Voluntary childlessness

[LABEVO 928]

People saying that overpopulation is the reason they aren’t having kids. 

 

[CHIEF 5094]

I was an only child, and CHIEF Jr. is an only child. I see it not only as a a way to control population, but also as a way to concentrate generational wealth in uncertain times. Not only will his offspring inherit everything of mine, but will also inherit whatever my parents were able to accumulate, and whatever else he is able to pass on. I still instill in him that it's not what you have, but what you are able to accomplish with it.

He will inherit the metal fab shop I inherited from my Dad, as soon as he is ready (after working for another company in management for a few years). Being a mechanical engineer, this will give him a pretty decent headstart. We have a friend that owns a  big industrial machine shop, he will probably be ready to retire in about 10 years, he will have the funds available to be able to purchase it. He can make a comfortable living, in a small town, and provide trade jobs with good pay, and enrich the community as well as other families, which is the most important benefit to society. The only thing he will get to take to the grave is a good reputation.

CHIEF

[MissingInAction 25152]

19 hours ago, LABEVO said:

People saying that overpopulation is the reason they aren’t having kids. 

 

Hits a bit too close to home. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13516]

If someone is deciding on kids, I think you have to ask yourself whether it makes you, your spouse and the marriage happier. If the answer is no to any of the 3, I think it's better to pass on kids. And I don't mean that certain aspects aren't happier at times, but it seems to me (no kids here) kids add a tremendous amount of stress and sacrifice at certain points.

[pacman 7369]

1 hour ago, CHIEF said:

I was an only child, and CHIEF Jr. is an only child. I see it not only as a a way to control population, but also as a way to concentrate generational wealth in uncertain times. Not only will his offspring inherit everything of mine, but will also inherit whatever my parents were able to accumulate, and whatever else he is able to pass on. I still instill in him that it's not what you have, but what you are able to accomplish with it.

He will inherit the metal fab shop I inherited from my Dad, as soon as he is ready (after working for another company in management for a few years). Being a mechanical engineer, this will give him a pretty decent headstart. We have a friend that owns a  big industrial machine shop, he will probably be ready to retire in about 10 years, he will have the funds available to be able to purchase it. He can make a comfortable living, in a small town, and provide trade jobs with good pay, and enrich the community as well as other families, which is the most important benefit to society. The only thing he will get to take to the grave is a good reputation.

CHIEF

CHIEF Jr. to CHIEF: I fucking hate metal. I don't want your life! I just want to eat goldfish and make art with my toes.

Edited October 8, 2019 by pacman

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

11 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If someone is deciding on kids, I think you have to ask yourself whether it makes you, your spouse and the marriage happier. If the answer is no to any of the 3, I think it's better to pass on kids. And I don't mean that certain aspects aren't happier at times, but it seems to me (no kids here) kids add a tremendous amount of stress and sacrifice at certain points.

Yeah, you better damn well be sure you're on the same page about wanting too have kids, and just as importantly, how you want to raise them.

[Iceman 2724]

2 hours ago, CHIEF said:

I was an only child, and CHIEF Jr. is an only child. I see it not only as a a way to control population, but also as a way to concentrate generational wealth in uncertain times. Not only will his offspring inherit everything of mine, but will also inherit whatever my parents were able to accumulate, and whatever else he is able to pass on. I still instill in him that it's not what you have, but what you are able to accomplish with it.

He will inherit the metal fab shop I inherited from my Dad, as soon as he is ready (after working for another company in management for a few years). Being a mechanical engineer, this will give him a pretty decent headstart. We have a friend that owns a  big industrial machine shop, he will probably be ready to retire in about 10 years, he will have the funds available to be able to purchase it. He can make a comfortable living, in a small town, and provide trade jobs with good pay, and enrich the community as well as other families, which is the most important benefit to society. The only thing he will get to take to the grave is a good reputation.

CHIEF

This is an aspect of parenthood I never once considered:  Will I have enough to give to each child when I die?

Seriously?

[pacman 7369]

Same.

 

My kids have just about every advantage required, short of expensive private school and auto entry into Harvard, to lead a successful life. I'm not saying that I will spend every dime but making them wealthy by default, based solely on my efforts, is low on my priorities. But, I do understand when others see differently.

