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2021 ATH Ja’Tavion Sanders

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closetojumping

closetojumping 62,746

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Before we all go too crazy deifying Julius Peppers let's not forget that Robbie fucking Doane held him without a sack and to maybe one pressure in Austin, much to @closetojumping's consternation. 

Hahahahaha. Holy shit. The “smooth buttfucking” that never happened. I still remember Robbie Doane’s dad angrily contacting me before the game and then telling me he’d be a 1st round pick when responding after the Texas win. 

 

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Vertigo

Vertigo 20,290

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, closetojumping said:

Hahahahaha. Holy shit. The “smooth buttfucking” that never happened. I still remember Robbie Doane’s dad angrily contacting me before the game and then telling me he’d be a 1st round pick when responding after the Texas win. 

 

That may be up there with the Dan Gilbert drunken tweet that Cleveland would win a championship before LeBron after he went to Miami prognostication. 

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WinningIsHard

WinningIsHard 4,044

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Laga4 said:

How did you come up with that reply from my post.  L O L

You put freshman on the field who line up in the trenches when that position group isn’t very good. If he can’t block a DE or physical LB then trotting him out there basically tells the defense you’re passing when he’s in. Brewer and Wiley are more physical. That doesn’t mean sanders isn’t really athletic or a 5 star. If sanders has to play before he can get stronger then our te group is ass my dude. 

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squeegeedegg

squeegeedegg 723

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, WinningIsHard said:

You put freshman on the field who line up in the trenches when that position group isn’t very good. If he can’t block a DE or physical LB then trotting him out there basically tells the defense you’re passing when he’s in. Brewer and Wiley are more physical. That doesn’t mean sanders isn’t really athletic or a 5 star. If sanders has to play before he can get stronger then our te group is ass my dude. 

Juan Davis wins the "most physical" award out of the entire TE group.  Wiley and Brewer really are pretty soft in their own rights, and I confess I haven't zeroed my eyes in on Helm enough to get an opinion.  I have seen Sanders repeatedly miss blocks though, and yet he's slowly getting more run during special teams, which is traditionally where coaches gauge a new player and reward effort.  Sanders needs to look like a dog wherever he is, and so far looks less than that.  Doesn't mean he won't figure it out in the months or years to come, 95% of college football players go through this process.  Sticking him at DE and saying "now we'll have a pass rush!" Is asinine

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Hank_Hill

Hank_Hill 18,880

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Laga4 said:

I never said Sanders should play DE,  I never said he should play TE.  What I did say was if,  I repeat if TE is his best position then I guess he was overrated.

I'll stand by that and let the coaches figure out where to play him. 

This still makes no sense. Him not playing right now has nothing to do with his athleticism and potential. Our OL is getting butt fucked every week we don’t need a freshman TE out there who can’t block yet.

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squeegeedegg

squeegeedegg 723

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Laga4 said:

I guess Sanders was overrated if TE was his best position and he can't sniff the field here.  

The guy was rated due to potential at multiple positions.  Same as a Bru McCoy or BJ Foster.  These are high risk high reward ATH and many times take a good while to perfect a trade on the field at a blue blood P5.  In the case of the above, potential didn't bear out to the expected ceiling.  Sanders is extremely early in his development and I would argue the ball is more in his court than it is on the coaches at this point

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Laga4

Laga4 1,270

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, squeegeedegg said:

The guy was rated due to potential at multiple positions.  Same as a Bru McCoy or BJ Foster.  These are high risk high reward ATH and many times take a good while to perfect a trade on the field at a blue blood P5.  In the case of the above, potential didn't bear out to the expected ceiling.  Sanders is extremely early in his development and I would argue the ball is more in his court than it is on the coaches at this point

Right.  Pretty sure he was rated as an athlete. If he is making the call on where to play and that is not his best position then that's another argument.

