Report: 14 billion dollar deal for Bullet train from Houston to Dallas is done

[The People’s Elbow 707]

16 hours ago, Kyle said:

That's why I don't think it's fair to say America is "anti-rail." It may be the America is anti wasting more tax dollars on unnecessary boondoggles ... that does not even consider the ridiculous capital needed for startup - buying the land alone likely could not be covered by a private investment ... much less capital to build the infrastructure. One can still love trains and not be "anti-rail" but still understand it is a foolish decision.

Look at the big brain on Kyle. 

[SquishMitten 10,491]

Remember that science experiment we all did in elementary school where you try to build a container that can protect an egg from a 2-3 story fall? Why don’t we just do that, but for humans shot out of rail guns? That’d cut way down on the land purchases

[Armybrat 41,192]

You can take the inaugural ride.... while I watch. 

[Js1 86,367]

17 hours ago, Kyle said:

That's why I don't think it's fair to say America is "anti-rail." It may be the America is anti wasting more tax dollars on unnecessary boondoggles ... that does not even consider the ridiculous capital needed for startup - buying the land alone likely could not be covered by a private investment ... much less capital to build the infrastructure. One can still love trains and not be "anti-rail" but still understand it is a foolish decision.

[gmr548 16,680]

Fundamentally, trains' efficiency declines while airplanes' efficiency increases. In a large country like the U.S., planes just make more sense. I love taking European trains - even the Italian rail is cool ... but Europe is the size of Texas.

1.) No one is suggesting trains replace airplanes nationally. This is a strawman. HSR is obviously not the answer for the NYC to LA market, etc. HSR is, howecer, significantly more efficient and s sustainable for regional intercity travel. That much is not debatable.

2.) You're ignorant of geography or prone to gross hyperbole, not sure which.

[gmr548 16,680]

It may be the America is anti wasting more tax dollars on unnecessary boondoggles ...

L-o-fucking-l

[Kyle 207]

Those are some compelling arguments. Please keep them coming.

[Hawndoh 2,409]

I wonder how much high speed rail could be in our country right now using only the dollars wasted on the F35.

[Pasken 1,310]

12 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Those are some compelling arguments. Please keep them coming.

I’d love some more geography lessons if you have the time.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,626]

For travel within Texas, I miss the days of how Southwest could basically care less what flight you were booked, they just allowed you on the next flight without fees or wait lists. you had a 4pm flight from DAL-HOU, and you could show up early at noon, and you were on the 12:25 flight. I don't know if this was a factor of more flights/less passengers or just how SWA wanted to set themselves apart.

If a train could compete on flexibility, price, comfort and speed; they could demolish some flights.

as far as govt funding, I would like to see them make a deal with the state on future state funding for other routes IF they can meet construction and ultimately operational goals. If you had SA, Austin, Dallas and Houston that tightly connected with HSR, Texas could be a powerhouse economic threat against CA and NY. You could legitimately live and work in any city at that point, which would be an employer's dream to have an employee population of 20m.

[RPM 26,472]

17 hours ago, SquishMitten said:

Remember that science experiment we all did in elementary school where you try to build a container that can protect an egg from a 2-3 story fall? Why don’t we just do that, but for humans shot out of rail guns? That’d cut way down on the land purchases

 

17 hours ago, Armybrat said:

You can take the inaugural ride.... while I watch. 

[Armybrat 41,192]

😳

[CooterBrown 18,244]

For travel within Texas, I miss the days of how Southwest could basically care less what flight you were booked, they just allowed you on the next flight without fees or wait lists. you had a 4pm flight from DAL-HOU, and you could show up early at noon, and you were on the 12:25 flight. I don't know if this was a factor of more flights/less passengers or just how SWA wanted to set themselves apart.

It’s still like that if there’s an available seat and you have an Anytime or Business Select ticket. You can do it with a Wanna Get Away Fare but you gotta pay the price difference if there is one.

[GabrielsHorn 2,233]

On 2/20/2020 at 1:34 PM, Reynolds Woodcock said:

Those renfre high speed trains between Barcelona and Madrid and Madrid and Sevilla are awesome.

Yup, if the trains are like the ones in Spain, it'll be a fantastic experience. Here's to hoping that land acquisition and the environmental permitting goes smoothly. 

[Js1 86,367]

10 minutes ago, GabrielsHorn said:

Yup, if the trains are like the ones in Spain, it'll be a fantastic experience. Here's to hoping that land acquisition and the environmental permitting goes smoothly. 

