A Deeply Underresearched LSU/Texas GIFnalysis

[Katfid54 8591]

My post from last week about La Tech was generally well-received, so I wanted to do a post about LSU.  Plus, inviting the mouthbreathing Tiger fans squatting on our boards to read 2,000 words might occupy them from now until game time.

As with last time, my analysis is flawed and underresearched.  I watched a single LSU game—LSU vs. Georgia Southern’s matchup from last week, and I turned it off when LSU took their starters out.  Here were my takeaways:

What to expect from LSU’s offense?

Much ink has been spilled about LSU’s offseason offensive “turnaround” and hiring of a glorified grad assistant from LSU.  I’m not going to rehash their staff, scheme, or those details.  Instead, I’ll get right to the personnel.

I will say that one thing that was apparent from watching the film was how much more tempo LSU ran their offense with this year.  There was no huddling and an apparent emphasis on moving very quickly offensively.

 

Quarterback:

Everyone knows LSU’s QB is Joe Burrow.  But what is he?  Is he a poor, Cajun (tautological?) man’s version of Sam Ehlinger?  Is he the dregs of Ohio State’s necrosis under Urban Meyer?  Is he a dark horse for the Heisman and possibly the best QB in the SEC?  These questions and more…

What did I see last week?  Frankly, Burrow is extremely accurate in the short passing game.  He showed nice accuracy a few times on the Power/Slant RPO that LSU ran several times

He hit a really nice backshoulder throw on a switch route to take LSU up 21-0:

Burrow has a strong preference for waiting for plays to develop deep, then hitting wide open check down reads, if he’s given time and space to do so.

Seriously, if Orlando decides to bring pressure, our D better get to the QB quickly, because Burrow is more than happy to pick up 5 or 6 yards on check downs.

Burrow’s arm strength is a question mark.  He does not have a cannon and his deep throws flutter and fail on him.  There were times against GSU that Burrow had a receiver wide open downfield, but his passes took so long to get to his target that defenders were able to catch up to the receiver to break up the pass

If he does not have an open receiver, he’s not great at deciding to throw the ball away or try to pick up a few yards on the ground.  He will try to force balls into tight windows, if he doesn’t have a wide open checkdown he can find:

 

Running Backs:

LSU’s starter snaps against GSU went to Clyde Edwards-Helaire (22) and Lanard Fournette (27).

Edwards has some wiggle to him, great burst, and decisive cuts.  But he’s not a big tackle breaker or anything otherworldly:

Fournette appears to be LSU’s version of Kyle Porter:

Let’s hope he gets starter carries again this week.

As mentioned above, Burrow really leaned on the RBs in the checkdown passing game—much more so than in the running game which (as discussed below) wasn’t great against GSU.  They also ran several RB screens.  Here's one to Lanard Fournette:

Seriously, doesn’t he just look and run and get tackled like Kyle Porter?

Here's some more screenage:

 

Offensive Line:

Surprisingly, given everything I’d heard about LSU’s O-line’s strengths and weaknesses, LSU’s OL actually kept a cleaner pocket in pass pro than they did a good job opening up running lanes.

LSU struggled running the ball all night.

But Burrow had plenty of time to throw.

With that said, if LSU’s OL has one big weakness, it’s the immobility of their offensive tackles

Same play from All-22:

Potential for Texas’s Defense:

This is the play I just showed above, but I want to do a deeper dive into it, because it’s one thing Orlando’s D did a very nice job of against La Tech:

Note that the play above is very similar to plays where our D had two picks last week (one was the pick 6 by Ossai that was called back; the other was Overshown’s diving interception late in the game).  If Burrow isn’t careful with this throw this weekend, it could be a big momentum swing for Texas.  Notice that here, the overhang defender drops straight back up the seam—covering grass—even though there’s no receiver in the vicinity.

Compare that to how Ossai makes a similar drop:

Compare J’Mar Smith’s “look off” of that route with Burrow’s.  They’re almost identical.  J’Mar focuses on the curl route developing in the middle of the field, thinking he’s frozen the safety.  It’s not clear whether he even sees Ossai.  Then he rifles the ball to the curl route at the sticks, but Ossai breaks on the ball as soon as it’s thrown.

