Orgeron Out-Coached Herman

[SaucyJack 3488]

14 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Herman took three points off the board for us and gifted LSU with 7 at the end of the first half.

(I am not counting the Ingram drop -- only the second FG Herman turned his nose up at, and then running no clock on that shitty drive and giving it back to Burrow and co. with way too much time.)

 

X100

Did the same shit in the Big 12 Championship game last year. Good news is we’re on schedule with roster rebuild.

For me, nothing is changed as I saw us as a nine win team going in, so I have that going for me.

Hook’em.

[formermav43 4606]

All this angst because conventional wisdom says you kick the fg...because that’s whats always done, of course. Going for it was the right call. The play calls (especially the 2nd opportunity) are another story, but “taking the points” isn’t the smart play.

[USNALonghorn 5078]

I wasn’t against going for it on 4th at the goal line the FIRST time. If KI catches that softball throw, we establish an early lead. Our defense was still fresh and it gives us a psychological edge. I absolutely agree that we should’ve taken the 3 points after the INT, however. Like someone else said, Tom looked like a losing gambler at that point.

[Funk Doctor Spock 12210]

We can spin this however we want, but if Ingram caught that pass, this is a different game. Yes, I'm still pissed and my vagina is still hurting. 

[Rimbo 25936]

14 hours ago, bigcigar said:

Let’s shut up about how much of an idiot he is. His staff just obliterated ours.

No no no. We had tons of great play calls. Our execution just stunk. Which is experience and talent as much as, if not more than, coaching.

[DaysOff 7951]

All this angst because conventional wisdom says you kick the fg...because that’s whats always done, of course. Going for it was the right call. The play calls (especially the 2nd opportunity) are another story, but “taking the points” isn’t the smart play.

4th and 1 from your own 7 and go for it.

[sushihorn 3233]

IMHO there were 2 critical strategic errors by the coaches:

1) Abandoning misdirection when it was working so well.  In principle, when facing someone larger, stronger, slower and with less endurance you want to force them to run, to change directions and get them frustrated.  Make them feel that all of their strength and effort are accomplishing nothing.  Compound the fatigue with demoralization.  That's exactly what the opening drive did to Georgia's defense.

LSU's defense was clearly hyped up and over pursuing badly.  The setup was perfect and the first 2 plays gashed them with misdirection.  Then Herman dials up a low-percentage deep shot.  A combination of a misread by Duvernay and a good tackle by Delpit on the next play forces a punt.  Sustaining drives was more important than getting quick points early on.  If the opening drive goes 10-12 plays, Texas likely breaks LSU's defense in the 2nd quarter instead of the 3rd.

This is compounded in goal to go on the next 2 drives.  LSU's DL is still fresh.  Why run straight at them?  It literally plays to their strength AND gives them confidence from facing (and beating) the expected instead of confusion and frustration.  The defense's over focus on the run became clear with the 4th down PA pass but execution failed.  That play or similar concepts like pop pass to the TE or fake lead block and pass to the flats was available on every down in goal line.

2) Getting cute with the pass rush.  Occasional 3 man rushes while dropping 8 are OK if you can occasionally bring that 3rd rusher from an unexpected angle.  There was too much vanilla base 3 man rush, which just gave Burrow time and confidence.  I even saw a 2 man rush at one point.  As if to overcompensate for that, Orlando brought a lot of 6 man pass rush as well.  That got home once but also clarified the coverage read too quickly.  It was kind of a bipolar performance: either and easy read of the coverage or an easy read of the pressure.

What seemed most effective overall was 4 and 5 man pressures.  Those allowed a good mix of unexpected angles while still keeping some doubt about the scheme in the secondary.  It seemed like Orlando almost gave up by using so much cover 4 late to protect the CBs.  Static 2 high safety look made it easy to read BOTH the rush and the secondary when only 4 defenders were near the LOS.  That was the trap Georgia Southern fell into last week with similar results.  And Orlando again overcompensated with max pressure on 3rd and 17 instead of 4 or maybe 5 pass rushers to force a quick throw while leaving enough behind to clean up. 

[CurlyDumps 4471]

Lol @ some of you retards arguing Herman should have “taken the points.” Kicking a FG inside your opponent’s 5 is outdated, out of touch, and wrong. Which is why smart, well-coached teams don’t do it anymore. 

Unless you’re trying to take a 2 score lead with minimal time left or some such shit. Anyway, look forward to the weekly whinging every time it doesn’t work.

 

[hornhorn 100]

10 hours ago, NateHitch said:

I've barely skimmed though the overreaction thread but I want to contribute loud words and anger about a team that is replacing the vast majority of their defense and took a very talented team to the wire.  Those 500 yards we put up were complete bullshit and in no way indicative of the direction this team is headed because our recruiting is pure shit.  I hate everything and life sucks, fire everyone because we lost by 7 to a higher ranked team.  We clearly played to win rather than played not to lose and that's not acceptable.  

 

[closetohumping 17442]

14 hours ago, thepop said:

Is something wrong with his hands?

Yes, bad coaching.  

[Coach pop a bitch 5459]

I was really drunk last night.  Up until the last lsu touchdown I believed we would pull it out. Orlando sucked ass but Herman lost this game. Not because of the goal line stops but because of that bull shit he pulled at the end of the 1st half. 

[hookem48 4687]

1 hour ago, ButtFumble said:

yea he is still coaching like a G5 head coach where you need to come out and make some statement and get the other team all worried instead of matching up and playing a full game

instead of showing confidence in the D by going for it he left them out to dry as the weaker unit on the team right now and put the burden of making stops on them instead of giving them points from the many times there was a chance to get some points

that going for it shit in the 1st quarter is for G5 teams and teams in bowl games way beyond where they should be not a Texas team at home in a regular season game

LSU is better than us at every position group, we did need to make a statement and just the fact that Herman did go for it made a statement. Love having a coach with some balls.

