Alex Jones

[dcbc 14235]

On 4/9/2024 at 10:20 AM, Captainant said:

Hope in one hand and shit in the other and lemme know which one fills up first. Jones has been shitting all over everything for years and seems to be much more effective than everyone hoping that he will grow a conscious and stop being a scumbag. 

 

On 4/9/2024 at 10:49 AM, dcbc said:

I'm not a bankruptcy specialist (although I am married to one).  I also can't predict the future.  I'll hang onto the hope, and as you suggest, I'll let you know.  But you're not wrong about his past and your assessment of him as a person.

 

The fact remains that he needs a Chapter 11 plan to be approved.  If he can't get the plan confirmed, the options are either that the bankruptcy is dismissed or converted to a Chapter 7 liquidation (if I understand the basics correctly).  My impression of bankruptcy judges, particularly from what I've heard about the Southern District, is that their tolerance for bullshit isn't terribly high.  That said, 11s are complicated and I realize they don't move swiftly enough for Surly justice.

And here we are.  Maybe I can predict the future.

Edited June 9 by dcbc

[Satchel 6901]

Right-wing media reckoning:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/wing-media-reckoning-outlets-pay-130040167.html

Right-wing media that became purveyors of misinformation and amplified false claims as Donald Trump undermined the results of the 2020 election are finding themselves on the losing end of legal challenges — or facing new ones.

In just a few months, a handful of high-profile fringe media operations have been hit with courtroom losses.

The Gateway Pundit, an influential far-right news site, filed for bankruptcy in April in the wake of defamation lawsuits that said the company suggested election workers committed fraud during the previous presidential election. That same month, voting machine company Smartmatic reached a confidential settlement in its defamation suit against One America News Network, which allowed false election fraud claims on air, while its pending defamation litigation based on similar vote-rigging allegations continues against Newsmax as well as Fox News, which is being sued for $2.7 billion. Both Newsmax and Fox News deny Smartmatic’s allegations.

 

Fox News last year paid another company, Dominion Voting Systems, $787.5 million to settle a defamation lawsuit. The network did not admit to any specific claims.

In May, “2000 Mules,” a book and film by right-wing political commentator Dinesh D’Souza, was pulled by the publisher, Salem Media Group, and the company issued a public apology to a Georgia man who is suing the author and publisher on defamation claims after he was accused of ballot stuffing. That case is still ongoing.

Other conservative media outlets that had promoted right-wing misinformation in the 2020 election are facing financial troubles unrelated to those events. This week, conspiracy theorist and Infowars host Alex Jones agreed to sell off his assets to satisfy $1.5 billion in defamation judgmentsrelated to the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre. Jones earlier warned his company could shut down.

[Neonmoon 38126]

Let me know when one of them stops lying 

[Biff Tannen 45013]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Let me know when one of them stops lying 

Or when the people they have conned change their opinion on the lies they have been fed. The damage is done. 

[jw4381 3044]

[TwiceHorn 30834]

So, I am seeing that the plaintiffs are looking forward to acquiring/shutting down Jones' social media.

I have little doubt that the Chapter 7 Trustee will seek to monetize all of his social media for the bankruptcy estate.  Someone else is going to own that shit.

However, I'm not sure that's going to result in a big payoff or the shutdown of his platforms.  His existing platforms, yes; future platforms, no.  See, e.g. Kevin and shaggybevo.com.

[TexasEd 8014]

On 6/7/2024 at 7:16 PM, Captainant said:

I don't think the families want money from Jones. They want to see him suffer and lose things that he wants to have

 

On 6/8/2024 at 5:06 PM, Fudge Nuggets said:

Second.  The odds of getting any kind of substantial sum from fuckhead Al were always going to be small.  Go for spite and revenge instead.  See him crushed before your very eyes.  Lob cans of soup at him in his cardboard box under a highway overpass.  Humiliate the fuck out of him on a constant basis.

This would be what I want.  Money don't mean shit, pure hatred and vile for his corrupt soul would keep me warm.