In the Burrow version of the play, there’s even less deception, because the side of the field where the ball is thrown has only a single route being run.  Although Burrow “looks off” the safeties to that side of the field, there’s really no work he’s doing there, because there are no other routes that should have occupied them.

And here’s Overshown’s even better drop:

Note how fixated La Tech’s QB is on the overhang defender rushing from the edge.  He sees him come upfield and thinks he must have a wide open window to hit the flat route.  But Overshown beats the flat route to the spot of the ball.

 

What to Expect from LSU’s Defense:

You’ve heard a lot about LSU’s defense this week.  Most of it is true.  Their LBs and secondary are really fucking fast and they hit really fucking hard.

 

Defensive Backs:

I’ll start with Safety, because Grant Delpit is the real deal.  Watch him run this play down (he’s standing right next to the official, about 9 yards off the ball and shaded over the strongside guard):

(That probably should’ve been a late hit, but still)

I mean, fuck.

The other safety is Ja’Coby Stevens who I would’ve talked about more if Grant Delpit weren’t on the team:

LSU’s secondary philosophy (at least against GSU) was to stop the run at all costs, play lock-down D with the corners and have the safeties keep everything in front of them and not miss tackles.  Sound familiar?

LSU starts true freshman Derek Stingley, who also had punt/kick return duties for them.  He held up fine against Georgia Southern’s wholly inept attack, but how will he do manned up on Collin Johnson? 

 

Linebackers:

LSU’s DL does such a good job of occupying blockers that LSU’s LBs often get a free run into the hole.  Look at how early the WLB (Damone Clark, 35) gets to the hole. 

But he stops his feet and catches the RB in the hole, rather than running through the hole and causing a TFL.

Defensive Line:

Rashard Lawrence is a stud.  We better hope Parker Braun is ready to pass protect at a high level, so this doesn’t happen:

Glen Logan is the other DE in the 3-4 front.  He missed some tackles against GSU:

The nose tackle is Shelvin Tyler and is number 72.  He looks like the kind of defensive lineman who should be wearing number 72, too:

Chaisson is the rush LB (think Ossai’s role).  He gets talked about a lot, especially on here, given his recruiting history.  He’s   Still, we should definitely block him:

The DL is very large, though, and susceptible to draws/screens.  Although when we run a draw, we have to hope our running back does not become a Dead, like this GSU player (Chaisson on the hit):

 

Conclusion:

Unsurprisingly, LSU’s defense is really stout.  It’s secondary, especially, can really fly around and make plays.  Our coaches need to make sure Sam doesn’t take a clean shot from Delpit or Chaisson (who will both, by the way, definitely make dirty hits:

Already pointed out the Delpit late hit above, but here it is again:

And check out the crown of Chaisson’s helmet here:

 

Aranda’s defense looks A LOT like Texas’.  That shouldn’t surprise anyone.  But where Texas’ D-line is built to be a super quick, attacking and stunting line, LSU’s is designed to hold up against the Big run-centric OL of the SEC.  Can Texas take advantage of that by getting the lines moving laterally to wear out or negate LSU’s strengths?  And even if they can, how does Texas neutralize LSU’s speed at safety?

I think back to the ways Gundy and Holgorsen attacked Orlando’s offense last year (lots of outside zone; lots of RPO routes premised on making safeties choose between run and pass responsibilities; and forcing one-on-one mismatches in the passing game through formation choices).  Will Herman force LSU to pick their poison the same way?  Do we have enough RB talent to spam LSU with the outside zone that oSu and WVU hammered Texas with?  Can Texas keep the pocket clean long enough for Sam to let LSU’s defense overpursue and find the open man?

Those are all of the questions for Texas’ O against LSU’s D.  But flipping the script:  how the fuck is LSU going to score points on Texas?  LSU’s O is a horrible mismatch for what Orlando does with his defense, and the number of times they were forced to throw the ball against GSU may indicate some systemic problems with the run game install this year.  LSU’s attempt to “revolutionize” their offense by installing decade-old RPOs that have already been schemed over by DCs should terrify no one.

I am so fucking excited for this game.

Texas 28 – LSU 13.

