Voluntary childlessness

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

21 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

I'm interested in peoples' thoughts on married couples who choose to not have children.

Have you chosen this path for yourself? If so then what were your reasons and how has that decision held up through the years? Any regrets down the road?

Do you have friends, family, or colleagues who have done this? Is your opinion positively or negatively impacted by their status as nonparents, or does that not enter the equation at all for you?

If you have a general positive or negative impression of this, then what factors into that? Morals, ethics, religion, impact on society, selfishness, narcissism, jealousy, etc?

We made this choice, but then had the other choice made for us anyway.  So there's that.

[Aqua Buddha 14610]

I wonder how many people regret having kids.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

Just now, Aqua Buddha said:

I wonder how many people regret having kids.

At some point in their lives?  100% I'd guess.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 hours ago, Liquor and Poker said:

At some point in their lives?  100% I'd guess.

Nah, never regretted it, but damn sure had some moments of WTF did we do to ourselves ??!

Edited September 13, 2019 by Onboard 2.0

[BabaYaga 15320]

3 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I wonder how many people regret having kids.

Never.  Of course I can only speak for myself.  I can't imagine a world without them.  That's me.  My wife and I are that same page, which is why we are together.  I wouldn't begrudge anyone choosing to NOT have kids, nor would that be my choice for a life partner either.  

I can say it breaks my heart seeing people not ready for kids having them.  Not ready emotionally.  Or having them thinking they are going to "fix" a part of your life that is missing.  People that abuse and berate their kids.  I see it in sports a lot.  Parents walking to the car tearing their kid a new one.  Screaming from the sidelines. 

Or the opposite - parents raising helpless children.  Kids that are emotionally and psychologically stunted from having parents do everything for them.  Retarding their development and nerfing their entire world.  Nothing you can do, but still.  

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

30 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Random aside, but my god do a lot of people lose their shit when you point out that the most selfless helpful folks are simply doing the thing that makes them feel good.  It's a hell of a lot better for society than what a lot of people find makes them feel good, but at the very end of the wire we're all motivated by what makes us feel good.

I guess my point is that an awful lot of people in human services do it because the positive feelings they get by doing good things for others outweighs the joy they get from material things.

My sister (RIP) was a professor of human services, and she told me more than once that she always told her freshman students that it will cost them 4 years and a lot of money to get a degree in human services, so they better find more fulfillment in helping others than making money. Otherwise, go to the local tech school and get a 1 or 2 year tech degree because you’ll make more money.

That being said, I admire the business owner who works his ass off to provide jobs just as much as the social worker who earns $15 an hour.

[Al_4_ISU 12485]

1 minute ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

I guess my point is that an awful lot of people in human services do it because the positive feelings they get by doing good things for others outweighs the joy they get from material things.

My sister (RIP) was a professor of human services, and she told me more than once that she always told her freshman students that it will cost them 4 years and a lot of money to get a degree in human services, so they better find more fulfillment in helping others than making money. Otherwise, go to the local tech school and get a 1 or 2 year tech degree because you’ll make more money.

That being said, I admire the business owner who works his ass off to provide jobs just as much as the social worker who earns $15 an hour.

I agree completely, and have arrived at the same conclusion.  I'm just saying I've been chastised for pointing it out, because it was taken as an attack on someone's altruistic nature.  I'm very thankful that there people in this world who get more joy out of helping others than accumulating material things.  

[wild_turkey 3182]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I got some years on you but one thing you may find is that if you never have kids, your range of friends will shift more to other people who also don't have kids. you don't have to give up being friends with the parents but you will do less and less with them.   Same with people that have kids and how they see less of friends who don't have them. Of course its also a natural progression that you go out less as you age, at least that is my experience.

I can unfortunately see the writing on the wall with regards to that. One of my closest lifelong friends had his first kid with a second on the way and he's practically disappeared. Every once in a while we get to hang out, but it requires 3-4 weeks advance planning for a 5 pm dinner and then they have to be home by 9 pm, because A) the sitter needs to leave and B) they are both exhausted. I'm happy that they're happy (at least I think they are?), but I don't envy them in the slightest and I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss our friends. But they have other priorities now and that's life.

But like I said, some of my favorite moments in life have been only my wife and myself, and other people entering the parenting phase doesn't change that for us. So I guess everyone gets what they really want in the end.

[housious 468]

42 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I wonder how many people regret having kids.