Edited October 8, 2019 by pacman

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, what my children will inherit from me is way down the list of its even there at all.  Now I do truly want to give them the very best education from top 5 public school district and/or private school.  UT will be their safety school, as well as one advanced degree of their choosing.  Beyond that, no wedding payments or big inheritance.   Maybe a little extra for a startup investment or townhome down payment, but that’s it as far money or stuff.  
 

it is admirable if you can afford it, but planning your offspring decisions around what cash and prizes you can leave them is beyond me.  I suppose I come from a long line of not much.  Aside from values, good memories, and top flight education..:....the only other item of intrinsic value I can give them is a series of awkwardly obtained data points on people

[CHIEF 5094]

My father was the 4th of 10 kids with a sharecropper father, and a stay at home mother. She ruled with an iron fist, and I was just "Melvin's boy" till the day she died. She loved me, but in the 19 years, of my life, she was alive, I never once heard her call me by name. My father was the first of his siblings to graduate from high school, his mother took his graduation gifts, and divvied them up among his younger siblings. He left home, took his next younger brother with him and moved into a boarding house. They caught chickens in big chicken houses at night. He swore when he was doing this, his kids would never have to make a living the way he did. Seeing the poverty of a family with 10 kids, he decided to have a small family, he convinced my mother to do the same. So I was it.

I told him I was going to propose to Mrs. CHIEF, and that's when he had the talk with me about smaller families, and it just made sense for me. Mrs. CHIEF said a small family was fine with her as well. The idea of only having one came later, after population issues were brought to the forefront by news media and education. The concept of building generational wealth came a little later, after seeing both my Dad's siblings, and my MIL's siblings fighting over what amounted to not much of nothing when it came to their inheritance. Dad just walked away from his, MIL fought tooth and nail, both families alienated the others at first, and it took years for reconciliation. The same is going on with a woman at work, and one of my former employees who is on his deathbed (two separate families). It's a concept that is completely foreign to me. I can also tell there is going to be problems with Mrs. CHIEF and her two siblings, both are very entitled individuals. I love my BIL, but he is already on Mrs. CHIEF about deeding about $120k worth of property to him, so he will have controlling interest and fuck over his older sister.

CHIEF

Edited October 8, 2019 by CHIEF

[Iceman 2724]

That's a character/ quality issue, not a function of quantity.

When my mom passes, and I understand people change; there is virtually zero chance my 2 brothers and I will ever fight/argue/ manipulate over the estate.

I have two sons.  they get fucking half.  It's that simple.

 

People who are greedy fucks are not that way because they had 7 siblings as opposed to 1.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Iceman

[CHIEF 5094]

A lot of times, it's parents not taking the time to fill out a proper Will. With sometimes hundreds of thousands or possibly millions at stake you see a lot of character/quality issues come out that never would normally surface. It gets nit picky. The property is in San Saba, they go every weekend, and use it to hunt. There are already too many hunters on the place, its dangerous. We have been maybe twice in the last 10 years. Neither sibling has done maintenance on the property, but feel they are entitled to Mrs. CHIEF's part, because they have "been there" for enjoyment. $$$ makes people think funny. Good people can justify plenty in their minds.

CHIEF 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13516]

I don't understand why anyone should think they're entitled to their parent's wealth. You're entitled to nothing. And your parents can split it equally or unequally, and its none of your business. 

[CHIEF 5094]

It's split equally in the Will. 

CHIEF

[Aqua Buddha 14600]

Sending your kids to good schools growing up, sending them to college without them being burdened with student loans and helping them with a wedding/house/whatever is more valuable than an inheritance when they’re 60 or something.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Sending your kids to good schools growing up, sending them to college without them being burdened with student loans and helping them with a wedding/house/whatever is more valuable than an inheritance when they’re 60 or something.

Well, if you do the first 2 things then the rest should take care of itself for them, and they won't need to rely on what you leave after dying.  I'd say add in raising them to be smart and to know how to make the right life decisions.

[Huckleberry 33058]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I don't understand why anyone should think they're entitled to their parent's wealth. You're entitled to nothing. And your parents can split it equally or unequally, and its none of your business. 

Yeah, that's how I see it. My little brother has received a shitload more financial support from my parents (and now just my dad) than I have over the years. My dad would certainly help me out if I asked, but the entire mindset of keeping a scorecard of who's gotten what is just disgusting to me. My brother needed more help, so he got more help. It was never my money to begin with so why would I care, other than being happy my brother was okay? It's just nuts to see what happens in other families sometimes.

[CHIEF 5094]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I don't understand why anyone should think they're entitled to their parent's wealth. You're entitled to nothing. And your parents can split it equally or unequally, and its none of your business. 

