Plastic waste in the environment

[Crusher 127]

True plastic can be recycled indefinitely. The rework rate is only determined by the pigment concentration in the rework material and what color you are trying to add it to. Most uses demand clear plastic. If you add any pigment then you lower the rework possibilities. 

Thermoplastic is thermoplastic. Heat it, shape it and when done reheat and reshape.

Where people get confused is when BPA and other sorts of reactive materials are added. Now you have thermoset polymers. They look like plastic. Melt like plastic. But are not plastic anymore. They cannot go back to true plastic form. You could re heat and filter out the thermoset and leave behind uncrosslinked material but eventually you would have diminishing returns. Then you ain't making no money.

So sell it to people who don't give a shit and dump it in the ocean. Got to do something with those old whaling ships.

[staboner 4969]

On 9/6/2019 at 8:23 AM, wild_turkey said:

That's one of the things I'm hung up on. It seems insane to ship plastic waste across the world for the same result (recycling or landfill) or worse result (dumped in the ocean). Maybe it makes more sense to stop "recycling" plastic.

Obviously less plastic usage is ideal, but I say that as I drink a Propel from a plastic bottle. And I like Propel and it only comes in plastic bottles. And I go through a gallon of milk and a large bottle of orange juice a week. Hell, half the food (non-produce, non-meat) we buy comes in some form of plastic.

FYI you can get powder packs of propel at HEB in Austin (and i assume elsewhere in TX)

[Iceman 2690]

9 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

I'm doing my part. Kid had a birthday party in the park a few weeks back. Hot as fuck. Instead of a bunch of iced down bottled waters, I dumped half a bag of ice into one of these badboys, filled with water, and bought a hundred little paper cups. 

 

 

 

the ice came in a paper bag, eh?

 

You still sinnin' bro.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4974]

7 hours ago, Crusher said:

True plastic can be recycled indefinitely. The rework rate is only determined by the pigment concentration in the rework material and what color you are trying to add it to. Most uses demand clear plastic. If you add any pigment then you lower the rework possibilities. 

Thermoplastic is thermoplastic. Heat it, shape it and when done reheat and reshape.

Where people get confused is when BPA and other sorts of reactive materials are added. Now you have thermoset polymers. They look like plastic. Melt like plastic. But are not plastic anymore. They cannot go back to true plastic form. You could re heat and filter out the thermoset and leave behind uncrosslinked material but eventually you would have diminishing returns. Then you ain't making no money.

So sell it to people who don't give a shit and dump it in the ocean. Got to do something with those old whaling ships.

There's more than just color that makes a difference. Melt flow rates will vary wildly for different applications even within on class of plastic, and I'm not aware of anything that can really be done to sort that out other than just trying to sort the types of trash. And many applications require precise amounts of slip or antiblock additives or low gel counts. You can't really control for that with recycled consumer plastic. 

[Born to Run 6569]

Lest the last vestige of South Austin's mom not be forgotten when our robot overlords take their rightful place

What's the back story on South Austin's Mom?

[Born to Run 6569]

I absolutely cannot stand the bottled water trend. My Dad is one of those who goes through several a day at his own house and I just can't understand it.

I have smart, wealthy clients that get weekly shipments of bottled water, Gallons and 20 oz bottles, that end up sitting on the porch in the hot sun for fucking days leeching chemicals.
Buy a filter. Drink tap, its Westlake they pipe in Evian as it is.

[freyguy 4261]

I would love for some worldwide watchdog group to start chemically analyzing what continually washes up at various locations, then build an ongoing crawl chart of which companies and countries of origin are the largest offenders.

[Not that Bob 735]

2 hours ago, Iceman said:

the ice came in a paper bag, eh?

 

You still sinnin' bro.

Buy block of ice and use ice pick. No plastic bag. No paper bag. Just a big beautiful bock of ice.  That's how us olds used to ice down beer. 

[davidg 4036]

Buy block of ice and use ice pick. No plastic bag. No paper bag. Just a big beautiful bock of ice.  That's how us olds used to ice down beer. 