Your mom no doubt

[Iceman 2725]

52 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Random aside, but my god do a lot of people lose their shit when you point out that the most selfless helpful folks are simply doing the thing that makes them feel good.  It's a hell of a lot better for society than what a lot of people find makes them feel good, but at the very end of the wire we're all motivated by what makes us feel good.

Pornhub should get a Nobel Prize with that line of thought...

[Al_4_ISU 12485]

4 minutes ago, Iceman said:

Pornhub should get a Nobel Prize with that line of thought...

How many horrible acts have not happened because it's easier than ever to get your rocks off?

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

22 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

I'm interested in peoples' thoughts on married couples who choose to not have children.

Have you chosen this path for yourself? If so then what were your reasons and how has that decision held up through the years? Any regrets down the road?

Do you have friends, family, or colleagues who have done this? Is your opinion positively or negatively impacted by their status as nonparents, or does that not enter the equation at all for you?

If you have a general positive or negative impression of this, then what factors into that? Morals, ethics, religion, impact on society, selfishness, narcissism, jealousy, etc?

Yep.  Chose not to.  Tons of friends in Chicago that did the same.   

Absolutely love life and would have it no other way.  Have nieces I get to spoil and spend plenty of time with.  Wife has no desire either.  

Tell us what terrible people we are. 

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

4 hours ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

I had no idea there were any women on this site. 

Wife and I are going on 13 years, no kids. Every now and then her shitty friends with kids try to intervention her, but other than that there's really no more discussing or examining merits etc... The choice is very clear for both of us. 

We both enjoy our freedom and money way too much. Couple that with a lack of any desire to raise a little shit(s), and so far so good. 

I'd rather live my prime years exactly how we want, then have fear about regrets when we're old and everything hurts and life is shitty anyway. 

Plus, this planet and society in general is on a fast-track to destroy itself, so there's really no good reason to introduce any more people into this mess. 

My man.  

[Aqua Buddha 14610]

37 minutes ago, housious said:

Your mom no doubt

Your mom sure didn’t regret my mom having kids.....

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

30 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Random aside, but my god do a lot of people lose their shit when you point out that the most selfless helpful folks are simply doing the thing that makes them feel good.  It's a hell of a lot better for society than what a lot of people find makes them feel good, but at the very end of the wire we're all motivated by what makes us feel good.

I guess my point is that an awful lot of people in human services do it because the positive feelings they get by doing good things for others outweighs the joy they get from material things.

My sister (RIP) was a professor of human services, and she told me more than once that she always told her freshman students that it will cost them 4 years and a lot of money to get a degree in human services, so they better find more fulfillment in helping others than making money. Otherwise, go to the local tech school and get a 1 or 2 year tech degree because you’ll make more money.

That being said, I admire the business owner who works his ass off to provide jobs just as much as the social worker who earns $15 an hour.

[Gene Parmesan 4014]

28 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Yep.  Chose not to.  Tons of friends in Chicago that did the same.   

Absolutely love life and would have it no other way.  Have nieces I get to spoil and spend plenty of time with.  Wife has no desire either.  

Tell us what terrible people we are. 

Sparing the world another generation of sooners makes you great human beings.

[Chopper 17245]

My wife and I have been married 25 years next April, never had or wanted kids. Both sets of our parents were divorced so I know that colored our perception of family and children, but neither of us has that maternal/paternal drive. We have nieces and nephews and it's great to spend a little time with them. But when it comes time to send 'em home, we almost always mention how happy we are we didn't have our own kids. We have a great marriage, she's a great woman, we're both very happily married. We're halfway retired in our early 50s and don't have any financial worries. I can't imagine if we had made a different choice.  

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

49 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Sparing the world another generation of sooners makes you great human beings.

I figured that should get me some points.  Also, not all, but many wealthy parents end up with asshole kids...that's my nightmare.  Hated those soft kids growing up and I didn't want to sire any. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I figured that should get me some points.  Also, not all, but many wealthy parents end up with asshole kids...that's my nightmare.  Hated those soft kids growing up and I didn't want to sire any. 

That's a choice the parents make.  It's your job to make them pull their weight at home and academically, and put them in the right places where they don't become assholes, which unfortunately are many private schools in this country.

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

That's a choice the parents make.  It's your job to make them pull their weight at home and academically, and put them in the right places where they don't become assholes, which unfortunately are many private schools in this country.