I cannot think of a train in Europe I took that wasn't 100x easier than flying, more relaxing and way more convenient. 

Cheaper
More room to move around
Picks you up in the city center and drops you in the city center, versus an airport 30-40 miles outside of the downtown
Taking into account airport security and getting to the airport from the city, faster too

We are stupid dumb idiots with a gas guzzler culture.  Consumerism!!! 

[BabaYaga 15,486]

9 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

a deal with the state on future state funding for other routes IF they can meet construction and ultimately operational goals.

[BabaYaga 15,486]

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I cannot think of a train in Europe I took that wasn't 100x easier than flying, more relaxing and way more convenient

It's almost as if the cities were build at different times and developed around different means of transportation?  Weird, right?

[atomheartbevo 90,385]

32 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

It's almost as if the cities were build at different times and developed around different means of transportation?  Weird, right?

We had electric light rail running down Congress Ave (and all the way to Hyde Park) over a a century ago.  

[atomheartbevo 90,385]

32 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

It's almost as if the cities were build at different times and developed around different means of transportation?  Weird, right?

We had electric light rail running down Congress Ave (and all the way to Hyde Park) over a a century ago.  

[elfenix 34,592]

everywhere had electric street cars and then GM killed them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy

[Homercles 10,206]

38 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

It's almost as if the cities were build at different times and developed around different means of transportation?  Weird, right?

It’s also as if train stations take up 1/100th the space, infrastructure and resources of a typical midsize airport.  It’s not just the real estate on an airport, the surrounding space needs to be clear of tall buildings, power lines and other elements that pose a risk to aircraft during approach/departure.  Even if major airports were around 100 years ago they still wouldn’t be in city centers once fixed wing took over for blimps.  

[Dahobbs 18,056]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

It's almost as if the cities were build at different times and developed around different means of transportation?  Weird, right?

What is your point here? Our cities were built at a different time and as a result we are required to have inferior transportation options? Why is that? What precisely about the design of European cities differ so greatly from American cities that high speed rail is precluded here? It isn't like the European cities grew up around rail. They are older than that. It isn't like our cities grew up around airports. They are older than that. Hell, many of our cities actually did grow up around the use passenger rail, so you'd think it would be easier for us to adapt modern high speed rail. . . 

[Js1 86,367]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

What is your point here? Our cities were built at a different time and as a result we are required to have inferior transportation options? Why is that? What precisely about the design of European cities differ so greatly from American cities that high speed rail is precluded here? It isn't like the European cities grew up around rail. They are older than that. It isn't like our cities grew up around airports. They are older than that. Hell, many of our cities actually did grow up around the use passenger rail, so you'd think it would be easier for us to adapt modern high speed rail. . . 

I'm also confused by this.  Dallas to San Antonio (35) to Houston (10) to Dallas (45) are pretty much straight lines without mountains or even any changes in elevation.  It should be the easiest fucking thing on the planet to do.  

[Hank Scorpio 17,886]

No CR, but if a politician ran on a platform of supporting high speed rails and trains he or she (but really he, come on) would have my vote regardless of any other policy positions. I’m sorry your husband died in one of the forced labor camps created by President Kanye, but I can take a bullet train from Houston to Dallas in 45 minutes so I’m going to vote for him again. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Hank Scorpio

[Zombie 284]

Haha! A "platform" for trains! Now I've heard it all! Lol I love puns.

[Pasken 1,310]

42 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

No CR, but if a politician ran on a platform of supporting high speed rails and trains he or she (but really he, come on) would have my vote regardless of any other policy positions. I’m sorry your husband died in one of the forced labor camps created by President Kanye, but I can take a bullet train from Houston to Dallas in 45 minutes so I’m going to vote for him again. 

The current admin has spurned funding mass transit projects and prioritized rural highways.

[BabaYaga 15,486]

49 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I'm also confused by this.  Dallas to San Antonio (35) to Houston (10) to Dallas (45) are pretty much straight lines without mountains or even any changes in elevation.  It should be the easiest fucking thing on the planet to do.  

And yet everywhere they are built they are plagued by massive delays and cost overruns.  Only Geographically perfect Japan has been able to make a pair that are able to operate without govt subsidies.  Say nothing of the YOY maintenance costs.  Yet this time....this time, we'll get it right...

[Js1 86,367]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

And yet everywhere they are built they are plagued by massive delays and cost overruns.  Only Geographically perfect Japan has been able to make a pair that are able to operate without govt subsidies.  Say nothing of the YOY maintenance costs.  Yet this time....this time, we'll get it right...

