Voluntary childlessness

[EuroHorn 3265]

1 hour ago, mchookem said:

no lie, there was a period from about age 32-36 when it got hard. really hard. i wasnt sure we were going to make it.

Was that your gangbang phase?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

No kids and happy with my decision. If I had kids, I imagine I would also be happy with that decision as well.

I also don’t see how not having kids could be a regret. To me, a regret is something on the lines of passing on going to the 2006 Rose Bowl. Kids are a decision on a whole other level. 

 

[Wally Fairway 5550]

5 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

Kids are the best thing ever.

Correction - grandkids are the best things, kids are a pain the ass

[Iceman 2713]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

No kids and happy with my decision. If I had kids, I imagine I would also be happy with that decision as well.

I also don’t see how not having kids could be a regret. To me, a regret is something on the lines of passing on going to the 2006 Rose Bowl. Kids are a decision on a whole other level. 

 

The regret I have seen in people comes from wanting kids, but then being unable to have them.  I know more than a handful whose total brood was adopted too, but that's not for everyone either.

It's been my experience that most folks who haven't had kids by their choice are pretty fucking good with it.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Iceman

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

11 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Before you accuse us of being "selfish," ask yourself how many people have kids thinking the kids will be taking care of them someday?

 

I know of exactly zero. It’s a joke people say. Sorry you didn’t get it. 

[pearlandhorn 3269]

Wife and I knew we wanted at least 2 when we got married.

We had one, looked at each other, and said fuck having any more. I love my son...but dear lord was it tough. On her and me. She had a bad delivery and ended up with an emergency c-section and ended up with MRSA and internal issues. About a year ago (kid just turned 3), she got her tubes tied at 30 years old.

My two SILs are older (one is mid 40s and the other is mid 30s). I would feel sorry for their kids if they had any.

Edited September 13, 2019 by pearlandhorn

[Homercles 10205]

I’m fully convinced having children is the meaning of life...on a foundational level in that living beings reproduce, that’s what separates us from everything else...however viruses and Sooners are debatable.  

However I will never judge or question why anyone would chose not to, and my heart breaks for those that want to but are unable.  It is hugely impactful to your lifestyle, relationships and ability to focus on yourself.  Easily the hardest, most frustrating yet rewarding thing I’ve ever done.  

Then again we are in one of those peak moments of having two where one is a 3yo drama queen and the other is a 5yo adjusting to kindergarten...there are few easy moments.  In addition we are kinda in the middle among our friends with half having older, self-sufficient kids (which comes with its own challenges for sure) and the rest are just starting to have babies.  When we go to parties with them I look in envy as the ones with older kids bring in a cooler saying ‘go have fun, will tell you when we are leaving’ and the ones with a single baby say ‘you hold the baby, I’m going to grab a beer and socialize until it’s your turn’. 

Of course there’s also the parents with twin 7yo boys who let them run wild, break things and suffer no consequences...choosing to let everyone else correct their behavior...and seem perfectly happy   That’s the kind of parenting that gets you left out of social circumstances ‘on accident’ frequently   

I heard a joke once that ‘everyone who drives slower than you is an idiot and everyone who is faster is crazy’.  I sometimes feel that way with kids in that everyone with fewer kids has it easier whereas those with more are crazy.  My wife and I watch the 3yo screaming because we dared to start peeling her banana for her while the 5yo is pouting because he had a bad day at school so we took away his tablet and say ‘we are totally fine with just two’.  

To each their own.  

Edited September 13, 2019 by Homercles

[Aqua Buddha 14597]

I like how the OP was about people choosing not to have kids but most of the posts are from people that had kids.

Something else I don't understand is people who have kids late in life.  It usually ends up being some 40-50 year old dude on his second marriage to a younger woman and they have a kid when he's 50 or something.  Twenty years later at HS graduation, he's 70.  No thanks.

[Guest Lobo]

Calling people who choose not to have children "Selfish" is beyond idiotic.  "Selfish" is thinking you're so fucking special, the world needs a genetic offspring of you and your mate.  

I adamantly didn't want children for a long time.  Now we have two.  Now I am happy.  

[XYZ 2154]

I have three, and childlessness sounds awesome.

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

DINKS have no sense of humor. When they go off on how great their decision is to have no kids, try telling them that you agree that they would make lousy parents. After all, it’s almost impossible to be good at something that requires selflessness if you don’t want to do it. I said that...once. The wife insisted she would be a GREAT mom.