Oh I totally agree.  My baby has been our business and we have a couple hundred very happy employees.  90% of them have kids and love their life.  That's enough for me.  When I'm dead and 6 feet under, I'll leave it to the lady...when we're both gone it's going to charity.  I can live with that.  I speak with others who consider that their personal nightmare.   As has been said many times on this thread, to each their own. 

A pretty good group of assholes around here when it comes down to it.  I'm gonna start drinking early.  Cheers

[sidis 9832]

i have kids. pros and cons to both paths.  one works for some, other works for others.  and for some, neither really works.

anyone who "judges" or "criticizes" someone else for a decision to have children or not have children is a complete nincompoop and is internally unhappy and looking to validate their decision and way of life since they lack confidence in their choices.  if you think someone is wrong for not wanting or having kids, you should kill yourself.  the opposite holds true as well.

love both my daughters immensely and all the cliches apply.  life is better with them for me.  there are also occasionally times where they are a giant pain in the ass and life would be more pleasant and simple if i didn't have to deal with their shit.  but they are both great kids that are unique and they add a certain richness to moments throughout my life experiences. 

i do think we have gotten to a pretty absurd place in terms of the way we (particularly upper-middle class white people) fucking worship our kids and feel compelled to make the entire universe about them.  it's a bit nauseating.  and whoever upthread talked about a challenge of being a child-less couple is an inevitable inclination to socially segregate with other childless couples, believe me, it sucks from the other direction as well.  some of those relationships suffer even though you don't want them to.  and then you look around and all your friends are parents with similar aged kids and all you do is talk about your fucking kids.  it takes effort to avoid that trap for sure.

[Underdog 28773]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Nah, never regretted it, but damn sure had some moments of WTF did we do ourselves ??!

....

[sidis 9832]

15 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I figured that should get me some points.  Also, not all, but many wealthy parents end up with asshole kids...that's my nightmare.  Hated those soft kids growing up and I didn't want to sire any. 

 

[MissingInAction 25187]

I have never been able to keep a woman around long enough for it to ever even be an option. My mother says I am romantically challenged.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21921]

I guess that's nicer than just telling you that you have a tiny pud

[HenryJames 66171]

I had a kid because the world needs more of me.

[6th Street 6508]

Not in the "never kids" camp but put it off until I was almost 38. Lived the city life and partied hard until it was time to throw in the towel. Didn't want to be the creepy old dude day drinking in the Marina dive bar or playing cornhole in Fort Mason.

Retired from the SF city life for the Chicago burbs and my life is a lot more chill. No more hangovers - instead I get to wake up at 6am and take my 18 mo old on my coffee runs and hit up the playground. Wife is cool enough to let me take several guys trips a year to let loose. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

5 minutes ago, Axiom of Choice said:

I don't know, but we could probably check for most people these days with modern computer technology.  But at a certain point going back there just won't be any records.  

 

I make it a point to never talk about my kids unless asked.  And even then I try to change the subject quickly.  Unless they are family or close family friends, chances are they don't really care and are just asking out of politeness.  

We for sure talked about our kids, but you have to know your audience.  Some people just don't care about your kids lives so you don't bother them with it.   

The folks with kids were usually the audience for kid talk. You're comparing notes most of the time.

[sidis 9832]

6 minutes ago, Axiom of Choice said:

I don't know, but we could probably check for most people these days with modern computer technology.  But at a certain point going back there just won't be any records.  

 

I make it a point to never talk about my kids unless asked.  And even then I try to change the subject quickly.  Unless they are family or close family friends, chances are they don't really care and are just asking out of politeness.  

or because they are similarly stuck at some event centering around children in which they don't know anyone and so small talk has to center around the only shared element bringing you together.  but at the end of the day, that's on "you" and the other people.  you're adults, figure out how to communicate meaningfully.  i try to do the same thing but am not always successful.

[Deej 76920]

The only regret I have with not having children is all the jobs around the house and yardwork that I have to do. 

[Iceman 2725]

6 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I wonder how many people regret having kids.

On the contrary, I hate even thinking of my life without them.  Absolutely NOTHING in life has been more rewarding to me than being a dad.

I say that with the utmost sincerity.  Husband is a close as fuck second, but being a dad is incomparable...

 

Full disclosure: we had kids early.  We are empty nesters at 48 and 45 YO.  It is awesome!!!

