My friend, that’s a good day, in the end. 

[Fastbreak 3984]

 

[TXSG8R 3362]

This was the medical records comment I didn’t fully catch in real time. 
 

So this specifically seems bad for Reynal, not so much Jones?

[Bullneck 19079]

11 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Yeah. Story has been told before but  a few years ago I went to lunch there  with @Pescado_Rojo @Kyrie Eleison and @Brisketexan, and they were out. Out of Chili.

At the Texas Chili Parlor. 

"We're out of chili" is the new "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."

[Pescado_Rojo 19416]

12 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

SCROTUM!!!!

Yeah. Story has been told before but  a few years ago I went to lunch there  with @Pescado_Rojo @Kyrie Eleison and @Brisketexan, and they were out. Out of Chili.

At the Texas Chili Parlor. 

I'll never forget our collective stunned silence. It was like the 4 of us looking at the waitress like this...

[Nice Guy Eddie 13510]

how are the plaintiffs proving the pain caused by Jones?  I saw that the parents testified but as a jury member I would still need to know more to put a dollar amount on it. I believe sandy hook parents are constantly harassed by Alex Jones listeners. Are they presenting evidence to that fact?  I assume Jones himself has never harassed them in-person, outside of this trial. I could be wrong.

Are the plaintiffs trying is show how much money Jones made and how much could be attributable  to his sandy hook rants?  If he mentioned sandy hook in 50% of his shows, then as a juror I could get behind taking 50% of his revenue, as a start.

[Sawbonz 27547]

9 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

how are the plaintiffs proving the pain caused by Jones?  I saw that the parents testified but as a jury member I would still need to know more to put a dollar amount on it. I believe sandy hook parents are constantly harassed by Alex Jones listeners. Are they presenting evidence to that fact?  I assume Jones himself has never harassed them in-person, outside of this trial. I could be wrong.

Are the plaintiffs trying is show how much money Jones made and how much could be attributable  to his sandy hook rants?  If he mentioned sandy hook in 50% of his shows, then as a juror I could get behind taking 50% of his revenue, as a start.

Not a lawyer obviously but I think this is going to be more about assigning a dollar amount that is likely to curb this type of behavior in the future, not loss of income and cost of treatment for the victims of his lies. In the case of Jones, it basically has to be a high enough number to cripple him financially

[Pig Bellmont 8712]

10 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

The loons are out in force in the comments to Berenson 

I’ve seen a civil defendant get thrown in jail overnight during testimony for contempt (he was caught lying and was belligerent).  I’ve always thought that had to be the lowest moment of his attorney’s career. How was your client jailed in a civil case?!

[Blotto 23497]

23 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Not a lawyer obviously but I think this is going to be more about assigning a dollar amount that is likely to curb this type of behavior in the future, not loss of income and cost of treatment for the victims of his lies. In the case of Jones, it basically has to be a high enough number to cripple him financially

Dipshits like Alex Jones aren't going to stop being dipshits. Look at every fucking moron in Trump's wake. Isn't it likely that Jones will just appeal whatever verdict is delivered by the jury, dragging this shit out for a couple more years? 

[TwiceHorn 31450]

22 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Not a lawyer obviously but I think this is going to be more about assigning a dollar amount that is likely to curb this type of behavior in the future, not loss of income and cost of treatment for the victims of his lies. In the case of Jones, it basically has to be a high enough number to cripple him financially

Well, before there are punitive damages, which is what you refer to here, there must be compensatory damages to compensate for the actual harm sustained.  And, there are constitutional limitations on how much the punitive damages may exceed the compensatory.

So, the jury could theoretically award $1 in compensatory damages, acknowledging that there was liability and unquantifiable harm, and then aware $150M in punitive damages.  But, in all likelihood, that award would be reversed as the punitives are so disproportionate to the compensatory damages.

NPR has had a show about the harassment and measures that some of the victims have had to undergo to maintain their privacy, not necessarily the plaintiffs here.  I'm pretty sure they can cobble up several hundred thousand of pecuniary losses.

[RomaVicta 29905]

I think the lawyers on here said there were two parts to the process: damages and punitive awards.

In the famed McDonald's coffee scorching case that outraged right wing talk radio for how big it was, the more than a hundred million was derived by calculating McD's profits off of coffee for two days.

The radio gods kept dismissing it as of course coffee is hot without bothering to learn that McDonalds had been warned about the dangerous temp at which they kept coffee more than once and the woman who was burned required hospitaization and skin grafts.

Lawyers, unions, newspapers, and Congress are all bad things that the little guy should hate as much as the queens and the coons and the reds and the Jews.*

 

*     

Edited August 4, 2022 by RomaVicta
Too slow

[TwiceHorn 31450]

Just now, RomaVicta said:

I think the lawyers on here said there were two parts to the process: damages and punitive awards.

