Bad boat fire off of LA

[TwiceHorn 31,511]

1 hour ago, ERhine said:

The insurance company is who is behind the limitation action.  

Right, to provide the value of the vessel after the loss (didn't remember that little nugget from my brief and shallow exposure to admiralty law).  But if the action is successful, there's no coverage beyond the value of the vessel?  No such thing as "excess" or umbrella or something like that?

I suppose in other cases, where the vessel isn't a total loss, the insurance company has significant exposure.  But it would seem in this one they have very little.  

For those in the peanut gallery, when a tort occurs on the ocean or any inland waterway affected by tides, federal admiralty law applies and, if the owner isn't complicit with the negligence causing the injury or loss, the liability for the loss is limited to the value of the vessel after the loss if the owner files a limitation action within six months of the loss.

[TwiceHorn 31,511]

10 hours ago, justhookit said:

Yes. At least here though you would be talking about 20-30 people on overnight trips. It’s not insane. This particular incident was, though, if the facts are right.

I’m not sure what to tell the people that are doubting that this situation is common. You’re 3 or 4 other crew members besides the 2nd captain are typically min. wage dudes looking to move up in the fishing or boating world. They are there to collect a pay check, get sea hours, and hopefully they aren’t drunk or high before or during the trip.

It just seems like a lot of people for a boat that size and configuration.  And that's considering having them all on deck at once on that little aft portion, let alone sleeping in that compartment like a bunch of sardines.

[smuggs 9,353]

1 minute ago, El Diablo said:

I think that there's a Coast Guard reg requiring a watch already. People drink and drive, there's laws against that already. I'm not sure what you want to regulate.

Not allowing tour operators to stack-sleep ~40 people in roughly 900 sq/f of below deck cabin space in an 80' boat is a start. Or a max occupancy regulation that is not only tied to the weight restrictions of the vessel (which I believe is the case now but not positive) but also to an amount of clear space required per individual to allow for free and safe movement about the vessel, particularly in an emergency.

 

[El Diablo 4,232]

37 minutes ago, smuggs said:

Not allowing tour operators to stack-sleep ~40 people in roughly 900 sq/f of below deck cabin space in an 80' boat is a start. Or a max occupancy regulation that is not only tied to the weight restrictions of the vessel (which I believe is the case now but not positive) but also to an amount of clear space required per individual to allow for free and safe movement about the vessel, particularly in an emergency.

 

Thanks for clarifying. Those sound like reasonable suggestions but I'm not sure that a one-off incident like this should require sweeping changes to an industry that for the most part, to my knowledge, has been free of accidents of this magnitude. 

Fire prevention and better crew training for emergencies would be preferable in my opinion. The military does what they do out of necessity but try to mitigate disasters with preparation. Maybe some combination of the two approaches could be applied.

[Brisketexan 105,165]

18 hours ago, justhookit said:

It’s common. There are boats that size everywhere doing 1, 2, even 3 nights offshore fishing, diving, whatever. Heck there are 3 boats that size here in Port A doing 48-60 hour offshore trips and those boats are going out up to 160 miles offshore.

It's been a while, but I've been on one of those boats....and I picked a berth below decks....I won't do that again.  Of course, there's somebody (lots of somebodies) up and moving at all times on those trips -- you're either underway, or fishing, so lots of folks are moving about at any given time.

It really seems that what got folks here was that a fire started, and there was nobody there to deal with it when it was small.  By the time the crew was awakened, it was far too late.  As long as someone's awake, there's a lot of fire suppression equipment on board, as I recall, and any small fire can be put out in seconds.

[ChickenSandwich 9,843]

You would think every similar outfit would be installing more smoke detectors and an alarm system/emergency lighting. 

They will probably take the safety briefing with customers way more seriously when showing them the exits etc. 

[justhookit 4,191]

1 hour ago, smuggs said:

Not allowing tour operators to stack-sleep ~40 people in roughly 900 sq/f of below deck cabin space in an 80' boat is a start. Or a max occupancy regulation that is not only tied to the weight restrictions of the vessel (which I believe is the case now but not positive) but also to an amount of clear space required per individual to allow for free and safe movement about the vessel, particularly in an emergency.

 

Like Diablo said, this has really never been an issue before and if the facts play out like it’s looking then it was a freak accident with no one awake, that may or may not have been preventable. The layout of the boat is definitely an issue and whether it’s because of new regs or just common sense that needs to be looked at. The fishing boats I mentioned earlier are almost identical to this boat, but they don’t have berths below. People sleep on the main deck in benches.

[Sbbruin 21,865]

Stacked three-high in bunks with 35 other humans in the belly of a 70 ft boat is not my idea of a fun vacation.  Is this a common thing?   I don’t dive, but the image I have in my head of an offshore, multi-day dive trip is 8-10 divers max and 2-3 crew.