[Burt Macklin 18989]

Good stuff. I think their OL is really going to struggle with our quick, slanting DL and front 7. They gave up a lot of TFLs to GA Southern and I expect they’ll give up even More to us.

Their defense has great speed, but they tend to over pursue and sellout to the run. They’re not used to as much misdirection or trickery as Texas sees all the time in the Big 12. The RPO we ran to Jake Smith against LA Tech May produce a huge play against LSU. We definitely need to do a lot of RPOs and misdirection to keep their defenders guessing. 

[Katfid54 8591]

Just now, Burt Macklin said:

Good stuff. I think their OL is really going to struggle with our quick, slanting DL and front 7. They gave up a lot of TFLs to GA Southern and I expect they’ll give up even More to us.

Watching the film, I was absolutely shocked at how poor their run blocking was against GSU. 

Just now, Burt Macklin said:

Their defense has great speed, but they tend to over pursue and sellout to the run. They’re not used to as much misdirection or trickery as Texas sees all the time in the Big 12. The RPO we ran to Jake Smith against LA Tech May produce a huge play against LSU. We definitely need to do a lot of RPOs and misdirection to keep their defenders guessing. 

To your second point, we spammed bubble to Duvernay so many times against La Tech (especially in the opening drive), I wonder if Herman's first play is a fake bubble, fly route to Eagles?

Chip Kelly used to spam Bubble to set it up and he'd then fake the bubble and hit the fly route like this:

[SDG 3319]

I saw on the Twitter that Burrow has only had 1 QBR over 100 against ranked competition since arriving at LSU (AtM i think).  I know you didn’t do any research, but is there any truth to this claim?  

[Katfid54 8591]

1 minute ago, SDG said:

I saw on the Twitter that Burrow has only had 1 QBR over 100 against ranked competition since arriving at LSU (AtM i think).  I know you didn’t do any research, but is there any truth to this claim?  

Maybe

[Burt Macklin 18989]

12 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

Watching the film, I was absolutely shocked at how poor their run blocking was against GSU. 

To your second point, we spammed bubble to Duvernay so many times against La Tech (especially in the opening drive), I wonder if Herman's first play is a fake bubble, fly route to Eagles?

Chip Kelly used to spam Bubble to set it up and he'd then fake the bubble and hit the fly route like this:

Good call on that one. I definitely think Herman establishes some base plays against LA Tech for which he has extra wrinkles to use against LSU. Herman knows if he can generate even one big play through playcalling, then that could be the difference in the game. I think we have a lot more to unveil in the RPO game (Thanks Fedora and Coleman!) and LSU is the perfect team to use it against.

I’d also love to see us run counter first half and then run the pop play to the TE that Riley does so effectively with OU in the second half after Aranda’s spent all half time yelling at them about giving up yards on the counter.

[Katfid54 8591]

7 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Good call on that one. I definitely think Herman establishes some base plays against LA Tech for which he has extra wrinkles to use against LSU. Herman knows if he can generate even one big play through playcalling, then that could be the difference in the game. I think we have a lot more to unveil in the RPO game (Thanks Fedora and Coleman!) and LSU is the perfect team to use it against.

I’d also love to see us run counter first half and then run the pop play to the TE that Riley does so effectively with OU in the second half after Aranda’s spent all half time yelling at them about giving up yards on the counter.

I'm definitely expecting a pop pass seam route to Bewwer for a TD or two.

[Foosters 17725]

21 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

I'm definitely expecting a pop pass seam route to Bewwer for a TD or two.

I think the last time this play was successful was in Dallas to Jermichael Finley.

[SDG 3319]

43 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

Maybe

I misremembered the 100 thing but directionally had it right.

I have not verified any of these numbers and Ketch so take them with a grain of salt.  

 

[Beau Vine 53978]

2 hours ago, SDG said:

I saw on the Twitter that Burrow has only had 1 QBR over 100 against ranked competition since arriving at LSU (AtM i think).  I know you didn’t do any research, but is there any truth to this claim?  

I'll tell you if you can tell us the formula for QBR.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

2 hours ago, Katfid54 said:

Chip Kelly used to spam Bubble to set it up and he'd then fake the bubble and hit the fly route like this:

Used to always drive me insane watching Oregon under Chip, because there was always a WR running completely uncovered somewhere. How the fuck you manage to so consistently get the D to commit unforced errors just boggled my mind. The fact that I've always hated Oregon didn't help.