Edited September 14, 2019 by Iceman

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

36 minutes ago, Deej said:

The only regret I have with not having children is all the jobs around the house and yardwork that I have to do. 

Oh, indentured servitude was a nice perk.

[Aqua Buddha 14610]

43 minutes ago, Iceman said:

On the contrary, I hate even thinking of my life without them.  Absolutely NOTHING in life has been more rewarding to me than being a dad.

I say that with the utmost sincerity.  Husband is a close as fuck second, but being a dad is incomparable...

 

Full disclosure: we had kids early.  We are empty nesters at 48 and 45 YO.  It is awesome!!!

Thank you for a totally irrelevant response.  I asked if anyone regretted kids and you chimed in to say how much you loved yours.  That’s great and all and I’m sure you’re a great dad but that’s completely irrelevant.

it’s like if I went to the Shaggy Dad thread or whatever it’s called and talked about how great it  was that I took a last minute vacation without getting a babysitter.

[Iceman 2725]

1 minute ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Thank you for a totally irrelevant response.  I asked if anyone regretted kids and you chimed in to say how much you loved yours.  That’s great and all and I’m sure you’re a great dad but that’s completely irrelevant.

it’s like if I went to the Shaggy Dad thread or whatever it’s called and talked about how great it  was that I took a last minute vacation without getting a babysitter.

Sorry i offended you.

 

Well. Not really.  Your response it off the charts cunteriffic, but carry on.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Thank you for a totally irrelevant response.  I asked if anyone regretted kids and you chimed in to say how much you loved yours.  That’s great and all and I’m sure you’re a great dad but that’s completely irrelevant.

it’s like if I went to the Shaggy Dad thread or whatever it’s called and talked about how great it  was that I took a last minute vacation without getting a babysitter.

Somebody didn't get enough hugs as a child.

I think we're getting some in sight into why he's asking if people regret not having kids......

[GhostOfTomJoad 9351]

1 hour ago, Deej said:

The only regret I have with not having children is all the jobs around the house and yardwork that I have to do. 

I've had this discussion multiple times with a golfing buddy of mine (he's got a son & daughter in their late teens). He swears that he expends more energy trying to get his kids to do the required chores they've set forth for the kids than if he just did the work himself. And don't get him started on how he often times wastes an hour or more in the morning just trying to get the kids up & get them in gear for school.

We're at the point of the thread where surly parents who are happy for their life choices should pat themselves on the back & continue doing their good work. And those who've decided not to procreate should continue on their merry way.  

 

[Deej 76920]

So the kids figured out how to win? 

"If I'm lazy enough, dad will just do it."

 

[Aqua Buddha 14610]

20 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Somebody didn't get enough hugs as a child.

I think we're getting some in sight into why he's asking if people regret not having kids......

Your Mom gave me enough hugs.

Since this thread is about people that don’t have kids, I’m not sure why 2/3 of the responses are people talking about how great their kids are and what awesome parents they are.  It’s about like someone on a thread about which truck to buy yammering on about their Porsche convertible.

It’s like the kid people are always convincing you how great it is.  If the OP wanted to know what it was like to have kids, maybe the thread wound be titled “Tell me about your kids”

 

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

41 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Your Mom gave me enough hugs.

Since this thread is about people that don’t have kids, I’m not sure why 2/3 of the responses are people talking about how great their kids are and what awesome parents they are.  It’s about like someone on a thread about which truck to buy yammering on about their Porsche convertible.

It’s like the kid people are always convincing you how great it is.  If the OP wanted to know what it was like to have kids, maybe the thread wound be titled “Tell me about your kids”

 

 

My mom is a loving person she hugs everybody no matter how feeble minded they are.

Nobody is doing any such thing.  It's been pretty much yeah we decided to have kids or we decided not to have kids. I don't recall reading any post where people have bashed either side for their choices.

 

You might fall in the camp that people are glad you don't procreate...... just sayin'.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Onboard 2.0

[Aqua Buddha 14610]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

My mom is a loving person she hugs everybody no matter how feeble minded they are.

Nobody is doing any such thing.  It's been pretty much yeah we decided to have kids or we decided not to have kids. I don't recall reading any post where people have bashed either side for there choices.

 

You might fall in the camp that people are glad you don't procreate...... just sayin'.

Well, the thread is titled “Voluntary Childlessness.”