I've done numerous overnight tuna trips out of San Diego and that is common. But the boats I've been on have stairs leading directly to the aft deck, not through the galley, to facilitate quick exiting in case of a hookup on the troll. That would have solved this. So tragic.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

2 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

I've done numerous overnight tuna trips out of San Diego and that is common. But the boats I've been on have stairs leading directly to the aft deck, not through the galley, to facilitate quick exiting in case of a hookup on the troll. That would have solved this. So tragic.

You haven't had 35-40 other ship mates on those trips have you ?  Typically it's no more than 6.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Onboard 2.0

[LarryTT 26]

20 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I grew up on the water, dangerous shit happens in the wink of an eye, and there's no where to go.  If I had a boat full of people I'd for damn sure have somebody awake at all times, and not just sitting on the bridge.  

I'd make sure people understood why their fee was a little higher.. what with having somebody awake at all times to monitor the boat and their personal safety.

Agree shit happens quite quickly. I have my USCG 100 Ton  Master Captains license. I don't even need a boat full of people to have somebody awake at all times. Even if its just another couple, mostly because its going to be me awake as I don't trust generator fumes, anchor drag, other dumasses running gennys around me with shifting winds, etc so I don't sleep much with my concerns but I will arrange watch schedules anyway. I also have 4 smoke and fire alarms and 4 CO detectors on a 40' boat.

[justhookit 4,191]

5 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You haven't had 35-40 mother ship mates on those trips have you ?  Typically it's no more than 6.

Huh? It’s around 30, like a few of us on this thread have said already. These types of trips are common.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

1 hour ago, justhookit said:

Huh? It’s around 30, like a few of us on this thread have said already. These types of trips are common.

30 people on a Tuna charter ? I was referring to Tuna chapters not dive boat excursions 

Edited September 13, 2019 by Onboard 2.0

[RPM 26,327]

Maybe we should step up CG random inspections underway. Oh, wait... we're cutting the CG budget again.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

16 hours ago, justhookit said:

Yes. At least here though you would be talking about 20-30 people on overnight trips. It’s not insane. This particular incident was, though, if the facts are right.

I’m not sure what to tell the people that are doubting that this situation is common. You’re 3 or 4 other crew members besides the 2nd captain are typically min. wage dudes looking to move up in the fishing or boating world. They are there to collect a pay check, get sea hours, and hopefully they aren’t drunk or high before or during the trip.

And whose fault would that be? 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

So what if I hired a bunch of minimum wage morons to watch over your boat?

Sorry about the fire though. Terrible tragedy but accidents happen. 

[justhookit 4,191]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

30 people on a Tuna charter ? I was referring to Tuna chapters not dive boat excursions 

Yes. Not sure what is difficult about  this concept.

[justhookit 4,191]

45 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

So what if I hired a bunch of minimum wage morons to watch over your boat?

Sorry about the fire though. Terrible tragedy but accidents happen. 

I’ve made my thoughts pretty clear on this thread. It’s terrible and we can all agree on that.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

1 minute ago, justhookit said:

Yes. Not sure what is difficult about  this concept.

I don't think he read Bruins post, which I was quoting of course.  I was also thinking sport fishing, not a commercial outfit of some kind.

[justhookit 4,191]

11 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I don't think he read Bruins post, which I was quoting of course.  I was also thinking sport fishing, not a commercial outfit of some kind.

It is sportfishing. They do it all over the U.S. and the world. With 20-40 people on board. This isn’t a charter it’s an open boat trip usually referred to as a party boat. Don’t take that term in the literal sense it’s serious fishing.

[El Diablo 4,232]

50 minutes ago, justhookit said:

It is sportfishing. They do it all over the U.S. and the world. With 20-40 people on board. This isn’t a charter it’s an open boat trip usually referred to as a party boat. Don’t take that term in the literal sense it’s serious fishing.

Yeah, it's just like the bottom fishing trips out of Port A on the Whart Cat. Whole buncha fuckers who want to go but instead of leaving at dawn and coming back at 4 or 5 you go way out and spend 50 hours fishing for triple tail. Hardly sleep at all and fish 'til you drop. But there are bunks if and when you gotta crash. I've been out on those same types of boat trips in North Carolina which is closer to Onboard2.0's part of the world so I know they exist in that neck of the woods. 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

1 hour ago, justhookit said:

It is sportfishing. They do it all over the U.S. and the world. With 20-40 people on board. This isn’t a charter it’s an open boat trip usually referred to as a party boat. Don’t take that term in the literal sense it’s serious fishing.

Weird,  never seen that in Va or N Carolina

[Murfdogg21 4,413]

They all died in their sleep of smoke inhalation, but why were there so many claw marks on the inside of the doors and windows?

[RPM 26,327]

31 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

They all died in their sleep of smoke inhalation, but why were there so many claw marks on the inside of the doors and windows?