I agree wholeheartedly. If my mother died penniless, that's totally fine with me. It's her money, and she can do with it as she wishes, leave it to charity even. CHIEF Jr. has no college debt, and has worked a full time job till this semester. My parents paid off our house in Austin, and asked us to move close to them so they could see their grandson more, so we did. Bought a house about 10 minutes away. Also agree about helping them when they are young and need the money. Not old when they don't. No college degree wasn't even an option, my parents would have been heartbroken. They helped me get out debt free when they weren't doing great financially by sacrificing and working 60 hours a week. They will always have my love and admiration for that.

CHIEF 

[Anastasis 23481]

4 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

It's just nuts to see what happens in other families sometimes.

It's quite amazing how fucked up some families are. 

[Not that Bob 739]

It gives me happiness to think that I can give something to my children to enrich their lives or to make their lives easier than mine. If they show a history of supporting themselves and not being leaches on society I have no problem leaving them something. 

[Continental Op 3934]

You'll all be too dead to care. Spend your money while you're alive.

[yoladu 4094]

On 9/12/2019 at 6:47 PM, Aqua Buddha said:

The wife (no pics) and I have been married 12 years and we don't have kids, never wanted kids, and don't want them.  Never changed our minds, not one bit and we're in our mid 40's now.  Neither of us had a desire to have kids before we met.  So, I'm qualified to answer your questions.

Have you chosen this path for yourself?  If so then what were your reasons and how has that decision held up through the years? Any regrets down the road?

Yes.  No regrets and it's one of the reasons we married each other.  Neither of us particular like kids and selfishly, I guess, wanted to enjoy our lifestyle without being burdened by kids.  By "lifestyle," I mean not only money but time.  We like our freedom and being able to retire early.  (We're DINK's and both made good money.)  Before you accuse us of being "selfish," ask yourself how many people have kids thinking the kids will be taking care of them somedays.  (Note that doesn't always works out.  A lot of people are floating their kids for 40+ years.)

Do you have friends, family, or colleagues who have done this?

Yes, quite a few actually.  None have any regrets.

Is your opinion positively or negatively impacted by their status as non parents, or does that not enter the equation at all for you?

We're not impacted by their status at all.  To each their own.

If you have a general positive or negative impression of this, then what factors into that? Morals, ethics, religion, impact on society, selfishness, narcissism, jealousy, etc?

All of those factors might influence your decision to have kids but your life is your life.  If you're Hispanic Catholic and don't want kids, don't have them.  It's your life and not the life of your family.  If you want a lot of kids, then have a lot of kids, assuming you can afford that.

So, in short, it's a little bit of selfishness combined that we don't really like kids but there are people that like kids and are selfish for having them and that's fine.  Yes, there are downsides but there are upsides, too.  (Same with having kids.)  Although, we do laugh at people that are making some political statement by not having kids.  (How could I bring a kid into this world of global warming or whateverthefuck.)

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.  

 

good post. I have two kids, but i never understood the "you are being selfish" argument people lay on couples who choose not to have children.

If it was me, i would be like : "Who gives a fuck what you think? Selfish about what?! Selfish to whom? Mind your own damn business. How does me not having kids affect you one way or the other?"

And how was my wife and i having two children not being "selfish"? i just don't get it.

Edited October 10, 2019 by yoladu

[yoladu 4094]

dreaded double post.. know the difference between "quote" and "edit".

Edited October 10, 2019 by yoladu

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Across the street, our neighbors have no children, never did, and won't. They travel the world, and have a great life I believe.  

Right next door to them, our other neighbors have 6 stair step kids from 28 down to 6. They've home schooled all of them, are very religious, and don't take lots of vacations or live high on the hog.  They seem to have a very happy life, and their kids are absolutely the most polite, well mannered, and some of the most wicked smart kids I've ever met.

It's no ones business if a couple has kids or not other than they better make those kids priority no. 1 as they grow up into adult hood to create people that other folks  want to be around.  I believe you have a duty to society (and those kids) when you have children that they aren't a burden to society or are generally selfish, self centered assholes.

[Reagan1k 3024]

Selfish is having kids in order to fit into some societal norm, when it isn't in your heart to be a parent.....

People need to stay in their own lane.  

We had kids....we wanted kids.  I'm close with others who didn't want and didn't have kids.  They're happy and I'm happy for them.

Pets / no pet - truck / car - apartment / house who gives a shit.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13516]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

.  Right next door to them, our other neighbors have 6 stair step kids from 28 down to 6. They've home schooled all of them, are very religious, and don't take lots of vacations or live high on the hog.  They seem to have a very happy life, and their kids are absolutely the most polite, well mannered, and some of the most wicked smart kids I've ever met.

