Pete Rose

[Cap33 384]

On 4/5/2018 at 12:23 PM, Bateshorn said:

 You know how I know there are people who haven't read the Dowd report on this thread?  Because you are saying he should be in.  Only people from Cincinnati and casual fans who don't know anything about Pete Rose beyond the hit record and "Charlie Hustle" think he should be in.

This.

[T-shirt Sip 2107]

On 4/4/2018 at 9:33 PM, Beau Vine said:

Jeez, not again.

No, he wasn't.  He was at best the third-best player on the Big Red Machine teams.

 

 

Being third on that team isn't so bad is it?

 

Johnny Bench - HOF

Joe Morgan - HOF

Pete Rose

Tony Perez - HOF

[Underdog 28737]

Concepcion, Foster, Griffey, Geronimo, Gullet, Nolan, Seaver... grew up watching a lot of their games, going to RF when the Pirates were in town.  That team was just phenomenal, unfortunately ran into a couple of buzzsaw teams like the Orioles and A's during the WS.  The '75 WS is a classic.  

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Maybe altuve will play until he is 47 and rose will live  to see his record fall, then die, then get into the hall. 

we all win in that scenario.

 

Pitchers would lose their minds with some sawed off, ( relatively) geriatric motherfucker slapping doubles out of their bullshit pitches a foot out of the strike zone.

Edited April 7, 2018 by slorch

[Matuka 1310]

csb...

Mid December 2005, Horns were fresh off annihilating Colorado in the Big XII Championship game which I was fortunate enough to attend.  Back in Dallas, I found out Pete was coming to visit the company I worked for during the day and later that night would attend a X-mas party at the owner's house in Preston Hollow.  This was an annual event that the owner threw every year for management.  The owner's wife knew that he was a Pete Rose fan and behind his back arranged for the owner's private jet to pick him up and  bring him to Dallas for the owner's X-mas present.  I think she paid $60K for Pete's services.  Anyhow, Pete show's up at the office and hangs out in the hall by the CEO's office.  He was dressed in an all-white track suit trimmed in cardinal and gold; a USC logo on the breast jacket.  I didn't like him before, and I sure as hell didn't like him at that point.  When I went over by where he standing, he was off in his own little world, talking on his cell phone to someone(IMO) about placing some bets.  I avoided him at the owner's house later that night (he was sequestered in the "library") declining to receive a signed baseball. 

41-38 was a little extra sweet my friends.  BTW, I heard the owner's wife was told in no uncertain terms not to pull such a stunt again.

 

[Underdog 28737]

Was in that memorabilia store in the Caesar's Forum years ago and heard some chatter in the backroom, take a peek and it's Pete on the phone, like you said, probably placing a bet through his bookie.  Never been a fan but a hell of a player.  

[Watashi 7]

I thought Pete had a slight "chance" a few years back to improve his status and public persona.  He could have gone on TV, shed some crocodile tears, said he was sorry, begged for forgiveness, etc.  But then, true to form, he went full Pete, got belligerent and slammed the door shut on any goodwill he might have garnered. 

[Gut Wagon 8083]

On 4/7/2018 at 1:06 PM, Matuka said:

csb...

Mid December 2005, Horns were fresh off annihilating Colorado in the Big XII Championship game which I was fortunate enough to attend.  Back in Dallas, I found out Pete was coming to visit the company I worked for during the day and later that night would attend a X-mas party at the owner's house in Preston Hollow.  This was an annual event that the owner threw every year for management.  The owner's wife knew that he was a Pete Rose fan and behind his back arranged for the owner's private jet to pick him up and  bring him to Dallas for the owner's X-mas present.  I think she paid $60K for Pete's services.  Anyhow, Pete show's up at the office and hangs out in the hall by the CEO's office.  He was dressed in an all-white track suit trimmed in cardinal and gold; a USC logo on the breast jacket.  I didn't like him before, and I sure as hell didn't like him at that point.  When I went over by where he standing, he was off in his own little world, talking on his cell phone to someone(IMO) about placing some bets.  I avoided him at the owner's house later that night (he was sequestered in the "library") declining to receive a signed baseball. 

41-38 was a little extra sweet my friends.  BTW, I heard the owner's wife was told in no uncertain terms not to pull such a stunt again.

 

Pete as an uberdouchy USC fan? I have no trouble believing it. I'm sure he thinks OJ was framed. 

Edited April 10, 2018 by Gut Wagon

[GotThatFire 166]

3 hours ago, Watashi said:

I thought Pete had a slight "chance" a few years back to improve his status and public persona.  He could have gone on TV, shed some crocodile tears, said he was sorry, begged for forgiveness, etc.  But then, true to form, he went full Pete, got belligerent and slammed the door shut on any goodwill he might have garnered. 

What’s his Surly username?

[formermav43 4606]

On 4/4/2018 at 8:38 PM, TexArcher said:

Pete Rose should be in.