Old school, red, 48 qt ice chest would hold a 50lb block just perfect. Dad would take two on the camping trips of my youth. One to hold extra ice and one for food and drinks. Used an old wood handled ice pick to chip off ice to put in out glasses, then would pour a coke out of a glass bottle over it. Not much plastic used.

[Born to Run 6569]

My grandparents made block ice in a freezer, drank from the tap, gardened, foraged, preserved food in jars, reused bags, composted, and repurposed just about anything that was salvageable.

 

Their boomer offspring buy water by the case and ice it down with melting bag ice, eat pre-packaged food, fill giant bins with trash every week and get bent out of shape over plastic bag bans. They are all fat, unhealthy and overmedicated just to stay alive.

 

 

 

[Not that Bob 735]

56 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

My grandparents made block ice in a freezer, drank from the tap, gardened, foraged, preserved food in jars, reused bags, composted, and repurposed just about anything that was salvageable.

 

Their boomer offspring buy water by the case and ice it down with melting bag ice, eat pre-packaged food, fill giant bins with trash every week and get bent out of shape over plastic bag bans. They are all fat, unhealthy and overmedicated just to stay alive.

 

 

 

...as do their Millennial grandchildren. Just sayin'. Now, get offa my lawn! 

[Born to Run 6569]

...as do their Millennial grandchildren. Just sayin'. Now, get offa my lawn! 

Actually millenials tend to embrace slow food, local produce, reusable containers and carry reusable water containers everywhere. I know a few that carry resusble cutlery.

[workswithseed 2088]

8 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

2 hours ago, Not that Bob said:

...as do their Millennial grandchildren. Just sayin'. Now, get offa my lawn! 

Actually millenials tend to embrace slow food, local produce, reusable containers and carry reusable water containers everywhere. I know a few that carry resusble cutlery.

Yes, yes we do.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4974]

5 hours ago, freyguy said:

I would love for some worldwide watchdog group to start chemically analyzing what continually washes up at various locations, then build an ongoing crawl chart of which companies and countries of origin are the largest offenders.

You do realize that plastic from a single plastic plant gets shipped world wide before being made into products, right? So even if every plastic plant had a different process with different identifiable catalyst residues, there still isn't any way to know which country then made the product that washed up.

[freyguy 4261]

Yes, I know pellets vs bottles are made by different companies.  But the pressure should start somewhere.  I would like to see the plastic companies catching alot of heat for this.  Having that data up front in the news could eventually force them to tweak their policies and push for better solutions on disposing & destruction, or further development of materials that are less harmful to the environment.  Hey CEO, you just made $100mill last year, but it turns out we're finding 30% of the plastics in the washed up bodies of sea life coming from your plants.  How do you feel about that?

[Okie State 3804]

50 minutes ago, freyguy said:

Yes, I know pellets vs bottles are made by different companies.  But the pressure should start somewhere.  I would like to see the plastic companies catching alot of heat for this.  Having that data up front in the news could eventually force them to tweak their policies and push for better solutions on disposing & destruction, or further development of materials that are less harmful to the environment.  Hey CEO, you just made $100mill last year, but it turns out we're finding 30% of the plastics in the washed up bodies of sea life coming from your plants.  How do you feel about that?

"I work for the shareholders."

Seriously though I agree that companies should be more accountable for the products they produce. I also believe consumers need to alter their mindset and behavior around things such as plastics. They're great products when they're not taken for granted. Unfortunately we know how that will turn out.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Okie State

[BabaYaga 15286]

8 hours ago, Born to Run said:

On 9/6/2019 at 12:20 PM, BabaYaga said:

Lest the last vestige of South Austin's mom not be forgotten when our robot overlords take their rightful place

What's the back story on South Austin's Mom?

Back story?   Well, she’s on her back. A LOT 

Edited September 7, 2019 by BabaYaga

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

18 minutes ago, Okie State said:

"I work for the shareholders."

Seriously though I agree that companies should be more accountable for the products they produce. I also believe consumers need to alter their mindset and behavior around things such as plastics. They're great products when they're not taken for granted. Unfortunately we know how that will turn out.

Yep, but we don't own the planet and creating products that have a measurable affect on the Earths ecosytsem should be an issue for all corporations to be required to mitigate..