Is a stair step kid one that you keep under the stairs?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

20 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Is a stair step kid one that you keep under the stairs?

Yeah, they cut the grass, and wax the cars.

 

Stair step kid= 3 siblings (at least) that are a year to a few years apart.  Mom and dad Been busy....

[Continental Op 3934]

Yeah, they cut the grass, and wax the cars.
 
Stair step kid= 3 siblings (at least) that are a year to a few years apart.  Mom and dad Been busy....

Irish twins

[Sandman 3410]

36 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Is a stair step kid one that you keep under the stairs?

Put some respect on Harry Potter's name, you big jerk.

[Shady Ray 1633]

41 years old, wife is 38. No kids. While we haven't explicitly ruled it out, time is not on our side and neither of us seem particularly keen on having one.

We have been married for 13 years, we both have great jobs and we enjoy the free time we have together, but there just isn't a desire for kids in either one of us; and, as DINKs living in Munich, there isn't much social pressure on us given that we seem to be in the majority of couples here in Germany when it comes to having kids.

I am at peace with it and she seems to be, as well.

Literally the only reason I can think of to have one is out of my own fear of her being completely alone later in life if something happens to me (and this actually has been a concern in the back of my mind for some reason as of late). She has no siblings (or even any cousins) and if I checked out early, she would be pretty much entirely alone. But, I am honestly not sure if that reasoning alone justifies bringing a kid into the world when honestly I have no desire otherwise.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21919]

If you leave her enough money she won't be alone for long

[Nice Guy Eddie 13516]

I get the fear of you or your spouse being alone later in life, but you can’t count on kids being around when you’re older. 

[Guest Lobo]

If having no kids is being selfish, what the fuck do you call it when you have kids so you have someone around to take care of you when you're older or sick?  

Is there some new law that prevents married people with no children from buying Long-Term Care Insurance that I'm not aware of?  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

39 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I get the fear of you or your spouse being alone later in life, but you can’t count on kids being around when you’re older. 

True.  However, our slightly older, neighbors across the street, who have no kids show up at our door Christmas morning to hang with our FAMILY. Me the wifey, kids, cousins, grandparents, etc.

Family is the key word here.  That's a big part of having kids.

[Shady Ray 1633]

1 hour ago, Lobo said:

If having no kids is being selfish, what the fuck do you call it when you have kids so you have someone around to take care of you when you're older or sick?  

Is there some new law that prevents married people with no children from buying Long-Term Care Insurance that I'm not aware of?  

Not sure if this is directed at my post, but if so, my point wasn't about care or finances in our later years, as we will be fine there. It was more about the (albeit slight) nagging worry as we stare down the last of the baby-havin' years that she would eventually regret not having immediate family around after I kicked the bucket, particularly if that occurred too late in life. 

 

But as NMAS alluded to earlier, she can always use those funds we squirrelled away to move to Spain and chase middle-aged lotharios, so I'm just gonna keep on enjoying the quiet weekends.

[Guest Lobo]

Not directed at your post at all.  Just reminded of how many times I’ve heard the “if you don’t have children, who will take care of you in your later years?”  So many times that it makes my head hurt.  
 

it’s formally codified into some many cultures that the youngest girl or wife of oldest boy or whatever looks after the parents in old age and in exchange receives certain legal acknowledgements and so forth

anyway it’s a hot topic with my wife’s family right now.  She has three sisters aged 27-41 and none of them have children, one is trying and she’s the only one who is married.  And her parents keep telling them to have kids, it’s the catholic thing to do; it’s selfish not no, etc.  meantime, they have shit their entire lives down the last 20 years to care for ailing parents (wife’s grandparents) who have threatened to write them out of their will if they don’t stay nearby in their little town and provide them meals and healthcare and cleaning.  Because it’s way cheaper than professional care.  To me, that’s selfish.  

Not having kids is totally fine.  Just like actual kids, we project all our bullshit onto a lack of kids as well

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

I grew up with 3 of my great grandparents and all of my grandparents.  The family/children did take care of them as they aged.  That's been the tradition in most of the world until America.