Like any public works project?

Or do your perfect highways always finish on time and on budget? 

[Homercles 10,206]

How is japan geographically perfect?  It’s a mountainous country prone to earthquakes, tsunamis and limited resources.  The little viable land they do have is crowded as hell, so I guess having major population centers concentrated to a few places is advantageous but that’s it.  

[Homercles 10,206]

Just now, Js1 said:

Like any public works project?

Or do your perfect highways always finish on time and on budget? 

Just look at I35 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,626]

12 hours ago, Wayne_hogdong.com said:

Well I sure hope they don't get it running there is alot of great Black Land Farmland out there and it will be sad because cattle and hogs will no longer be able to use the other side of their pasture. They will be cut off and think about how many crops could be grown on that land. I will be Voting No! 😞 The Farm Bureau is against it too!

I'm sure that there would be individual farmers/ranchers that would be negatively impacted but it doesn't immediately eliminate 50% of usage of their property. I would also guess this occurs all the time with other public works projects as well. They would also get a decent chunk of change for a relatively narrow strip of land. And if they are truly losing land usage, then let's force the HSR to pay them extra.

But for all of the talk how it destroys family farms, I haven't seen an actual count of farms and percentage of their land that becomes unusable because of this project.

[Pig Bellmont 8,821]

Rail is a public good worthy of government funding 

[Huckleberry 34,150]

22 hours ago, Hawndoh said:

I wonder how much high speed rail could be in our country right now using only the dollars wasted on the F35.

Based on some figures from other HSR studies and the estimated full program cost of $1.5T for the F35, we could have approximately 21,750 miles of HSR installed and maintained for 50 years.

(this is based on estimates of $62.5M per mile for installation and $125K per mile per year for maintenance).

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/outlook/article/Face-the-stats-Texas-high-speed-rail-destined-13611775.php

https://www.sj-r.com/article/20110306/News/303069968

21,750 miles would allow the following connections if the federal government took over to spend money on infrastructure instead of a non-functional fighter jet:

San Antonio-Houston-Dallas Triangle (710 miles)
Los Angeles-San Diego-Phoenix-Las Vegas Quadrilateral (1047 miles)
Los Angeles-San Jose-San Francisco-Sacramento Line (477 miles)
Sacramento-Portland-Seattle line (758 miles)
Miami-Orlando-Jacksonville-Atlanta line (722 miles)
Atlanta-Charlotte-Richmond-Washington line (645 miles)
Kansas City-St. Louis-Chicago-Milwaukee-Minneapolis Squareish shape thing (1411 miles)

As you can see on the last one I'm getting desperate for routes. And I'm still only up to 5,000 miles. So let's stop there and say that estimated costs are way low and these things actually cost 4 times as much as even the opponents are estimating. We could still have all of the above for the cost of the F35.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Huckleberry

[elfenix 34,592]

for comparison there's 46,876 miles of interstate.

[Pasken 1,310]

TxDot did a massive study on the effect of high speed rail in Texas. Here are the effects of 1 of the 3 route options between Dallas and San Antonio. The differences between the 3 are all in the metroplex.

"Effects on Transit Providers: 21% and 62% of bus and air passengers would be diverted to rail, respectively. Resulting in moderate and substantial effects on bus and air service providers, respectively. Change in VMT: Substantial (beneficial) effects. 7.2% reduction in VMT. Potential secondary beneficial effect (reduced congestion) to bus service providers. For air carriers the potential benefits may include the opportunity to shift from short-haul to longer-haul flight operations, which may include more reliable scheduling and increased revenue."

 

Annual energy savings: 1,413,391 MBTUs

 

Air Quality: Based on short-term construction emissions and based on operational pollutant emission reductions: Substantial (adverse) short-term (construction) effects and substantial (benefit) long-term regional (operation) effects.Beneficial effect (15% reduction)

 

Prime farmland: 10,217 acres. Substantial effects. 

[gmr548 16,680]

And yet everywhere they are built they are plagued by massive delays and cost overruns.  Only Geographically perfect Japan has been able to make a pair that are able to operate without govt subsidies.  Say nothing of the YOY maintenance costs.  Yet this time....this time, we'll get it right...

You really don't see the irony here do you?

[Huckleberry 34,150]

8 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

You really don't see the irony here do you?

I think he probably doesn't. I mean federal subsidies for long-distance transportation options? That would never happen in America!