I think it might be a little more pragmatic than that. 

I think they want to take away his ability to do it to other people.  It might look vindictive, but he lacks remorse and taking away InfoWars and any capital he could use to rebuild another media company goes a long way to keep him from doing this again.

[Captainant 26902]

8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

However, I'm not sure that's going to result in a big payoff or the shutdown of his platforms.  His existing platforms, yes; future platforms, no.  See, e.g. Kevin and shaggybevo.com.

 

1 minute ago, TexasEd said:

 

I think it might be a little more pragmatic than that. 

I think they want to take away his ability to do it to other people.  It might look vindictive, but he lacks remorse and taking away InfoWars and any capital he could use to rebuild another media company goes a long way to keep him from doing this again.

Listening to the recent episodes of knowledge fight, he's already got an escape hatch set up via his dad's supplement company that's selling all the exact same products that Infowars did. Jones has been drunk on air (joined by luminaries such as flynn and bannon and posobiec roaring through) bitching about his CRO and how he's gonna jump ship and rebuild using another of his available recording studios.

The interesting thing will be to see how much the bankruptcy takes from jones. If they can get all his studios and remove the veneer of legitimacy it gives his rants, that'll go a long way to shutting him down

[RomaVicta 29500]

He should have been hosed with .50 cal with the rest of them. Never forget.

[Biff Tannen 45013]

2 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

He should have been hosed with .50 cal with the rest of them. Never forget.

Is that real?  I don't recall that he was at J6.  I don't think he's a true believer, but I could be wrong.

[wildcat09 28485]

6 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Is that real?  I don't recall that he was at J6.  I don't think he's a true believer, but I could be wrong.

Yes, he was there with a bullhorn directing the crowd. 

[atomheartbevo 88913]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, I am seeing that the plaintiffs are looking forward to acquiring/shutting down Jones' social media.

I have little doubt that the Chapter 7 Trustee will seek to monetize all of his social media for the bankruptcy estate.  Someone else is going to own that shit.

However, I'm not sure that's going to result in a big payoff or the shutdown of his platforms.  His existing platforms, yes; future platforms, no.  See, e.g. Kevin and shaggybevo.com.

5 hours ago, Captainant said:

Listening to the recent episodes of knowledge fight, he's already got an escape hatch set up via his dad's supplement company that's selling all the exact same products that Infowars did. Jones has been drunk on air (joined by luminaries such as flynn and bannon and posobiec roaring through) bitching about his CRO and how he's gonna jump ship and rebuild using another of his available recording studios.

The interesting thing will be to see how much the bankruptcy takes from jones. If they can get all his studios and remove the veneer of legitimacy it gives his rants, that'll go a long way to shutting him down

If they take away InfoWars and PrisonPlanet and are given the sites and their content, they can redirect the sites to say a memorial about the kids or an anti-school shooting site or whatever, and they can also file copyright lawsuits against anybody trying to utilize the old content.  

It will put a crimp in his empire, but he’s clearly spent years planning for the possibility he loses his main sites.

[locodos 5230]

5 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Yes, he was there with a bullhorn directing the crowd. 

to buy his supplements?

I can't imagine he'd have any real tacticool acumen.

[Red Five 40274]

Yes, he was there with a bullhorn directing the crowd. 

Not really sure why he thought Antifa would listen to Alex Jones of all people.

[Felix 606]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but whatever the plaintiffs get out of this would only count towards the full judgment right?  The bankruptcy doesn't discharge the judgement right? So if he started a new grift, couldn't they just keep taking his money?

[elfenix 34075]

22 minutes ago, Felix said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but whatever the plaintiffs get out of this would only count towards the full judgment right?  The bankruptcy doesn't discharge the judgement right? So if he started a new grift, couldn't they just keep taking his money?

The bankruptcy discharges the judgment as a debt. Anything he earns after the filing date and time is free and clear.

Edited June 14 by elfenix

[Felix 606]

Just now, elfenix said:

The bankruptcy discharges the judgment as a debt. Anything he earns after the filing time is free and clear.