[irishtexan 11522]

We got two kids. They're pretty cool. My wife and I enjoy being parents. We try to raise them not to be dicks. And yet, they're often very dickish. Especially to each other. I just want them to be happy. I try not to philosophize on it much more than that. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13516]

24 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Not directed at your post at all.  Just reminded of how many times I’ve heard the “if you don’t have children, who will take care of you in your later years?”  So many times that it makes my head hurt.  
 

it’s formally codified into some many cultures that the youngest girl or wife of oldest boy or whatever looks after the parents in old age and in exchange receives certain legal acknowledgements and so forth

anyway it’s a hot topic with my wife’s family right now.  She has three sisters aged 27-41 and none of them have children, one is trying and she’s the only one who is married.  And her parents keep telling them to have kids, it’s the catholic thing to do; it’s selfish not no, etc.  meantime, they have shit their entire lives down the last 20 years to care for ailing parents (wife’s grandparents) who have threatened to write them out of their will if they don’t stay nearby in their little town and provide them meals and healthcare and cleaning.  Because it’s way cheaper than professional care.  To me, that’s selfish.  

Not having kids is totally fine.  Just like actual kids, we project all our bullshit onto a lack of kids as well

different world but I've read how some parents in China are not allowing their only child to marry as they want to ensure the child will solely focus on caring for them (parents) later on.  Part of it is that the older generations in China were denied an education (great leap forward and cultural revolution) so they had little in terms of good job prospects. Their main asset is their child.   

Other Chinese parents have the same thought but they do allow their child to marry but only to someone that will also be responsible for taking care of their in-laws.

[Guest Lobo]

26 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I grew up with 3 of my great grandparents and all of my grandparents.  The family/children did take care of them as they aged.  That's been the tradition in most of the world until America.

And the minute we invented the wagon, the train, the car, the plane...most people get the fuck outta dodge when given the choice.  Our species has been marked by movement and innovation, not staying put to make soup.  Nothing wrong with either decision, both are baked into our DNA

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Lobo said:

And the minute we invented the wagon, the train, the car, the plane...most people get the fuck outta dodge when given the choice.  Our species has been marked by movement and innovation, not staying put to make soup.  Nothing wrong with either decision, both are baked into our DNA

 Most families (majority of family members) lived in close proximity till the second half of the 20th c.  We're a much more mobile society today. That's what I saw growing up. Could be different depending on region, socioeconomic factors, etc.  Your results may vary.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13516]

If you look at many families' records, there have always been children that moved far away quickly. But the parents had 5-8 kids, so of course a few will stay close to the parents.  The children of those children will think it's normal to live near their grandparents. However their cousins (if they even know them) have a completely different story.

America was built on moving westward for economic improvement. Away from your family, or moving west with your young family.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

26 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If you look at many families' records, there have always been children that moved far away quickly. But the parents had 5-8 kids, so of course a few will stay close to the parents.  The children of those children will think it's normal to live near their grandparents. However their cousins (if they even know them) have a completely different story.

America was built on moving westward for economic improvement. Away from your family, or moving west with your young family.

Yeah that whole westward ho thing is for a portion of the population. It's not the rule. And I'm talking 20th c. here not the 1880's.  Millions upon millions didn't go west.

[Aqua Buddha 14600]

There are lot of older people taking care of their adult kids, not the other way around.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

7 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

There are lot of older people taking care of their adult kids, not the other way around.

Well, somebodies gotta look after those pesky millennials.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah that whole westward ho thing is for a portion of the population. It's not the rule. And I'm talking 20th c. here not the 1880's.  Millions upon millions didn't go west.

True, a bunch came east from China to get here.

[wild_turkey 3178]

the (albeit slight) nagging worry as we stare down the last of the baby-havin' years that she would eventually regret not having immediate family around after I kicked the bucket, particularly if that occurred too late in life. 

That’s one of my concerns as well. We like it being just the 2 of us, but if one of us died at an early age, the other person would be left solo. We have plenty of other family and friends, but going to sleep in an empty house on Christmas sounds kinda depressing. I guess that’s where dogs come in.

[Aqua Buddha 14600]

14 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

 

That’s one of my concerns as well. We like it being just the 2 of us, but if one of us died at an early age, the other person would be left solo. We have plenty of other family and friends, but going to sleep in an empty house on Christmas sounds kinda depressing. I guess that’s where dogs come in.

 

Hate to be morbid but if you live long enough, that's how we all end up.

[Guest Lobo]

Cheer up, maybe we'll all go out together. 

In a mass shooting.  Seems to be where we're headed as a nation.  

[wild_turkey 3178]

2 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Hate to be morbid but if you live long enough, that's how we all end up.

I was actually hoping for the scenario where we have a carbon monoxide problem and both go peacefully in our sleep, following a day of bumming around in Tuscany, eating pasta, drinking wine, and banging.