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WinningIsHard

WinningIsHard 4,044

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Laga4 said:

Right.  Pretty sure he was rated as an athlete. If he is making the call on where to play and that is not his best position then that's another argument.

Wait so now your argument is he was overrated as an athlete because he can’t play meaningful snaps at TE as a true freshman? Bold move cotton 

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Handcruser

Handcruser 2,805

Posted
Posted
This still makes no sense. Him not playing right now has nothing to do with his athleticism and potential. Our OL is getting butt fucked every week we don’t need a freshman TE out there who can’t block yet.

But hold on -

He was a 5 star and had unbelievable highlights catching the ball in HS. I don’t think we’d be asking him to block as a tight end.

What if we had an innovative OC, known for his play calling and scheme, suffering from a lack of quality pass catchers - could he “possibly” find a way to get someone with those kinds of skills on the field?
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TexasRenegade

TexasRenegade 2,449

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Handcruser said:


But hold on -

He was a 5 star and had unbelievable highlights catching the ball in HS. I don’t think we’d be asking him to block as a tight end.

What if we had an innovative OC, known for his play calling and scheme, suffering from a lack of quality pass catchers - could he “possibly” find a way to get someone with those kinds of skills on the field?

So your suggestion with our Swiss cheese oline is to use a te only on passing plays and not ask him to block?

 

Opposing d coordinators would support this strategy I am certain.

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Coach pop a bitch

Coach pop a bitch 5,474

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Handcruser said:


But hold on -

He was a 5 star and had unbelievable highlights catching the ball in HS. I don’t think we’d be asking him to block as a tight end.

What if we had an innovative OC, known for his play calling and scheme, suffering from a lack of quality pass catchers - could he “possibly” find a way to get someone with those kinds of skills on the field?

Sark proven he will play freshmen in games and make it a priority to get them the ball. Hes just  not ready. 

Edited by Coach pop a bitch
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TommyGufano

TommyGufano 6,021

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

What if we had an innovative OC, known for his play calling and scheme, suffering from a lack of quality pass catchers - could he “possibly” find a way to get someone with those kinds of skills on the field?

Maybe they will. Gonna need someone who moves the chains on 3rd and medium-long with Whittington out and I don't see any obvious candidates

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WinningIsHard

WinningIsHard 4,044

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Laga4 said:

Reading is hard.

TE is his best position, he’s not overrated. He was better than everyone in high school because he’s huge and has good hands. He never learned to block and he’s probably not very strong over 4 quarters of a football game. In college he’s just like every one else on the field, athletic. DE is a waste of time because it’s even harder to learn to play correctly than TE. It doesn’t matter that 9.95ers say sanders doesn’t want to play this or that, that’s all bullshit for clicks. If you play a position your entire life and are taught that position correctly that will translate to being able to play as a freshman in college. 

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Handcruser

Handcruser 2,805

Posted
Posted
Maybe they will. Gonna need someone who moves the chains on 3rd and medium-long with Whittington out and I don't see any obvious candidates

TexasRenegade will be along shortly to tell you how we’re not allowed to replace a wr with a te and how we can only have 1 te on the field at a time and how we can only use the te for pass protection.

It’s a hot take from 1977. Get ready.
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Handcruser

Handcruser 2,805

Posted
Posted
You want to put sanders out in the slot as a true freshman because he made insane highlight catches in high school. 
 
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No, because he was a really good receiver in HS.

From 247-

Legitimate high-major recruit on both sides of the ball. Owns requisite size/frame of high-major edge defender or flex tight end. Ample snaps both ways and production to match. Impressive functional athleticism and play speed relative to size. Consistent hands catcher as an outside receiver who wins matchups against cornerbacks. Regularly shows enough speed to outrun high school DB's.
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NorLa Horns

NorLa Horns 1,458

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Atticus said:

This. 

Prince Dorbah is the one I'm wondering about. Is he hurt?

Hes still too light to play on the line. Might be a physicality/ aggression thing also. 