Thanks.  That sucks, but I suppose it makes sense.

[Captainant 26902]

15 minutes ago, elfenix said:

The bankruptcy discharges the judgment as a debt. Anything he earns after the filing date and time is free and clear.

But @dcbchad assured me that Jones won't just get away with it again

[elfenix 34075]

1 hour ago, Felix said:

Thanks.  That sucks, but I suppose it makes sense.

That's the general rule. What he did to the plaintiffs might fall under exception 6 for willful and malicious injury. Usually the only exceptions I ran into were recent taxes and divorce related debts.

Edited June 14 by elfenix

['stache 21520]

Wasn't Rudy denied a bankruptcy discharge? This one seems even more egregious.

[WhatTheBuck 28604]

7 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

future platforms, no.  See, e.g. Kevin and shaggybevo.com.

How are those remotely analogous?

[WhatTheBuck 28604]

1 hour ago, elfenix said:

The bankruptcy discharges the judgment as a debt. Anything he earns after the filing date and time is free and clear.

What if the Sandy Hook families sue him again?

[elfenix 34075]

22 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

What if the Sandy Hook families sue him again?

They couldn’t do that unless Alex shot his mouth off again, kinda like what Trump did with E. Jean Carroll. For judicial economy there’s rules about bringing all related claims together, for example if you breached your contract with me I’d have to bring any claims related to that in the same suit and any I didn’t I would be estopped from asserting later (and you would need to bring any related counterclaims as well). If I also had a claim against you for a car wreck I wouldn’t have to bring those with the contract case, though.

Edited June 14 by elfenix

[WhatTheBuck 28604]

5 minutes ago, elfenix said:

They couldn’t do that unless Alex shot his mouth off again, kinda like what Trump did with E. Jean Carroll. For judicial economy there’s rules about bringing all related claims together, for example if you breached your contract with me I’d have to bring any claims related to that in the same suit and any I didn’t I would be estopped from asserting later (and you would need to bring any related counterclaims as well). If I also had a claim against you for a car wreck I wouldn’t have to bring those with the contract case, though.

This morning on CBS I saw this commentary (cued up the the relevant passage):

I’m not sure what to make of it other than it sounds like the families could keep going after him. And given how utterly scurrilous his behavior has been it’s hard to imagine any jury defending him. Am I misreading the comments by CBS’ legal analyst here? I don’t know. 

[mdmost 42316]

So he gets to keep Infowars?

https://apnews.com/article/alex-jones-sandy-hook-lawsuit-3ccd113496caee18a085dfa54c6e6c0e

[Willfully Horn 7854]

His social media sites will be put under control of some sort of supervisor, who will then offer an opinion about their future. His debt will not be be discharged, because, as @elfenix noted:

“The judge overseeing Jones' bankruptcy has ruled that most of the debt will survive after a liquidation, because it resulted from "willful and malicious" conduct.”

 

https://www.reuters.com/legal/alex-jones-bankruptcy-liquidation-approved-court-2024-06-14/

Edited June 14 by Willfully Horn

[dcbc 14235]

2 hours ago, Captainant said:

But @dcbchad assured me that Jones won't just get away with it again

No, I assured you that "if he can't get the plan confirmed, the options are either that the bankruptcy is dismissed or converted to a Chapter 7 liquidation[.]"  The latter of these two possibilities is exactly what happened.  It was a statement of two paths in the legal system.  Again, I can't predict the future apart from commenting, as the Zen Master oft repeated, "We'll see."

 

Believe me, I'll curl up in a ball and start wringing my hands along with you when the time is right.  But, as of now, the proverbial fat lady has not sung.

Edited June 14 by dcbc
fixing site-generated italics and bad punctuation on my part

[BrickHorn 18028]

3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

If they take away InfoWars and PrisonPlanet and are given the sites and their content, they can redirect the sites to say a memorial about the kids or an anti-school shooting site or whatever, and they can also file copyright lawsuits against anybody trying to utilize the old content.