I probably should’ve kept my lips zipped, but they were being pretty judgmental of couples - like us - with multiple kids.

And no, I don’t think most childless couples are that way. 

[CooterBrown 18013]

I absolutely adore my kids and am glad I had them but if I had to do it over again and couldn't be guaranteed those same two kids, there's no fucking way I'd have kids.   

[Sandman 3403]

I never really wanted kids. My first wife did, so I went along with it. She said "What's the point in getting married if you're not having kids?" and I didn't disagree. I figured that's just what married couples did, have some kids. Wound up having twins, the wife turned into a psychotic bitch. I was full of much regret. Not so much now, only when my kids do stupid shit. 

I don't blame anyone that decides to remain childless, raising kids is not for everyone. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

37 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

DINKS have no sense of humor. When they go off on how great their decision is to have no kids, try telling them that you agree that they would make lousy parents. After all, it’s almost impossible to be good at something that requires selflessness if you don’t want to do it. I said that...once. The wife insisted she would be a GREAT mom.

I probably should’ve kept my lips zipped, but they were being pretty judgmental of couples - like us - with multiple kids.

And no, I don’t think most childless couples are that way. 

Telling any woman she is/would be a lousy mom is never going to end up well.  But she should have also been treading lightly about talking other parents as well. In general I stay away from discussing mistakes that parents are making. 

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Telling any woman she is/would be a lousy mom is never going to end up well.  But she should have also been treading lightly about talking other parents as well. In general I stay away from discussing mistakes that parents are making. 

Like I said, I did that once lol. I didn’t really like them much, anyway, so no loss. I can be an asshole. That’s why I’m here. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I like how the OP was about people choosing not to have kids but most of the posts are from people that had kids.

Something else I don't understand is people who have kids late in life.  It usually ends up being some 40-50 year old dude on his second marriage to a younger woman and they have a kid when he's 50 or something.  Twenty years later at HS graduation, he's 70.  No thanks.

I’ve always thought the older guy on his second marriage doesn’t really want the kids but rather she does and it’s part of the deal.

In some ways the old dad can offer some benefits for the kid that the younger dad may not but agree it’s not ideal for the dad and kid. Still for the kid, it was this or nothing.

['stache 21816]

You have to be a real dick to be judgmental on either side. To call either "selfish" is ridiculous. Both sides have pros and cons with aspects that can be characterized as "selfish," but you choose one path or another and I don't think the "selfish" part of it makes any difference. 

I, for one, am an overthinker which makes me horribly indecisive. It is a flaw I recognize and try my best to overcome. I met my wife at 18, we became serious 3 years later, got married at 24, and had kids at 30. It all seems pretty normal, but I seriously questioned whether to have kids. I think my answer was always going to be yes , but of course my brain got in the way and made me question it. Ultimately, based on my own personality, I am 100% certain that I would be a clinically depressed loner without my wife and kids so I made the right choice. It sucks sometimes for sure but I know the alternative, for me personally, would be horrible. And has been said many times, the love you have for the children you raise is unparalleled in this life. 

But I will always worry about the future my kids face. We are shitting up the planet and too many people don't care. I read some about world politics and it always strikes me that democracy is fragile. With today's cloak room climate, I worry if a free and prosperous middle class will be available to my children. But I also know that past generations had worries too about how the future might change.

So I will not judge you for having or not having kids. I will, however, judge you if you are an objectively shitty parent (which has to be a pretty high level of shittiness for me to have such a judgment), and I will not tolerate anyone who is vocally critical of others for having/not having kids. 

Edited September 13, 2019 by 'stache

[utee94 15823]

I do have kids and am delighted with it.  

I have several friends who are married and by choice did not ever have children and they seem to be happy with that as well.  I certainly don't think any less of them.  I don't think they believe any less of me.  It seems weird to judge people based on such weighty life decisions, that's not my style anyway.

[Moby Ric 2058]

I have kids, and I love them all.  However, if I had never had kids I could afford to have a Ferrari for every day of the week in my garage today.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

13 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I’m with this guy

Not a guy but if I were, I would still feel the same. You all are smart and know that there is a give and take with sharing information between friends, but a lot of times, friends need to know when to be respectful of boundaries. As a side note, information is power and I have witnessed people abusing that 'in the name of friendship.' (It's Mean Girls 101) It is a dynamic that can be common among family members too, although I was fortunate enough to be raised in a family that viewed that as unacceptable.