It was an old boat?

[Gil Bang 25,982]

Onboard, what you are referring to are known out here as “six-pack” charters, but they are relatively expensive, so party boats are much more common.

When the tuna or yellowtail or biting in San Diego, Those boats generally sell out. They will be at full capacity when the fishing is good.

[Updawg 2,278]

We've deviated from diving to fishing charters

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

7 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Onboard, what you are referring to are known out here as “six-pack” charters, but they are relatively expensive, so party boats are much more common.

When the tuna or yellowtail or biting in San Diego, Those boats generally sell out. They will be at full capacity when the fishing is good.

Yeah the party boats here only do coastal bottom fishing. If you're going out into the Gulf Stream (2-4 hours depending on your harbor) is 6 people max for the most part.  Yeah it's expensive, $1,400-$1,600 or so plus tips for a charter now, depending on the boat of course.

Ya'll don't have to go out that far either correct ?

Edited September 14, 2019 by Onboard 2.0

[El Diablo 4,232]

56 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah the party boats here only do coastal bottom fishing. If you're going out into the Gulf Stream (2-4 hours depending on your harbor) is 6 people max for the most part.  Yeah it's expensive, $1,400-$1,600 or so plus tips for a charter now, depending on the boat of course.

Ya'll don't have to go out that far either correct ?

I can't answer for Gil and the West Coast but here in Texas that's pretty much the same deal as far as travel and expense.

[justhookit 4,191]

3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah the party boats here only do coastal bottom fishing. If you're going out into the Gulf Stream (2-4 hours depending on your harbor) is 6 people max for the most part.  Yeah it's expensive, $1,400-$1,600 or so plus tips for a charter now, depending on the boat of course.

Ya'll don't have to go out that far either correct ?

The party boats here do all kinds of trips ranging from 4 to 60 hour trips. The typical summer trip is about 10 hours and they go 40ish miles out. The 6 pack charters start at about 1600 like you said but that gets you a center console and you’ll be kingfishing. The real charters for billfish/pelagics are 12 hour trips on a flybridge, are north of 3000 dollars, and go 60-80 miles offshore.

[Gil Bang 25,982]

Yeah the party boats here only do coastal bottom fishing. If you're going out into the Gulf Stream (2-4 hours depending on your harbor) is 6 people max for the most part.  Yeah it's expensive, $1,400-$1,600 or so plus tips for a charter now, depending on the boat of course.
Ya'll don't have to go out that far either correct ?

The typical harbor in Southern California will offer a half-day, three-quarter day, overnight, and multi day trips.

A half day trip will run 40 or 50 bucks, and the distance traveled depends on what’s biting. Quite often, they stay pretty close to the coast and fish for sand bass, bonito, etc.

The longer trips usually travel further for the more exotic species including dorado, yellowtail etc.

If you’re near L.A., the longer trips will likely fish the Catalina Island waters. If you’re further south, you’re more likely to fish the Mexican waters. The Ventura and Santa Barbara guys will hit the Channel Islands.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

1 hour ago, justhookit said:

The party boats here do all kinds of trips ranging from 4 to 60 hour trips. The typical summer trip is about 10 hours and they go 40ish miles out. The 6 pack charters start at about 1600 like you said but that gets you a center console and you’ll be kingfishing. The real charters for billfish/pelagics are 12 hour trips on a flybridge, are north of 3000 dollars, and go 60-80 miles offshore.

Nah here it's $1,400 and up (for a day), and that's for deep sea fishing marlin (white and blue), tuna, Mahi, sail fish, etc.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

2 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

 

The typical harbor in Southern California will offer a half-day, three-quarter day, overnight, and multi day trips.

A half day trip will run 40 or 50 bucks, and the distance traveled depends on what’s biting. Quite often, they stay pretty close to the coast and fish for sand bass, bonito, etc.

The longer trips usually travel further for the more exotic species including dorado, yellowtail etc.

If you’re near L.A., the longer trips will likely fish the Catalina Island waters. If you’re further south, you’re more likely to fish the Mexican waters. The Ventura and Santa Barbara guys will hit the Channel Islands.

 

 

Yep, those are the party (or head boat) rates here.  Flounder, cobra, grey trout, rock fish, croaker, spot, mackeral, sheepshead, etc.  They're all bait fishing ad drinking beer.

[woohorn 1,131]

Serious stupid Q: that's a lot of people crappin' on a boat for 3 days-do they dump it or eventually pump it out at the dock?

[Gil Bang 25,982]

2 minutes ago, woohorn said:

Serious stupid Q: that's a lot of people crappin' on a boat for 3 days-do they dump it or eventually pump it out at the dock?

You're worried about these tiny boats?  Imagine a cruise ship.  IIRC, they dump sewage if they are more than 3 miles out from shore. 