Yep. And all those fuckwits who slapped InfoWars stickers on random surfaces in public spaces are gonna find themselves accidentally spreading the truth for once. Take that, assholes!

[TwiceHorn 30834]

2 hours ago, elfenix said:

That's the general rule. What he did to the plaintiffs might fall under exception 6 for willful and malicious injury. Usually the only exceptions I ran into were recent taxes and divorce related debts.

Already been decided that that lawsuit debts are excepted from discharge.

[TwiceHorn 30834]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

How are those remotely analogous?

Because fuckwit can, in all likelihood, start up new xtwatterinstaturd and his followers will follow.

[HenryJames 65251]

[Sawbonz 26808]

54 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Because fuckwit can, in all likelihood, start up new xtwatterinstaturd and his followers will follow.

But if the damages are not dischargeable then all his profits should go to the families correct?

[High Plains Drifter 10930]

On 6/9/2024 at 5:35 AM, Neonmoon said:

Let me know when one of them stops lying gets beaten with motorcycle chains. 

 

fixy for me

 

[jimmyjazz 45162]

Does that guy have a navel or an intermediate asshole?

[TwiceHorn 30834]

49 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

But if the damages are not dischargeable then all his profits should go to the families correct?

Well, kind of the premise of it is they'd like to deplatform him more than collect damages.  But I think the latter is all they've really got.  Yes, any profits should be collectable.

[atomheartbevo 88913]

10 hours ago, 'stache said:

Wasn't Rudy denied a bankruptcy discharge? 

It was more of a dribble than a discharge.

[brakeman 28061]

[TwiceHorn 30834]

One oddball thing, the Connecticut families/plaintiffs wanted the FSS bankruptcy converted to a Chapter 7, like Jones', while the Texas families/plaintiffs wanted it just dismissed outright.

If converted, the liquidation of FSS would be supervised by a Trustee and the bankruptcy court and might seem to offer some advantages in collecting preferential and fraudulent transfers from the company, as well as lien avoidance (remember the vitamin outfit claims a 68M secured debt).

If it's dismissed, the plaintiffs are still free to pursue their state court remedies against Jones, but it seems like the CT families have or had a point that it might be easier in the context of a 7 than a state-court free-for-all between the competing sets of plaintiffs.

Would be interesting to know the thinking there. @Chad Fuck

Edited June 16 by TwiceHorn

[Gatorubet 29538]

On 6/14/2024 at 3:46 PM, Captainant said:

But @dcbchad assured me that Jones won't just get away with it again

You are a manufacturer of ultra exclusive Swiss chronometers, aren’t you?

Nobody else could be that dependable. 

[Gatorubet 29538]

On 6/14/2024 at 5:43 PM, Willfully Horn said:

His social media sites will be put under control of some sort of supervisor, who will then offer an opinion about their future. His debt will not be be discharged, because, as @elfenix noted:

“The judge overseeing Jones' bankruptcy has ruled that most of the debt will survive after a liquidation, because it resulted from "willful and malicious" conduct.”

 

https://www.reuters.com/legal/alex-jones-bankruptcy-liquidation-approved-court-2024-06-14/

Quote

The split ruling will mean further litigation between Jones, his company, and the Sandy Hook families, including battles over $6 million in cash held by Free Speech Systems. The families also will continue trying to collect money that Jones kept from them by sending it to his wife and father and close associates.

I have to admit, the fact that his wife and father and close associates (and him) will continue to be dogged with litigation - requiring them to pay millions in attorneys fees while plaintiffs give their financial records a deep colonoscopy is not altogether a bad thing.   Now his family and friends can join him in the find out part after they fucked around.    People who are not familiar with litigation do not have an appreciation about how truly upsetting and emotionally draining litigation can be.  I want those assholes to experience just a tiny taste of the emotional turmoil Jones put those families through.