[BabaYaga 15,486]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

I think he probably doesn't. I mean federal subsidies for long-distance transportation options? That would never happen in America!

The irony of the need for federal subsidies for a project pitched as privately funded....yeah, right over my head.....

[Js1 86,367]

33 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I think he probably doesn't. I mean federal subsidies for long-distance transportation options? That would never happen in America!

We could toll it. And then when its paid off, make it free! Oh wait, we need to keep the tolls for maintenance.  And increase them. Often.  

Well shit, we might as well just use federal money at this point! 

[elfenix 34,592]

39 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

The irony of the need for federal subsidies for a project pitched as privately funded....yeah, right over my head.....

that we've moved from this specific project to HSR generally seems to have gone right over your head.

[BabaYaga 15,486]

1 minute ago, elfenix said:

that we've moved from this specific project to HSR generally seems to have gone right over your head.

Wait, you mean Surly moved on from specifics about a certain project or process....novediving right again into some sophomoric discussion and waxing poetic about generalities and the hypethetical?  

[elfenix 34,592]

someone is being sophomoric, you got that part right.  let's see if you can figure out who that is.

[atomheartbevo 90,385]

4 hours ago, Js1 said:

Like any public works project?

Or do your perfect highways always finish on time and on budget? 

Wait, are you claiming that I-35 between Austin and through Dallas was finished over a decade ago, and the last 20 years of shitty contraction traffic are a figment of my imagination?

My oldest is in first grade.  He will most likely never see 35 between Austin and Dallas be construction free before he finishes college.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,626]

2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Wait, are you claiming that I-35 between Austin and through Dallas was finished over a decade ago, and the last 20 years of shitty contraction traffic are a figment of my imagination?

My oldest is in first grade.  He will most likely never see 35 between Austin and Dallas be construction free before he finishes college.  

Major roads are rarely construction free because on continual improvements and maintenance. It's just how it works. You should expect small stretches of 10-20 miles to be construction free but 200 miles? Never.

[Zwylde 822]

On 2/21/2020 at 10:24 PM, atomheartbevo said:

Probably blame the airlines, oil, and car companies for helping push that attitude.

Imagine high-speed rail between San Antonio, Austin, Dallas, Houston, and New Orleans.  

Oh, and throw in a stop in Lake Charles - 45 minutes or so from Houston to Lake Charles?  Those casinos should pay for that stretch alone, because a fuckton of people in Houston would hop on a high-speed train after work on a Friday, get off in Lake Charles, and head back home the same night or the next day.

Toss in a line to Galveston as well - if you could get people in Dallas down to Galveston in under 2 hours, without the stress of traffic in Dallas and Houston, there would be plenty of families who would do it.

Please no!  The Island can't handle any more people on Summer weekends as it is.

[Armybrat 41,192]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Wait, are you claiming that I-35 between Austin and through Dallas was finished over a decade ago, and the last 20 years of shitty contraction traffic are a figment of my imagination?

My oldest is in first grade.  He will most likely never see 35 between Austin and Dallas be construction free before he finishes college.  

I’ve been waiting since seeing it for the first time in 1957.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,626]

One step closer https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/transportation/article/houston-dallas-bullet-train-federal-approval-texas-15582761.php

Quote

Federal officials have issued final approvals to backers of a Houston-to-Dallas high-speed rail line, further clearing the way for construction of the proposed line, in a move almost certain to face challenges from opponents.

Texas Central Railroad, the company planning to operate trains from Houston to Dallas with a stop near College Station, said early Monday that the Federal Railroad Administration had issued both the Record of Decision that ends the environmental analysis and the Rule of Particular Applicability that governs the safety standards the Japanese-developed trains must use.

...

With the two approvals in hand, Texas Central can continue final designs and construction of the project. To start building the line, the company needs the go-ahead from the Surface Transportation Board, though the FRA approvals make most of that process perfunctory.

 

[Pasken 1,310]

7 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

One step closer https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/transportation/article/houston-dallas-bullet-train-federal-approval-texas-15582761.php

 

It won't take much to extend the Cap Metro Blue Line from the airport to this line.

[Pasken 1,310]

22 minutes ago, Pasken said:

It won't take much to extend the Cap Metro Blue Line from the airport to this line.

Woops. Sorry I was thinking of a different High Speed rail line. This is clearly not the case. Ignore the post. 

[RPM 26,472]

38 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Texas Central Railroad, the company planning to operate trains from Houston to Dallas with a stop near College Station

The aggy stop is just so aggy. All it's going to do is slow things down.