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Pete Rose

Whitman

By Whitman
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Whitman

Whitman 694

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There is a thread in gambling that came up and it reminded me how messed up it is that Rose isn't in the HOF.  One of the greatest ever.  I understand and have empathy for the decision, but just can't wrap my mind around him being so damn hardheaded that he won't just come out and say yes I did it and it was wrong.  I don't think his gambling affected any games he was managing. 

If he did this, I would bet that within a year or two, the ban would be lifted and he would be in the HOF.  For those of us old enough to have seen him play, he was that good.  I also think that is different than the steroid players,  because what they did affected the games they were in.  The sad cases with them are people like Bonds or Clemens who would be in without the PEDS.   

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

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correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't he accept the ban that was given to him during the investigation of his gambling?  he knew the ban included the hof.

oh, and i call bullshit on it not affecting games he was managing.  in fact, i would say it 100% affected every game he was involved in.  he claims he never "bet against his own team."  that may be, but on days he didn't bet at all, that's basically the same thing.  and on days he bet heavy on the reds, who knows how he used his players/bullpen/etc.  one of the reasons you cannot have gamblers involved in sports is because if someone gets themselves in a bad situation with bad people, the game can be compromised.  i don't think anyone can say with any certainty that this didn't happen with rose.

i'm happy he's not in.

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Dr. Teeth

Dr. Teeth 5843

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If they didn’t require speeches, several people would have more consideration. MLB HOF has smaller classes and more attention to the speeches. I think the voters think about that more than they should. Guys like Rose need to be inducted separately without fanfare as players and without making it out like they are okay with their crimes or personality issues. 

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Ebeye

Ebeye 116

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Posted (edited)

I think there is a chance he gets in after he dies.  Although I'm not heartbroken that he isn't in there now.  When it comes to sports, there really is one major rule, don't get caught gambling.  Everything else is variable and depends on the whims of the voters, and we already know that quite a few of the MLB voters are idiots.

Edited by Ebeye
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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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He did affect the outcome of games.  They pretty much know he gambled on his team to lose.  Even if he didn't, and just bet on his team to win, the effected the season. If he was gambling for his team to win he'd make decisons he might not make if money wasn't on the line. Who to leave in, who to take out who to save for a later game.

 

He was a hero of mine growing up, now he's just a degenerate gambler and a liar.  No hall for you......

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ausjala

ausjala 101

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Posted

Pete was his era's, Ty Cobb, and an absolute asshole, but one that gave it all on the field. He was never the best talent, just the one who got the most out of what he had and played the hardest. He deserves to be in the HOF for his play, but his gambling has kept him out. And that is not going to change. He was caught dead to rights, and Giamatti force fed him the truth. Pete now refuses to let go, much like the petulant man-child he has always been. But that is also how he played--he never quit. It's a sad ending to a good story, but those things happen. As to gambling and sports, it has always been there, and it always will. My only real problem with any of this, is the "integrity" of the game crap that always seems to flow out of the mouths of those in charge. Integrity my ass. Very little integrity, or principle, involved in the world of sports. It's all about the money. And that is simply life. There are people of integrity in all walks of life, and there are assholes. The two seldom agree on anything, nor care to.

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19189

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7 hours ago, Ebeye said:

I think there is a chance he gets in after he dies.  Although I'm not heartbroken that he isn't in there now.  When it comes to sports, there really is one major rule, don't get caught gambling.  Everything else is variable and depends on the whims of the voters, and we already know that quite a few of the MLB voters are idiots.

Best part of this scenario is that the piece of shit will be dead.

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Gut Wagon

Gut Wagon 8065

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Posted (edited)

I might be the only person to say this, but I hated watching him play. In part, that’s because as a hardcore Astros fan since before the Big Red Machine, I hated Cincy in general. But Rose came across as a special sort of douche. He seemed to think you got style points for making a routine play look way harder than it was. He’d dive for fly balls that didn’t require it, then flop around like a clubbed chicken to complete the show. And he’d mastered the whole hair thing long before Harper was even born.

I’m sure not saying Rose wasn’t a highly accomplished player. Anyone can see he was. Ridiculous hit numbers. But the gambling revelation didn’t even make me blink. He’d seemed like a tool all along. 

Edited by Gut Wagon
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HouTex

HouTex 1866

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Posted
I might be the only person to say this, but I hated watching him play. In part, that’s because as a hardcore Astros fan since before the Big Red Machine, I hated Cincy in general. But Rose came across as a special sort of douche. He seemed to think you got style points for making a routine play look way harder than it was. He’d dive for fly balls that didn’t require it, then flop around like a clubbed chicken to complete the show. And he’d mastered the whole hair thing long before Harper was even born.
I’m sure not saying Rose wasn’t a highly accomplished player. Anyone can see he was. Ridiculous hit numbers. But the gambling revelation didn’t even make me blink. He’d seemed like a tool all along. 

This. I never liked to watch him play for those reasons.
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mycox

mycox 582

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Gut Wagon said:

I might be the only person to say this, but I hated watching him play. In part, that’s because as a hardcore Astros fan since before the Big Red Machine, I hated Cincy in general. But Rose came across as a special sort of douche. He seemed to think you got style points for making a routine play look way harder than it was. He’d dive for fly balls that didn’t require it, then flop around like a clubbed chicken to complete the show. And he’d mastered the whole hair thing long before Harper was even born.

I’m sure not saying Rose wasn’t a highly accomplished player. Anyone can see he was. Ridiculous hit numbers. But the gambling revelation didn’t even make me blink. He’d seemed like a tool all along. 

Pete Rose and Lenny Dykstra are my two most dislked MLB players ever. Well...them and the '86 Mets cocaine fuled team.