[Not that Bob 735]

18 hours ago, Born to Run said:

21 hours ago, Not that Bob said:

...as do their Millennial grandchildren. Just sayin'. Now, get offa my lawn! 

Actually millenials tend to embrace slow food, local produce, reusable containers and carry reusable water containers everywhere. I know a few that carry resusble cutlery.

I believe you are talking about Hipsters, of which a few are millenials. I, an admitted old, have been accused of being a Hipster. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

17 minutes ago, Not that Bob said:

I believe you are talking about Hipsters, of which a few are millenials. I, an admitted old, have been accused of being a Hipster. 

That's a call to a care to step outside, and say that moment.

[Not that Bob 735]

I'm an old. Very little profit in me taking on a challenge to fisticuffs. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, Not that Bob said:

I'm an old. Very little profit in me taking on a challenge to fisticuffs. 

True, with age does come wisdom.  Still, a free beer laced with some spit wouldn't be out of the realm of reason.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

On 9/7/2019 at 10:10 AM, davidg said:

 

Old school, red, 48 qt ice chest would hold a 50lb block just perfect. Dad would take two on the camping trips of my youth. One to hold extra ice and one for food and drinks. Used an old wood handled ice pick to chip off ice to put in out glasses, then would pour a coke out of a glass bottle over it. Not much plastic used.
 

 

I fill up a five gallon bucket with water and put it in the deep freezer.  That shit will keep a cooler cold for a week or more. A d you can chip off pieces for drinks as needed.  

[Not that Bob 735]

How long does it take to freeze the 5 gallons? Sounds like a good idea. 

[CooterBrown 18002]

Actually millenials tend to embrace slow food, local produce, reusable containers and carry reusable water containers everywhere. I know a few that carry resusble cutlery.

My kids are 12 & 6 and they both take reusable straws with them when we go out to eat.

[Coyote 269]

My kids are 12 & 6 and they both take reusable straws with them when we go out to eat.

Why is everyone so afraid to drink out of a cup? Do most people not quit straws of any form when the lid of their sippy cup comes off? Age 3-4?

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

On 9/5/2019 at 8:19 PM, Not that Bob said:

Refillable glass bottles. Beer and Coke taste better from the glass refillable bottles. Milk, too. I broke numerous returnable glass milk bottles sitting on porches, waiting for the milk man, when I threw newspapers. I learned to be a better shot. Everything used to come in glass, or some sort of durable wax paper container, or thin cardboard containers. No doubt more expensive, but I don't see any other way. 

We've been recycling for 30+ years, and we've recently shifted to the pre-plastic wax cardboard half gallon jugs.  We don't buy much in the way of plastic bottled drinks these days.  I'd like to think that aluminum and tin cans are more reliably recycled.

I'm getting distracted by freyguy's post....

[Johnny Sack 8397]

On ‎9‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 6:42 PM, Not that Bob said:

How long does it take to freeze the 5 gallons? Sounds like a good idea. 

Not even sure.  I put it in a few days before a trip.  It works really well.

[52-80 19144]

14 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Not even sure.  I put it in a few days before a trip.  It works really well.

How much energy and CO2 to keep that freezer running

[Johnny Sack 8397]

6 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

How much energy and CO2 to keep that freezer running

No idea.  I keep all my proteins from fishing and hunting in it. So it is always running.  

[BabaYaga 15286]

On 9/8/2019 at 5:21 PM, Johnny Sack said:

I fill up a five gallon bucket with water and put it in the deep freezer.  That shit will keep a cooler cold for a week or more. A d you can chip off pieces for drinks as needed.  

Similar methods, except we froze a bunch of gallon ziploc bags full of water.  Lay them down on their sides and they flatten out nicely.  Then you have ice cold bags of water to drink as well.  Or frozen plastic water bottles.  Same idea.  

Two kids deep into soccer.  Severs pain always an issue.  They take exactly four frozen water bottles and a bucket and ice their feet/ankles after each practice.  Like clockwork.  Then bottles go back in freezer for next time.  