 

 

[Hornius Emeritus 12332]

On 6/14/2024 at 2:25 PM, atomheartbevo said:

If they take away InfoWars and PrisonPlanet and are given the sites and their content, they can redirect the sites to say a memorial about the kids or an anti-school shooting site or whatever, and they can also file copyright lawsuits against anybody trying to utilize the old content.  

It will put a crimp in his empire, but he’s clearly spent years planning for the possibility he loses his main sites.

Texas Monthly has a good article re: who might buy Infowars.   At the end they speculate that an Infowars hater might buy it and using the strength of its brand name, turn it into a disinformation clearinghouse.  That be be a hugely unlikely end to the saga.

[4th&Five 41111]

 

[tx 3 putt 75228]

[Captainant 26902]

22 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

I'm curious to see how the courts handle his attempt to shift his clientele to his dad's company that sells all the exact same stuff as Infowars, Jones has been actively directing people to not buy from Infowars and instead go there to ensure that Jones gets the money. Seems like something a court could take a look at?

[dcbc 14235]

Does Surly have enough in the banner fund to buy infowars?

[dcbc 14235]

14 hours ago, Captainant said:

I'm curious to see how the courts handle his attempt to shift his clientele to his dad's company that sells all the exact same stuff as Infowars, Jones has been actively directing people to not buy from Infowars and instead go there to ensure that Jones gets the money. Seems like something a court could take a look at?

As I mentioned before, the bankruptcy division for the Southern District has an extremely low tolerance for bullshit.  If there are fraudulent transfers, they will go after them.

[TwiceHorn 30834]

5 minutes ago, dcbc said:

As I mentioned before, the bankruptcy division for the Southern District has an extremely low tolerance for bullshit.  If there are fraudulent transfers, they will go after them.

It is an interesting question, though.  It's like a prospective fraudulent transfer.  It's kind of a variant of the Kevin/shaggybevo question.  

Edited June 25 by TwiceHorn

[dcbc 14235]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

It is an interesting question, though.  It's like a prospective fraudulent transfer.  It's kind of a variant of the Kevin/shaggybevo question.  

Right.  "Go buy things from this website instead to support me."  But he's got to get the money somehow.  Cash?  Any bank account he has access to that hasn't been disclosed is going to get him another round with the long dick of the law.

 

It's hard to publicize siphoning money subtly.  Too subtle and your minions don't get the message.  Get the message out there and the B/R Court catches wind.  Poor Alex

Edited June 25 by dcbc

[TwiceHorn 30834]

29 minutes ago, dcbc said:

Right.  "Go buy things from this website instead to support me."  But he's got to get the money somehow.  Cash?  Any bank account he has access to that hasn't been disclosed is going to get him another round with the long dick of the law.

 

It's hard to publicize siphoning money subtly.  Too subtle and your minions don't get the message.  Get the message out there and the B/R Court catches wind.  Poor Alex

Well because FSS/infowars is liquidated or will be, it's not like there's an ongoing revenue stream. It's expected that those customers will have to find another source of bullshit. 

Not sure it can be regarded as unlawful to steer those customers to a new business. The question is what happens to the revenue? If it is coming to Jones it's fair game for collection and that would be outside of bankruptcy because his has been dismissed. 

In a Chapter 7, the trustee and court are mostly unconcerned with events occurring after the petition date. 

[dcbc 14235]

17 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well because FSS/infowars is liquidated or will be, it's not like there's an ongoing revenue stream. It's expected that those customers will have to find another source of bullshit. 

Not sure it can be regarded as unlawful to steer those customers to a new business. The question is what happens to the revenue? If it is coming to Jones it's fair game for collection and that would be outside of bankruptcy because his has been dismissed. 

In a Chapter 7, the trustee and court are mostly unconcerned with events occurring after the petition date. 

Right.  Unless it's somehow inextricably intertwined with infowars, it's a separate action.  I get the feeling that the plaintiffs and their lawyers will be all too happy to continue pursuit.  I get the feeling that the plaintiffs do not wholly equate justice with dollars but rather with making Jones pay.