[Katfid54 8591]

Just now, Walden Ponderer said:

Used to always drive me insane watching Oregon under Chip, because there was always a WR running completely uncovered somewhere. How the fuck you manage to so consistently get the D to commit unforced errors just boggled my mind. The fact that I've always hated Oregon didn't help.

Yep.

That's the point of the counter/complimentary play, right? If every play you run looks exactly the same, the defense THINKS it knows what's going on and starts trying to cut corners to shut down the play they think is coming. So they abandon their assignments because they think they know what they're doing and how to stop what they think is coming. And then, oops, the slot receiver is running wide open down the seam. 

[Burt Macklin 18989]

5 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Used to always drive me insane watching Oregon under Chip, because there was always a WR running completely uncovered somewhere. How the fuck you manage to so consistently get the D to commit unforced errors just boggled my mind. The fact that I've always hated Oregon didn't help.

Someone should tell UCLA’s coach about this magical scheme that has WRs running everywhere. I bet they could really benefit from implementing such a scheme.

[Katfid54 8591]

Just now, Burt Macklin said:

Someone should tell UCLA’s coach about this magical scheme that has WRs running everywhere. I bet they could really benefit from implementing such a scheme.

They're going to need to find a quarterback, first. 

[blacklab 11843]

This is illegal man downfield on #73,

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

7 minutes ago, blacklab said:

This is illegal man downfield on #73,

Sure but how could the ref ever see it?

[Sgt Hulk 13642]

Dude coulda caught that pass lol

[jinx 2635]

I'm just impressed that Katfid could differentiate enough of these players to post.  Nice work!

[Katfid54 8591]

22 minutes ago, blacklab said:

This is illegal man downfield on #73,

Egregiously. Good catch. Hope Herman sees that and tells the refs to watch it on Saturday. 

[blacklab 11843]

actually, it's illegal man downfield, holding and offensive pass interference.

[Enchubben 5509]

Wait til LSU sees the rare defensive holding on a running play. 

[Burt Macklin 18989]

30 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

Wait til LSU sees the rare defensive holding on a running play. 

There was a defensive holding called on the Packers DT tonight.  It took me right back to the OSU game.

[DayHeGeaux 72]

4 hours ago, Katfid54 said:

My post from last week about La Tech was generally well-received, so I wanted to do a post about LSU.  Plus, inviting the mouthbreathing Tiger fans squatting on our boards to read 2,000 words might occupy them from now until game time.

 

As with last time, my analysis is flawed and underresearched.  I watched a single LSU game—LSU vs. Georgia Southern’s matchup from last week, and I turned it off when LSU took their starters out.  Here were my takeaways:

 

What to expect from LSU’s offense?

 

Much ink has been spilled about LSU’s offseason offensive “turnaround” and hiring of a glorified grad assistant from LSU.  I’m not going to rehash their staff, scheme, or those details.  Instead, I’ll get right to the personnel.

 

I will say that one thing that was apparent from watching the film was how much more tempo LSU ran their offense with this year.  There was no huddling and an apparent emphasis on moving very quickly offensively.

 

 

 

Quarterback:

 

Everyone knows LSU’s QB is Joe Burrow.  But what is he?  Is he a poor, Cajun (tautological?) man’s version of Sam Ehlinger?  Is he the dregs of Ohio State’s necrosis under Urban Meyer?  Is he a dark horse for the Heisman and possibly the best QB in the SEC?  These questions and more…

 

What did I see last week?  Frankly, Burrow is extremely accurate in the short passing game.  He showed nice accuracy a few times on the Power/Slant RPO that LSU ran several times

 

He hit a really nice backshoulder throw on a switch route to take LSU up 21-0:

 

Burrow has a strong preference for waiting for plays to develop deep, then hitting wide open check down reads, if he’s given time and space to do so.

 

Seriously, if Orlando decides to bring pressure, our D better get to the QB quickly, because Burrow is more than happy to pick up 5 or 6 yards on check downs.