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

We had 2.  Thought about having a third. The wife was ready I wasn't, then I was ready the wife wasn't.  By the time we were both on the same page the kids were out of diapers.... End of the thought of having a third kid. That and the zone coverage instead of man to man, and the additional costs.  

Looking back now I wish wed had that third, but we have friends who had a third, and their were health issues. We had 2 healthy, great kids, no reason to press our luck.

You either want them or you don't.  It's not for everyone. I always knew I'd want kids if I got married.  I'm now able to be friends with our kids instead of having to be a parent, and it's a great experience.

[fattyflattie 4639]

2 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Something else I don't understand is people who have kids late in life.  It usually ends up being some 40-50 year old dude on his second marriage to a younger woman and they have a kid when he's 50 or something

Reason #1 I chose a vasectomy over her tubes tied.  Hope all goes well with the wife, but you never know.  But we’re not playing that particular game.   

[Al_4_ISU 12463]

11 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

I’ll wait for the involuntary thread 

I'll split the difference here.

Wife and I are in the second round of IVF.  If this doesn't work, we're done lighting money on fire trying to reproduce.  We're still debating whether we would go childless or adopt.  I have a nephew and niece (3 and 6 months) that I really enjoy spending time with, but I do want to experience parenthood.  The IVF process is hell, particularly for the woman, and losing all of our embryos in the first round was a real struggle.

We have friends who are childless in their late 40's, and they have a really great life.  I look at them and think I could be really happy childless if this doesn't work out.  By the same token, the majority of my friends either have or intend to have children and I look at their life and come to the same conclusion about kids, and I've always wanted the experience of raising a family.

As someone who is currently involuntary, I've seen enough from my friends who are voluntary to consider the voluntary route if I'm forced to choose between it or adoption.  I'm truly undecided at the moment, and don't really intend to tackle that until I've seen through the current process.

The real irony is that almost without exception the people I know who choose to be voluntarily childless would be far better parents than people who spit out children like a litter of feral hogs.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5400]

I had no idea there were any women on this site. 

Wife and I are going on 13 years, no kids. Every now and then her shitty friends with kids try to intervention her, but other than that there's really no more discussing or examining merits etc... The choice is very clear for both of us. 

We both enjoy our freedom and money way too much. Couple that with a lack of any desire to raise a little shit(s), and so far so good. 

I'd rather live my prime years exactly how we want, then have fear about regrets when we're old and everything hurts and life is shitty anyway. 

Plus, this planet and society in general is on a fast-track to destroy itself, so there's really no good reason to introduce any more people into this mess. 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

 

9 hours ago, Axiom of Choice said:

 I come from a long line of people who all had kids.  

Doesn't everyone who exists?

2 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Something else I don't understand is people who have kids late in life.  It usually ends up being some 40-50 year old dude on his second marriage to a younger woman and they have a kid when he's 50 or something.  Twenty years later at HS graduation, he's 70.  No thanks.

This is essentially me, except we adopted.  I've had kids in my house constantly since 1983, and my daughter will probably be living with me until I die.  It hasn't been an easy journey, but I can't say that I would do anything different if given the choice.

['stache 21816]

24 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I'll split the difference here.

Wife and I are in the second round of IVF.  If this doesn't work, we're done lighting money on fire trying to reproduce.  We're still debating whether we would go childless or adopt.  I have a nephew and niece (3 and 6 months) that I really enjoy spending time with, but I do want to experience parenthood.  The IVF process is hell, particularly for the woman, and losing all of our embryos in the first round was a real struggle.

We have friends who are childless in their late 40's, and they have a really great life.  I look at them and think I could be really happy childless if this doesn't work out.  By the same token, the majority of my friends either have or intend to have children and I look at their life and come to the same conclusion about kids, and I've always wanted the experience of raising a family.

As someone who is currently involuntary, I've seen enough from my friends who are voluntary to consider the voluntary route if I'm forced to choose between it or adoption.  I'm truly undecided at the moment, and don't really intend to tackle that until I've seen through the current process.

The real irony is that almost without exception the people I know who choose to be voluntarily childless would be far better parents than people who spit out children like a litter of feral hogs.

I'm sorry to hear that you're going through that, sincerely. My wife and I struggled for some time but are very fortunate we never had to go the IVF route. I know plenty of people who are going through that now. My wife and I suffered through several miscarriages between the first and second, which was difficult, but we always tried to be grateful that we already had one who was perfect. It finally took, and it all worked out as I love the age difference between my 7 and  almost 2 year old. 