[woohorn 1,131]

You're worried about these tiny boats?  Imagine a cruise ship.  IIRC, they dump sewage if they are more than 3 miles out from shore. 

Not worried, just obvs that space is at a premium and wondering if they store 3 days worth of shit from 30 ppl.

 

[justhookit 4,191]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Nah here it's $1,400 and up (for a day), and that's for deep sea fishing marlin (white and blue), tuna, Mahi, sail fish, etc.

Yeah it’s amazing how much cheaper it is there. Shorter run and I believe a lot of the boats are single screw, so less fuel.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

3 minutes ago, justhookit said:

Yeah it’s amazing how much cheaper it is there. Shorter run and I believe a lot of the boats are single screw, so less fuel.

What's the run time from slip to dropping teasers in the water out there ?  

[justhookit 4,191]

For blues/whites/sails we are usually fishing spots 65-85 miles so sometimes the run on a day trip can be up to 3 hours. To target big blues we go to the floating oil rigs which are all well over 100 miles, most are ~150. Those trips are overnight though.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

6 minutes ago, justhookit said:

For blues/whites/sails we are usually fishing spots 65-85 miles so sometimes the run on a day trip can be up to 3 hours. To target big blues we go to the floating oil rigs which are all well over 100 miles, most are ~150. Those trips are overnight though.

Yep those are a bit longer than out of North Carolina. The Va. boats will run down to the Gulf Stream off Cape Hatteras NC.. That can be a 3 hour run depending  on the wind and how rough the seas are running.  Once you're in the Gulf Stream you can catch anything. They get some late fall seasons where you can catch the 500 lb bluefins on 1 hour runs out of Hatteras.

Still, those costs are damn high compared to east coast "6 pack runs" of just slightly less run times.

[ImissWallyPryor 9,046]

Lot of "out here" and "out there" talk going on.  Some of us can't keep straight where here is or where there is.  Are either near "over yonder"?

Edited September 14, 2019 by ImissWallyPryor

[justhookit 4,191]

Mostly it’s been Texas fishing and East Coast fishing. As you know yonder may be the next farm over but usually means like over in Midland.

[wood 11,229]

On 9/14/2019 at 6:00 PM, ImissWallyPryor said:

Lot of "out here" and "out there" talk going on.  Some of us can't keep straight where here is or where there is.  Are either near "over yonder"?

I think one of 'em is a ways off and the other is down the road a piece...

[justhookit 4,191]

1 hour ago, wood said:

I think one of 'em is a ways off and the other is down the road a piece...

One of my favorite quotes ever was a Marlin Magazine story about blue marlin fishing in Texas. One of the captains they interviewed was asked how he fished the oil rigs, basically trying to get an answer about how close to the rig he trolled. His answer was you “fish from see till can’t see”. In other words your lines go in miles off the rig and then you fish everywhere in between. He wasn’t exactly wrong, but we catch most fairly tight to the rigs.

[Gil Bang 25,982]

 

[Cajun 11,722]

On 9/14/2019 at 3:54 PM, justhookit said:

For blues/whites/sails we are usually fishing spots 65-85 miles so sometimes the run on a day trip can be up to 3 hours. To target big blues we go to the floating oil rigs which are all well over 100 miles, most are ~150. Those trips are overnight though.

Mmmmm, this has me hankerin' for a tequila or, perhaps, a cerveza.

[justhookit 4,191]

7 hours ago, Cajun said:

Mmmmm, this has me hankerin' for a tequila or, perhaps, a cerveza.

Tequila is gone and I think cervaza too, or at least it’s on the list to get taken down. May have that backwards. Falcon is definitely gone also. The idiots have ruined GOM fishing. 
edit- I’m sure you fished Southern the rig there has been gone around 10 years and all the Baker rigs are gone but one and it’s going away soon.

Edited October 22, 2020 by justhookit

[justhookit 4,191]

7 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

 

Horrible.

Thats nightmare fuel, but I trust my captain, mates, and friends to not let something like that happen when we are overnighting.

[Cajun 11,722]

12 hours ago, justhookit said:

Tequila is gone and I think cervaza too, or at least it’s on the list to get taken down. May have that backwards. Falcon is definitely gone also. The idiots have ruined GOM fishing. 
edit- I’m sure you fished Southern the rig there has been gone around 10 years and all the Baker rigs are gone but one and it’s going away soon.

I outlived those rigs?  Jeebus.

Fuck, now I feel old.

[Gil Bang 25,982]

Skipper just charged with 34 counts of manslaughter per L.A. Times

[Gil Bang 25,982]

 

[justhookit 4,191]

Good.

article goes on to say that they want the boat owner to be accountable too. Not sure you can get there. Vessel assuredly had passed coast guard inspection.

Edited December 2, 2020 by justhookit