 

Burrow’s arm strength is a question mark.  He does not have a cannon and his deep throws flutter and fail on him.  There were times against GSU that Burrow had a receiver wide open downfield, but his passes took so long to get to his target that defenders were able to catch up to the receiver to break up the pass

 

If he does not have an open receiver, he’s not great at deciding to throw the ball away or try to pick up a few yards on the ground.  He will try to force balls into tight windows, if he doesn’t have a wide open checkdown he can find:

 

 

 

Running Backs:

 

LSU’s starter snaps against GSU went to Clyde Edwards-Helaire (22) and Lanard Fournette (27).

 

Edwards has some wiggle to him, great burst, and decisive cuts.  But he’s not a big tackle breaker or anything otherworldly:

 

Fournette appears to be LSU’s version of Kyle Porter:

 

Let’s hope he gets starter carries again this week.

 

As mentioned above, Burrow really leaned on the RBs in the checkdown passing game—much more so than in the running game which (as discussed below) wasn’t great against GSU.  They also ran several RB screens.  Here's one to Lanard Fournette:

 

Seriously, doesn’t he just look and run and get tackled like Kyle Porter?

 

Here's some more screenage:

 

 

Offensive Line:

 

Surprisingly, given everything I’d heard about LSU’s O-line’s strengths and weaknesses, LSU’s OL actually kept a cleaner pocket in pass pro than they did a good job opening up running lanes.

 

LSU struggled running the ball all night.

 

But Burrow had plenty of time to throw.

 

With that said, if LSU’s OL has one big weakness, it’s the immobility of their offensive tackles

 

Same play from All-22:

 

Potential for Texas’s Defense:

 

This is the play I just showed above, but I want to do a deeper dive into it, because it’s one thing Orlando’s D did a very nice job of against La Tech:

 

Note that the play above is very similar to plays where our D had two picks last week (one was the pick 6 by Ossai that was called back; the other was Overshown’s diving interception late in the game).  If Burrow isn’t careful with this throw this weekend, it could be a big momentum swing for Texas.  Notice that here, the overhang defender drops straight back up the seam—covering grass—even though there’s no receiver in the vicinity.

 

Compare that to how Ossai makes a similar drop:

 

Compare J’Mar Smith’s “look off” of that route with Burrow’s.  They’re almost identical.  J’Mar focuses on the curl route developing in the middle of the field, thinking he’s frozen the safety.  It’s not clear whether he even sees Ossai.  Then he rifles the ball to the curl route at the sticks, but Ossai breaks on the ball as soon as it’s thrown.

 

In the Burrow version of the play, there’s even less deception, because the side of the field where the ball is thrown has only a single route being run.  Although Burrow “looks off” the safeties to that side of the field, there’s really no work he’s doing there, because there are no other routes that should have occupied them.

 

And here’s Overshown’s even better drop:

 

Note how fixated La Tech’s QB is on the overhang defender rushing from the edge.  He sees him come upfield and thinks he must have a wide open window to hit the flat route.  But Overshown beats the flat route to the spot of the ball.

 

 

 

What to Expect from LSU’s Defense:

 

You’ve heard a lot about LSU’s defense this week.  Most of it is true.  Their LBs and secondary are really fucking fast and they hit really fucking hard.

 

 

 

Defensive Backs:

 

I’ll start with Safety, because Grant Delpit is the real deal.  Watch him run this play down (he’s standing right next to the official, about 9 yards off the ball and shaded over the strongside guard):

 

(That probably should’ve been a late hit, but still)

 

I mean, fuck.

 

The other safety is Ja’Coby Stevens who I would’ve talked about more if Grant Delpit weren’t on the team:

 

LSU’s secondary philosophy (at least against GSU) was to stop the run at all costs, play lock-down D with the corners and have the safeties keep everything in front of them and not miss tackles.  Sound familiar?

 

LSU starts true freshman Derek Stingley, who also had punt/kick return duties for them.  He held up fine against Georgia Southern’s wholly inept attack, but how will he do manned up on Collin Johnson? 

 

 

 

Linebackers:

 

LSU’s DL does such a good job of occupying blockers that LSU’s LBs often get a free run into the hole.  Look at how early the WLB (Damone Clark, 35) gets to the hole. 