Our current dilemma is that my wife wants a third but the doctor told us very forthrightly that she should not try to be pregnant again due to the several miscarriages and the fact that our latest was 10 weeks premature. Her body just can't support another pregnancy. She has already brought up surrogacy or adoption. Again, I can be very indecisive, but I'm pretty sure I will strongly say we should stop with the two we have. I worry every day that if it comes to a head it could put a strain on our marriage. We'll cross that bridge if and when necessary.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

Adoption is certainly not something to be undertaken lightly, and can come with a whole lot of problems on top of just raising kids, but I can honestly say it's been the most satisfying thing I've ever done in my life.

[DaysOff 7951]

I have 3 because I wanted 2.

[Huckleberry 32861]

15 hours ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

What Aqua Buddha said. Pushing 50 with 17 years of marriage to my lovely bride. Neither of us ever wanted kids. We love our nieces and nephews to pieces. Life's good.

 

Wait a minute. Didn't you miss a Longhorn game to watch Twilight several years back? So you were in your 40s and missed football for Twilight. And there was no teenage daughter involved.

Holy shit.

[TexasBeta 1261]

I have 3 because I wanted 2.

Welcome to my world. Let’s have another - twins

[wild_turkey 3159]

Lots of good responses here. I'll chime in with my own situation but wanted to let the discussion flow without steering it any certain direction in the OP.

Wife and I dated throughout our time at UT, got married young, now married 14 years in our mid-30s. It seems crazy in hindsight that we got married so young but it's worked out incredibly well for us. We are best friends, spend a high amount of quality time together, have similar interests, travel as often as possible, have sex very often, have good jobs, take care of ourselves and our finances, support each other when life throws a curveball, and rarely fight about anything of significance. No marriage is perfect but it feels like ours is pretty damn close and we're thankful for that. 

Neither of us has a strong desire to have kids. If we had a kid at some point we'd embrace it and I like to think we'd be good parents, but we have never actively tried for that. I like think our reason is simple - we are very happy and content with just each other. It doesn't feel like there is anything missing so why change it? In fact, when we have a busy stretch of obligations with work, family, or friends, we both start to get a little cranky of the lack of time for just us. Introducing a child into the mix will automatically drain us of that quality time together we value so much.

We are at a point where a lot of our friends have either had kids or are in the process of it. Within one of our social circles, there are 4 women who are currently pregnant. I'm truly happy for each of them, but you can probably imagine what it's like to hang out as a group right now. The conversations are 95% pregnancy or parenting until someone remembers we are sitting there nodding quietly, then decides it's important to ask for the 100th time when we are gonna join them. I can endure that, but it does get in your head to some degree, and I'm sure that's made me a little more sensitive or curious about this topic in general.

But for us it's an actual decision and we've openly discussed this choice over the years. We never had kids by accident and we never have kids because "that's what married couples do". We've devoted our lives to each other, and we've never had any desire to deviate from that. I can't predict the future and say that will never change, but if our childbearing years are gone and we start to get that itch, I suppose adoption is always on the table. Until then we will keep on keeping on.

[Guest Lobo]

Also, take a look around at not just your friends/network/neighbors, but your extended family---all the way out to second cousins.  See how many of them have done voluntary childlessness.  At that point, your judgement takes a turn.  When your own blood, even a couple degrees out from your immediate family, has chosen not to procreate...that means you come from a long line of dogshit.  Judge accordingly you sanctimonious asswipe.  

[Underdog 28653]

We wanted 2 no more than 3, ended up with 1.  Not ashamed to admit that he’s become more of a man than I’ve ever been and it’s been great to see his progression.  I think it’s safe to say that most parents if not all want to see their kids become better than themselves.  I was 25 when he was born and still young enough to hang with him during his formidable years and we did a good job not being helicopter parents when it came to sports, do wish we had been more stringent on his schooling but he’s done well for himself getting a doctorate in PT, recently married(also a PT).  

[BearSchlong 8098]

My current (2nd) wife is biologically unable to have kids. . .so when we married she threw her energy into being the best stepmom she could be.  She's actually on a plane right now to Mizzou to see my daughter for parents weekend. (I'm going next weekend for the KKG dad's and daughters weekend)

Wife also works for the state agency that protects children and holee shit, that right there is an argument for why many many many people should not have children.

Apparently the people with the greatest affinity for drugs/alcohol/physically and mentally abusive relationships don't give a shit about birth control, or worse - see more kids as an incentive for more benefits.