In the famed McDonald's coffee scorching case that outraged right wing talk radio for how big it was, the more than a hundred million was derived by calculating McD's profits off of coffee for two days.

The radio gods kept dismissing it as of course coffee is hot without bothering to learn that McDonalds had been warned about the dangerous temp at which they kept coffee more than once and the woman who was burned required hospitaization and skin grafts.

Lawyers, unions, newspapers, and Congress are all bad things that the little guy should hate as much as the queens and the coons and the reds and the Jews.*

 

*     

For the record.  Stella Liebeck was awarded $200k in actual, compensatory damages, reduced by 20 percent for her own contributory negligence, so $160k.  The jury awarded $2.7M in punitives, based on McD's sales of coffee, about two day's worth, nationwide.

Because the punitive damages, although having a rational basis, so grossly exceeded the compensatory damages, the trial judge reduced it to $480k, or 3x the compensatory award.  In lieu of appeals, the case was settled confidentially for a reported $500k.

In some statutory schemes, like patent infringement and antitrust, for example, a type of punitive damages, for willful or malicious conduct, are provided in the form of "treble damages," meaning 3x the damages compensating the injury.  So that's where that comes from.

[Sawbonz 27547]

8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, before there are punitive damages, which is what you refer to here, there must be compensatory damages to compensate for the actual harm sustained. 

Does that mean a whole separate shit show in the courtroom for punitive damages?

[TwiceHorn 31450]

Just now, Sawbonz said:

Does that mean a whole separate shit show in the courtroom for punitive damages?

In this case, yes, I believe so.  Usually, cases are bifurcated, or split into two phases, to consider liability before considering damages.  That rather famously occurred in the Woburn water contamination case that is the subject of A Civil Action.  Part of the idea there, is that the jury shouldn't be inflamed by the injuries when the fact of liability or causation is hotly disputed.

 

[RomaVicta 29905]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

For the record.  Stella Liebeck was awarded $200k in actual, compensatory damages, reduced by 20 percent for her own contributory negligence, so $160k.  The jury awarded $2.7M in punitives, based on McD's sales of coffee, about two day's worth, nationwide.

Because the punitive damages, although having a rational basis, so grossly exceeded the compensatory damages, the trial judge reduced it to $480k, or 3x the compensatory award.  In lieu of appeals, the case was settled confidentially for a reported $500k.

In some statutory schemes, like patent infringement and antitrust, for example, a type of punitive damages, for willful or malicious conduct, are provided in the form of "treble damages," meaning 3x the damages compensating the injury.  So that's where that comes from.

Thanks.

The outrage at the time would have been little mitigated by the lesser amount. I think this incident made me aware of how much outright lying was going on on rightwing radio. I really hadn't been paying much attention. Being willfully obtuse and dishonest was sort of shocking to me back in those sweet days.

[TwiceHorn 31450]

6 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Thanks.

The outrage at the time would have been little mitigated by the lesser amount. I think this incident made me aware of how much outright lying was going on on rightwing radio. I really hadn't been paying much attention. Being willfully obtuse and dishonest was sort of shocking to me back in those sweet days.

Exactly.  The tort reform lobby has very effectively created a belief that juries and the court system are out of control that is largely unfounded.  It is subscribed to by folks all over the political spectrum.

I am somewhat flabbergasted that injury lawyers, whose business is persuasion, and who are pretty well organized nationally, and with political connections, have permitted this to happen virtually unchallenged.

And, the "tort reform" turds, who object to "regulation by lawsuit" also object to any other kind of regulation of business.  Regulation by lawsuit is a sort of haphazard business, for sure, but the alternative is statutory regulation.  Without either, we've basically got Thunderdome.

They want to do unto others, and then split.

Edited August 4, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[TexArcher 37774]

I wish it were possible to build a gallows sturdy enough to hang Alex Jones and Donald Trump next to each other simultaneously.

[chainsaw 9865]

2 hours ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I'll never forget our collective stunned silence. It was like the 4 of us looking at the waitress like this...

Hey it's still a Texas Parlor which is pretty cool. And beer.

[Native Horn 3500]

12 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

I wish it were possible to build a gallows sturdy enough to hang Alex Jones and Donald Trump next to each other simultaneously.

no aggy engineers allowed

[Dahobbs 17534]

30 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

In this case, yes, I believe so.  Usually, cases are bifurcated, or split into two phases, to consider liability before considering damages.  That rather famously occurred in the Woburn water contamination case that is the subject of A Civil Action.  Part of the idea there, is that the jury shouldn't be inflamed by the injuries when the fact of liability or causation is hotly disputed.