 

But he stops his feet and catches the RB in the hole, rather than running through the hole and causing a TFL.

 

Defensive Line:

 

Rashard Lawrence is a stud.  We better hope Parker Braun is ready to pass protect at a high level, so this doesn’t happen:

 

Glen Logan is the other DE in the 3-4 front.  He missed some tackles against GSU:

 

The nose tackle is Shelvin Tyler and is number 72.  He looks like the kind of defensive lineman who should be wearing number 72, too:

 

 

Chaisson is the rush LB (think Ossai’s role).  He gets talked about a lot, especially on here, given his recruiting history.  He’s   Still, we should definitely block him:

 

The DL is very large, though, and susceptible to draws/screens.  Although when we run a draw, we have to hope our running back does not become a Dead, like this GSU player (Chaisson on the hit):

 

 

 

Conclusion:

 

Unsurprisingly, LSU’s defense is really stout.  It’s secondary, especially, can really fly around and make plays.  Our coaches need to make sure Sam doesn’t take a clean shot from Delpit or Chaisson (who will both, by the way, definitely make dirty hits:

 

Already pointed out the Delpit late hit above, but here it is again:

 

And check out the crown of Chaisson’s helmet here:

 

 

 

That shouldn’t surprise anyone.  But where Texas’ D-line is built to be a super quick, attacking and stunting line, LSU’s is designed to hold up against the Big run-centric OL of the SEC.  Can Texas take advantage of that by getting the lines moving laterally to wear out or negate LSU’s strengths?  And even if they can, how does Texas neutralize LSU’s speed at safety?

 

I think back to the ways Gundy and Holgorsen attacked Orlando’s offense last year (lots of outside zone; lots of RPO routes premised on making safeties choose between run and pass responsibilities; and forcing one-on-one mismatches in the passing game through formation choices).  Will Herman force LSU to pick their poison the same way?  Do we have enough RB talent to spam LSU with the outside zone that oSu and WVU hammered Texas with?  Can Texas keep the pocket clean long enough for Sam to let LSU’s defense overpursue and find the open man?

 

Those are all of the questions for Texas’ O against LSU’s D.  But flipping the script:  how the fuck is LSU going to score points on Texas?  LSU’s O is a horrible mismatch for what Orlando does with his defense, and the number of times they were forced to throw the ball against GSU may indicate some systemic problems with the run game install this year.  LSU’s attempt to “revolutionize” their offense by installing decade-old RPOs that have already been schemed over by DCs should terrify no one.

 

I am so fucking excited for this game.

 

Texas 28 – LSU 13.

 

LOL. You did this whole exposè on LSU’s defense and then ask this: how the fuck is LSU going to score points on Texas?

LOL!

[Katfid54 8591]

6 hours ago, DayHeGeaux said:

LOL. You did this whole exposè on LSU’s defense and then ask this: how the fuck is LSU going to score points on Texas?

LOL!

You've pretty clearly never watched a Tom Herman called offense. That dude can scheme at least 14 points out of thin air.

[DayHeGeaux 72]

5 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

You've pretty clearly never watched a Tom Herman called offense. That dude can scheme at least 14 points out of thin air.

Maybe against UGA and the Big12, that remains to be seen against LSU. 

BTW, I did see the KSU game last year.

[boilerhorn 1334]

13 hours ago, SDG said:

I misremembered the 100 thing but directionally had it right.

I have not verified any of these numbers and Ketch so take them with a grain of salt.  

 

The numbers are pulled directly from ESPN's 2018 game logs for Burrow.  Ketch did about 3 minutes of "work" to get those numbers.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/3915511/type/college/year/2018

Edited September 6, 2019 by boilerhorn

[Katfid54 8591]

Just now, boilerhorn said:

Ketch did about 3 minutes of "work" to get those numbers

Ketch immediately after those three minutes:

[S11 16]

14 hours ago, SDG said:

I saw on the Twitter that Burrow has only had 1 QBR over 100 against ranked competition since arriving at LSU (AtM i think).  I know you didn’t do any research, but is there any truth to this claim?  

Gotta think a limited scheme impacted that.   It’ll be interesting to see how 2019 differs in December.