[SaucyJack 3488]

2nd & 9 at TEX 26

(1:30 - 2nd) Sam Ehlinger pass incomplete to Keaontay Ingram

Anybody have a chart to confirm this was the right play call in the situation? Asking for a friend.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by SaucyJack

[Texasrocks 2134]

I don't have a problem with going for it on 4th down. I have a problem with the play calling. Herman wanted to make a statement by running it in. It failed and he ended up making a statement, just not the one he wanted to make.  

[VaLonghorn99 341]

4th down decision is always hard. It depends upon gut feeling regarding your o-line. The D-line has nothing to lose except being given the opportunity to be heroes. Have been on both sides watching our D be the heroes in the past and yesterday seeing our O being put to shame.

Generally speaking, if they couldn't get it done in 3 tries, why take a chance when you're only down by 3 and the game is just starting. I think there was way too little to gain to take that risk in 1st half.... twice

[jinx 2635]

9 hours ago, Zavala said:

Couple of holds and a couple of roughing the passers. I have a hard time believing that every big call didn't go our way the whole night. Anytime LSU needed a bail out they got it.

Glad I'm not the only one who thought that.

PI could have been called against LSU at least five more times.  

The roughing call tied to what should have at least been a reviewed catch pissed me off.  

When the refs added to the free "cramp" timeouts by reviewing Duvernay's catch right after ignoring the LSU questionable catch I was furious.  

Seemed like super shitty officiating.  I mean they tried to throw a flag for illegal touching on a ball that went almost 15 yards on the inside kick.

I hate using the refs as an excuse, but this game reminded me of the Big 12 championship with the obvious one sided nature of the calls.  

[hookem48 4687]

7 hours ago, Coach pop a bitch said:

I was really drunk last night.  Up until the last lsu touchdown I believed we would pull it out. Orlando sucked ass but Herman lost this game. Not because of the goal line stops but because of that bull shit he pulled at the end of the 1st half. 

you mean trying to score with 1:40 left?

[hookem48 4687]

5 hours ago, Texasrocks said:

I don't have a problem with going for it on 4th down. I have a problem with the play calling. Herman wanted to make a statement by running it in. It failed and he ended up making a statement, just not the one he wanted to make.  

what statement do you think it made?

[n64ra 1084]

23 hours ago, bigcigar said:

Let’s shut up about how much of an idiot he is. His staff just obliterated ours.

No shit. The only thing you have to say is "3rd and 17" to prove this point.

[SaucyJack 3488]

1 hour ago, jinx said:

Glad I'm not the only one who thought that.

PI could have been called against LSU at least five more times.  

The roughing call tied to what should have at least been a reviewed catch pissed me off.  

When the refs added to the free "cramp" timeouts by reviewing Duvernay's catch right after ignoring the LSU questionable catch I was furious.  

Seemed like super shitty officiating.  I mean they tried to throw a flag for illegal touching on a ball that went almost 15 yards on the inside kick.

I hate using the refs as an excuse, but this game reminded me of the Big 12 championship with the obvious one sided nature of the calls.  

Actually, successive plays and ABC misidentified replay of the roughing call. Saw the game live and just watched replay.

Also just read this:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/to-avoid-conflicts-of-interest-time-has-come-for-neutral-referees-at-nonconference-games/

[justhookit 4191]

2 hours ago, jinx said:

Glad I'm not the only one who thought that.

PI could have been called against LSU at least five more times.  

The roughing call tied to what should have at least been a reviewed catch pissed me off.  

When the refs added to the free "cramp" timeouts by reviewing Duvernay's catch right after ignoring the LSU questionable catch I was furious.  

Seemed like super shitty officiating.  I mean they tried to throw a flag for illegal touching on a ball that went almost 15 yards on the inside kick.

I hate using the refs as an excuse, but this game reminded me of the Big 12 championship with the obvious one sided nature of the calls.  

It didn’t end up making a difference at all, but the Duvernay review was even more fucked up than that. He caught the ball for a 1st down but the clock never stopped. 10-15 seconds run off and then they finally stop it for the review. I think ok great, after they see it was a catch they will also correct the time. Nope. Then when play does resume they wind the clock again and we inexplicably take about 10 more seconds to get the play off. 

[Chooky 13307]

5 hours ago, hookem48 said:

what statement do you think it made?

"My anxiety is here.  It's queer.  Get used to it."

Edited September 9, 2019 by Chooky
and that's fine

[sushihorn 3233]

re: the thread title, I don't think Orgeron outcoached Herman at all.  LSU started with a small talent advantage and a somewhat larger advantage in experience.  Herman coached well enough to completely offset that gap.  Despite the well known errors, the game still came down to any one of a handful of plays on the field.

I suppose teaching dirty tactics could be considered "coaching" in some circles.  And O certainly did that.  The clearly scheduled "injuries" on defense only were the most obvious example.  LSU stopped bothering to even try legitimate pass pro and coverage techniques sometime during the 3rd Q.  They were also seemingly coached to throw out a leg to trip (leg whip, 15 yd PF) when they missed their assignments.  Clearly counting on the SEC refs to turn a blind eye.  Most egregious example was Delpit: after getting steamrollered by Duvernay, he throws the leg out like a little bitch trying to trip #6 because he sure couldn't tackle him.  That's blatant and 15 yards added to the end of the run: