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Climate Change Town Hall - CNN

Neonmoon

By Neonmoon
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ryskey

ryskey 447

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No, I'm on the make renewable energy inherently profitable without bankrupting society bandwagon.  You asked for a tax, and I came up with one that causes the least damage.  What's your solution?

As opposed to an earmarked, industry-specific subsidy, a carbon tax is a bit more agnostic on where you get your energy.  It will also make solar, wind, and nuclear power more expensive for a while.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29258

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1 hour ago, ryskey said:

No, I'm on the make renewable energy inherently profitable without bankrupting society bandwagon.  You asked for a tax, and I came up with one that causes the least damage.  What's your solution?

As opposed to an earmarked, industry-specific subsidy, a carbon tax is a bit more agnostic on where you get your energy.  It will also make solar, wind, and nuclear power more expensive for a while.

We spent $649 billion on fossil fuel subsidies in 2017.  How about we simply reallocate that?

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ztejas

ztejas 43266

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4 hours ago, GSU&UT said:

So are we doing this thing again where we pretend that virtually all climate scientists aren't telling us we basically have no time to stop the worst effects of the ongoing warming? Slow rolling something out over 20+ years is not going to do anywhere near enough to stop massive damage to the earth.

Also, how many coal miner jobs are there? This states that there were only about 80,000 in 2018 and that number is going down regardless of any executive or legislative action.

https://www.wvpublic.org/post/coal-comeback-coal-new-low-after-two-years-under-trump

4 hours ago, GSU&UT said:

So just completely ignoring the first part of my post then right? Sorry that radical change is needed, maybe if we didn't have decades of voting for presidents that pushed deregulation and actively denying the problem we wouldn't see candidates (correctly) taking an aggressive stance on this.

4 hours ago, GSU&UT said:

What's going to be catastrophic is having to spend on the order of trillions of dollars in repairs, building sea walls, people moving from the coast and being unable to sell their homes (and likely struggling to find work quickly), etc.

4 hours ago, GSU&UT said:

Holy fuck, what is this argument that China is just chugging along and ignoring climate change? If anything they're doing a HELL of a lot more than the US in investing in renewables, high speed rail, and nuclear energy (which yes the GND doesn't call for). And yes I can understand if you're skeptical of what they say publicly, but pointing the finger at someone else and saying "why should we make sacrifice when they aren't" is 5 year old logic.

If the US significantly curbed its emissions it's still going to have a huge impact on fighting the worst possible effects of climate change.

 

4 hours ago, GSU&UT said:

No offense but you're acting as if O&G would be the only industry where people have had to make sacrifice. There are tons of us who have debt, a more shaky financial situation due to wage growth that hasn't come close to matching increasing profits, an inability therefore to get better housing. I'm sorry if I don't exactly feel upset if people in O&G may face an uncertain future, because they aren't the only ones.

The GND also calls for tons of these people to be able to take jobs that still would be in the energy sector. There would be plenty available, and yeah it may be a career change (which I've done twice now because of debt and forces outside of my control).

Here, just take all of my rep. 

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elfenix

elfenix 34172

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3 hours ago, ryskey said:

No, I'm on the make renewable energy inherently profitable without bankrupting society bandwagon.  You asked for a tax, and I came up with one that causes the least damage.  What's your solution?

As opposed to an earmarked, industry-specific subsidy, a carbon tax is a bit more agnostic on where you get your energy.  It will also make solar, wind, and nuclear power more expensive for a while.

knock yourself out.

note that a proposal that doesn't fix the problem isn't a solution.  it might be part of a solution. 

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berlinerbaer

berlinerbaer 670

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I've worked peripherally in O&G for 5 years now, and there's too much about it that I don't get, but there are some recent trends I and others have observed that suggest that many of the characteristics people take for granted about the industry might be changing. Wall Street just isn't pumping money into it like it used to. That might be a lingering effect of the downturn, but I think some of it has to do with the arrival of renewables, which aren't going away. 