[Katfid54 8591]

22 minutes ago, S11 said:

Gotta think a limited scheme impacted that.   It’ll be interesting to see how 2019 differs in December.

Did the "scheme" against GSU really look that different from years past?  Other than that the rushing attack looked like absolute shit, and Burrow took very few snaps from under center?

[S11 16]

48 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

Did the "scheme" against GSU really look that different from years past?  Other than that the rushing attack looked like absolute shit, and Burrow took very few snaps from under center?

Uptempo and more RPO.

I think Texas can stop them but it should be a little easier sledding for the QB than the dinosaur they had last season.

[Vertigo 20265]

12 hours ago, blacklab said:

This is illegal man downfield on #73,

He was clearly running a clearing dig route. 

[Katfid54 8591]

9 minutes ago, S11 said:

Uptempo and more RPO.

I think Texas can stop them but it should be a little easier sledding for the QB than the dinosaur they had last season.

Good point on the tempo.  That was a HUGE difference in what I saw from GSU.  Texas fans will tell you that coupling super high tempo without great results can lead to some disasters, though (see, e.g., Texas' Hurry Up and Go Three and Out Offense against Notre Dame in 2016).

Would need to do some digging into last year to see whether the pass concepts shown against GSU were really different from what LSU has historically shown.  The RPO action they hit for the first TD has been a CFB staple for almost a decade now, so I would be stunned if that wasn't already in LSU's repertoire.

[Vertigo 20265]

4 hours ago, DayHeGeaux said:

Maybe against UGA and the Big12, that remains to be seen against LSU. 

BTW, I did see the KSU game last year.

You mean to tell me that you clowns are discounting the team that was within 1 throw of a NC two years ago, and had just as good of a team last year yet narrowly missed the playoffs? The team that actually won their division in your overrated shit conference while you guys have done exactly jack shit except set offensive football back two decades over the past 5-7 years?

Sure you beat them too last year at home, but so what? Either it is the mighty SECSECSEC or it isn't. You are contradicting yourself by throwing the number two team in your conference in with us "lowly B12 schools". Figure it the fuck out you inbred twit. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Vertigo

[sushihorn 3233]

1 hour ago, boilerhorn said:

The numbers are pulled directly from ESPN's 2018 game logs for Burrow.  Ketch did about 3 minutes of "work" to get those numbers.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/3915511/type/college/year/2018

Not only that but he's using a deceptive stat without providing context.  ESPN's Adjusted QBR for Kyler Murray last season was 95.4 - so falling short of 100 isn't any sort of indictment.  Burrow is not a great QB but that stat only tells us he's not VY.

[Katfid54 8591]

2 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

27 minutes ago, S11 said:

Uptempo and more RPO.

Would need to do some digging into last year to see whether the pass concepts shown against GSU were really different from what LSU has historically shown.  The RPO action they hit for the first TD has been a CFB staple for almost a decade now, so I would be stunned if that wasn't already in LSU's repertoire.

Here's the exact same switch route combination run in last year's Fiesta Bowl against UCF that LSU scored on against GSU:

UCF:

GSU:

 

Here's an inside zone/WR screen RPO package against UCF, too.  Maybe this isn't a true RPO, but it is certainly supposed to look like one:

 

[Katfid54 8591]

And here's a similar RPO to the one LSU scored on, from their 2018 game against Rice--although the run action against Rice was inside zone and against GSU was power:

Rice:

GSU:

[Katfid54 8591]

Just found the actually identical RPO play against La Tech in 2018 (with a give read against La Tech):

La Tech:

GSU:

Edited September 6, 2019 by Katfid54

[Burt Macklin 18989]

Well, @Katfid54‘s clearly in midsession form. I had the same thought but didn’t go back and look for clips from LSU last year, because, well, I just didn’t care enough. But this year’s LSU offense reminds me a lot of what we heard about Texas 2015. Old OC who can’t adapt claims to have new-fangled spread tempo attack, but it’s pretty much just window dressing for the same old system. We’ll see tomorrow if it really is an all new offense that will make LSU a true title contender or if it’s more of the same.

i also think LSU could tie the rope around their own neck if they try to run the same tempo as GA Southern but can’t sustain drives. LSU’s defense got noticeably more fatigued late in games in the latter part of the season last year when the offense sped up more consistently. I think it all comes down to the short passing game. If Orlando schemes soft on those plays like he often does, then LSU can probably sustain drives, even if they’re not scoring every drive, and we’ll be in some trouble. If Orlando mixes looks and schemes neutral numbers on the WR screens and makes LSU run it or throw deep, then LSU will probably lose the turnover battle and the game.