Theres never been  a whisper if moving him off the ball. Probably a speed / coverage thing. 

 

Sounds like he might not be a fit for what we do 

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Codaxx

Codaxx 5,766

Posted
Posted

Sanders was a 5 star based on his upside on defense. Could he add to the pass rush? Sure. Hell, he maybe the best rusher. That is a pretty low bar though. The issue is he would probably just add to the issues vs the run. The real problem is he doesn’t want to play defense, so I am not sure he will have the focus to help on defense. This is an Overshown problem part 2.

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Hank_Hill

Hank_Hill 18,880

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Handcruser said:


But hold on -

He was a 5 star and had unbelievable highlights catching the ball in HS. I don’t think we’d be asking him to block as a tight end.

What if we had an innovative OC, known for his play calling and scheme, suffering from a lack of quality pass catchers - could he “possibly” find a way to get someone with those kinds of skills on the field?

Well, we caught a lot of balls yesterday. We did not block a lot of linemen. I think the priority is pretty clear.

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WinningIsHard

WinningIsHard 4,044

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Handcruser said:


No, because he was a really good receiver in HS.

From 247-

Legitimate high-major recruit on both sides of the ball. Owns requisite size/frame of high-major edge defender or flex tight end. Ample snaps both ways and production to match. Impressive functional athleticism and play speed relative to size. Consistent hands catcher as an outside receiver who wins matchups against cornerbacks. Regularly shows enough speed to outrun high school DB's.

Since this evaluation he has added 35 lbs to his frame. I couldn’t find a verified 40 time for him but it’s tough to believe he’s going to line up in the slot at 256 lbs and help Casey thompson much. That sounds like a man herman offense tbh. 

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WinningIsHard

WinningIsHard 4,044

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Posted
20 minutes ago, futureman said:

strongly disagree. 

DE is a violent position that normally faces the best O-lineman in football routinely. It takes a certain mind set and obsessive determination to get good at it even if you enjoy it. Sanders would have to learn how to play the position as a freshman in college basically, but if anybody could do it then Bo Davis would be the man. TE on the other hand seems less complicated. Just my opinion tho bro 

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Atticus

Atticus 3,976

Posted
Posted
DE is a violent position that normally faces the best O-lineman in football routinely. It takes a certain mind set and obsessive determination to get good at it even if you enjoy it. Sanders would have to learn how to play the position as a freshman in college basically, but if anybody could do it then Bo Davis would be the man. TE on the other hand seems less complicated. Just my opinion tho bro 

He would be an Edge and that is PKs position group
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futureman

futureman 22,485

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, WinningIsHard said:

DE is a violent position that normally faces the best O-lineman in football routinely. It takes a certain mind set and obsessive determination to get good at it even if you enjoy it. Sanders would have to learn how to play the position as a freshman in college basically, but if anybody could do it then Bo Davis would be the man. TE on the other hand seems less complicated. Just my opinion tho bro 

I mean defensive line is violent but it’s basically gap control or inside/outside contain. mix in a few stunts but it’s not that complicated. violent, not complicated. learning how to be a competent blocker is every bit as violent and more taxing mentally, plus you have to understand the nuance of route running and finding soft spots in the zone, option routes, etc. it’s difficult. 

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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 48,110

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

If it’s not that hard, why is he 5th string?

It’s not to understand why he is at TE. I feel like you’re smart enough to get that in context. 
 

he never blocked in HS. He was his teams primary weapon along with bowman, I believe. 

Edited by SydneyCarton
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TexasRenegade

TexasRenegade 2,449

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Handcruser said:


Where did I type that? Oh, I didn’t.

Try again?

I'm sorry that was inferred.  Our issue with receivers is largely their route running and ability to create separation....

 

So your solution is to line someone up who is slower than any of ourother wide receivers and hasn't learned to run good routes at wide receiver?

 

Maybe I should reevaluate that receiving only tight end idea....

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