[NeverMarryAStripper 21921]

I think even his unborn kids are glad he didn’t have them

[Iceman 2725]

1 minute ago, Axiom of Choice said:

Maybe one day 3d printers and our understanding of biology will get so good that we can print people. 

I can fap to that...

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19142]

On 9/12/2019 at 8:11 PM, Underdog said:

Interesting.  I’d imagine with your lifestyle a kid/husband could really hamper it.  Saw Anjelah Johnson last night and she mentioned her and her husband don’t want children, that she loved her life and being able to do what she does and not worrying about it lugging the kid around or having to find a babysitter.  My son is in his mid 30s and was married last year, wouldn’t surprise me if they went childless, would be disappointing for us but I’d understand.  It’s their life, do what’s best for you. 

It is true. I still have dogs, but I have a place to board them, and they are so easy going that they enjoy playing with all the other dogs (the place I take them to is open playtime and sleeping).  

[Kringelbert Fishtybuns 944]

22 hours ago, Axiom of Choice said:

Maybe one day 3d printers and our understanding of biology will get so good that we can print people.  Then there might really be unborn folks.  We could get so proficient at printing people that we could make the whole procreation cycle obsolete.  We wouldn't even need to produce kids as we could just print full grown adults with all of their adult understanding and training intact. If you wanted , you could scan your loved ones periodically and then if they died we could print you another one with all of their same memories and everything (at least up to the most recent scan date).  They would be identical and wouldn't even know they just popped into existence.   You could also print a woman that looks however you like and make her brain such that she genuinely loves you.  Eventually no one would  know where they came from or if they had an actual lineage or were just recently printed.  This whole enterprise would raise a whole slew of philosophical and ethical conundrums.  

Why don’t you just tell us if the third season of Westworld is worth the time?

[Underdog 28773]

22 hours ago, Axiom of Choice said:

Maybe one day 3d printers and our understanding of biology will get so good that we can print people.  Then there might really be unborn folks.  We could get so proficient at printing people that we could make the whole procreation cycle obsolete.  We wouldn't even need to produce kids as we could just print full grown adults with all of their adult understanding and training intact. If you wanted , you could scan your loved ones periodically and then if they died we could print you another one with all of their same memories and everything (at least up to the most recent scan date).  They would be identical and wouldn't even know they just popped into existence.   You could also print a woman that looks however you like and make her brain such that she genuinely loves you.  Eventually no one would  know where they came from or if they had an actual lineage or were just recently printed.  This whole enterprise would raise a whole slew of philosophical and ethical conundrums.  

[tantric superman 4667]

Hats off to married folks with no kids. 

This to any married couples with more than two kids.

We have too many people on this planet.  Women need to voluntarily have two or less kids.  Men need to sire two or less kids.

 

[tantric superman 4667]

On 9/13/2019 at 3:22 PM, sidis said:

anyone who "judges" or "criticizes" someone else for a decision to have children or not have children is a complete nincompoop and is internally unhappy and looking to validate their decision and way of life since they lack confidence in their choices.  if you think someone is wrong for not wanting or having kids, you should kill yourself.  the opposite holds true as well.

You talking about two different things.  Wanting or not wanting to have kids -- shouldn't be judged.

Deciding to have kids - sorry, you're completely open to judgment as to how many you have, how you raise, them, and how they end up.  You're decision to procreate affects our society.  Society can, and should, fairly judge you.

 

[DaysOff 7974]

Hats off to married folks with no kids. 
This to any married couples with more than two kids.

We have too many people on this planet.  Women need to voluntarily have two or less kids.  Men need to sire two or less kids.
 

How long should we implement your plan to kill off the species? You realize the fertility replacement rate is like 2.11 just to sustain humanity. I have 3 healthy white babies so deal with it.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

7 hours ago, tantric superman said:

You talking about two different things.  Wanting or not wanting to have kids -- shouldn't be judged.

Deciding to have kids - sorry, you're completely open to judgment as to how many you have, how you raise, them, and how they end up.  You're decision to procreate affects our society.  Society can, and should, fairly judge you.

 

You're right, but * your grammar needs some judgement.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 hours ago, DaysOff said:

How long should we implement your plan to kill off the species? You realize the fertility replacement rate is like 2.11 just to sustain humanity. I have 3 healthy white babies so deal with it.

How many other colors do you have ?

Edited September 15, 2019 by Onboard 2.0