[Katfid54 8591]

3 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I think it all comes down to the short passing game. If Orlando schemes soft on those plays like he often does, then LSU can probably sustain drives, even if they’re not scoring every drive, and we’ll be in some trouble. If Orlando mixes looks and schemes neutral numbers on the WR screens and makes LSU run it or throw deep, then LSU will probably lose the turnover battle and the game.

I think that's part of it.  The other part is going to be Burrow carrying the ball 15-20 times.  In high leverage situations last year, they opened up defenses by running him.  They'll do the same tomorrow.  I think the biggest key to the game is whether our safeties make him pay when he tucks the ball and runs.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5342]

I hope Owens gets a few snaps maybe in short yardage/goal line situations. 

[Katfid54 8591]

4 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

8 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I think it all comes down to the short passing game. If Orlando schemes soft on those plays like he often does, then LSU can probably sustain drives, even if they’re not scoring every drive, and we’ll be in some trouble. If Orlando mixes looks and schemes neutral numbers on the WR screens and makes LSU run it or throw deep, then LSU will probably lose the turnover battle and the game.

I think that's part of it.  The other part is going to be Burrow carrying the ball 15-20 times.  In high leverage situations last year, they opened up defenses by running him.  They'll do the same tomorrow.  I think the biggest key to the game is whether our safeties make him pay when he tucks the ball and runs.

I'll add that I'm very excited to see Overshown run down and shitblast Burrow a few times tomorrow.  I think LSU will think twice about running Burrow after that happens a few times in the first quarter.

[S11 16]

1 hour ago, Katfid54 said:

Good point on the tempo.  That was a HUGE difference in what I saw from GSU.  Texas fans will tell you that coupling super high tempo without great results can lead to some disasters, though (see, e.g., Texas' Hurry Up and Go Three and Out Offense against Notre Dame in 2016).

Would need to do some digging into last year to see whether the pass concepts shown against GSU were really different from what LSU has historically shown.  The RPO action they hit for the first TD has been a CFB staple for almost a decade now, so I would be stunned if that wasn't already in LSU's repertoire.

Given the matt Canada micromanaging debacle I wouldn’t be surprised to see him limit it.   However you in subsequent posts found examples of them using it.   I haven’t watched a ton of them but it wasn’t common at all in the games I watched which admittedly are very few.  Granted LSU isn’t a team I normally focus on since they don’t play many Big 12 teams.

Tempo should be a double edged sword.

 

as someone who has spent a lot more time looking at the two sec teams: how does LSU and UGA’s respective rpo usages compare?

[Katfid54 8591]

1 minute ago, S11 said:

as someone who has spent a lot more time looking at the two sec teams: how does LSU and UGA’s respective rpo usages compare?

Georgia has a significantly more advanced offense than LSU does and a significantly better quarterback, with the caveat that Burrow's legs were the difference in many games last year, where he eked out enough tough yards on the ground for LSU to move the chains and win.  He also helped soften defenses up to the run, by forcing the defense to account for himself.

[Burt Macklin 18989]

30 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

I think that's part of it.  The other part is going to be Burrow carrying the ball 15-20 times.  In high leverage situations last year, they opened up defenses by running him.  They'll do the same tomorrow.  I think the biggest key to the game is whether our safeties make him pay when he tucks the ball and runs.

Yeah. That will be important for them, but I’m not too worried about it. He’s slower and weaker than Sam. If we completely fail to account for him, he’ll hurt us but otherwise I don’t see it being a huge issue.

[bigcigar 1161]

30 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Yeah. That will be important for them, but I’m not too worried about it. He’s slower and weaker than Sam. If we completely fail to account for him, he’ll hurt us but otherwise I don’t see it being a huge issue.

Hopefully he doesn’t pull an OSU corndog on us. That was painful to watch.