But Shoeless Joe has an even better argument to be in.

I don't agree on Rose, but Shoeless Joe absolutely should be. And there's no way Rose should ever get in before him.

[Jameslaw121 4448]

Yeah, hes a complete ass. Whats his username on here?

[Bullneck 19182]

On 4/4/2018 at 10:33 PM, Beau Vine said:

Jeez, not again.

No, he wasn't.  He was at best the third-best player on the Big Red Machine teams.

 

 

Johnny Bench and Cesar Cedeno?

 

Forgot about Joe Morgan (yeah, I know).

Edited April 14, 2018 by Bullneck

[Whitman 694]

A couple of comments posted above/earlier had things that I had never thought of. 

If he did bet against the Reds, then it wouldn't matter to me if he cured cancer, I don't believe he should ever smell the HOF.  Also, and just as important, someone brought up the thought that if there were Reds game that he DIDN'T bet on (while betting on the Reds to win in others), that is the same as betting against them.  On thinking that through, I would tend to agree (he could have rested a reliever until the next game that he had money on), and so any contrition on his part now means nothing.    Some of his stuff is there, and he should be mentioned, but I now think he shouldn't ever be inducted. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Whitman

[shakahorn 1645]

On 4/13/2018 at 8:32 PM, Bullneck said:

Johnny Bench and Cesar Cedeno?

 

Forgot about Joe Morgan (yeah, I know).

Cedeno wasn't part of the Big Red Machine.  Do you mean Geronimo?  I don't think it's fair to say that Rose was "at best" third-best on those teams.  Maybe any given year he might have been third-best, but for the lifespan of the Machine, it comes down to Bench, Morgan, and Rose and any one of the three could easily be called the best.  And I can't stand Pete Rose...well, current day Pete Rose anyway.

[Bullneck 19182]

4 hours ago, shakahorn said:

Cedeno wasn't part of the Big Red Machine.  Do you mean Geronimo?  I don't think it's fair to say that Rose was "at best" third-best on those teams.  Maybe any given year he might have been third-best, but for the lifespan of the Machine, it comes down to Bench, Morgan, and Rose and any one of the three could easily be called the best.  And I can't stand Pete Rose...well, current day Pete Rose anyway.

Yes, Cesar Geronimo.  Blast from the past.

[Beau Vine 54279]

4 hours ago, shakahorn said:

Cedeno wasn't part of the Big Red Machine.  Do you mean Geronimo?  I don't think it's fair to say that Rose was "at best" third-best on those teams.  Maybe any given year he might have been third-best, but for the lifespan of the Machine, it comes down to Bench, Morgan, and Rose and any one of the three could easily be called the best.  And I can't stand Pete Rose...well, current day Pete Rose anyway.

Nope.

Bench is the best catcher in MLB history.  There's really no way to argue that.

You could make a reasonable argument that Morgan is the best 2Bman in MLB history.

You can't make any sort of argument like that for Rose, and his fame is mainly due to the hits record, which is a longevity record, something that he was allowed a personal interest in creating.  If you're going to argue that you can't make that argument because he played so many positions, the reason why he played so many is because he wasn't good at any of them.

 

I'm not a huge fan of historical WAR because of the D component (and especially for catchers), but if you look at WAR from 72-79 (BRM years), you get:

Rose: 40.7

Morgan: 58.0 (!!!!)

Bench: 47.4

[bmbmd 1027]

Pete Rose is the Dave Kingman of slap hitters.

[FUBAR 4]

A buddy of mine and I went to get Pete’s autograph at Caesars Palace. He was not very busy at the time. We got to spend about 30 minutes with him.  Asked him all kinds of questions about baseball back in his day (when we grew up). Best pitcher Bob Gibson, best hitter Ted Williams.  Buff stadium memories.  Best player he ever played against Willie Mays.   Great discussion with him. We could have talked all day.  Didn’t discuss gambling or anything else but 100% baseball 

 

 

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19208]

I agree Rose is no where near the greatest hitter of all time despite the number of hits he got.  But it got me thinking about who would be the GOAT.  Ted Williams probably?

I’m mid 40’s so didn’t see guys from the Williams, DiMaggio, Mays, Mantle era but in my time I would say Tony Gwynn.

[DaysOff 7959]

Pete Rose is the Dave Kingman of slap hitters.

Punch n judy asshole with a bad haircut. May as well played his whole career in the Japanese league.

[Pato del Muerto 52530]

I’d put Cabrera over Gwynn I think. Maybe. 

[Surly Bevo 25075]

Pete not being in the Hall isn't some big loss.  As somebody already said it's not like people are not well aware of who he is, what he accomplished on the field and where he stands in the record book....none of those things go away.  He was a defiant tool who got the punishment he deserved which is for people to all be readily aware of his feats but for him not to get the satisfaction of sharing the same spot with the other greats of the game.  

Purgatory...it's a son of a bitch.