[Jiggy-Z 3432]

4 hours ago, 52-80 said:

How much energy and CO2 to keep that freezer running

Freezers have a  pretty low energy to usefulness ratio (or high usefulness to energy ratio) especially when only opened occasionally and used almost full for longer term storage.

I do my own block ice for game trips and camping as well.  I even bring my starter cube ice from my ice machine at work or home fridge.  No bags here. 

[Buzzrock 14902]

Aluminum is where it’s at. Lighter than glass and 100% recyclable.

I’ve seen some creative alternatives to plastic but they tend to be plant based. So unless they are byproducts now you’re talking about growing containers instead of growing food. Doesn’t seem sustainable.

[elfenix 34223]

Aluminum is where it’s at. Lighter than glass and 100% recyclable.

I’ve seen some creative alternatives to plastic but they tend to be plant based. So unless they are byproducts now you’re talking about growing containers instead of growing food. Doesn’t seem sustainable.

We grow so much fodder we have to pay people not to grow fodder.

The bigger issue is how much fertilizer is needed since that's an oil product as well

[WBT 20561]

Fertilizer runoff does more harm to the ocean than plastic.  Not as photogenic though.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, WBT said:

Fertilizer runoff does more harm to the ocean than plastic.  Not as photogenic though.

Yep,  The Chesapeake Bay act has done a great deal to curb fertilizer run off. Oyster and crab populations haven't been this stable in decades.

[F250 28762]

On 9/8/2019 at 7:59 PM, Coyote said:

Why is everyone so afraid to drink out of a cup? Do most people not quit straws of any form when the lid of their sippy cup comes off? Age 3-4?

That was my first thought when I saw "reusable straw", just drink out of the cup for God's sake. The same regarding drinking out of a hose, it's clean water take a drink, this isn't Mumbai.

 

 

[Gil Bang 25907]

On 9/10/2019 at 9:53 AM, BabaYaga said:

Similar methods, except we froze a bunch of gallon ziploc bags full of water.  Lay them down on their sides and they flatten out nicely.  Then you have ice cold bags of water to drink as well.  Or frozen plastic water bottles.  Same idea.  

Two kids deep into soccer.  Severs pain always an issue.  They take exactly four frozen water bottles and a bucket and ice their feet/ankles after each practice.  Like clockwork.  Then bottles go back in freezer for next time.  

a solution of rubbing alcohol and water makes an amazing, flexible ice pack.   Use over and over. 

[Gil Bang 25907]

Plastic water bottles need to be taxed heavily, or banned altogether.

 

SFO airport has banned plastic single-use bottles.   Like most  environmental things that start in CA, others will follow eventually (no CR)

[Fudge Nuggets 19187]

On 9/7/2019 at 6:23 PM, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yep, but we don't own the planet

Like hell we don’t.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4974]

34 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

Plastic water bottles need to be taxed heavily, or banned altogether.

 

SFO airport has banned plastic single-use bottles.   Like most  environmental things that start in CA, others will follow eventually (no CR)

How many environmental things does Cali do that never get adopted, or only get adopted later on when other factors lead to their adoption? While I do like that they try to be environmentally friendly, sometimes it seems they go a bit overboard. Sometimes environmental regulations can backfire, like basing vehicke emissions ratings on the size of the wheelbase.

[Gil Bang 25907]

20 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

How many environmental things does Cali do that never get adopted, or only get adopted later on when other factors lead to their adoption? While I do like that they try to be environmentally friendly, sometimes it seems they go a bit overboard. Sometimes environmental regulations can backfire, like basing vehicke emissions ratings on the size of the wheelbase.

I assume that you're setting me up, so I'll let you go ahead and educate me here.  But I fucking PROMISE you that the rest of the country will follow this lead banning plastic bottles, eventually, with the exception of the "own the libs" idiots that destroyed their nike shoes, Keurig coffeemakers (an environmental disaster for another thread), etc.  Meanwhile, I'd love to hear a couple of examples of CA going "overboard".   I'm sure you have several.  Two or three would be cool.   And truthfully, if an environmental reg makes sense for CA, IDGAF is backwards-ass states don't adopt them. If the donut-lovers in Hazel Green AL aren't smart enough to look at something that CA does and say "hey, that makes sense", well that's on them.  More likely, they would ignore the idea because the cross-dressing faggots in CA came up with it.  Fuck them.   We are leaders in this stuff, not followers. 