 

Usually is a strong word. I don't know that I've ever seen compensatory damages and liability separated before. But some jurisdictions do bifurcate punitive damages, but it is far from automatic. 

29 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Thanks.

The outrage at the time would have been little mitigated by the lesser amount. I think this incident made me aware of how much outright lying was going on on rightwing radio. I really hadn't been paying much attention. Being willfully obtuse and dishonest was sort of shocking to me back in those sweet days.

The outrage should have been how little she was awarded in compensatory damages. Those injuries were extreme. Her compensatory award should have 10x higher. 

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

how are the plaintiffs proving the pain caused by Jones?  I saw that the parents testified but as a jury member I would still need to know more to put a dollar amount on it. I believe sandy hook parents are constantly harassed by Alex Jones listeners. Are they presenting evidence to that fact?  I assume Jones himself has never harassed them in-person, outside of this trial. I could be wrong.

Are the plaintiffs trying is show how much money Jones made and how much could be attributable  to his sandy hook rants?  If he mentioned sandy hook in 50% of his shows, then as a juror I could get behind taking 50% of his revenue, as a start.

If you're asking how the plaintiffs are connecting their emotional injuries directly to Jones, I assume by the fact that he created and amplified the message that their children weren't real. That seems legally and factually sufficient to me. If you're asking how the plaintiffs are converting their pain and suffering into a dollar value, that's ultimately something for the jury to decide based on the facts of the case and their own personal experiences. There is no specific methodology to converting pain to dollars. Our court system just asks the jury to figure it out. If you can't do that, then you shouldn't be on a jury. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Dahobbs

[chainsaw 9865]

Shouldn't Jones have fought against the liability instead of forfeiting, if he wanted to argue that the victims weren't actually hurt by him? Isn't all that conceded at this point?

[TwiceHorn 31450]

6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Usually is a strong word. I don't know that I've ever seen compensatory damages and liability separated before. But some jurisdictions do bifurcate punitive damages, but it is far from automatic. 

The outrage should have been how little she was awarded in compensatory damages. Those injuries were extreme. Her compensatory award should have 10x higher. 

If you're asking how the plaintiffs are connecting their emotional injuries directly to Jones, I assume by the fact that he created and amplified the message that their children weren't real. That seems legally and factually sufficient to me. If you're asking how the plaintiffs are converting their pain and suffering into a dollar value, that's ultimately something for the jury to decide based on the facts of the case and their own personal experiences. There is no specific methodology to converting pain to dollars. Our court system just asks the jury to figure it out. If you can't do that, then you shouldn't be on a jury. 

I meant when cases are bifurcated, it's usually between liability and damages, not that bifurcation is usual. Agree that it is not. 

I'm not even sure what the reasoning for bifurcation of the damages phase was. 

[TwiceHorn 31450]

4 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Shouldn't Jones have fought against the liability instead of forfeiting, if he wanted to argue that the victims weren't actually hurt by him? Isn't all that conceded at this point?

Of course. 

 

But the fact of and degree of harm is at least theoretically separable from liability. In practice, though, arguing that the action was harmless looks a lot like it didn't even happen in the liability sense. 

[South Austin 52463]

7 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Shouldn't Jones have fought against the liability instead of forfeiting, if he wanted to argue that the victims weren't actually hurt by him? Isn't all that conceded at this point?

Yes, he should have fought against liability, instead of having liability decided against him by default after he fucked with the judge through repeated discovery abuse.  His number one argument on appeal will be that death penalty sanction, and I'm sure that will result in an important appellate opinion on that issue one way or the other.

[chainsaw 9865]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Of course. 

 

But the fact of and degree of harm is at least theoretically separable from liability. In practice, though, arguing that the action was harmless looks a lot like it didn't even happen in the liability sense. 

I think I heard them argue that the damages are $8. I'm curious how they get to that number, but not $9.

[Mittens 8263]

[South Austin 52463]

7 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I think I heard them argue that the damages are $8. I'm curious how they get to that number, but not $9.

I missed that.  Did Reynal have a good Johnny Cochran-type hook for that, like "Eight Is Enough"?

[Mittens 8263]

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Mittens

[Hookah Horns 3083]

Wait, even Reynal didn't know they'd sent the records to the other side? Wow.

[chainsaw 9865]

11 minutes ago, South Austin said:

I missed that.  Did Reynal have a good Johnny Cochran-type hook for that, like "Eight Is Enough"?

I wasn't paying close attention but the final closing argument from SH lawyers said Jones's lawyer said it, so I assume that's what they argued.

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

 

 

 

[South Austin 52463]

14 minutes ago, Mittens said:

 

 

[lemonlime 5503]

33 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I meant when cases are bifurcated, it's usually between liability and damages, not that bifurcation is usual. Agree that it is not. 