Edited by mycox
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dbecks

dbecks 442

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Posted 
MAJOR LEAGUE RULES
Rule 21
MISCONDUCT
(d) BETTING ON BALL GAMES.  Any player, umpire, or club official or 
employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in
connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared
ineligible for one year.

   Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall
bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which
the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

 

I'm no lawyer, but it's pretty damn clear to me.

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Gut Wagon

Gut Wagon 8065

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Posted
1 minute ago, Saint Tacky said:

I threw up on Pete Rose once.  If that's my "15-minutes," I can live with it.

A friend urinated on Dan Rather once. She was an infant at the time, though, so I don't think she has any particular reason to feel any pride in the achievement. Not sure it it was a plus or minus moment for Dan. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45889

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4 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

If Shaggy weren't dead, I'd go dig out the posts by multiple people claiming that Rose was the greatest hitter ever because he had the most hits.

"Most hits" is an impressive stat, but yes, it doesn't necessarily correlate to "greatest hitter ever".  I sure hope I never made that argument.  I liked watching those 70's Reds teams play for sure, given the fact that the Cardinals posed no threat whatsoever.

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Gut Wagon

Gut Wagon 8065

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13 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

If Shaggy weren't dead, I'd go dig out the posts by multiple people claiming that Rose was the greatest hitter ever because he had the most hits.

Made by the same folks who also think Emmitt Smith is the de facto best RB of all time?

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54208

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Bench is arguably the best catcher in the history of MLB. 

Morgan is close to the top of best 2Bmen in the history of MLB.

George Foster won an MVP and had three top-3 MVP finishes for the Big Red Machine.  He production fell off so much once he hit his early 30's that I'm fine with anyone who thinks Rose was better than him.  In fact, I'd agree.

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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9927

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Posted (edited)

Are we really going to re-litigate this?  You know how I know there are people who haven't read the Dowd report on this thread?  Because you are saying he should be in.  Only people from Cincinnati and casual fans who don't know anything about Pete Rose beyond the hit record and "Charlie Hustle" think he should be in.

He should not.  He was guilty as fuck of violating Baseball's only cardinal rule: No gambling on baseball.  He agreed to a lifetime ban from baseball, including the HOF, and it was made explicitely clear to him at the time what he was signing.  He knew he was banned for life, agreed to it, then immediately started campaigning to get out of the ban. The HOF isn't run by MLB, and has made it clear, on mulitple occasions, that they wouldn't let him in, even if the writer's voted for it to happen.

Finally, he's an absolute garbage human being.

Edited by Bateshorn
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Underdog

Underdog 28581

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No argument from me on Bench being the greatest ever.  If I were starting a Franchise, #5 would be my choice behind the plate.  As a Pirates fan, hated the BRM, but that was a hell of a Team to watch, may be the best I’ve seen in my lifetime. 

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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9927

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Dr. Teeth said:

If they didn’t require speeches, several people would have more consideration. MLB HOF has smaller classes and more attention to the speeches. I think the voters think about that more than they should. Guys like Rose need to be inducted separately without fanfare as players and without making it out like they are okay with their crimes or personality issues. 

This is also completely wrong.  It used to be much harder to get in the Hall. Harmon Killebrew had to wait years to get in, and he finished his career fifth on the HR list.  The lull we are going through right now is because of all the steroid players who aren't being considered, combined with all the quality pitchers whose stats suffered during that same era. The writers used to be much, much pickier. 

Which was the reason for the Veterans Committee, so players could admit the "Hall of the very good" guys after their eligibility had expired.

Edited by Bateshorn
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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

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anyone arguing about rose's ability or stats in terms of getting into the hof might as well be using stats for clemens and bonds.  stats have nothing to do with it, so i don't know why they continue to come up. 

it's almost as if people say, "well, 2500 hits + gambling is not gonna happen, but 4200 hits + gambling, wait a minute, let me think about this."  it's not a sliding scale.  it's binary, and rose is a zero.

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Escapedgoat

Escapedgoat 90

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On 4/4/2018 at 9:38 PM, TexArcher said:

Pete Rose should be in.

But Shoeless Joe has an even better argument to be in.

I have always been intrigued by the Black Sox scandal. This could be a thread of its own and I believe Shoeless Joe Jackson should be in the HOF and probably was innocent. 

Rose, as a player, I really liked and should be in but he has turned out to be quite a piece of work not doing himself any favors. 

 

 

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Guest

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Posted
On 4/4/2018 at 7:55 PM, cabowabo said:

He deserves to be in, but he's such a piece of white trash that I'm not gonna lose any sleep over him not getting in. 

Best hitter in baseball history...not in the HoF.  Lolz.

 

He seems like a Grade AA turd, but hell, being likeable ain’t exactly a prerequisite.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54208

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7 minutes ago, kevwun said:

The most hits does not make him the best hitter ever.  There are lots of guys who were better hitters than Rose.

You'd think you wouldn't need to tell anyone that, but...

By slorch's logic, PETE ROSE IS THE WORST HITTER EVER because he made the most outs.

And his lead in career Outs is much greater than his lead in career Hits.

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4 hours ago, kevwun said:

The most hits does not make him the best hitter ever.  There are lots of guys who were better hitters than Rose.

You're right.

 

He sucked.

 

 

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52485

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

You'd think you wouldn't need to tell anyone that, but...

By slorch's logic, PETE ROSE IS THE WORST HITTER EVER because he made the most outs.

And his lead in career Outs is much greater than his lead in career Hits.

Maybe altuve will play until he is 47 and rose will live  to see his record fall, then die, then get into the hall. 

Edited by Pato del Muerto
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