Of course it's impermissible to tell a CPS-involved mom "hey close your legs or buy some rubbers" - that's a fireable offense.

I greatly admire people with enough selflessness and resources who become adoptive parents or foster parents.

One argument against having kids is that you eliminate the risk that one day CPS shows up at your door with your 5 grandkids from 4 different fathers and says we've removed the grandkids, if you don't take them then they're going to be split up and placed with foster parents.

Apologies for borderline CR.  This is a good thread.

 

[BearSchlong 8098]

43 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Adoption is certainly not something to be undertaken lightly, and can come with a whole lot of problems on top of just raising kids, but I can honestly say it's been the most satisfying thing I've ever done in my life.

Bravo.

Wait, I thought you married them. . .you actually adopted them?

jk

[Helobious 9454]

I understand people who choose to not have kids. I don’t understand people who get married & choose to not have kids. What’s even the point. Although I guess it does make things easier come divorce time. 

[lemonlime 5503]

I used to really want kids.  But once I hit my late 30s and it hadn't happened, I decided to focus on other things.  Early 40s now, and if I had kids now (assuming it's even possible), I'd be close to the age my parents died at by the time they graduated from high school.   I'm sure I'd be happy if I had kids, but also happy with my life now.  More money, time to travel, when I moved no worries about school systems, etc.

[wild_turkey 3159]

21 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Also, take a look around at not just your friends/network/neighbors, but your extended family---all the way out to second cousins.  See how many of them have done voluntary childlessness.  At that point, your judgement takes a turn.  When your own blood, even a couple degrees out from your immediate family, has chosen not to procreate...that means you come from a long line of dogshit.  Judge accordingly you sanctimonious asswipe.  

Not sure who your post was directed at but no one seems judgmental here. I'm in the childless camp fwiw.

I just asked about judgment because I've sensed judgment from certain people in the real world when I've told them we don't plan to have kids. One person told me "Just know that we will still support y'all if you don't become parents." Wtf. I should've responded with "I'll still support you even though you don't like dogs."

[wild_turkey 3159]

1 minute ago, Helobious said:

I don’t understand people who get married & choose to not have kids. What’s even the point.

Spending your life with someone awesome is the point.

For me at least, procreation never has been and never will be the reason for marriage. In fact, I'm kinda sad for people that get married so they can have kids, and I know at least a couple. Their marriages, at least from the outside, seem boring af. 

[Quagmire 2147]

I understand people who choose to not have kids. I don’t understand people who get married & choose to not have kids. What’s even the point. Although I guess it does make things easier come divorce time. 

So the only reason for marriage is to make babies? Missed that in the handbook

[Al_4_ISU 12463]

32 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

My current (2nd) wife is biologically unable to have kids. . .so when we married she threw her energy into being the best stepmom she could be.  She's actually on a plane right now to Mizzou to see my daughter for parents weekend. (I'm going next weekend for the KKG dad's and daughters weekend)

Wife also works for the state agency that protects children and holee shit, that right there is an argument for why many many many people should not have children.

Apparently the people with the greatest affinity for drugs/alcohol/physically and mentally abusive relationships don't give a shit about birth control, or worse - see more kids as an incentive for more benefits.

Of course it's impermissible to tell a CPS-involved mom "hey close your legs or buy some rubbers" - that's a fireable offense.

I greatly admire people with enough selflessness and resources who become adoptive parents or foster parents.

One argument against having kids is that you eliminate the risk that one day CPS shows up at your door with your 5 grandkids from 4 different fathers and says we've removed the grandkids, if you don't take them then they're going to be split up and placed with foster parents.

Apologies for borderline CR.  This is a good thread.

 

These people are also seemingly never blessed with infertility.

[Al_4_ISU 12463]

12 minutes ago, Helobious said:

I understand people who choose to not have kids. I don’t understand people who get married & choose to not have kids. What’s even the point. Although I guess it does make things easier come divorce time. 

They want a monogamous relationship with tax breaks? 

My older childless friends have been married for 25ish years and have a great relationship.  I realize you don't need marriage to achieve that, but you don't need marriage to achieve parenthood either.

[Guest Lobo]

20 minutes ago, Quagmire said:

 

 

So the only reason for marriage is to make babies? Missed that in the handbook

 

 

I thought the only reason for marriage was to have someone right near constantly giving a play-by-play broadcast of the shit you're doing wrong.  And their family, your in-laws, provide color commentary when they decide to pop in at your worst times.  And yes, eventually a couple of wonderful little munchkins.  Which curiously means your in-laws visit less instead of more.  But that's another thread for another time.  