I'm not even sure what the reasoning for bifurcation of the damages phase was. 

I thought punitive damages were usually bifurcated from the rest of the trial, though, regardless of whether there is bifurcation between liability and damages.  At least in the jurisdiction I practice in, the amount of punitive damages is always bifurcated from everything else, because testimony on the defendants' net worth, earnings, etc. needed to determine how to punish the defendants is irrelevant to the action itself and would be inflammatory to the jury.

[Chopper 17230]

Alex Jones’ cellphone records include ‘intimate messages with Roger Stone,’ Sandy Hook attorney says

AUSTIN, TEXAS — The attorney for a Sandy Hook family says the U.S. House Jan. 6 committee has requested a copy of Alex Jones’ cellphone records that the Infowars owner’s lawyer mistakenly gave to the attorney.

Attorney Mark Bankston told a Texas judge during a hearing on Thursday morning that the records include “intimate messages with Roger Stone,” an ally of former President Donald Trump who was subpoeaned by the House committee alongside Jones last year.

https://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Alex-Jones-cellphone-records-include-17351313.php

[Dahobbs 17534]

3 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

I thought punitive damages were usually bifurcated from the rest of the trial, though, regardless of whether there is bifurcation between liability and damages.  At least in the jurisdiction I practice in, the amount of punitive damages is always bifurcated from everything else, because testimony on the defendants' net worth, earnings, etc. needed to determine how to punish the defendants is irrelevant to the action itself and would be inflammatory to the jury.

Some jurisdictions do that. Not all of them though.

As to the cell phone issue here, I'm a bit confused and too lazy to look it up. Why exactly were the cell phone records not produced in the first instance? What is the argument for them being somehow protected from discovery? It seems to me that Jones' attorney should be focused on avoiding sanctions for not releasing them, not complaining that their release has prejudiced his client and deserves a mistrial. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21186]

3 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Alex Jones’ cellphone records include ‘intimate messages with Roger Stone,’ Sandy Hook attorney says

AUSTIN, TEXAS — The attorney for a Sandy Hook family says the U.S. House Jan. 6 committee has requested a copy of Alex Jones’ cellphone records that the Infowars owner’s lawyer mistakenly gave to the attorney.

Attorney Mark Bankston told a Texas judge during a hearing on Thursday morning that the records include “intimate messages with Roger Stone,” an ally of former President Donald Trump who was subpoeaned by the House committee alongside Jones last year.

https://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Alex-Jones-cellphone-records-include-17351313.php

the definition of nightmare fuel

[lemonlime 5503]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Some jurisdictions do that. Not all of them though.

As to the cell phone issue here, I'm a bit confused and too lazy to look it up. Why exactly were the cell phone records not produced in the first instance? What is the argument for them being somehow protected from discovery? It seems to me that Jones' attorney should be focused on avoiding sanctions for not releasing them, not complaining that their release has prejudiced his client and deserves a mistrial. 

Thanks.  To my understanding the cell phone issue is both.  The attorney should have released them in discovery, but I'm unsure of which attorney in Jones' string of attorneys would have been responsible for that and also once the death penalty was already given due to the failure to turn over discovery, whether a subsequent attorney would still have an obligation to turn over the delinquent discovery.  But the cell phone also contained privileged information, and it was turned over in its entirety, without an assertion of privilege or a privilege log, and even after being advised that the privileged information was sent to plaintiffs, Reynal never asked for it back or asserted privilege over that information..

[Longhorn_Fan68 33869]

10 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Alex Jones’ cellphone records include ‘intimate messages with Roger Stone,’ Sandy Hook attorney says

AUSTIN, TEXAS — The attorney for a Sandy Hook family says the U.S. House Jan. 6 committee has requested a copy of Alex Jones’ cellphone records that the Infowars owner’s lawyer mistakenly gave to the attorney.

Attorney Mark Bankston told a Texas judge during a hearing on Thursday morning that the records include “intimate messages with Roger Stone,” an ally of former President Donald Trump who was subpoeaned by the House committee alongside Jones last year.

https://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Alex-Jones-cellphone-records-include-17351313.php

[Beau Vine 54211]

9 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Alex Jones’ cellphone records include ‘intimate messages with Roger Stone,’ Sandy Hook attorney says

AUSTIN, TEXAS — The attorney for a Sandy Hook family says the U.S. House Jan. 6 committee has requested a copy of Alex Jones’ cellphone records that the Infowars owner’s lawyer mistakenly gave to the attorney.

Attorney Mark Bankston told a Texas judge during a hearing on Thursday morning that the records include “intimate messages with Roger Stone,” an ally of former President Donald Trump who was subpoeaned by the House committee alongside Jones last year.

https://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Alex-Jones-cellphone-records-include-17351313.php