When I joined my company in 2014 (chemical supplier), I was told the next annual meeting was going to be in St. Thomas. Then it was California. Then it was cancelled altogether. We finally got around to having one in San Antonio just last year. This year, it was in downtown Houston, but only for the sales force. The downturn is over and yet, here we are. The point is that the days of people lighting cigars with $100 bills isn't that far away in the rear view mirror, but people still seem to think they're up ahead. I don't think they are.

The sky-high salaries are going to come down. Either that, or the number of folks making them will drop due to layoffs. Speaking of layoffs, they happen by the hundreds of thousands every decade or so anyway thanks to the boom and bust inherent with the industry. Many of the folks who get the axe never go back to O&G. People talk about a generation gap in the workforce, with lots of young people and folks approaching retirement, but nobody in between. That's because those people went elsewhere.

Bottom line is I don't see the GND, in the likely watered-down form it will take, doing all that much to alter the natural trajectory of the industry, which is to become overall more hostile to its workforce.

 

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elfenix

elfenix 34172

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in other news, solar arrays may be able to complement agriculture:

Quote

Solar panels might seem like they’re in direct competition with plants. One is catching sunlight to do photosynthesis, the other wants to take it to push electrons. Surely Highlander rules apply, and there can be only one on a plot of land, right?

In reality, it’s not a zero-sum game. Some plants will burn in direct sun, after all, and so there are plenty of food crops that would be happy to share their space with panels. And as a new study led by the University of Arizona’s Greg Barron-Gafford shows, the combination isn’t even necessarily a compromise—there are some synergies that can bring significant benefits to a solar-agriculture.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38127

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12 hours ago, berlinerbaer said:

I've worked peripherally in O&G for 5 years now, and there's too much about it that I don't get, but there are some recent trends I and others have observed that suggest that many of the characteristics people take for granted about the industry might be changing. Wall Street just isn't pumping money into it like it used to. That might be a lingering effect of the downturn, but I think some of it has to do with the arrival of renewables, which aren't going away. 

When I joined my company in 2014 (chemical supplier), I was told the next annual meeting was going to be in St. Thomas. Then it was California. Then it was cancelled altogether. We finally got around to having one in San Antonio just last year. This year, it was in downtown Houston, but only for the sales force. The downturn is over and yet, here we are. The point is that the days of people lighting cigars with $100 bills isn't that far away in the rear view mirror, but people still seem to think they're up ahead. I don't think they are.

The sky-high salaries are going to come down. Either that, or the number of folks making them will drop due to layoffs. Speaking of layoffs, they happen by the hundreds of thousands every decade or so anyway thanks to the boom and bust inherent with the industry. Many of the folks who get the axe never go back to O&G. People talk about a generation gap in the workforce, with lots of young people and folks approaching retirement, but nobody in between. That's because those people went elsewhere.

Bottom line is I don't see the GND, in the likely watered-down form it will take, doing all that much to alter the natural trajectory of the industry, which is to become overall more hostile to its workforce.

 

This is very true. 

The O&G industry will be strippped down by automation and digitization. It’s already happening. They have already developed automated rigs. They will only get more prevalent as the technology evolves. In house, positions are already being eliminated due to digitalization, out-sourcing, and AI. Management has informed managers that some groups will not have positions backfilled if an employee leaves. 

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EMAWesome

EMAWesome 101

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On 9/5/2019 at 10:40 AM, GSU&UT said:

Holy fuck, what is this argument that China is just chugging along and ignoring climate change? If anything they're doing a HELL of a lot more than the US in investing in renewables, high speed rail, and nuclear energy (which yes the GND doesn't call for). And yes I can understand if you're skeptical of what they say publicly, but pointing the finger at someone else and saying "why should we make sacrifice when they aren't" is 5 year old logic.

If the US significantly curbed its emissions it's still going to have a huge impact on fighting the worst possible effects of climate change.

 

And yet greenhouse emissions in the United States decreased last year (thank you fracking) and increased in China. (and pretty much everywhere else in the developed world including those countries that signed the Paris Accord)

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troph

troph 24563

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Bunch of Prius drivers up in here I'm sure.

I drive an electric car, doesn’t move the needle much but I’ve got three new drivers coming on line in the next 1.5-6.5 years. I’m finding it very difficult to justify buying them gas powered cars tbqh.
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