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

It's real purpose is to help you downsize by half when you accumulate too much stuff

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I’ve always thought the older guy on his second marriage doesn’t really want the kids but rather she does and it’s part of the deal.

In some ways the old dad can offer some benefits for the kid that the younger dad may not but agree it’s not ideal for the dad and kid. Still for the kid, it was this or nothing.

One of those benefits for me sure wouldn’t be playing catch. My shoulder needs more and more time to warm up as I get older. The kid would be chasing balls all over the place. 

We have a doctor friend who everyone thought was a lifelong bachelor. He was a playa until he met his current wife, 20 years younger than him. They had 2 boys when he was in his 50s, and he’s about as happy being a dad as a guy could be. He’ll be in his 70s at their high school graduation. I’m sure he gets called gramps all the time.

[housious 468]

6 hours ago, Wally Fairway said:

Correction - grandkids are the best things, kids are a pain the ass

Ha. I was about to mention that earlier. The best thing about having kids is that you might end up having grand kids. 

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

3 hours ago, 'stache said:

You have to be a real dick to be judgmental on either side. To call either "selfish" is ridiculous. Both sides have pros and cons with aspects that can be characterized as "selfish," but you choose one path or another and I don't think the "selfish" part of it makes any difference. 

I, for one, am an overthinker which makes me horribly indecisive. It is a flaw I recognize and try my best to overcome. I met my wife at 18, we became serious 3 years later, got married at 24, and had kids at 30. It all seems pretty normal, but I seriously questioned whether to have kids. I think my answer was always going to be yes , but of course my brain got in the way and made me question it. Ultimately, based on my own personality, I am 100% certain that I would be a clinically depressed loner without my wife and kids so I made the right choice. It sucks sometimes for sure but I know the alternative, for me personally, would be horrible. And has been said many times, the love you have for the children you raise is unparalleled in this life. 

But I will always worry about the future my kids face. We are shitting up the planet and too many people don't care. I read some about world politics and it always strikes me that democracy is fragile. With today's cloak room climate, I worry if a free and prosperous middle class will be available to my children. But I also know that past generations had worries too about how the future might change.

So I will not judge you for having or not having kids. I will, however, judge you if you are an objectively shitty parent (which has to be a pretty high level of shittiness for me to have such a judgment), and I will not tolerate anyone who is vocally critical of others for having/not having kids. 

In spite of what I’ve written in other posts, this fits with my overall philosophy on life choices. We all try to maximize our utility, and most of us don’t have kids because we think it’s our responsibility to society. Just like people choose to become social workers because it fulfills some deep desire to feel good about themselves. We all chase fulfillment, material or not. 

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

3 hours ago, Moby Ric said:

I have kids, and I love them all.  However, if I had never had kids I could afford to have a Ferrari for every day of the week in my garage today.

How many are in the repair shop?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

1 hour ago, wild_turkey said:

We are at a point where a lot of our friends have either had kids or are in the process of it. Within one of our social circles, there are 4 women who are currently pregnant. I'm truly happy for each of them, but you can probably imagine what it's like to hang out as a group right now. The conversations are 95% pregnancy or parenting until someone remembers we are sitting there nodding quietly, then decides it's important to ask for the 100th time when we are gonna join them. I can endure that, but it does get in your head to some degree, and I'm sure that's made me a little more sensitive or curious about this topic in general.

I got some years on you but one thing you may find is that if you never have kids, your range of friends will shift more to other people who also don't have kids. you don't have to give up being friends with the parents but you will do less and less with them.   Same with people that have kids and how they see less of friends who don't have them. Of course its also a natural progression that you go out less as you age, at least that is my experience.

[Al_4_ISU 12463]

18 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

In spite of what I’ve written in other posts, this fits with my overall philosophy on life choices. We all try to maximize our utility, and most of us don’t have kids because we think it’s our responsibility to society. Just like people choose to become social workers because it fulfills some deep desire to feel good about themselves. We all chase fulfillment, material or not. 

Random aside, but my god do a lot of people lose their shit when you point out that the most selfless helpful folks are simply doing the thing that makes them feel good.  It's a hell of a lot better for society than what a lot of people find makes them feel good, but at the very end of the wire we're all motivated by what makes us feel good.