Meanwhile,  I'm not sure if it's still going on, but in the last 10 years or so, if you bought certain items in Texas and other states, they had to be "CARB Compliant".  Laminate flooring was one of those things  "CARB" stands for "California Air Resources Board".     Smog controls in cars were required in CA long before the rest of the country figured out that it was a good idea.

Most recently, Dotard is at war with CA because CA cut a deal with car manufacturers to make cars more fuel efficient.   Dotard has told us that the engines won't run as smooth.  I'm sure he knows. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Gil Bang

[wd40 1976]

can't wait for CA to ban Gil Bangs.  the entire population of the state would instantly vanish (in a perfect world).  

SBB's not bad.  just keep him on his boat.

Edited September 17, 2019 by wd40

[Gil Bang 25907]

Wow that stung.  

The only comfort I take is that South Austin is fucking your mom tonight 

[elfenix 34223]

bag bans work, but those didn't start in california.

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/8/20/20806651/plastic-bag-ban-straw-ban-tax

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4974]

9 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

I assume that you're setting me up, so I'll let you go ahead and educate me here.  But I fucking PROMISE you that the rest of the country will follow this lead banning plastic bottles, eventually, with the exception of the "own the libs" idiots that destroyed their nike shoes, Keurig coffeemakers (an environmental disaster for another thread), etc.  Meanwhile, I'd love to hear a couple of examples of CA going "overboard".   I'm sure you have several.  Two or three would be cool.   And truthfully, if an environmental reg makes sense for CA, IDGAF is backwards-ass states don't adopt them. If the donut-lovers in Hazel Green AL aren't smart enough to look at something that CA does and say "hey, that makes sense", well that's on them.  More likely, they would ignore the idea because the cross-dressing faggots in CA came up with it.  Fuck them.   We are leaders in this stuff, not followers. 

Meanwhile,  I'm not sure if it's still going on, but in the last 10 years or so, if you bought certain items in Texas and other states, they had to be "CARB Compliant".  Laminate flooring was one of those things  "CARB" stands for "California Air Resources Board".     Smog controls in cars were required in CA long before the rest of the country figured out that it was a good idea.

Most recently, Dotard is at war with CA because CA cut a deal with car manufacturers to make cars more fuel efficient.   Dotard has told us that the engines won't run as smooth.  I'm sure he knows. 

Wasn't trying to set you up or anything. Chill out a bit, take a toke, maybe consider digging some of the sand out of your vagina.

[BabaYaga 15286]

11 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Meanwhile, I'd love to hear a couple of examples of CA going "overboard".   I'm sure you have several.  Two or three would be cool.

• It is a misdemeanor to shoot at any kind of game from a moving vehicle, unless the target is a whale.

What the actual fuck is this shit.  I will shoot every god damn whale I see now.  

• Animals are banned from mating publicly within 1,500 feet of a tavern, school, or place of worship.

[Gil Bang 25907]

so, two laws, probably written in the 1800's, that have nothing to do with the environment. 

good work. 

[BabaYaga 15286]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

so, two laws, probably written in the 1800's, that have nothing to do with the environment. 

good work. 

Get the sand out of your vag and check your sarcasm meter....

[elfenix 34223]

3 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

It is a misdemeanor to shoot at any kind of game from a moving vehicle, unless the target is a whale.

i don't know if this exists anymore.  here's the code section that seems to deal with hunting from vehicles:

Quote

3002.  

It is unlawful to shoot at any game bird or mammal, including a marine mammal as defined in Section 4500, from a powerboat, sailboat, motor vehicle, or airplane.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=FGC&sectionNum=3002.&article=1.&highlight=true&keyword=vehicle

 

section 4500 includes whales, of course

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=FGC&division=4.&title=&part=3.&chapter=5.&article=

 

back when whaling was a thing that exemption probably existed.  whaling isn't a thing anymore and you can see that this statute was amended back in 1975.

Edited September 17, 2019 by elfenix